Men on the Internet Would Like to Have Your Babies May 25, 2012 Jill Online dating: The worst, or the absolute worst?
What sucks is these men jade women into not wanting to respond to earnestly interested men. Hmm… is that what sucks about this?
What sucks the most is when guys put up pictures on OK Cupid wearing man-jewelry. Ugh. Who likes that shit?
What sucks is how fucking often the first comment on a post is some asshole named “Sid” or “Dave” or “Josh”. “what do you have up there cutie???” Is the creepiest fucking thing I’ve heard in a while.
What sucks is these men jade women into not wanting to respond to earnestly interested men. Oh my god you’re right. Those poor MEN. /sigh
Well, Sid, that does suck. But that suckage pales in comparasion to the much more egregious suckage of being on the receiving end of this crap. And, to answer the post’s question – its’ the ABSOLUTE WORST. I made the mistake of joining OKCupid. My profile made very clear I wasn’t interested in dating smokers or religious people. I’m a gym rat/health nut and the smell of cigarette smoke makes me want to vom. No religious people because, my shitty past experience taught me that religious dudes want to date atheist women for one of only two reasons: 1) to convert them or 2) to use them are their personal sexbots (cuz, of course, atheist chicks have no morals, ethics or values, amirite?) My profile also made clear I’m very liberal/progressive. Who were the majority of the dudes who wrote to me? 2 pack a day bigot republicans who really, really want me to come to Jesus. And one dude who’s profile name was “Sedition” who asked me why I didn’t just call myself a socialist. So original! I keep hearing that there’s so many successful couples who met online and I can only assume they didn’t meet on a dating website.
Some days I actually feel pretty good about being a single woman who shares her bed with two cats and a dog.
The absolute worst ever. Yes, I am bi. I am bi and thus may be interested in a man or a woman. Also, I am single and looking for someone else who is single. No, I have no problem with polyamorous people per se, but I am not one of them, not even a little bit. So I thought that looking for another single non-polyamorous person would be the best plan. WHY DO SO MANY MEN KEEP MESSAGING ME ABOUT HAVING THREESOMES WITH THEIR GIRLFRIENDS? I am not interested in you, because you are not single. I am not interested in your girlfriend, because she is not single. I am not interested in casual sex, and you can tell because it’s not one of the choices I selected under “what I am looking for.” I am not interested in threesomes, and nothing in my profile suggests that I am. STOP IT.
What sucks the most is when guys put up pictures on OK Cupid wearing man-jewelry. Ugh. Who likes that shit? *grin* Considering I was just coming in here to point out that I’d really fucking like an explanation for the lolcissexism, I feel the need to tell you that I love you for this comment and would like to do your taxes. ♥
Meh. I could have done without the whole OMGEWSTDS thing. From the article: And for most single women, the prospect of getting pregnant tomorrow by a rando you met online is a potential consequence of sex that is slightly worse than chlamydia but marginally better than herpes.
What sucks is these men jade women into not wanting to respond to earnestly interested men. Yes, Sid, do tell us how men being douchey at women on online dating sites gives earnestly interested men sads. That’s clearly what the really important issue here is. WHY DO SO MANY MEN KEEP MESSAGING ME ABOUT HAVING THREESOMES WITH THEIR GIRLFRIENDS? I’m so sorry this happens to you a lot, EG. D: I’m actually in the reverse position, looking for thirds with my wife (we’re a bi couple, but I lean rather heavily towards women), and I wouldn’t dream of e-leering at someone monogamous. What the hell is up with these guys, anyway?
I trust that most women who can figure out the guys from the article are creepy can also tell when a guy is earnest. Not to mention, if we’re interested, we’re interested. If we genuinely want to get to know you, having some weird stranger say he wants to knock us up is not going to change our feelings towards YOU.
If we genuinely want to get to know you, having some weird stranger say he wants to knock us up is not going to change our feelings towards YOU. HOMG THIS. I mean, seriously…the first non-creepy, non-incestuous-molest-y sexual attention I had from a man, I had when I was 22, roughly 14 years after the first sexual attention I got. It didn’t stop me relaxing around the two guys I’ve had sex with, both of whom are good, safe, decent, kind men. Srsly, quit whining about how “some guys” are ruining it for the rest of you. I think there’s 7 billion and change people on the planet right now who are proof that clearly it’s not being ruined for the vast, vast majority of men.
Since this has broadened into general creepy, unacceptable things men say to women they find on dating sites, I’d like to introduce those of you with strong stomachs and FetLife accounts to one of the most disturbing and hilarious groups on the site: https://fetlife.com/groups/14870 There was even a rash of impregnation-related posts a month or two ago!
What sucks is these men jade women into not wanting to respond to earnestly interested men. I would thing the non-sleazebag men would benefit from the comparison. Online dating is something I have literally no first hand experience with as I met my wife in the BWWW (Before World WIde Web) years, though I’m not surprised that it, like every area of the internet has become a stalking ground for people with no scruples.
I keep hearing that there’s so many successful couples who met online and I can only assume they didn’t meet on a dating website. IME, that assumption would be correct. I know four sickeningly happily married couples who met online (I am half of one of them), and a handful of others who are in long-term relationships with people who found each other on the web. NONE of these pairings were from dating sites. We all met in online communities which existed for reasons other than finding someone to romance/marry/bone and never call again/insert permutation of intimate relationship here. In the case of the marrieds: Gamer chat rooms, livejournal, fanfic comms, DeviantArt. I would be interested to hear other people’s experiences.
Counting my blessings that I’m asexual, and have not had to mess with dating sites. Whew, dodged that ridiculously creepy slimeball bullet! As a female online gamer, however, I do get variants of these sorts of messages while I play, though. Some people treat their online gaming experience as if it were E-Harmony, apparently.
I keep hearing that there’s so many successful couples who met online and I can only assume they didn’t meet on a dating website. My best friend and I both met our husbands on dating websites! (Okcupid for me, Plentyoffish for her). Personally I encountered more creeps at work, school and bars than I did online, but everyone has different experiences.
I know a few couples who met online through dating sites. Despite listing myself as bi, poly and kinky, I don’t have really awful messages coming at me on the sites I use (more boring ones) and have been pretty successful at finding new people through them. I think there are lots of factors that go into it. Made my life a lot easier in terms of meeting people in my unfortunately small subcultures of interest without having to spend time in crowded social scenes that I really don’t enjoy. YMMV
What the hell is up with these guys, anyway? Honestly? I think too many straight men read “bi woman” and mentally translate it to “at the same time! threesome!”–maybe it’s a porn thing?–and then decide that’s all they need to know. Because a bi woman wouldn’t be an individual with preferences and interests and aims of her own…she’s just a threesome-slut. (I do not mean to imply that there is anything wrong with threesomes or sluts, or indeed that there is any such thing as a “slut”–that is my derogatory assessment of what’s going on in these jerks’ minds.)
Honestly? I think too many straight men read “bi woman” and mentally translate it to “at the same time! threesome!”–maybe it’s a porn thing?–and then decide that’s all they need to know. Because a bi woman wouldn’t be an individual with preferences and interests and aims of her own…she’s just a threesome-slut. (I do not mean to imply that there is anything wrong with threesomes or sluts, or indeed that there is any such thing as a “slut”–that is my derogatory assessment of what’s going on in these jerks’ minds.) I get these, too. And given the number of men whom I’ve actually gone on a couple dates with who had trouble processing that, no, I wouldn’t have a threesome with them, no, not even if they pressured me about it, I’m guessing your assessment is dead on. Also baffling: the men who message me who would not sleep with someone who has had a same-sex sexual encounter. I mean, in general, 80% of the messages on there end with me asking “what the heck do you see in me? Did you read my profile?” (No, they did not.) But that one in particular seems so odd.
Trans people are automatically eliminated by these creeps. Must be nice. Wrinkles and single blessedness: I love it!
Trans people are automatically eliminated by these creeps. Must be nice. Not so much from the chasers and fetishizers, though.
Not so much from the chasers and fetishizers, though. No shit. And also the random othering. I have a profile up, with my wife, for casual sex with thirds, and we got someone springing “hey want to watch FtM porn together????” as a first message. O_O So, so gross.
Oh god…not to suggest that FtM porn is gross, just saying that pitching that as this Massively Kinky Wrong Thing!!! is horribly othering. Seriously, an edit function. I would kill for it.
For trans women who like women, and trans men who like men, the creepy fetishizing and “othering” is generally non-existent so far as I know — but unfortunately, to a large extent, so is the possibility of finding someone online who’s interested (by which I mean, actually interested, as opposed to “maybe can be talked into considering”). There are plenty of women who are attracted to boys wearing make up, all that Velvet Goldmine sort of thing, but when it comes to actual trans women, not so much!
For trans women who like women, and trans men who like men, the creepy fetishizing and “othering” is generally non-existent so far as I know — but unfortunately, to a large extent, so is the possibility of finding someone online who’s interested (by which I mean, actually interested, as opposed to “maybe can be talked into considering”). There are plenty of women who are attracted to boys wearing make up, all that Velvet Goldmine sort of thing, but when it comes to actual trans women, not so much! I believe it! What’s also frustrating is how many cis people probably are capable of being attracted to trans* people but don’t realize it because of their socialized hang-ups. It was a dating site, actually, (Lesbotronic, I think) asking me if I was okay with dating trans women that first caused me to question my assumptions about who I was attracted to and why. I ultimately realized that the state of someone’s genitals and gender identity do not factor into my own “Hot or not?” process (except indirectly in that I find being trans* or gender variant tends to make people more open and accepting about diverse gender and sexuality in general, which is a total plus in my book), but I had to wade through a metric fuck-tonne of internalized bullshit to get there. I still worry about being fetishizing, because I do have a gender-play kink on top of everything, but I try to advertise as well as I can that I *am* totally on board with dating trans* people without being a creeper or an asshole about it. But if I hadn’t been motivated to examine my own assumptions and socialized expectations (partly because I don’t fit into conventional sexual niches already), then I feel very sorry for any trans* person who might have tried to date me then, because I’m sure I would have been awful. I know that dating became a lot easier for me when I started identifying people right off the bat (through the magic of dating sites) who were on board with all the ways I don’t fit the hegemonic heterocentrist scripts, but finding those people can be so hard. I’m fortunate that the city I live in right now is culturally liberal enough and large enough for it to even be a feasible option. I wonder what happened at that Toronto workshop in March and whether or not any progress was made there. Unfortunately Googling just seems to drag up a lot of transphobic BS.
There are plenty of women who are attracted to boys wearing make up, all that Velvet Goldmine sort of thing, but when it comes to actual trans women, not so much! D: D: D: In terms of the practicalities of physical attraction, there seems to be literally no reason other than transphobia for that to be the case. That’s really sad. And ftr, that message was sent because it indicates on our profile that we’re pansexual. It really pissed both of us off that “open to any gender” clearly meant “into “weird” porn lol” to this guy. Because you know, it can’t mean that we’re actually open to trans people or anything. Then again it also says we’re an f/f couple and we’ve had guys poke and then get pissed off that we’re not straight, so maybe it’s just the Stupid that floats all over the internet.
But boys/men wearing makeup are not necessarily trans girls/women (I say necessarily because there are people who knew they were trans before they transitioned and maybe wore makeup while still performing their assigned gender). So I think it is possible to have a kink or attraction for men who wear makeup (and not all makeup is created equal) without being attracted to women (trans women included).
I know a few couples who met online through dating sites. Despite listing myself as bi, poly and kinky, I don’t have really awful messages coming at me on the sites I use (more boring ones) and have been pretty successful at finding new people through them. I think there are lots of factors that go into it. Made my life a lot easier in terms of meeting people in my unfortunately small subcultures of interest without having to spend time in crowded social scenes that I really don’t enjoy. YMMV Jadey, Obviously, you can’t know this for sure, but do you think that the reason listing yourself as poly and kinky gets you less awful messages because the people like the ones suggesting threesomes to EG are not actually poly and merely just trying to harras he in some way?
I was reading along, thinking OK, these are stupid, but not full-on terror-inducing, and then I got to this: Well aren’t you gorgeous for being 30 and so very tiny…thought you were underage at first. It’s not often I can say that about such a fragile and innocent girl being very attractive. You probably can’t keep up with an experienced, adventurous and naughty bad man unfortunately, can you? 😉
I met my current waaay long distance relationship via online gaming too. And we met a couple of times in person, to go to cons, before we started smooching, even. But I can’t imagine going to a dating website to look for another person. Anytime I’ve gone out deliberately trolling for someone it’s always resulted in abject failure, I can’t imagine it would be any different if I did so in another avenue.
D: D: D: In terms of the practicalities of physical attraction, there seems to be literally no reason other than transphobia for that to be the case. That’s really sad. Trans women =/= cis men in makeup; cis men in makeup =/= trans women. The ‘practicalities’ of physical attraction do not transcend that important distinction, and I can’t actually figure out the logic of this argument at all unless you’re suggesting that physical attraction conflates trans women with cis men in some kind of “My junk can tell what you ‘really’ are” way.
D: D: D: In terms of the practicalities of physical attraction, there seems to be literally no reason other than transphobia for that to be the case. That’s really sad. And ftr, that message was sent because it indicates on our profile that we’re pansexual. It really pissed both of us off that “open to any gender” clearly meant “into “weird” porn lol” to this guy. Because you know, it can’t mean that we’re actually open to trans people or anything. Then again it also says we’re an f/f couple and we’ve had guys poke and then get pissed off that we’re not straight, so maybe it’s just the Stupid that floats all over the internet. Trans women =/= cis men in makeup; cis men in makeup =/= trans women. The ‘practicalities’ of physical attraction do not transcend that important distinction, and I can’t actually figure out the logic of this argument at all unless you’re suggesting that physical attraction conflates trans women with cis men in some kind of “My junk can tell what you ‘really’ are” way. I don’t think macavity is trying to say that, I think she is just hamstrung by the patriarchal nature of the English language. I think, and macavity can correct me if I’m wrong, that the comment meant the opposite of what you’re saying, i.e. if you are attracted to feminine features yet a trans woman turns you off than it sounds a like transphobia. I doubt she was saying any man who wears makeup is a trans woman, though that is based on all the comments I have read from her, and I understand how that specific comment in isolation sounds a bit questionable.
I met my wife through an online dating website, one that sadly doesn’t exist anymore. I found the experience of online dating to be a very positive one. I met a lot of interesting women, had a lot of fun and eventually met the love of my life. And it’s not really that hard to separate yourself out from the d-bag and a-hole men on these sites who harass and annoy women. The key thing is to not be an a-hole or a d-bag. It’s very simple, really.
I met my significant other on OkCupid. It took a few duds (megaduds) before meeting him, but totally worth it! Though I should say that I didn’t get very many creeper messages (whether it was because I listed I was curvy, 5’11, liked feminism, had a pretty awesome faux-hawk in my picture, or was living in Delaware, I don’t know). I’m not sure I would have had the stomach to last as long as I did online if I had been barraged with such messages.
I don’t think macavity is trying to say that, I think she is just hamstrung by the patriarchal nature of the English language. I think, and macavity can correct me if I’m wrong, that the comment meant the opposite of what you’re saying, i.e. if you are attracted to feminine features yet a trans woman turns you off than it sounds a like transphobia. Yes! This is exactly what I was trying to say. With people who are attracted to women, and feminine features, but trans women are a no-no (particularly if you’re bi, as I’ve seen happen) then I find that transphobia is pretty much the only way to explain them. Argh, I did not explain that well.
As in: I’ve seen/read stuff by bi people who claim to lean towards women but go “ugh no trans people” or “oohh being trans is so kinky it’s too far for me”. It’s kind of disgusting how quickly people will jump on this bandwagon while claiming they’re totally not transphobic.
Perhaps the answer with online dating is to personally be the exception against the stereotype applied to you. I for example as a rule do not send messages on OKC, I only respond to messages sent to me since I’m a straight guy (heh, which of course has gotten me zero messages thus far 😉 {the account is roughly 2 years old}) I imagine if a woman where to decide she would not allow people to message her first and decided they would go out and seek people to message, it might bode for a more pleasant experience.
Li, I’m very sorry if I came off transphobic there, that wasn’t my intent. I’m relatively new in learning about trans* matters in social justice and I confess I’m having issues with structuring my language to fit around the requirements.
I imagine if a woman where to decide she would not allow people to message her first and decided they would go out and seek people to message, it might bode for a more pleasant experience. Believe it or not, we’ve thought of this. I’ve sent quite a number of messages, and despite what MRAs would have you think, only a small percentage of the gentlemen write back.
As in: I’ve seen/read stuff by bi people who claim to lean towards women but go “ugh no trans people” or “oohh being trans is so kinky it’s too far for me”. It’s kind of disgusting how quickly people will jump on this bandwagon while claiming they’re totally not transphobic. Yeah, basically. I cannot really wrap my head around “I like both general types of sex characteristics and both general types of gender presentation but only if the streams don’t cross!!” @ Fat Steve Sorry, I stopped following this thread. I don’t really understand your comment – I don’t doubt that many of these harassers aren’t truly poly, kinky, bi or queer in anyway, but the idea is that they think women who describe themselves this way are going to be “up for things” no matter what. So listing myself as poly or kinky could very well attract that kind of BS. I think the reason it doesn’t is basically location, location, location. People around where I live right now, which is urban but in a rural kind of way, tend to be just confused by me and not sure how to react to how I present myself, physically and philosophically; I get more curiosity than even hostility or creepiness at this point.
I think I got what you were trying to say, macavity, and definitely agree that there’s some transphobia in play in that kind of situation. There are situations, though, where even though it may be frustrating, I don’t think that transphobia is involved. As when a straight woman might find it hot in a kind of transgressive way for a man to wear makeup or to cross dress, but part of the attraction is the fact that (so far as she knows) he is still a man despite (or underneath) the makeup and clothing. Whereas she wouldn’t find a trans woman attractive, because a trans woman is not a man. Which, I know, can often create major difficulties in relationships when the man wearing makeup or cross dressing, and the trans woman, happen to be the very same person, earlier and later in the relationship. And the sexual attraction disappears.
Which, I know, can often create major difficulties in relationships when the man wearing makeup or cross dressing, and the trans woman, happen to be the very same person, earlier and later in the relationship. And the sexual attraction disappears. *nodnod* This is most definitely true. As a lesbian-leaning bisexual I don’t really have that issue, but I could see a straight person losing interest…tragically. (The dildobrain I was referring to was bi, however, so I can’t be that charitable there.) Actually…honestly, I feel pansexual, but I lived so long in rural communities, was celibate and functionally asexual due to assorted terrors and traumas, that I don’t personally know out trans people IRL (got friends who are but they’re long-distance, as are most of my immediate social circle), and it feels weirdly appropriative to call myself pansexual. On the other hand bisexual feels terribly….haha… binary, and I was calling myself bisexual while a complete virgin, so IDEK what to do with that. -_-
Believe it or not, we’ve thought of this. I’ve sent quite a number of messages, and despite what MRAs would have you think, only a small percentage of the gentlemen write back. Is it only a small subset of dudes who are getting asked? I don’t know if I have ever herd of a guy being messaged first by a woman on an online dating site. I mean I’m sure it happens but, does it actually happen often enough to produce metrics that say “messaging dudes first only doesn’t work?”
It works about as well as messaging women does for men–which is to say, not very. My point is that to assume that on a feminist board, women making the first move is some kind of startling new concept…whatever, dude.
Long ago, and in another lifetime, back in the mists of the late 1980’s when there were things called magazine personal ads, I placed a personal ad — no photo, just text, which was just as well so far as I was concerned — in New York Magazine. Perhaps times have changed with the advent of the Internet, but it was just as common then for women to write in response to men’s ads as the reverse. I seem to recall receiving 30 or 40 letters from women in response to my ad. (Which was 30 or 40 more than I’d expected, as someone then presenting in life as a 5′ 2″, 115 pound man.) I didn’t write to anyone myself — I couldn’t imagine doing so, as shy as I was. I believe I went out with four or five different women over the next few months, and at one point, astonishingly, was dating several at the same time, complete with near-farcical close encounters, people showing up at my doorstep unexpectedly on a Sunday morning, that sort of thing. (A lifetime of dating experience, almost literally, all crammed into one New York summer! Donna’s own personal Summer of Love, I guess.) It was all far too stressful and exhausting for me, and I always did have a tendency to fall in love at the drop of a hat, and did so promptly enough with one woman that we were married 9 months after we met. A huge mistake for a number of reasons, most of which had little or nothing to do with my transness, but I do have my son. Had I been required to contact people myself, I suspect that I would never have done so.
@EG I didn’t say it was new, I just sugested it would solve the problem (to a degree), which apperantly it does acording to you 😉
Also baffling: the men who message me who would not sleep with someone who has had a same-sex sexual encounter. I mean, in general, 80% of the messages on there end with me asking “what the heck do you see in me? Did you read my profile?” (No, they did not.) But that one in particular seems so odd. I get those too! What is going on there? I’ve even written back and pointed that out, and then the guy in question was all “Did I write that? I don’t remember writing that? Well, anyway, are you interested?”
I get those too! What is going on there? I’ve even written back and pointed that out, and then the guy in question was all “Did I write that? I don’t remember writing that? Well, anyway, are you interested?” I’m completely baffled by this as well. Especially the people who identify as bi in their profiles but then when answering questions (OkCupid) say stuff like they themselves wouldn’t consider having a relationship with a different gendered person who’s had a homosexual sexual experience. It frankly raises my suspicions about why they’re identifying as bi in the first place.