Shameless Self-Promotion Monday March 19, 2012 Jill Sorry this is a day late! A weekend in Boston kept me away from the computer. Promote away.
We posted an interview with Planned Parenthood Arizona’s medical director, Dr. DeShawn Taylor, who tells us her story and talks about the future of abortion care. If you ever wanted to thank an abortion provider in the comments section of a blog, now’s your chance! Additionally, we posted about National Native American HIV/AIDS Awareness Day (which is tomorrow), highlighting some of the events that will be taking place statewide. Not to mention the sad fact that we posted about a lot of stupid bills under consideration at the state level. Luckily, Arizona is full of people stepping up to fight against this horrible proposed legislation.
I wrote a series on the way women are taught to attack one another by analyzing the messages in popular songs about love triangles: Introduction, Part 1: Direct Competition, Part 2: Offensive Threats, Part 3: Defensive Attacks. I also wrote a post about how I’ve found ways to stay motivated to work out that don’t have to do with body image. And I am less than impressed with PETA’s claims that their anti-woman promotions aren’t negatively impacting feminism.
I wrote a post about why self-proclaimed conservatives are essentially bad people who don’t want to “preserve” anything but their ability to rejoice in the suffering of others, and (as just one example.) about the newest and most horrid anti-abortion bill in Arizona. Show Yourselves Out.
I attempt to explain apparent overreactions on the part of women who feel that their safety is being threatened. TW for threatening situations and sexual harassment.
On the Jewish Currents blog this week, I wrote about the statement signed by a number of high-profile Palestinian activists and intellectuals disavowing Gilad Atzmon, the Israeli-born Jazz musician who’s made a lot of anti-semitic statements. What do you do when someone in your activist community is a total bigot asshole? Gilad Atzmon and the Problem of Jerks in your Movement
Are you paralyzing or empowering others? 6 tips for what to share & how: http://humaneconnectionblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/are-you-paralyzing-or-empowering-others.html The power of “Kony 2012” & what it means for our future: http://humaneconnectionblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/power-of-kony-2012-what-it-means-for.html
I vent on people who dump on the invented bugbear of bad, mean feminists: http://clarissasblog.com/2012/03/18/how-to-defeat-your-own-cause/ Are sex strikes a legitimate way of conducting political activism? http://clarissasblog.com/2012/03/16/sex-strike/ The Soviet Republic of Arizona: http://clarissasblog.com/2012/03/15/the-soviet-republic-of-arizona/ And if you are planning to go on the academic job market, here are detailed suggestions on how to write a cover letter: http://clarissasblog.com/2012/03/11/academic-job-search-how-to-write-a-cover-letter/
This week I wrote about: 1) The Don’t Mess With Texas Women rally in our last effort to stop Gov. Perry’s decision to cut healthcare from 130,000 poor women. 2) Twitter’s misogyny. And… 3) Community’s comeback.
Failing a test is difficult enough, but should the teacher tell students to give up right away? http://onefemalegaze.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/mathochism-spectacular-failures/ How does one establish rapport with an instructor who doesn’t think one is capable? http://onefemalegaze.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/mathochism-a-bit-of-clarity/ When confidence wanes, it’s time to look backward: http://onefemalegaze.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/mathochism-looking-back-to-go-forward/
This week I wrote about the intersection of heteroromantic asexuality and straightness, and about a food pantry that lost federal support for asking clients if they wanted to pray.
This week I wrote about the lack of well-known female music writers, and a short post about being a good ally.
It’s been a while since I posted, so a backlog: What to do if You’re Having Trouble Rewarding Yourself http://lifelongactivist.com/2012/03/11/what-to-do-if-youre-having-trouble-rewarding-yourself/ A friend/activist recently wrote to me about the difficulties she has building “rewards” (fun, pleasure, validation, gratification, treats, etc.) into her life. She mentioned that a day trip that was supposed to be a big reward for her last month fizzled, and that made her very demoralized. This is a crucial topic because without rewards you’ll probably get miserable, run down, deprived, and then burn out. Rewards refuel you and really are one of the key engines of productivity and nonperfectionism…” And I don’t think I’ve posted about the big redesign for the Lifelong Activist website: http://www.lifelongactivist.com My whole book The Lifelong Activist is up there and now it’s easier to navigate! From hillaryrettig.com: Why You Should Indie-Publish http://www.hillaryrettig.com/2012/03/08/why-you-yes-you-should-indie-publish/ Indie publishing = writer’s liberation. I wrote a two-parter on why you should do it, and some important things to keep in mind when you do. (Also people who own businesses or have a significant hobby or skill should indie publish just for the heck of it and to make a few extra bucks.) Help Your Team Overcome Procrastination And Finish Projects http://www.hillaryrettig.com/2012/03/08/help-your-team-overcome-procrastination-and-finish-projects/ Pretty proud of this one, which tells you how to help others overcome blocks and get more productive. Excerpt: “The above analysis makes it clear why the two most common tactics for dealing with under-productivity – punishment and nagging – are inadequate. Punishment includes actual or threatened punitive acts, and emotional punishment such as harshness or shaming. In any form, it increases one’s fear around one’s work, and therefore one’s disempowerment. It also increases one’s need to escape from one’s fears via procrastination. Other problems with punishment include: (1) we become habituated to it, so it eventually loses its power; (2) it at best achieves short-term compliance, and not the growth and capacity building that enables us to do our best; and (3) it’s fundamentally inhumane. Nagging is what well-meaning bosses and colleagues often do instead of punishment. However, constantly asking someone, “How’s the work going?” is not only not helpful, it’s likely to backfire by adding to your colleague’s sense of fear around his or her project.”
Revived a brief older post about the conversation we aren’t having when we talked about the problem of “obesity” as opposed to “health” or “poverty”.
I created a little spec commercial for a made-up condom product, the “Trojan Fun Pack.” http://youtu.be/TtU82O81B-c
The Martial Rating Scale. According to a marital rating scale from 1939, I have quite a few demerits and only a handful of merits. It appears I should stop wearing red nail polish and putting my cold feet on my husband’s at night. Why Are Most Bloggers Women? Women make up the majority of bloggers. Is it furthering women’s voices in alternative media or is it systematically segregating these voices in less mainstream outlets? A Glimpse into the Love Letters I Wrote My Future Husband. A peak into the love letters I wrote to my now husband even before I knew him. When Marriage Isn’t a Choice. Some thoughts and statistics on National Geographic’s report on child marriage. Our First Dance. A reflection in half-poetry/half-prose of our first dance.
Dipping into a Very Gender-Conscious 2012 in Australian Popular Culture Reworking classic fairytales and the many ways of enacting the feminine in feminist fiction The direction of desire: looking at how patriarchy messes with the sexualities of heterosexual men. Wishing for normal lives or satisfying ones: looking at what exactly is going wrong when parents say “I would totally love a disabled or gay kid but mine are going to be normal”.
How to deal with Internet trolls, as taught to me via the ’90s boy band wonder, the Backstreet Boys. (Which meant hiding my computer screen while Googling images for the Backstreet Boys at work.) Fun fact: This blog post attracted a troll in the comments. Must have been an N’Sync fan!
Guest Post: The Hate That Lurks. We are not living in a post-racial or post-feminist world. When Will They Call it a Drinking Problem? Young people who are drinking don’t realize that it’s not normal to always puke after drinking. Young people don’t realize that it’s not normal to drink until you pass out. Young people don’t realize that binge drinking is considered, in the United States, as having more than 4 (female) or 5 drinks (male) in one sitting. Violence and Culture in Video Games. American entertainment has a love affair with violence. Our biggest movies typically have violence or action, and almost all of our games are centered around violence or violent scenarios. The sex that we get in games are steeped in violence. Any romance we do get is typically clunky, half-hearted, and surrounded by violence. Blog Roundup. Non-Violent Video Games This is the pressure that men are under to constantly assert their masculinity. A complete absence of emotion, always stern, always in control, always in power, always knowing what to do. Any deviance from this is weakness. That’s why there’s so many people online stating that they, say, claim to find video games easy even on the ultra hard mode.
I’m on State of Formation, writing about the slut shaming of Sandra Fluke and its religious connections.
The original virgin/whore dichotomy; how Renaissance artists compared the Virgin Mary and Eve as a model and a warning for Renaissance women. A quick post on feminine vanity in Hieronymus Bosch’s Garden of Earthly Delights.
Some of the posts at Doctor Her this week: Lucy Saxon: But He Was So Good to My Father The Seven Plots and Doctor Who, Part 1: Overcoming the Monster Domesticating the Doctor II: The Missus, the Ex and the Mothers-in-Law
I review Clarisse Thorn’s new PUA ebook. http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/clarisse-thorns-new-pua-ebook/ Do you know the seven worst mistakes women are making about men? In which a dude calls feminists manhaters after comparing men to flush toilets. http://noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet/
I wrote about history, culture and change this week, especially about narratives of cultural complexity and the role that invasion plays in ideologies of culture change. The post mainly focuses on Australian history examples, but my main argument is that ideas of cultural complexity are usef to justify invasion (etc), so I guess it’s applicable to all colonised countries.
I’m just really happy to say that my trans memoir is finally on the market! You can find it here: http://www.amazon.com/Bumbling-Into-Body-Hair-Transsexuals/dp/1935961330/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332189109&sr=1-1
One way to stop sexism–anywhere, really, but within the skeptical community specifically–is to stop excusing ignorance. And posting strategy #41 means I officially have three full pages of suggestions for increasing the number of women in skepticism! I’m shooting for five. Someday. #41 Do not excuse ignorance.
Two rather different things this week. First, a look at gender representation in ‘Dirk Gently’ and in ‘Sherlock’ by comparison. Next, my thoughts on the problems of claiming a marginalised identity.
Are you buying fancy cigars for Rush? Well, stop it! Just say no to his sponsors and make room for real free speech… Rush to the Lifeboats Giant wind turbines in the ‘hood appeared overnight… They’re so Beautiful
Thank you for this opportunity to share! I hope you all have a great week. I’ve come across a disturbing conference event being sponsored by Planned Parenthood. The event title is “Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women”. In it, queer trans women will discuss “breaking down” and “overcoming” barriers to sexual access to cis women. The event has been described this way: The cotton ceiling is a theory proposed by trans porn star and activist Drew DeVeaux to explain the experiences queer trans women have with simultaneous social inclusion and sexual exclusion within the broader queer women’s communities. Basically, it means that cis queer women will be friends with us and talk day and night about trans rights and ending transmisogyny, but will still not consider us viable sexual partners. The term cotton ceiling is a reference to the “glass ceiling” that second wave feminist identified in the workforce, wherein women could only advance so high in the workforce but could not break through into positions of power and authority. The cotton represents underwear, signifying sex. Frankly, I find this event title to be creepy, and the gathering of MAAB folks discussing how to best access women to be rape-culture-y. If you oppose this event, you may sign this petition here. Thank you.
My new post is called “Why women in science don’t want to work at universities.” It’s at http://curt-rice.com — enjoy!
I also wrote about street harassment and being dismissed in Overreacting [content note: harassment] And in Fatness & Fitness, I am pleasantly surprised by a quote at the end of a health study. [Discusses weight loss.] On endometriosis and diagnostic delay. Finally, my latest minimalist running post: BackTrekking.
I wrote a post about my experiences in Syria and my thoughts about what is happening there now (T.W for discussions of government brutality)
You didn’t answer my question. It’s open to trans women. You seem to be differentiating between trans women and women in general.
I wrote something entitled ‘Doesn’t Mean I Don’t Love My Kids’ It’s about my experience of motherhood. It was really well received by lots of women in the blogging community, not all of whom self-identify as feminists. It felt really good to have so many people relate to what I’d written. http://www.gappytales.com/2012/03/doesnt-mean-i-dont-love-my-kids.html
This week I wrote about Bruce Schneier’s new book Liars and Outliers, which you might not think would be relevant to theology. And I engaged with a couple other posts on the importance of love for ecumenical (and interfaith) dialogue. Also, yesterday was Laetare Sunday!
Becca, I’m confused. Women who aren’t MAAB are not invited to the event, so that’s why I’m making a distinction.
I’ve been working on a Mass Effect 3 blogthru. The first three parts are up so far, with more to come this week. Here’s the first post in the series.
Except trans women are invited. (As are CAMAB genderqueer people.) So I’m sort of wondering how women can be insidiously trying to infiltrate…women?
My latest post is Inspiring Words Of Encouragement on a letter that was sent to me by a former Miss USA contestant. Bad Humor in reference to the tweets young women posted about Chris Brown’s behavior and violence against Rihanna. Gaining Perspective was written about a serious work related accident my boyfriend and I have recently been going through.
Ha ha! I finally have something to post here, because I have FINALLY (after a year of procrastinating) started a blog! A discussion of the Hugo nominations for science fiction and fantasy BEFORE they come out, where I worry that the best novel list may be made up entirely of white men. And yes, in fact, I have never seen an Indiana Jones movie. Or Survivor. Or read Heinlien.
Ack! I didn’t manage to leave my second link! Sorry guys… my technological ability is pretty low. But yes: I have never seen Indiana Jones, or Survivor… and I thought Spiderman was a (male) supermodel for a while.
The comments on the petition Smash linked to are incredibly transphobic. I also think that this conference is probably unfortunately named, but that the intent is very different from how the petitioners are reading it.
Today at A Bookish Beemer: Street Harassment: my reaction was not an overreaction Shit TAB say: part two A Brilliant Observation on Anti-Choicers
Trans women are invited, and cis women are dis-invited (they are explicitly left out). I like what lady face has to say about this: http://1ladyface.blogspot.com/2012/03/i-dont-hate-you-and-neither-does-my.html?zx=93e75ded6c645016 how could it possibly be surprising that your “cotton ceiling” hit a nerve? Rapey? YES! Of course this idea is rapey. That doesn’t mean I think you want to rape women, it means I think you are using the logic of rape culture (ie entitlement to cispussy) to present a flawed argument for transwomen inclusion. Of course transwomen should be included in the queer community. But access to cis-sex doesn’t equal inclusion and you don’t have a RIGHT to sleep with queer ciswomen any more than transmen or butch women do. All queer women are different (like snowflakes and butt holes). Some of us are attracted to transfolks and some aren’t. And some of us might not want to fuck anyone at all thanks.
Smash – I feel like you’ve opened a porthold into the murky, hateful world of transphobic feminism, a world I try to avoid. That oh-so-wonderful post (where she doesn’t even realise it’s trans women, not transwomen) you’ve linked to links to and praises a notoriously transphobic blog. No thanks.
Becca, that’s an ad hominem attack. You can criticize my character and interests, but that doesn’t address the rape culture involved in this conference. In any case, please don’t sign the petition if you’re not interested. Thanks, and have a great day all.
At Muslimah Media Watch last week, we talked about the Pakistani TV drama Humsafar, the attention given to Western women who become Muslim, and the impact of poverty on early marriage in Tajikistan.
No, it’s not an ad hominem attack to point out a consistent trend in your beliefs and actions. You show up with a transphobic petition, alleging trans women aren’t women, then back yourself up with a link featuring more links to transphobia.
Forty six (46) screenshots of more than 50 conservative tweeters slandering Sandra Fluke on every hour over a four day period last week: http://networkedblogs.com/vfFwV This is the true face of the “pro-life” movement.
At Pissed Off Woman, I talk about how those in power present us with shitty choices and then castigate us for choosing the “wrong” one, in my book review of “The Myth of Choice”.
Frankly, I find this event title to be creepy, and the gathering of MAAB folks discussing how to best access women to be rape-culture-y. If you oppose this event, you may sign this petition here. Thank you. Bullshit. It’s got nothing to do with “access[ing] women,” to use your repulsive phrase, or coercing women into having sex. It has to do with DISCUSSING “the experiences queer trans women have with simultaneous social inclusion and sexual exclusion within the broader queer women’s communities.” And it’s only “creepy” to people who refuse to accept that trans women are women, and continue to vilify them as men, rapists, etc., etc. To quote the second signer of the petition: Males who are masquerading as women are never going to break down this lesbian’s cotton ceiling!!! Encouraging males to rape lesbians is NOT something that Planned Parenthood should be promoting!. Most of the other signatures are accompanied by similarly mendacious garbage. So, f**k you, you lying bigot.
And if Smash is as incapable as she seems to be of comprehending that referring to “MAAB folks” purportedly discussing “how to best access women” rhetorically excludes trans women from the category of “women,” then it’s clearly a waste of time trying to have a discussion with her. I guess I should be happy that this is the first time in at least a few months that I’ve noticed anyone using this thread to “promote” transphobia.
I haven’t posted here in a while, but I want to support everyone who has called out Smash for linking that incredibly transphobic petition. As a queer woman, I see absolutely nothing wrong with trans women pointing out transphobia and exclusion in queer women’s communities. In fact, I applaud that people are talking about this. It is a major problem that needs to be discussed just like biphobia in lesbian/gay circles gets discussed. Being queer does not make you immune to being a bigot to other queer and/or trans people!
I examined the latest report of the Dutch Rapporteur on Trafficking in Human Beings to consider the question: Sex trafficking in the Netherlands: should we believe the hype?
btw I looked at Smash’s blog, and at least one recent thread is incredibly hateful and basically denies that trans people exist. She is not arguing in good faith if she claims that she is not a transphobic bigot.
I’m so glad some other people have commented on that link – I was going to but by the time I got to the bottom all you good folk had beaten me to it! Restored my faith a little, thanks 🙂
I whined and moaned about sexist bullshit being shared on Facebook. http://seaweedmonster.tumblr.com/post/19310021887/i-am-so-sick-of-this-shit-this-this-is-just-not
Amazing — I’m STILL a day late posting here!!! But this week I’ve been writing a series on sustainable tourism — here’s a link to the post on economic sustainability. I would LOVE comments and thought s on this issue! http://www.theepicadventurer.com/2012/03/what-sustainable-tourism-really-means_19.html
btw I looked at Smash’s blog, and at least one recent thread is incredibly hateful and basically denies that trans people exist. She is not arguing in good faith if she claims that she is not a transphobic bigot. Not surprisingly, her blog links to two of the most notorious trans-hating blogs on the Internet — RadFem Hub and Gender Trender. Of course, the current style is for bigots like Smash to deny that there’s anything transphobic about them (in the same way that so many racists vigorously deny their racism), and then to continue spouting exactly the same kind of transphobia as before. Thanks, GinnyC, for pointing out that the subject of this workshop (even conceding that the title is a misplaced, silly attempt to be cute and clever), is no more “creepy” or “rapey” or non-consensual than the increasingly-common discussions of the biphobia exhibited by people who identify as lesbian or gay. The reasons for the widespread general rejection of trans women (regardless of their individual characteristics) as potential partners by (among many others) queer women — by contrast to the widespread acceptance of trans men — may be very different than they are for bisexual people, but the discussion of the subject is no less legitimate. And even though none of this is about me personally, I also want to thank people here in general for their willingness to call out transphobia when they see it, whether or not they’re trans-identified themselves, rather than always leaving it up to trans people to speak out. Allies are always important, but I think that’s especially true for marginalized groups that are so (comparatively) small in number, let alone in other kinds of power. Plus, I think it’s sometimes easier to say something, especially when the occasion to do so comes up over and over again, when you aren’t as personally affected every time you see something like this, and don’t feel so much like someone just hit you in the face. It’s one thing when you expect to see awful rhetoric (like when I went to dig up those lovely quotations by Germaine Greer recently, in order to point out that “young feminists” have very good reasons not to admire her); it’s entirely another when you really weren’t expecting it, like in this thread.
Dang, I’m also late. Well, I picked up review-blogging again and reviewed The Damned United by David Peace and Blood on the Forge by William Attaway, as well, as, today, RASL: Romance at the Speed of Life by Jeff Smith. >.< My page takes awhile to load and I have NO idea why that is.
Name calling is not effective argumentation. Do you agree with this statement? We believe that no means no, that a woman’s right to say “no” to sex at any time is sacrosanct and that no explanations should ever be requested because none is ever necessary. If so, you agree with the principles the petition is promoting. That’s why I brought it here. I am not transphobic, and I am not a bigot. I am not responsible for those who have commented on the petition. I am a feminist who does not believe in gender. I don’t want to discuss that here, however. All humans includbing both trans and cis should have a right to say no to sex, and that is a feminist perspective. Take care all.
I am not transphobic, and I am not a bigot. Of course you’re not. That’s why you have RadFem Hub and Gender Trender on your blogroll. That’s why you’re a fan of Sheila Jeffreys. That’s why you think the subject of that workshop is inconsistent with or disputes a woman’s right to say no to sex for any reason — when it clearly and obviously isn’t. That’s why you rhetorically exclude trans women from the category of “women.” That’s why in discussing “men in women’s spaces,” you parse an episode of “Third Rock from the Sun,” and say: Not only does Dick show up wearing women’s clothes, but he begins to take over the meeting and make it all about his needs, discussing how much his feelings are hurt for not having been invited in the first place. “Why do women have to close themselves off,” he protests. He can’t understand that we might need some space to ourselves, or want to spend our energy on something other than men. Then he proceeds to grab Mary and forcefully kiss her. Boundaries? Violated! Clearly, men are upset that women might want our own spaces. They don’t like it, and they want to be invited. If they can’t bully or manipulate their way in, they’ll try the stealth method.
And that’s why you say: Second wavers recognize that there are intersecting oppressive forces, but don’t want to lose sight of the oppression of women. They may see 3rd wave feminists use intersectionality as a strategy for turning female energy away from female causes. These radfem thinkers are particularly concerned about transgender and transexual folk who are seen by the radfems as having hijacked feminism and our efforts toward women’s liberation and moved them into a more male centered direction. Trans women are also seen as male invaders to female spaces by these rad fems, and the fun fems think this view is transphobic. An interesting critique of this privilege checking procedure is that any individual making a logical argument can be proven wrong by having not properly checked her privilege. So, by making trans critical arguments that do not align with the 3rd wave party line, an individual will be shut down as transphobic, and her arguments will not be listened to. This silencing tactic is particularly worrying to me as a person interested in the *truth*– rather than what is least offensive. But you take no position between them, I suppose. You just care about “truth.” No. At least own up to the vileness of the rhetoric you support. Have the courage to accept the implications of the theories you so eagerly adopt.
@Smash Even if this conference was actually about promoting coercive, non-consensual sex (and it’s not), the comments that refuse to recognize trans women as *women* are inexcusable.
Name calling is not effective argumentation. Since you’re promoting my work, you might check out what I say about ad hominem attacks. I am not on trial here. All of what you are saying is irrelevant. Do you have critiques of the petition itself? If so, please offer them. To be clear, the Dick episode post was not about trans women in women’s spaces. It was about men in women’s spaces. Dick is not a woman; he is a man.
Finally, it’s highly ironic that you claim you don’t like “name calling” — meaning, in reality, that you don’t like it when people recognize your comments as bigoted — when the entire corpus of radical feminist writing about trans women consists of virtually nothing but the cruelest and most despicable name calling imaginable, based on nothing but ludicrous and willful misrepresentations of trans women’s actual lives and actual existence. As is proven on a small scale by your willful misrepresentation of what that workshop is about. And you may not believe in gender (presumably, you mean by your sloppy rhetoric that you don’t believe in the existence of gender identity, not that you don’t believe in gender presentation), but it exists whether you like it or not; trans women exist and are real and are women, whether your theories provide for them or not. And have always existed. People like you always get backwards the primacy of facts vs. theory: instead of rejecting a theory when it doesn’t fit the facts, you do the reverse. It’s no different than what any die-hard Marxist-Leninist or fundamentalist Christian does, and it’s equally unsupported by reality. I am simply who I am, a woman living my life as the female person I have *always* been, without doing harm by it to anyone. Let alone being “anti-feminist,” as you seem to think I am simply by virtue of what I “claim” to be. “Stealth” and deception, and reifying the gender binary, and other slanders against trans women, have nothing to do with it. Of course, I shouldn’t have to defend myself to people like you; it would be nice if people like you would just stay in your own dark corners of the Internet. But I’ve had to do it dozens of time in the past just here on feministe, and I’m sure will have to do it again many more times in the future, unless feministe adopts policies like shakesville’s with respect to transphobia, or unless it gets to be too much. And please don’t think I’m under any illusions that anything I say might ever change the thinking of anyone like you. If I say these things for anyone but myself and my own self-respect, it’s for people with open minds.
I am not on trial here You come here from your transphobic blog linking to other transphobic blogs, and say transphobic things, and post a petition based on obvious misrepresentations of that workshop which you refuse to retract no matter how many times they’re pointed out, and you think you’re immune from criticism? Too damn bad.
Do you have critiques of the petition itself? If so, please offer them. Donna has made the critiques clear. 1) The petition misrepresents the conference. 2) The rhetoric of the petition excludes trans women from the category “women,” both by using “MAAB” instead of “trans women” and by saying that it is a conference promoting trans women’s access to “women,” as though trans women themselves do not fall into the category “women.”
EG, thank you for your response. I don’t agree with your point #1, but I will engage with point #2. The petition does not use the term ‘MAAB’. I used it, because it is used on the conference page itself. Open to all trans women and MAAB genderqueer folks. Quoted from the conference website, at the second event down.
I don’t really have anything to add to this discussion I just want say that Donna you are one bad ass lady. And you(/everyone else here) shouldn’t have to deal with this transphobic bullshit.
I don’t really have anything to add to this discussion I just want say that Donna you are one bad ass lady. And you(/everyone else here) shouldn’t have to deal with this transphobic bullshit. I’d like to second that.
The petition does not use the term ‘MAAB’. I used it, because it is used on the conference page itself. Yes, and you use it in preference to “trans women,” as opposed to the conference, which uses it along with “trans women.” There is also the other exclusionary rhetoric, which has been pointed out several times.
You ask for a critique of the petition, you gets it multiple times — specifically, that flagrantly misrepresents the workshop — and your only response is “I don’t agree with your point #1.” Way to engage with the critique you invited! And in response to the repeated critiques of the transphobic language you employ (referring to MAAB genderqueer people as if the term means the same thing as “trans women,” and referring to “women” as an entirely separate category), you say “hey, that doesn’t come from the petition; it’s mine”! Equally persuasive, I must say. Needless to say, I don’t think anyone should feel obligated to let Smash dictate the terms of the discussion, or limit the permissible scope of the responses to her. She also really needs to learn not to misuse the tired old “that’s an ad hominem attack!” defense. Characterizing someone who says transphobic things and holds transphobic viewpoints as a bigot is not a personal attack on their character; it’s a reasonable — and necessary — judgment based on their own words. For all I know, Smash loves kittens and helps old ladies across the street and never tells a lie. I couldn’t care less. It doesn’t make her any less bigoted. She sounds exactly like all the people who say the most repulsively racist and misogynist things, and then complain bitterly that they’re being personally attacked if anyone calls them a racist or a misogynist. I’m afraid it doesn’t wash. PS: Thanks for the compliments. Even if that’s hardly how I see myself.
See, this is why we can’t have nice things. Sorry for not being around this comment section earlier. I don’t usually monitor SSPS comments because they almost never have issues. But I wish it went without saying that SSPS is to promote work that fits within the Feministe guidelines. It doesn’t have to be 100% perfect and we’re all growing as activists etc etc, but shit that is blatantly transphobic? Nope! Smash, I recognize that you don’t believe this petition and your post to be transphobic, but let me join the chorus of commenters who are saying: It is transphobic. “Transphobic” is not an ad hominem. It’s a descriptor. Kind of like “sexist.” Or “misogynist.” It means something, and it’s the appropriate term to use here. Please do not post further transphobic or otherwise bigoted links in this space.
I think the ‘cotton ceiling’ workshop has potential, but it would be screwed-up and self-defeating to only include trans womyn,* not non-trans womyn who are allies, and perhaps sometimes partners, of trans womyn. I don’t know how much it’s going to cover the structural issues, such as exclusion policies and tacitly exclusionary practices, to trans womyn’s participation in the community, and how much it’s gong to cover the personal issues. Both are political, but each requires different solutions. When it comes to the structural issues, then yes, we as trans womyn ought to try to overcome barriers. When it comes to the personal issues, then no. It’s up to friends and allies to decide where they want to go. Some may feel they’ve internalized something they want to work through; for example they may have internalized the meanings heteronormative society has imposed on our bodies and may want to see if there are other meanings they can recognize instead. But it’s their decision, it has to be their decision. So why aren’t they welcome? *We have also had men’s definitions imposed on us. We have the same need to find our own self-definition, as womyn, in relation to ourselves and to other womyn. So that’s why I use the y.
An interesting critique of this privilege checking procedure is that any individual making a logical argument can be proven wrong by having not properly checked her privilege. So, by making trans critical arguments that do not align with the 3rd wave party line, an individual will be shut down as transphobic, and her arguments will not be listened to. This silencing tactic is particularly worrying to me as a person interested in the *truth*– rather than what is least offensive. I’d like to make some further “ad hominem” attacks on smash. I find it funny that the types of people who like to talk about “silencing” the “truth” based off it being “offensive” are very rarely interested in the truths I recognize, those derived from personal introspection or the application of the scientfic method. And the types who believe that “logical arguments can be proven wrong” are, unsurprisingly, often not very logical. Basically, these types of people are just dogmatic assholes and don’t like it that people tell them they are assholes and also note that their dogma is unsupported by any form of credible evidence. They believe that because they use deductive reasoning to draw conclusions from their original baseless presumptions that others shouldn’t point out their original baseless presumptions are baseless. And also point out that they are mindless followers of authority. As Donna implied, nowadays you normally find this mentality on the Right with people like fundamentalist Christians, Rush Limbaugh, or Bill O’Reilly. But occassionally there will be a Marxist or a Neo-Victorian “radical” feminist that uses a similar M.O. In other news, smash, your petition is bullshit and you are a condescending, self-righteous idiot. Fuck off.
Thanks Donna! Yeah, I took off a week from work to immerse myself in South by Southwest. Between the music, drinking, films, drugs, binge eating, etc. it was hard to find the time to come online. It was a lot of fun though.
but it would be screwed-up and self-defeating to only include trans womyn,* not non-trans womyn who are allies, and perhaps sometimes partners, of trans womyn. Usually I’m not in favor of that kind of exclusionary policy, although it’s certainly common enough at conferences to have separate support groups and discussion groups for, say, trans men as opposed to trans women, or trans people as opposed to partners of trans people, given the different issues they face. After all, it’s only a workshop — not a music festival, to pick an entirely random example. Speaking of which, We have also had men’s definitions imposed on us. We have the same need to find our own self-definition, as womyn, in relation to ourselves and to other womyn. So that’s why I use the y. That spelling is used so much in anti-trans writings, specifically as a way of excluding trans women, that it makes me wince. But if you want to use it, reclaim it, redefine it, go ahead. Still, it’s every bit as ahistorical for a trans woman as a non-trans woman to assert that there’s something male-centric or male-derived about the standard spelling. It just isn’t so; the etymology is clear, as has been pointed out here before.
When it comes to the personal issues, then no. It’s up to friends and allies to decide where they want to go. Some may feel they’ve internalized something they want to work through; for example they may have internalized the meanings heteronormative society has imposed on our bodies and may want to see if there are other meanings they can recognize instead. But it’s their decision, it has to be their decision. I’m not sure if what I’m about to say actually disagrees with what you’re saying Marja, but I’m definitely going to put the emphasis in a different place. So yeah. Consent is sacrosanct, and everyone needs to choose to have sex (or not) with whomever they might prefer to have sex with. No pressure should be placed on anyone as an individual one way or another in that department. But this doesn’t mean that many of people’s sexual preferences aren’t based off of oppressive, inaccurate beliefs. And these oppressive, inaccurate beliefs need to be challenged on the mass level. To use an imperfect analogy, it’s useful to note that many people won’t have sex with fat people because they hold erroneous views about fat people. And it’s also useful to note that many people won’t have sex with trans people because they hold erroneous views about trans people. it’s not just some big coincedence that members of categories that are stigmatized as unnatural, unhealthy, and disgusting by the mainstream institutions of society also sometimes find it hard to meet particular individuals willing to do the nasty with them. So yeah: while it’s important not to pressure any individual on sexual matters, it’s also not merely up to communities on an individual and individual basis to change their own erroneous, shared views. It’s also, unfortunately, the responsibility of oppressed people to collectively produce and disseminate information that counteracts the lies that mainstream institutions are telling about them.
http://bugbrennan.com/2012/03/21/straight-lady-tells-lesbians-that-our-desire-to-avoid-peen-is-transphobic/
Nice to see you again, Ben! I was worried I’d scared you away with my Wicked Witch of the West identification…
I think Smash makes a good deal of sense. Meanwhile, you are attacking her personally. But I have understood for a long time that it is not actually possible to have discussions on issues of trans sexuality/gender that include critiques of policies, politics or even questions of the status quo. To do so is to invite attack. So let me just say I support Smash. Call me a transphobe if you like. I don’t actually care.
Telling lesbians that our lack of desire for male body parts (and yes, penises are male sexual organs, regardless of any gender dysphoria the owner of that organ may have) is transphobic is homophobic and insulting in itself. It’s dehumanizing to tell us that our sexual orientation and desire for the female sex is illegitimate. It’s downright rape mentality to tell us we must sleep with transwomen or else be labeled transphobic. And to organize an entire conference based on breaking the “cotton ceiling” (breaking into cotton panties, yeah, totally not rapey?) of lesbians is disgusting. why can’t you see that?
It’s dehumanizing to tell us that our sexual orientation and desire for the female sex is illegitimate. It’s downright rape mentality to tell us we must sleep with transwomen or else be labeled transphobic. Good thing no one is saying that! Because yes, if someone were advocating for a law saying “all lesbians must sleep with trans women,” that would be rapey and horrible. Even a discussion where the point was “all lesbians must sleep with trans women” would be rapey and horrible. BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING.
…and now I’m mad at myself for responding, so I will reiterate: This conversation is fucking stupid. Ninety percent of Feminist readers are on the same page here: Transphobia is not ok and not welcome! Those of you who think that questioning the identity of trans people is part of feminist analysis? Fine! Go on ahead! That is your business! But I don’t feel a need to underwrite your right to do that, so please don’t do that or promote it in this space. The SSPS comment sections are purposed to promote feminist work that fits within (even very loosely within!) the Feministe comment guidelines. We are really, REALLY generous with this shit. So if we (or I) are telling you “what you are posting is not acceptable,” that is serious, and I am taking it seriously. Because really I am like 99% flexible here. So please, where I am being inflexible? Respect it. Post your shit elsewhere. The internet is a big place. We don’t see eye to eye. There are plenty of people who see the world as you do. Go there. As for the rest of the commenters, let’s all focus on some good stuff, yeah? Instead of on the two or three people who are running this thread into the ground?
Hmmm, looks like Smash has gone running to the comfort of Bug Brennan’s Facebook page for some “Awww, poor baby” action and maybe a pat on the head and a bigotry-chip cookie. http://www.facebook.com/ladybugspoliticalsniffdown
I think Smash makes a good deal of sense. Meanwhile, you are attacking her personally. But I have understood for a long time that it is not actually possible to have discussions on issues of trans sexuality/gender that include critiques of policies, politics or even questions of the status quo. To do so is to invite attack. So let me just say I support Smash. Call me a transphobe if you like. I don’t actually care. You’re a transphobe. Happy?
But I have understood for a long time that it is not actually possible to have discussions on issues of trans sexuality/gender that include critiques of policies, politics or even questions of the status quo. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Right, because people like smash are the ones who ask “questions of the status quo” when it comes to issues of trans sexuality/gender. It’s not like her position on these issues is essentially identical to that of the American Psychiatric Association, pretty every Hollywood film on the topic, and Focus on the Family. Nope. She is a true revolutionary, relentlessly pushing for the restoration of Victorian realization of radical feminist values in the 21st century.
Nice to see you, too, EG! I’m touched that people actually miss me here when I’m gone. I didn’t get any “nice to see you’s” when I returned to my actual job, unfortunately. I guess I’m more of myself here anyway; I certainly enjoy it more here, Wicked Witches of the West included.
http://bugbrennan.com/2012/03/21/straight-lady-tells-lesbians-that-our-desire-to-avoid-peen-is-transphobic/ NO SMASH NO!
Much as I hesitate to invite further nonsense, I guess I should point out how highly disingenuous it is for anyone to imply that the hostility from these quarters to trans women, and the refusal to accept them as women in any way — by which I mean basic respect like proper pronoun usage, never mind considering them as potential partners or anything else — is tied to their genital status. The hostility, rejection, and vilification is, in general, just as great towards trans women who’ve had genital surgery as it is towards those who haven’t; both the “deceiver” and the “pathetic/ridiculous” stereotypes remain fully in play. One quick example: the thread not so very long ago on one of the very same hate-blogs Smash has on her blogroll, in which there was a truly hilarious discussion of how you can always tell the genitals of a “surgically constructed” trans woman from “real” female genitals because they smell like rotten meat. And so on. By the way: perhaps it’s something of a distinction without a difference, but I’m not entirely sure that the “queer women’s” community that the workshop is concerned with is necessarily the same as the “lesbian community,” or that anyone is “complaining” about lesbian women not being interested in dating trans women who haven’t had genital surgery. There are a lot of queer women, especially younger women, who very specifically don’t identify as lesbians for all sorts of reasons, and quite a few seem entirely happy to date trans men. I’m quite sure that that’s the basic social milieu the workshop is discussing. Not strategies on how to “gain access” to lesbian women. Finally, I have yet to hear a single comment from anyone, anywhere, giving one single reason why the workshop’s subject is remotely non-consensual or “rapy,” or can be fairly suspected of being such, or is any less legitimate a subject of discussion than a group of bisexual people talking about rejection by the gay and lesbian communities, or a group of Asian men discussing their general portrayal in popular culture as being non-sexual, unattractive, nerdy, etc., or any other group which, like trans women, is the subject of relentless cultural ridicule, and whose bodies are very specifically portrayed as sexually undesirable (except, in the case of trans women, in the highly unrealistic context of a very particular kind of porn), discussing the situation and how they can deal with it. I’m sure you can all think of different groups that fit that description. A discussion like this among any such group other than trans women would never be considered “rapey.” But if you start from the distorted, bigoted assumption that trans women are, always were, and always will be, MEN, I suppose it’s an easy conclusion to draw.
And here’s a lengthy and flagrantly disingenuous post by Smash on her own blog, characterizing the reaction here to her posting of that link as, among other things, a “stoning.” http://smashesthep.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/on-the-cotton-ceiling-rape-culture-and-feministe/ So I guess she’s just another oppressed victim of the powerful trans lobby, unjustly vilified for her brave truth-telling. It’s really quite startling how much, in this as in so many other things, the rhetoric of people like Smash parallels — and in many cases is virtually identical to — that of the equally oppressed and victimized members of the Christian Right, who bleat equally loudly about their persecution every time someone dares to call them out for their bigotry.
Right, because people like smash are the ones who ask “questions of the status quo” when it comes to issues of trans sexuality/gender. Right? Oh, brave smash, taking a stand against acceptance of trans people for who they are. How does she ever stand her ground against the tidal wave of transfriendliness that is positively sweeping our nation? Why, everywhere you look, trans people feel free to come out and live their lives as they please, free from persecution, insults, violence sexual or otherwise, job loss, or even funny looks! Who can save the poor, beleaguered small voices who dare to risk the wrath of the all-powerful trans mafia? Thank goodness for smash!
And here’s a lengthy and flagrantly disingenuous post by Smash on her own blog, characterizing the reaction here to her posting of that link as, among other things, a “stoning.” I really hate it when people do this–like when Clarence Thomas called being questioned about his sexual persecution of Anita Hill “a high-tech lynching.” You know what? There are women who are actually stoned as a punishment for, among other things, sexual activity. This is something that happens in this modern world. And it has nothing in common with being called out on transphobia in the comments section of a website. In fact, even if we had all just randomly decided to call her mean names without addressing the problems with what she was saying, that would still have absolutely nothing in common with a stoning.
Did you notice how Smashesthep was making a lot of whining noises on her blog about how this post was full of ad hominem attacks on her and not substantive arguments about the petition she posted? Well, her entire blog post was hypocritically exactly that, an ad hominem piece against Feministe readers that entirely ignored the many salient and substantive points made about the petition, the conference event that inspired the petition, and the original “cotton ceiling” (ugh, that name seems kinda gross to me) article. No, instead of engaging in any of the actual arguments made about the petition, the conference event, or the article, Smashesthep chose to focus instead on the non-substantive posts, and pretended that that’s all she got in response, when that is obviously not the case. I don’t think Smashesthep is actually on-the-ball enough to counter any of the substantive arguments made here, so she instead chose to play the hapless victim and post an ad hominem blog post and ad hominem Facebook comments about how terrible Feministe and its readers are, rather than addressing a single one of the many substantive comments made in rebuttal to her petition. I’ve noticed a strong correlation between bigotry and hypocrisy. I think that to be a bigot one has to be at least a bit of an hypocrite, and vice-versa.
Why, everywhere you look, trans people feel free to come out and live their lives as they please, free from persecution, insults, violence sexual or otherwise, job loss, or even funny looks! Finally the truth! I mean, my trans friend is married to his high school sweet heart like he’s real people! How will the poor innocent bigots practice their god given right to hate-monger if people attack them? 🙁
smash, I read your last blog post. Just to clarify, I wasn’t using ad hominem arguments against your viewpoint. I wasn’t using any arguments against your viewpoint. I find your rejection of trans people’s experiences to be horrible, callous, and hurtful. In real life, surrounded by people who share your viewpoint on trans issues, I engage with it in a calm, reasonable manner in order to maintain credibility. When I come to the one place where I am not surrounded by your viewpoint, finally expecting to have a breather. . .you know what I’m going to say? Fuck you. Fuck your viewpoint. Damn straight I want to silence you here. And stop being a fucking victim; the rest of the world accepts your viewpoint on trans issues with open arms.
Attacking women for being ‘transphobic’ seems intellectual bullying and a way of having to avoid actually engaging with ideas. Feminists have had to accept that feminism is a ‘broad church’ and there’s little to be gained from screaming that others are antifeminist for disagreeing with one’s own world view. Some feminists struggle with how antichoice or corporate women feminists can reconcile their position, but one attempts to engage rather than hurling abuse, as per comments above. Similarly with all other forms of political discussion. The whole identity based line–‘If you don’t agree with everything I say (or indeed, allow me to smash through your cotton barrier and have sex with me on demand) you’re a filthy bigot’ does not seem particularly logical or intelligent.
Attacking women for being ‘transphobic’ seems intellectual bullying and a way of having to avoid actually engaging with ideas. No one is being “attacked.” Social justice communities come up with terms like “sexist” or “racist” or “homophobic” or “transphobic” as short-form terms that summarize and encapsulate a series of behaviors. That way we don’t have to spell out exactly how a particular behavior treats women as inferior to men — we can say “that is sexist” and everyone understands what that means. “Transphobic” operates in the same way. It is a short-hand term to describe how trans people are treated as inferior / less authentic / threatening / wrong by the dominant class of cis gender people. And honestly, there is a lot to be gained by simply saying that some views are anti-feminist and we are not going to tolerate them here. Seriously, I put a TON of energy, every day, into deleting and moderating out sexist, racist, homophobic, etc comments. Because this is a feminist space. And there are a million places on the internet where you can debate whether women are people / whether women should have abortion rights / whether gay people are evil / whatever. This doesn’t have to be one of them. We are very big fans of good-faith exchanges of ideas. But you know, the person who thinks “women are inferior” is a good-faith position is not someone who is welcome here. Someone who thinks “trans women are not REAL woman” is also not welcome here. Because bigotry. That’s not an ad hominem attack; that’s a position statement.
And all of that said: This thread is to promote feminist work. Feminism has a lot of different faces, and I am not a fan of policing what FEMINISM must look like. But I would appreciate if this space would not be used to promote works that don’t fit out community and commenting guidelines. And that’s the final word. So let’s get back to actually highlighting and discussing productive, awesome feminist writing and other work — because there is so much of it!! — rather than focusing on the ass-backwards bigoted views of a small handful of people who want us to divert all of our attention and effort to them, because their viewpoints are quite simply dying out.
Uh. Am I the only one who understood the cotton ceiling to refer to one’s own underwear? Do trans folks not wear underwear?
Trying to break up a long comment presently in moderation, although for all I know it’s because of the 4-letter words: Congratulations, Ben; you’ve been singled out in the comments to smash’s blog post as feministe’s “cock of the walk,” to whom all the women here look to find out what they should feel on “Female topics.” Seriously, I hope being named by people like that isn’t something that upsets you too much. Consider the source. Every single comment over there is based on the unquestioned lies that that workshop is all about “poor, pussy-deprived MTFs” and “a m[a]n calling himself a woman while still packing penis shaming a Lesbian into having sex with him” (to quote a couple of the milder statements), and that this thread is all about libfems supporting rape, and so on. I probably should stay away from reading those comments further; I’m afraid I might see something I really don’t want to see. I’m not as brave as some of you seem to think.
This is the second part of my comment now in moderation: I do have to say that the idea these people seem to have of trans women as being suffused with a sense of entitlement (because of male privilege, of course!) to having PIV sex with women, or sex with men or or anyone else, is nothing but a lurid fantasy, in case anyone’s wondering. I simply don’t recognize the picture they paint, and I’ve met a whole lot of trans women, both in person, and online as a moderator for the last 6 or 7 years on a very active trans-related message board. And I can’t think of too many who felt “entitled” to anything — let alone PIV sex, which a whole lot of trans women have no interest in whatsoever (unless they’re the ones with the vagina), even assuming it’s within their physical capacity. Forget sex for a minute; most trans women I’ve known seem to understand very well that transition can often mean being alone for a very long time, if not forever, are prepared to lose just about everything and everyone they have (job, family, children, partner, friends, home, etc.), and, without being too melodramatic, often do. (I was prepared to lose everything except my relationship with my son, a loss that was unimaginable to me and which I never accepted as a possible outcome.) A far cry from the idea the commenters over there have of “A man says he’s really a woman and his penis is really a vagina and BAM! Free, easy sex, and no feminist will ever call them on it because it’s twaaaaaaaaaaaanzphobic to do so.” And so on.
Finally: Personally, I’ve not only been entirely celibate for the last six years since my most recent partner and I broke up within a year of my transition (including in the last three years, since I had surgery), but I’ve made no efforts in that regard and can’t even imagine doing so at this point. Even apart from whatever self-esteem issues I still have lurking (not to mention being past the age of “fuckability”!), just thinking about the possible range of negative reactions to any disclosure of my history is enough of a deterrent to even trying to meet someone of just about any sex or gender. So I’m afraid that my reality doesn’t fit the fantasy of those disgusting people at all.
Congratulations, Ben; you’ve been singled out in the comments to smash’s blog post as feministe’s “cock of the walk,” to whom all the women here look to find out what they should feel on “Female topics.” I find it odd that this was topic and discussion before Ben showed up, but some how Ben has been leading the charge? Dictating for us? I didn’t know Ben was such a talented ventriloquist that he could throw his voice days into the past. (Not maligning you Ben, I swear.)
Jill, thank you. If there’s any further discussion on this, I don’t think I can participate. Without sounding overly melodramatic, the level of vitriol that this has generated in anti-trans circles is more than I can deal with; it presents a risk of my being a specific target, something I neither want nor need.
I didn’t know Ben was such a talented ventriloquist that he could throw his voice days into the past. (Not maligning you Ben, I swear.) Hey now! I very much view it as malignment any time someone erases my masterful ventriloquism OR time traveling abilities. So. . .watch it.
While I can’t link to it yet (because it won’t run until next month), I’m working on an article examining economic disparities between queer men and queer women. Queer women are more likely to live away from major cities when compared to their male counterparts, despite the environment being less amicable to their orientation, in part because they still have fewer opportunities for well-paying work, and are much, much more likely to assume primary childcare duties. Working on this piece has been an eye-opener because I’m a die-hard city woman myself and my partner and I don’t have kids. We both hit a “glass ceiling” in the workforce in our 30s, and have been watching men fresh out of college pass us by, despite superior education, work history, skills, and accomplishments. It’s very much a taboo topic in urban areas like ours, because the prevailing sentiment is “Feminism won, women are doing great, and men are failing or falling behind horribly.” The mainstream media is definitely pushing this line of thought, and many people are buying in. And so I’ve noticed a serious feminist backlash as relates to how I and other Gen-X women are treated in the workplace over the past, say, five years, give or take. I don’t want to hijack, but I am curious: Does anyone on here know of women’s or feminist blogs that discuss economic issues and workforce disparities? I made the error of asking this question on a certain rad-fem blog, and got nasty sarcasm because I didn’t go along with the group in their tiresome trans/men/P-in-V-bashing. I’ve not seen much in the way of workplace/economics discussions on liberal feminist blogs, either. This seems like a good place to ask about it because I noticed a much more diverse set of blogs and topics linked to on here. I would cover the topic myself, but if I were found out, it could get me permanently barred from my profession, which is very much a boys’ club. Finally, while I didn’t write this, I stumbled upon a great blog called My Fault, I’m Female, which I think deserves a shout-out. Hop on over and read at least up to page 3 if you have 15 minutes to spare. It’s worth it!
Does anyone on here know of women’s or feminist blogs that discuss economic issues and workforce disparities? It seems to me that socialist feminism has always discussed economic issues and workforce disparities a lot. You may have already tried this, but I just googled “socialist feminist” in quotes and “blog” and a lot of interesting looking hits came up. I’m unsure whether you’d agree with their political perspectives or not, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
Jill, thanks! Donna L, you are awesome. I can’t even engage the level of hate these people have, and you are countering them so well. I really want to give you a virtual hug for this. Also, people like lily at 102 are why I identify as a gay woman or a queer woman rather than a lesbian. I cannot deal with the hate in those circles. As an aside, I’ve found that the women who treat trans women horribly are often the same women who tell femme queer women that our gender identities don’t exist either and that we should quit acting straight. Wonderful people, aren’t they? / sarcasm
GinnyC, give me a break. Being offended does not equal hatred.. and you’re assuming that I attack femmes? are you serious? I’m proud to be a lesbian and embrace femaleness.. I love all women. I am sexually attracted to biologically female women. that is what a lesbian is. my beef here has nothing to do with hatred and everything to do with the fact that any conference trying to find ways to coerce people into being sexually available to people they’re not attracted to is *wrong*
Lesbian = born-females attracted to born-females. To force any other definition on us is to usurp our identity and our culture and our shared history, and if hetero and bi women cannot understand why it is offensive to colonize someone else’s identity, I beg you to please listen to us. (though you won’t, I’m sure.)
Lesbian = born-females attracted to born-females. To force any other definition on us is to usurp our identity and our culture and our shared history, and if hetero and bi women cannot understand why it is offensive to colonize someone else’s identity, I beg you to please listen to us. (though you won’t, I’m sure.) Yeah, I’ll just let my trans lesbian friends know. I do wonder if you understand how offensive it is to erase gay trans women and I’d beg you to listen to me, but I’m sure you won’t.
Also, and I know you probably won’t get this either, but even as a pansexual woman who doesn’t have a particular genitalia *preference* for my partners, that doesn’t mean I also erase my partners’ gender – so the attraction I feel toward cis women is not something ridiculously different than the attraction I feel toward trans women, though both can be somewhat different than the attraction I feel toward men. They are all women. If I weren’t attracted to men at all, I would still be attracted to trans women. So eff off about how only [cis] lesbians understand (nevermind that there are cis lesbians who do date/sleep with trans lesbians too).
“Yeah, I’ll just let my trans lesbian friends know.” surely trans people know their biology is different from born-women. the ones with any sympathy for other minority identities surely balk at the idea of calling themselves lesbians. yet, so many don’t. so many are still male-privileged people with entitlement mentalities. this conference is evidence of that. I’m sure this is true. You sound like a really loving person. Thanks for the sarcasm. I am a very loving person though. I certainly do not harbour any ill-will towards anyone.
So eff off about how only [cis] lesbians understand (nevermind that there are cis lesbians who do date/sleep with trans lesbians too). Yeah. I think it’s pretty fucked up and offensive that Lily is equating an innate congential tendency (being a woman who is attracted chiefly to other woman) with her idiotic, completely culturally learned, gender essentialist horseshit philosophy. I’d say more, but I’m shaking with rage so I better not.
Intention to love does not equate to loving actions, clearly. I really honestly hope that one day you realize how ignorant and hurtful it is to erase and invalidate the lives of trans women and reduce people down to a very simplistic and inaccurate understanding of “biology”. To all trans people reading this thread, I’m sorry. I’m sorry that this is the shit you have to put up with for the apparently horrible act of being alive and being yourself.
surely trans people know their biology is different from born-women. What the hell are “born-women” in your world? People who are chromosomally XX? People who are born with both a uterus and a vagina? People who are legally assigned the female sex at the hospital? Cuz believe it or not, any combination of these three things is possible. Just because you want to believe in some abstract, unchanging metaphysical Womanhood that transcends and/or obliterates what, I don’t know, actual people say about their own actual fucking lives doesn’t means that any of your garbage corresponds to any reality other than that of your own warped thoughts.
Hello again LotusBen. Born-female = Female Assigned At Birth. I am slightly amuse that you accuse me of hatred and then spew vitriolic insults at me.
Yeah, Lily, we hate you for your bigoted ideas. You hate people for not fitting some bullshit model you have that isn’t based in reality. Maybe we’re both hateful, but you’re also an ignorant asshole.
I guess the lesbian-identified women who were assigned female at birth, aren’t sexually attracted to men in any way, and are partnered with trans women — because, gasp, they actually perceive them as women — either don’t really exist, aren’t really lesbians, or are deluded and/or deceived. Probably some combination of all of them. In an ideal world, trans women should have to go around with a yellow “T” affixed to their garments — or perhaps a scarlet one stamped on their foreheads — to avoid such horrifying outcomes.
I guess the lesbian-identified women who were assigned female at birth, aren’t sexually attracted to men in any way, and are partnered with trans women — because, gasp, they actually perceive them as women — either don’t really exist, aren’t really lesbians, or are deluded and/or deceived. Indeed, this is exactly the kind of vitriol that was directed at the partner of a friend of mine when they got together. I’m not sure what makes Lily think that she’s a better representative of ALL LESBIANS THROUGHOUT HISTORY than my friend’s partner, but apparently she does. Lily seems to be assuming that cis lesbians all have some kind of clairvoyant ability to immediately divine a woman’s sex/gender history and then decide whether or not they’re attracted to her. I wonder what kind of earth-shattering horror would ensue if she realized that she and other cis lesbians may well have found themselves attracted to trans women–and never even have known it.
To all trans people reading this thread, I’m sorry. I’m sorry that this is the shit you have to put up with for the apparently horrible act of being alive and being yourself. I am late to this thread, but JFC. What Jadey said there. That. So much. Lily, you are so blithely bigoted and so offensive and you really should shut the fuck up. The moderator made it clear that this kind of gross transphobia is not welcome in this forum. So… why are you still here spewing it?
I will say one last thing. Do you really believe lesbians should have to be open to becoming sexually active with male bodied people? Are you really suggesting that’s something all lesbians should be open to..? And do you really condone a conference workshop dedicated to making lesbians more amenable to having sex with male bodied people?? How is that not “reparative therapy” in a new package ?
Lily seems to be assuming that cis lesbians all have some kind of clairvoyant ability to immediately divine a woman’s sex/gender history and then decide whether or not they’re attracted to her. I wonder what kind of earth-shattering horror would ensue if she realized that she and other cis lesbians may well have found themselves attracted to trans women–and never even have known it. Given the crude stereotyping that so many people who share Lily’s views love to engage in with respect to trans women, I’m pretty sure they’ve managed to convince themselves that this almost never happens, because most trans women closely match that lovely description by Germaine Greer that I quoted recently. (Not to mention that some trans-hating radical feminists actually seem to believe, as I indicated earlier, that trans women emit a distinctive foul odor that gives them away, precisely equivalent to the belief in the existence of a foetor judaicus which was so prevalent among medieval Christians. Demonization is wonderful, isn’t it?) And to the extent that such unknowing physical attraction to trans women does occur, the explanation, of course, is deception by such trans women, with their failure to immediately disclose their history to all and sundry the precise equivalent of sexual assault (as a number of people argued on a particularly odious thread on Feministing a few years ago, one of a number that caused me to stop visiting that site.) All of which brings us back full circle to the need for distinctive clothing or markings to be worn by those few trans women who don’t look like Germaine Greer’s lurid fantasy.
Do you really believe lesbians should have to be open to becoming sexually active with male bodied people? Are you really suggesting that’s something all lesbians should be open to..? Open to? Yes. Obligated to? Of course not. But “obligation” does not follow “being open to”. Personally, I’ve made it my business to be open to becoming sexually active with all kinds of people that my upbringing encouraged me to shun sexually, including people of colour, people with disabilities, fat people, and women (what with the whole growing up in a homophobic culture too). Given how infrequently attracted I am to anyone and how often other people are turned off by my own characteristics, this has been an enormous relief and blessing for me. Challenging my own internalized biases (in some cases even against people I share characteristics with – like fat people – learning to accept my own body as well as the bodies of others has turned repulsion to love and affection more than once) has helped me discover my own sexuality more deeply and be more comfortable in my body and the occasional relationship I do pursue. “Being open to” doesn’t mean having sex with someone unconsensually. I have never had non-consensual sex with anyone and don’t plan to any time ever. But I re-examined my thoughts and assumptions pretty critically and realized that I was having some pretty fucked up responses that had a hell of a lot more to do with bigotry than my own sexual needs and desires. I’m totally fine with people not being attracted to other people, in that very general sense. You, for instance, I would not wish on any trans woman ever. But don’t pretend that “openness” and critical self-awareness is another word for rape. Note: I am not attracted to *everyone* I meet. I’m infrequently attracted to anyone at all, in fact. But there are certain characteristics which no longer turn me off providing I’m attracted to someone for other reasons. How hard is that really to grasp? I mean, seriously?
Just about everything Lily says about that workshop — from the description of trans women as “male-bodied,” to the assumption that all or most of the trans women in question possess male-coded genitals, to the attempted suppression of the fact that the vilification of trans women by the transphobic wing of radical feminism extends just about equally to trans women who have had genital surgery, to the ignoring of the fact that the social milieu which is the subject of that workshop involves queer-identified women, NOT lesbian-identified women (and there is very often a difference, as mentioned above), to the assertion that the workshop has anything at all to do with shaming lesbians into learning to love dick or has anything to do with non-consensual sex or “making” anyone do anything, or is functionally any different from bi people discussing their rejection by self-identified gays and lesbians, or a workshop discussing the effect of societal fat-hatred on people’s sex lives, or discussing the stereotyping of Asian men as undesirable, unattractive, and effectively asexual — is disingenuous and/or a blatant falsehood. Particularly since every single one of those issues has been repeatedly addressed in this thread, and elsewhere, but the trans-haters just go right ahead and continue to whine about how oppressed and victimized they are. Just like the Christian right, pretty much. (One of these days, I’ll post that Germaine Greer excerpt again, together with an extraordinarily similar, equally cruel description of trans women in a piece by the loathsome Paul McHugh, the ancient Johns Hopkins psychiatrist who was responsible for closing their trans clinic decades ago, and serves as a “sexuality advisor” to the Vatican. There isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between them.)
Finally: there is not one single thing about the alleged social construction and mythical nature of gender identity (as distinguished from gender expression, which is obviously is largely a social construction) that couldn’t be said with equal force and equal superficial (but entirely specious) logic about sexual orientation. People may “believe” that they’re lesbians, but clearly, in the utopia to come, when men and women are fully equal, there will no longer be any need for women to have sex with women! (A point Patrick Califia made in one of his books years ago.) It’s remarkable how transphobic radfems are unable to perceive the fundamental inconsistency between their reacting with horror to the proposition that sexual orientation and the scope of sexual attraction can (sometimes) be fluid and/or capable of expansion, but simultaneously sneering at the proposition that gender identity can be very real.
Donna L – I am so sorry for the nasty stuff being posted here. You said something very interesting upthread about the difference between the acceptance of trans women and trans men. I would be very interested in hearing/reading more about this. I would normally do my own searching, but considering some of the crap written out there, I thought I’d ask a trusted source. If you don’t feel comfortable posting any links here, I’m on twitter. And I’m sorry, again and sending you good thoughts and feelings because you and any trans person lurking here deserves a life free from this hatred.
Everyone, If I started a blog under a code name or alias with the mission statement of outing/exposing companies that practiced active gender discrimination, would you be interested? I was envisioning a blog where I accepted anonymous submissions from people who told their stories of discrimination at specific companies, and I would also route people to review sites like Glassdoor and Indeed, and encourage them to write reviews of sexist employers, which I’d link back to. I may add the goals of exposing racism and homophobia in as well, depending on how well-received the blog is. Why? I am tired of living in a two-tier country, with one set of economic opportunities for privileged groups, and one set for another. Over the past 12 years, I’ve worked at two misogynistic companies, one misognyistic/racist/homophobic company, and one misandrist company. The “My Fault, I’m Female” blog showed me that, despite what the American media claims, gender discrimination is alive and well, and rather than us accepting what we’re told is real by the wealthy mainstream media moguls, why shouldn’t we tell our stories? By the way, I plan to accept stories from men who’ve encountered discrimination too. The best team leader I’ve ever met in my life lost his career in the hands of a sexist female executive, so believe me, I’m equally intolerant of misandry too. Would you participate if I created such a site? And would people you know participate too? Or would you fear losing your career if you were to come forward with your story? Also, what are my chances of getting “outed” by the especially vengeful men’s rights activists and rad-fems? I will absolutely accept examples of transphobia in the workplace, which will anger certain people, and as we all know, the vitriolic MRAs feel the middle-class white man is the most persecuted being on the planet, so I’m fearful of being exposed by the likes of them too. Has anyone successfully blogged under a pseudonym without getting caught? If getting caught is an issue for all of us, is there a way to make the blog less risky? Like, accept stories about employers, but not name the employer? (For example, if you experienced sexism at Bank of America in Delaware, we could attribute it to “major national bank, Northeastern USA.”) Would that be as effective? Sorry so many questions. Thanks in advance to anyone who answers!
Thanks, Safiya, and also to GinnyC and others. My style of writing may give the impression that all of this isn’t personally painful and difficult for me, but it definitely is. Most of what I’ve heard about the subject you raise has been in private discussions, in person and on closed trans message boards, but if I can think of anything to link I will.
And I should add that I don’t for one moment believe that trans guys have it easier or better than trans women. But despite the amazing similarities and commonalities I’ve found with trans guys I’ve known — very much two sides of the same coin — there are certainly differences in various kinds of experiences, and perceptions by non-trans people.
sexism at Bank of America in Delaware Whoo, go Blue Hens! Sorry…clinging to anything that doesn’t make me wanna punch/scream/cry.
Isn’t lovely how Lily is erasing all other gay women to fit her transphobic definition of what “lesbians” are. /sarcasm She reminds me of the Christian fundamentalists telling me I just need to find the right man, which believe me I have heard. Not only is Lily telling trans people that they don’t exist. She is also trying to tell a bunch of lesbians and gay women that we aren’t actually gay. But of course, she won’t say this directly. Honestly, people like her scare me. They are especially scary because they either do not realize, or more likely do not care, that they are contributing building hate that kills people. All fundamentalists are the same at the core whether they worship a religion or an ideology. And they don’t give a shit about anyone who isn’t part of their group. So Lilly, if you haven’t gone away, want to tell me that I’m not gay?
I will not sign the petition against the cotton ceiling workshop. The conference is designed for different groups of people (abuse survivors, people with disabilities, trans* people, etc.) to discuss their own sexuality–not for any of these groups of people to force themselves on anyone else. This petition seems based in assuming that some people shouldn’t be allowed a voice in discussing their own sexuality–it’s offensive. The existence of the petition and the comments promoting it on this thread demonstrate exactly why the workshop is needed. I’m a cisgendered woman who would be open to a relationship with a transwoman. Transphobic bigots limit the choices available to people like me by making transwomen afraid to even think about a relationship, as DonnaL describes above. So, I’m glad they’re having the workshop and if I were in Toronto, I’d be happy to guard the door to keep away any disruptive haters.
If I started a blog under a code name or alias with the mission statement of outing/exposing companies that practiced active gender discrimination, would you be interested? I was envisioning a blog where I accepted anonymous submissions from people who told their stories of discrimination at specific companies I think that’s an fabulous idea, and I’d be very interested. I’ve never been a victim of really obvious employment discrimination myself, but I’ve been friends with a lot of people who have, including a woman at my current company who was constantly sexually harassed by a male supervisor and then fired when she tried to file a complaint. She tried to challenge it through various channels but never get anywhere. So if I could have referred her to your website, she could have at least disseminated the truth about some of the shitty, discriminatory labor practices that my company allows. I would really encourage you to move forward with your idea.
Alisha @ 152 – Yes, I would be most interested. I’m not sure how much I would participate, but I’d definitely want to check it out. I can imagine a site like that being a valuable resource. If getting caught is an issue for all of us, is there a way to make the blog less risky? Like, accept stories about employers, but not name the employer? (For example, if you experienced sexism at Bank of America in Delaware, we could attribute it to “major national bank, Northeastern USA.”) Would that be as effective? That would certainly be less risky, but in my opinion would defang the project somewhat, and be a bit less effective? Knowing the names of the companies would kind of bring the stories home, and if a corporation is particularly atrocious I want to know so I don’t take my business there. But for those concerned about backlash, not naming them would much safer. Maybe naming the company could be optional at posters’ discretion?
Look…can’t we agree that the concept behind the workshop (queer trans women need strategies to integrate fully into the sexual field of gay women in general, and to create visual representations of the prejudices in that community) is a good idea while severely disliking the way in which it’s been presented? (I mean, excluding cis partners of queer trans women? The incredibly offensive title – and I’m bi, possibly pansexual, it’s not like I have any particular attachment/aversion to genitalia?) To me, this kind of reads like the queer trans version of the pickup artist movement, and that’s skeevy at best. I wouldn’t know without attending the workshop itself if that’s what it’s about, but it seems like a gross term to define a really necessary and important conversation.
Argh, my brain ate that sentence there…that should read “it’s not like I have any particular attachment/aversion to male- or female-seeming genitalia and certainly not going to rule partners out or misgender them because of their appearance”. It sounds really weird in my head as it stands right now, so my apologies.
I mean, excluding cis partners of queer trans women? Would you have the same negative reaction if a group of disabled women had a workshop about exactly the same issues, without including partners who were not themselves disabled? I have a feeling you wouldn’t. And if that’s the case, perhaps you’ll consider re-examining your reaction to trans women doing exactly the same thing. I do agree that the title of the workshop was a misjudgment, committed in a misplaced attempt to be clever and catchy. Trans women always must remember that the world is full of people who despise us, and are always waiting for any excuse to pounce, and to use any mistake a trans person makes as “proof” of the sins of all trans women.
And may I also point out that the “pickup artist movement” happens to be a male thing (so far as I know), and that I find it rather peculiar, and rather suspicious, that out of all the things in the world that you might have decided to analogize a trans women’s workshop on sexuality to — like, say, the one I just mentioned — you picked an arguably predatory activity that’s engaged in by men?
@DonnaL, I picked the PUA movement because of a perceived similar focus on “getting sex” which seems to overtake their actual message of “um, guys, you need to overcome your shyness and put yourself out there”. Or am I wrong that that seems to be the focus of their literature, which has been completely devalued by the misogyny of the skeevesters who inhabit the internet comms? I can also compare it to Cosmo’s relationship advice, which I find every bit as horrendous in the other direction. As someone who does in fact have some mental disabilities, and the partner of someone who has some, I think partners are totally required to be part of a conversation about sex/relationships. If, for example, I were hosting a “survivors having sex safely/enjoyably” panel, I would include partners of survivors, because guess what: those are the people having sex with survivors. Those are the people having relationships with survivors. They need to pipe up about “hey, survivors aren’t broken/fucked up/sexless/sluts/insert stereotype here”. They need to pipe up about the fact that sex with survivors is doable, easy, indistinguishable from having sex with people, because, um, survivors ARE people. In the same way that trans women ARE women. A more layered context, perhaps, which is directly related to more axes of oppression. (See: me-as-Indian in India vs. me-as-Indian in Canada.) And! These are also the people who need to hear about issues their partners have to face. These are the people who need to realise that they need to accommodate for more prejudices being leveled against their partners. These are the people who need to understand that there is a spectrum, and where others are on that spectrum, not just their partners. Their participation is one half a sort of “it gets better” solidarity statement, the other half a learning experience for them so they can navigate the oppression their partners face in a way that they’re allies, not bumbling goodhearted triggerers. As someone who IS disabled, who is a survivor, yeah. If I’m hosting a panel on disabled people having sex with neurotypicals, I’d want partners there to learn, to demonstrate that this is doable and more importantly DONE. And finally, “Trans women always must remember that the world is full of people who despise us, and are always waiting for any excuse to pounce, and to use any mistake a trans person makes as “proof” of the sins of all trans women.” —-> Accusing one trans person who mods a panel that you yourself acknowledged was a “misjudgment” in naming of coming off skeevy =/= accusing all trans people of being sexual predators. I don’t know if that was a thinly veiled statement about my being transphobic and I have issues picking up tone at the best of times, so I don’t know if that was what you wanted to say, but…isn’t agreeing with the concept of the workshop kind of, uh, in support of your point? D:
I very deliberately didn’t accuse you of being transphobic, and said instead that your analogy made me suspicious. If I had concluded that you were transphobic, I would certainly have come right out and said so. And the comment about trans people having to be careful about making any misstep was amply justified by the rest of this thread. It wasn’t a response specifically to your comment. We’ll have to disagree about whether there’s something wrong with having one workshop that doesn’t include partners or other cis people. It’s not the only one ever, you know.
Okay, sorry about that. I’ve gotten into disagreements online because of massive misunderstandings of tone, so I was worried. Also, because I lurk a lot at Feministe and I really respect your opinions on things, so I freaked out when I thought you’d concluded I was transphobic, because when really level-headed people like you get even as mildly pointed as you did with me, it’s well worth paying attention to what that might say about my assumptions, you know? I confess I was thinking about it from the viewpoint of survivors/disabled communities, with which I’m much more familiar, but which probably aren’t analogous in this case. I’m very sorry for any hurt my comment caused to you or others reading and will take care to be more thoughtful in the future.
@Ben and Sandy: Great to hear your interest in this. I’ll continue moving forward with it once my article’s gone to press. Sandy, I think giving people the option to name the company or use a general descriptor would be a great idea. Thanks for your feedback. I know I feel a twinge of paranoia every time I share a personal anecdote online so I totally empathize with others who do. I also agree that those who are willing to name the company will help make more people aware of specifically where the discrimination is coming from, and save people the heartache of working at such places in the future. Ben, I’m sorry to hear about your friend’s experience. I was actually fired from my first professional job after enduring a year of harassment and come-ons from my boss. He regularly encouraged me to work in prostitution, video porn, and for 1-900 numbers, and advised that I would make an excellent “servant-wife” a la 1950s American sitcom. (And he never met a racial, misogynistic, or homophobic slur he didn’t like.) When I was fired, he cited my “incompetence” as the reason, but I got a new job less than two months later doing the exact same thing and was quickly promoted, so I call bull on that. The size of the severance check I got, plus the fact he didn’t fight me on unemployment, led me to believe that he knew he was wrong – and he knew I knew, and he’d paid me off to shut up about it. No one should experience this at work. Not today, not a decade ago…not EVER.
I’m disappointed and furious at the transmisogyny coming from the lesbian community over the cotton ceiling discussion. I feel incredibly alienated by it, as a cisgendered queer woman who has has trans partners in the past. The illogical (and not based on fact, or on the original text at all) response baffles me, to be honest. “The gathering of MAAB folks discussing how to best access women”? Huh? Way to misrepresent the discussion in the first place to support some sort of weird lesbian panic about trans women being among them. I got the impression that it was a space to talk about the various ways trans women deal with discrimination in “sex positivity”, and how/why that is. I didn’t think it was some sort of trans/cis woman rapey key party. Really ridiculous slippery slope argument. And how ironic that the response seen here, which is often violent, shaming and paranoid, is likely to keep trans women in the closet about their identities, meaning they’re not only unsafe in your spaces, but also invisible. And then posting names and links (including to a SW ad, potentially outing the sex worker and putting her at further risk for, wait for it, the violence and rape they’re apparently scared she’d commit) on a “pretendians” site, because someone thinks trans women are appropriating lesbianism? Really? It makes me sick to my stomach. I can hope and pray that maybe some of the commenters here will educate themselves by reading “13 Myths and Misconceptions about Trans Women: Part One and Part Two” but I’m probably shouting down a well. Still, this bit seems particularly relevant: An argument I’ve encountered repeatedly is “well what’s to stop some male rapist or child molester or voyeur from putting on some lipstick, claiming to be transgender, and then sexually assaulting your daughters!” (Ominous scary organ chord!). Well… there has never, ever been such an incident. No man has ever disguised himself as transgender for the sake of perpetrating such a crime. And if what you are worried about is sexual assault and voyeurism then those are the issues you should be targeting, enacting policies against, and the people whom you should be demonizing. Don’t demonize and punish innocent trans people over some wild, imagined hypothetical. Would you ban lesbians from women’s facilities on the possibility of their voyeurism? No, probably not, and it’s extremely statistically unlikely for lesbians to commit sexual assault in such a setting. But… it’s just as unlikely for trans women to do so. And remember that stuff about our libidos? Our difficulty achieving erection if we even have a penis? If prevention of sexual assault is something you’re keenly interested in then please start by focusing on dismantling a misogynistic culture that objectifies and devalues women and places their humanity as secondary to their bodies. As for the idea trans women have male privilege… Go to Trans Day of Remembrance and tell me these women have male privilege. Go on. Listen to the multiple horrific ways they die (last year some victims were mutilated, raped multiple times, set on fire, etc), and how many trans women die vs trans men, and tell me they’re not dealing with trans misogyny, that it doesn’t exist. I dare you.
Thanks for this. As difficult as it is for me to talk about, there does seem to be a pattern of extreme, over-the-top violence when trans women are murdered for being who they are — as you say, burning, mutilation, dozens of stab wounds, heads bashed in beyond recognition with iron frying pans and similar implements (as happened to both Gwen Araujo and Angie Zapata), are all very common. As are claims that “trans panic made me do it” — in other words, she “deserved it” for not having that “T” tattooed on her forehead; see above. I knew about the website you mentioned; it’s unspeakably repulsive. The word they use is actually “pretendbians”; they put up what they consider unflattering photos (i.e., photos that “prove” that these are “really men”) of trans women who describe themselves on the Internet as lesbian-identified, and have the temerity to be proud of it, and to be willing to fight back against transphobia, and then invite their acolytes to chime in with disgusting comments. Their response to complaints about invasion of privacy is basically “tough; the photos are out there on the Internet and we can do what we want. These ‘men’ are appropriating lesbian identity and deserve whatever opprobrium we cast upon them,” etc. Not that I’m precisely lesbian-identified myself, but the idea of being a target for this kind of thing terrifies me. That fear is one of the main reasons that I never even considered having my own blog, and wouldn’t ever even want to write any kind of guest post about trans issues, here or anywhere else. It would be easy enough as it is for anyone to figure out who I really am and come after me, and I’m prefer not to make it even easier. Not surprisingly, the site was started by the loathsome Cathy Brennan, the poor excuse for a human being who actually co-wrote and submitted a paper to the United Nations arguing that allowing trans women to use women’s bathrooms constitutes discrimination against women, endangers them (the old “trans women are rapists and must be kept out of women’s bathrooms” lie, based on a grand total of zero actual incidents), blah blah blah. She’s tried to divide trans people by saying that she has nothing against trans women who’ve had genital surgery, but as someone who falls into that category myself, I’m not impressed. I guess she favors the stationing of police at the door of every ladies’ room in the USA to carry out underwear checks. Or, perhaps, having hidden cameras inside every toilet stall. It seems there’s more upsetting stuff in the news every day. Not that it’s earth-shattering, but just in the last couple of days there was the story about the young trans woman (who started transitioning at 14), being kicked out of the Miss Universe Canada competition, because supposedly you have to have been “born female.” What’s even worse is the media reaction, for example, Yahoo News putting the story up and then specifically inviting readers to chime in with their opinions, undoubtedly knowing what would happen. The last time I checked there were more than 8,000 comments, and of the ones I looked at, 99% were hateful. And then there’s the awful story in the last few days of the court in Berlin ruling that it’s OK to institutionalize an 11-year old trans girl, at her father’s behest, to try to force her to be a boy, and toprevent her mother from encouraging her to be herself. Apparently, trans stuff in Berlin is controlled by the German equivalent of Ken Zucker — reparative therapy for trans children is the answer! So much for Europe supposedly being so progressive about trans issues. I know I’ve said it before, but sometimes I feel I can’t take it anymore and have to stop reading and speaking about these issues; it’s too overwhelming. And I’m supposed to be one of the “success stories” — I didn’t lose my job, I didn’t lose my son, I’m perceived as a woman (at least by people who don’t know my history), and so on. But knowing all that doesn’t always help. (It also doesn’t help, of course, that my Cymbalta prescription ran out yesterday and there are no more refills and the pharmacy hasn’t been able to get hold of my doctor and I’m really, really suffering from the effects of cold-turkey withdrawal right now, but that’s another story entirely.)
Tina, I’ve deleted all of your comments on this thread so far, including one that calls community members here some nasty names (so sorry, everyone else on this thread, that you have no idea what I’m talking about). But Tina, I’m getting sick of it. Please do not post here again. If you do leave nasty, sexist comments here again, I will publish your email address and IP address. GO AWAY.
Kitty, my response to the substance of what you said is in moderation right now: too long, I assume. But thank you.
I just think people often forget that actually, if anyone trans has male privilege, it’s trans men– This growing “gender gap” between trans masculine and trans feminine communities is not unique to the MWMF trans woman-exclusion debate, but can be seen in other areas of transgender activism. While trans men used to be a minority in the trans community, over the last 15 years their numbers have significantly increased and, in many cities and college campuses, they have come to dominate transgender organizations and activism. This prominence is often enabled by the trans-masculinist leanings of feminist and queer activism (which tend to be suspicious of, or less welcoming toward, trans women both before and after our transitions). Trans men also enjoy significant social advantages over trans women, both because they physically tend to “pass” as cissexuals more often and more easily than trans women, and because of the male privilege they experience post-transition. Trans women — especially those who transition at a young age and who thus do not benefit significantly from male privilege pre-transition — have more difficulties finding and maintaining employment, are more susceptible to poverty, and are more likely to engage in survival sex work to make ends meet. -Julie Serano, “Rethinking Sexism“ I’m always a bit amazed at how little people talk about that- it seems pretty obvious to me. Trans men benefit from male privilege, even if they don’t have the same amount of male privilege as cis men. My ex husband, who was a trans man, was incredibly disparaging about trans activism, because he scoffed “no one knows I’m trans, so why do I need to march around and thrust it in people’s faces?” He was a big dude, and a scrapper, so not as worried about violence anyway. Still, *I* worried for him, because I knew some of the places he worked (pub management) were incredibly rough and if it came out he was trans they might kill him. The trans women I know weren’t typically as lucky- they couldn’t blow off trans activism, because it was actively, every day, about survival for them.
Thanks, Jill; Tina has been whining over at factcheckme (one of the worst of the trans-hating blogs) about how oppressed she is by you for not being allowed to post her opinions about trans women here. She also asserts that the trans women here (I guess she means me, because I’ve been pretty much on my own in this thread, unfortunately) are belligerent and have a huge sense of entitlement, and are protected by Jill. Because otherwise, I’m sure her devastating logic and witty ripostes would have worn me down to the size of a gerbil by now.
She also asserts that the trans women here (I guess she means me, because I’ve been pretty much on my own in this thread, unfortunately) are belligerent and have a huge sense of entitlement, and are protected by Jill. Hi Donna. . .that’s probably what she meant, although she’s not quite right (in more ways other than just the obvious ones). I’m sure any transphobes still reading this thread will get a real kick out of what I’m about to say, but I’ll need to say it sometime, and this time and place seems as good as any. So anyway, I’ve been going through a lot of changes the past couple months. I’ve started going to a therapist again, and I’ve gotten into a romantic relationship with a trans-positive, bisexual woman. And I’ve finally accepted what at some level I’ve always known but been too terrified to say out loud: I’m a genderqueer transsexual woman. It feels exhilirating to finally accept this, and I’m optimistic if a bit scared about the future, which will involve full social transition and also probably medical transition. I think I prefer gender-neutral or feminine pronouns, and I’ve started going by Rebecca with my therapist and the friends that I’ve come out to so far. I’m going to keep posting on Feministe as “LotusBen” for a little while for the sake of continuity and then start posting under “LotusBecca.” So yeah. That’s what’s new in my life! Anyway, sorry to hear you’ve been unhappy recently, Donna, and unable to get your Cymbalta prescription refilled. And cheers to smash, FactCheckMe, lily, or any of my other “friends” out there reading this.
And I’ve finally accepted what at some level I’ve always known but been too terrified to say out loud: I’m a genderqueer transsexual woman. It feels exhilirating to finally accept this, and I’m optimistic if a bit scared about the future, which will involve full social transition and also probably medical transition. Congratulations, Rebecca. 🙂
Ben, I can’t say I’m the least bit surprised. I kind of thought this might be the case. (I don’t know if you think of it as a good thing or not that you set off my transdar so quickly, but it’s the truth.) I won’t necessarily say “congratulations” about your epiphany, since nobody ever said this was an easy thing to deal with — unless you’d like me to, in which case “congratulations”! — but I’m very happy that you finally feel able to say this out loud, here and elsewhere, to yourself as much as anyone. I know from experience what an incredible relief it can be to do that, finally — and I’m also happy for you that it didn’t take you as many years as it did me. And great news about the romantic relationship, too! I wish there were a way of giving you my email address, in case you ever want to get in touch with me to talk about any of this stuff — or in case you and/or the woman you’re in a relationship with are ever interested in participating in the trans forum where I’ve been a moderator all these years, which is intended for partners of trans people as well as trans people themselves — but I don’t really even feel safe posting the old, rarely-used email address I gave to someone else here a few months ago, given the kind of people who’ve been lurking around here recently. Anyway, take care of yourself, and illegitimi non carborundum. Donna PS: I think maybe I’m supposed to get a toaster now from from the Central Committee of the Trans Politburo.
Sorry, one last thing: I guess this means that the position of being Feministe’s “cock of the walk” is open now?
Sorry, one last thing: I guess this means that the position of being Feministe’s “cock of the walk” is open now? Can I volunteer? I have, like, three, of varying gauges. That ought to qualify me.
It feels exhilirating to finally accept this, and I’m optimistic if a bit scared about the future, which will involve full social transition and also probably medical transition. I’m really happy that it sounds like you’re taking some great steps for yourself. I don’t know if congratulations is the right word, but I have cyber hugs or high-fives to share, whichever is your thing. ..I’m actually legit smiley over this. I wish there were a way of giving you my email address, I think you can ask Jill or one of the moderators to share your email addresses privately. They’re kind of badass about that kind of thing.
I think you can ask Jill or one of the moderators to share your email addresses privately. They’re kind of badass about that kind of thing. We are badass! It’s true. Just let me know what you want sent where. And congratulations on everything congratulatable, Rebecca.
Just let me know what you want sent where. I’m sure this is an incredibly stupid question, but do the moderators already have my email address, or do I have to contact you somehow to send it to you to forward to Becca in case she wants to get in touch with me? Thanks. Donna
Thanks guys! I appreciate all the kind words. I’m very excited! Ben, I can’t say I’m the least bit surprised. I kind of thought this might be the case. (I don’t know if you think of it as a good thing or not that you set off my transdar so quickly, but it’s the truth.) Actually, Donna, that’s wonderful, and it’s exactly the sort of thing I want to hear right now. I mean, I’m sure of who I am and what I want to be doing, in my heart and with my emotions, but I still have a lot of nagging self-doubts, as you could imagine. So anything that validates my identity feels super good, and I know it’s something that might not always be easy to come by. So thank you. And actually, thank you, in general, it’s been really great getting to know you over the past few months and reading what you’ve had to say on all sorts of topics. I wish there were a way of giving you my email address, in case you ever want to get in touch with me to talk about any of this stuff — or in case you and/or the woman you’re in a relationship with are ever interested in participating in the trans forum. I’d love to talk to you or participate in your forum! In my younger years, I did a lot of trolling on the internet, but one thing I’ve always tried to do at Feministe is make everything I’ve said here completely consistent with who I am as a person. And–maybe it’s reckless–but I’m not afraid to have anything I say here tied back to the rest of my life. The main email I use for personal as well as professional purposes is lotusben@riseup.net, and that’s something I’ve shared on this forum before. Feel free to email me anytime.
Wow, LotusBecca, that’s a real achievement, to be able to start articulating that identity to others as well as yourself. I’m really happy for you, for the new relationship as well as the happiness in being able to say who you are. I wish you the best in what lies ahead! Donna, it breaks my heart to read what you wrote, not least because of how unhappy you are. I know that in the face of cruelty as well as depression, good wishes can do very little, but you know, I hope, that I think you are wonderful and strong, and want happiness for you. I’m sure I’m not the only one.
Thanks Jadey, thanks PrettyAmiable, thanks Caperton, thanks librarygoose, and thanks EG. I really, really, really appreciate it. 😀
Well now this thread went from a total clusterfuck to entirely warming my heart 🙂 Just for future reference, the mods here have whatever email address you enter for yourself when you log in to comment. So Donna, we do have an email address for you, You have LotusBecca’s now, so you can use that, but let us know if you need further assistance in connecting and we’re happy to help out behind the scenes so that no one has to make their info public.
Congratulations, LotusBecca! Excellent choice of name, if I do say so. 🙂 Haha, why thank you. I agree; it is an excellent choice of name!
She also asserts that the trans women here (I guess she means me, because I’ve been pretty much on my own in this thread, unfortunately) Donna I just wanted to pop in here and say that I’m sorry for not seeing this thread sooner. I know from experience that it completely sucks being one of if not the only trans woman in situations like these, and I wish I had come across this earlier to support you. You are an inspiration to me and I’d like to think an inspiration to most other trans women as well. Also LotusBecca, your name is excellent. I’m very happy for you 🙂 I’m nowhere near as amazing as Donna but if you want another trans woman to talk to I’m more then willing.
You are an inspiration to me and I’d like to think an inspiration to most other trans women as well. Well she’s certainly an inspiration to this trans woman! And thanks for saying something Lara. I definitely would like to talk to you. Feel free to email me anytime; my address is upthread a few posts. I don’t know a whole lot of other trans women so it definitely is going to be super cool to have people to talk to.
Well now this thread went from a total clusterfuck to entirely warming my heart 🙂 i had the same reaction. Sending warmest wishes, strength & cyberhugs, (((LotusBecca)))
Speaking of late to the game — I’ve been kind of discombobulated lately, what with the Cymbalta deprivation and then not feeling well the last few days (which may or may not be a coincidence) — the comments reviving this thread reminded me that I very much wanted to thank EG, and Pretty Amiable, and Lara, and Becca, for their extremely kind and sweet words. Which mean a lot to me.