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Fall Into the [Reverse Gender] Gap

This is a guest post by Jessica Mack. You can find Jessica on Twitter here.

One of the concepts that I hope fades out as we enter 2012 – along with flash mobs and marshmallow vodka – is the “reverse gender gap.”
The New York Times this week has a piece titled, “They Call it the Reverse Gender Gap.” First of all, who is “they,” and can they please stop? For a year-end round-up piece on women, this is kind of depressing.

The article’s opener states what is precisely the problem: “much of the talk around women — at least in the United States — has moved from empowerment and global gender gaps to the trend of young single women out-earning men and the rise of female breadwinners.”

It is important to recognize that women in the US have made strides toward gender equality in some ways. Women are bringing home more bacon (though still not as much as men for equal work) and banging out the Master’s Degrees and PhDs. This progress has been hard-won and a long time coming. So let’s put on a party hat and celebrate for a minute.

But we need only glance at the news, or Google the words “sexual assault,” “Plan B,” or “heartbeat” to remind ourselves of the more abysmal big picture. Somehow, in the American obsession with doom and gloom, small but important gains for women have become a reason to worry. They’ve become a reason to claim that the gender gap is not just closing, but – worse – it’s reversing.

Men are becoming disempowered by the second, and the worst part? There aren’t any left to marry. This is where the discussion veers left and loses me, a card carrying member of the group the Times is calling “high-earning young women transforming gender relationships, upending patterns of matchmaking, marriage and motherhood, creating a new conflict between the sexes, redefining the word “breadwinner.” (Sounds like the best mob ever, right?)

Women are marrying and having babies later, or not at all – data backs this up. This seems like a rather normal or natural progression to me, as demographic patterns shift along with economic growth and changing loci of power in society. Maybe (hopefully) it’s by choice, but some have also suggested that it’s sometimes by default. That women are getting awesome-r to the detriment of men, and in a society stuck on the notion that women marrying often means women “marrying up,” a chasm has opened up.

Or, as Kate Bolick wrote in her prolific piece for October’ Atlantic, “we’ve arrived at the top of the staircase, finally ready to start our lives, only to discover a cavernous room at the tail end of the party, most of the men gone already, some having never shown up — and those who remain are leering by the cheese table, or are, you know, the ones you don’t want to go out with.” Like we’ve won the battle but lost the war.

I responded to her piece here, arguing that the entire premise is based on this sort of old-school thinking. Bolick creates an unhelpful dichotomy between being single (read lonely, spinster-esque) or married (read co-dependent and chained for life). To me, it doesn’t reflect the far more complex and enlightened reality of young women today – even those who are single. There are many shades of “grey” to modern relationships, today’s young women (and men) are living them and creating them daily.

That’s why what was probably meant as a sobering reality check in the Times piece is actually a breath of fresh air: “I think women are going to have to abandon the traditional 50-50 everything-must-be-equal feminist mind-set and learn to value husbands and partners who are becoming more domesticated and supportive,” said Liza Mundy, author of the upcoming book “The Richer Sex: How the New Majority of Female Breadwinners Is Transforming Sex, Love and Family.”

Yep, that sounds great. I think perfect equality all the time is a pipe dream. But that doesn’t mean we can’t continue pushing toward that concept, all the time. It’s in the process of pushing toward that that we begin achieve new levels of enlightenment about how we relate to, respect, and interact with each other. And not just between men and women, but among women and men, respectively.

This is why we should drop-kick the term “reverse gender gap.” It’s alarmist, annoying, and sexist in its very syntax. It conjures up some kind of endless gender pendulum that will swing endlessly to extremes. Also, it’s disempowering to men. I know quite a few men and women partnered up with members of this new gender-norm-upending, breadwinning gaggle of femme fatales. I don’t think they see themselves as losers on the short end of the stick.

What we have here is the dawning of a new world of relationship dynamics. Instead of wringing our hands, let’s embrace it. As the article quotes Siobhan (Sam) Bennett, president of the Women’s Campaign Fund, “I see great opportunity that these high-value women will ask and gain the flexibility they need to have marriages and families — their lives will probably look different than what we’ve seen — but they will work for them.”

Exactly – flexibility. Innovation. New models of partnership. We aren’t giving young women or young men enough credit – many already are living creatively among varying dynamics of money, power, and shared responsibility. They’ve thrown out this notion of “the gender gap” with last year’s Snuggie.


34 thoughts on Fall Into the [Reverse Gender] Gap

  1. With regard to the emphasis on degrees, and the increase in breadwinner status vs. setbacks in sexual abuse, reproductive rights, etc. I think there is a tendency in the United States to equate “freedom” with “economic freedom.” The freedom to have money and spend it as you choose, in USian social politics is the most important factor in determining how free one is. Particularly on the right, where “freedom”, generally speaking, means “freedom from taxation.”

    Thus, increasing economic freedom is seen as important in the newsmedia, and setbacks in other areas are seen as unimportant because they don’t really relate to “freedom” as it’s understood in the USian sense. I think these articles are damaging in the sense that they contribute to the sense that, as long as you have money, or at least earning potential, you are certainly “free.”

  2. I think that’s a good point. It’s frustrating to see people point to statistics about education and employment and say, “See? women have it great in the US… no need for feminism at all!” I think there is certainly a relationship between economic freedom and broader social justice, but it’s not causitive.

  3. We live in a brave new world. I don’t understand the need to take several steps backwards out of fear. I think if the late period Gen Xer’s like me and the Millennials could define the debate, it’d go far to show how gender distinctions have changed.

    What I’m observing is backed up by the conduct and beliefs of my friends. None of it seems especially threatening. It’s just the nature of things these days. But there will always be someone who wants to sound an alarmist note, to say that changes have happened too fast, too soon. It’s easy to peddle fear, but more difficult to take stock of trends.

    I don’t think the available models have yet caught up to the current state of things, personally.

  4. ““I think women are going to have to abandon the traditional 50-50 everything-must-be-equal feminist mind-set and learn to value husbands and partners who are becoming more domesticated and supportive,” said Liza Mundy…”

    Feminism is not about equalization in every respect. Whoever thinks that feminism is about turning women into men and vice versa seriously misunderstands feminism and egalitarianism. It is about empowering women so that they can be seen and see themselves as individuals first and members of the opposite sex second. Further, it is also about eliminating absurd, unnecessary social interaction barriers between the sexes; men are not, in fact, from Mars, and women are not, in fact, from Venus.

    Feminism is not about forcing women to “act like men” or men to “act like women”. Such a compulsion is actually antithetical to feminism. Nor is it about abolishing gender relationships that some people rationally choose to maintain; it is only the mindless, irrational conformity to gender roles and the ramifications of the negative connotations of such roles that feminism opposes.

    In short, it is the idea that women are people as well.

    She reminds me of those silly people who think that egalitarianism is necessarily the same as making sure that A=B in every respect.

  5. Oh for fuck’s sake. More bullshit conflation of feminism and it’s gains with upper-class women and their lives. Notice the segue into “high-earning” women in the article? Apropros of nothing? Yeah. How else to get the digs in on those uppity broads with their edjumacation, right?

    Meanwhile, back in the less-lofty world of non-NYT readers, the numbers of women vs. men getting college degrees can be easily explained by *how much worse women with just a high school diploma* have it compared to their male counterparts—this article had nothing to say about that, did it? Nor did it have anything to say about how the majority of folks in the US don’t have a four-year degree. Illinois has around 30% of the population with a college degree; in the county I live in now, women are just under the total average for degrees in the state. But the county where I went to high school—a place the illustrious Lauren Bruce described on another thread months ago as resembling a set from “The Road”? A full 13% of women have four-year degrees.

    Having a degree does not mean that one is “high-earning”. Most of the US bears strikingly little resemblance to the tonier parts of Manhattan. For once, ONCE, I would love to see some goddamn media acknowledgement that there is NO “trickle-down” effect for feminism. That shit doesn’t work in the *political* economy any more than it does in the *financial* one.

    Trading Ward and June’s economic roles IS NOT PROGRESS. It’s just as regressive, and just as burdensome for the vast majority of the population that simply doesn’t earn enough to support a nonworking adult in the household.

    Classism. NYT haz it.

  6. Can you provide a link to a recent peer-reviewed publication providing support for the claim that women do not earn “as much as men for equal work?”

  7. Let’s not forget the reason more women are getting degrees than men are is extremely bloody simple: They have to. A woman in the U.S. needs a higher degree in order to make as much as a man with a lower degree. Combined with how the increased number of women pursuing college is making the applicant pool even more competitive for women than for men, and you have a lot of women pursuing higher education out of necessity, not because they feel empowered (even if they are — Michelle Bachmann wouldn’t be here to talk about how feminists are destroying America if it weren’t for women’s lib).

  8. Couple of conflicting data points here. The two I’ve heard are this:

    “Women who are single, childless, and between the ages of 22 and 30, earn 8 percent more than men”

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/09/01/129581758/

    AND

    “On average, to earn as much as men with a Bachelor’s degree, women must obtain a Doctoral degree.”
    http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/collegepayoff-summary.pdf

    The only way to resolve this is to conclude – on the whole, men are still out-earning women at each level of educational attainment. But if you restrict that to recent graduates, say of the last 5-8 years, women are, as a whole, doing better than men.

    It seems to me that in this day and age, the gender gap really kicks in once family and children crop up, because it is women who are expected to carry the brunt of that domestic labor. I manage a team of about 40, and there’s no way we could get away with paying men and women differently for the same work if we wanted to. And they’re all young, so family is not really a concern.

    But in an environment where women can’t put in those late-night project hours, need to shift back to part-time or even take time out of the workforce, I think that’s where you’ll see the discrepancy developing.

  9. La Lubu:
    HeyLled,howza’boutgettingthelledoutofyourassandgooglingtheUSBureauofLaborStatisticsonyourown,hmm?

    Why the hostility to a simple request? The BOL statistics I have seen do not break down the data in terms of “equal” work, it is done by years of experience, education level, etc. There are too many factors there to meaningfully conclude from that data that women are earning less for “equal” work.

  10. The Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce has a few recent studies (the college payoff paper linked above, the one on career clusters from last month) that go into the pay gap issue. I went to a briefing with Anthony Carnevale where he spoke about the career clusters paper and he pointed out that almost all the jobs that require only high school education are in male-dominated fields. So if these jobs are essentially closed off to most women, it would of course make sense for women to redirect into other fields instead of having to break down barriers in non-traditional jobs all the time. The problem is that almost all other high-paying jobs require degrees, which partially explains why women need BAs to earn as much as men with high school diplomas. And, those high-wage earners with high school diplomas – that’s not across the board, they are all concentrating in a few fields. You can see the talk he gave here. in any case, the Georgetown papers are pretty good and also address the issue of pay gap by race.

  11. Well, Lled, I guess it’s possible that women have superior educational attainments yet are performing worse than men on the job–that’s what you’re suggesting, isn’t it? But that’s not likely. First, in the USA almost all workers hold their jobs “at will” (La Lubu as a union electrician is an exception) meaning they can be fired with or without cause. So if a worker is underperforming her boss can fire her. And no, she can’t win a sex discrimination lawsuit if she deserved to be fired.

    Second, what you call “peer-reviewed” findings show that when a developing nation accepts women into its workforce, its GDP rises–meaning that, most likely, women are productive workers.

  12. I went to a briefing with Anthony Carnevale where he spoke about the career clusters paper and he pointed out that almost all the jobs that require only high school education are in male-dominated fields.

    I assume he was restricting his discussion to jobs that pay a living wage? Because what I immediately flashed on was things like “wait staff”, “child care worker”, “retail clerk”, “telemarketer”, “dry-cleaning/laundry worker”, “housekeeper/maid”…..all kinds of jobs that only require a high school (or less) education but are female-dominated. There’s actually very few jobs that only require a high school education that are male-dominated; basically, the trades, police and firefighters. The difference is those are well-paid jobs with benefits, unlike the female-dominated jobs (low pay and typically no-benefits).

  13. La Lubu, yes, he was speaking about “good jobs” – i.e. living wage and benefits. I assume that he is also limiting his discussion to jobs that are projected to grow in the next ten years. In general though, he’s really saying that the few “good jobs” that are out there now for people with only high school education, are really on the way out and soon all living wage jobs are going to require postsecondary training. Not necessarily BAs, but industry-recognized credentials. And, of course, the other issue is that the jobs you mentioned don’t pay the living wage and don’t offer benefits and that has to change.

  14. La Lubu: Because what I immediately flashed on was things like “wait staff”, “child care worker”, “retail clerk”, “telemarketer”, “dry-cleaning/laundry worker”, “housekeeper/maid”…..all kinds of jobs that only require a high school (or less) education but are female-dominated.

    Maybe we just live in different places (I’m from Midwest USA), but only child care worker and housekeeper register as female dominated to me. While women are primarily the servers in lower end restaurants, men typically get the cleaning jobs, including the bussing, dish washing, cooking, and food prep (my high school job, no lie, had Male and Female jobs on the application to ask which you would be ok doing, and the male jobs were all those. The female only were waitressing and hosting). Also, it depends on the type of food place; I’ve noticed that family owned places generally have equal genders waiting.

    Grocery stores are the same. You may see more women at the counters, but behind the scenes are all those men doing the trucking, lifting, cleaning, stocking, etc. Oh, and managing.

    All the telemarketers I’ve known have been male. Laundromats are…family run, from what I know, which usually means equal distribution. Honestly, I’m just not seeing where men are even lacking in jobs that don’t pay a living wage.

  15. By describing this “reverse gender gap” as a zero-sum game, it’s assuming that women want to have traditional masculine roles and that their taking them means that men have nowhere to go. That’s bullshit. It’s yet again making it clear that traditionally feminine pursuits, like child-rearing, teaching, nursing, home-making and other low- or non-paying jobs are second class jobs that men cannot and should not want to do. When will we start to revere all the different ways individuals can contribute to our society? When will I be able to proudly say that I’m a stay-at-home-mom, and not fear the reaction of “so you’re just a mother? We all need to embrace the roles available to all of us so that it can be clear to our daughters and sons that they can live fulfilling and happy lives doing many different jobs, both paid and unpaid. Women having the ability to be the breadwinner does not de-masculinize men. Society deciding that some jobs aren’t fit for men is what hurts us all.

  16. Let’s not forget the top rungs are still almost exclusively male- 83% of Congress, two-thirds of the Supreme Court, 97 percent of Fortune 500 CEOs, and so on. So let’s not wring our hands about the poor poor men. And even if someday we have – gasp!- a woman president or a majority female Supreme Court, well good. Maybe men can finally learn how it feels to be the minority for once. Women have had the short end for millenia.

  17. anna:
    Let’s not forget the top rungs are still almost exclusively male- 83% of Congress, two-thirds of the Supreme Court, 97 percent of Fortune 500 CEOs, and so on. So let’s not wring our hands about the poor poor men. And even if someday we have – gasp!- a woman president or a majority female Supreme Court, well good. Maybe men can finally learn how it feels to be the minority for once. Women have had the short end for millenia.

    If your attitude is “well, I won’t cry if men get theirs” it’s going to be a lot harder to enlist allies….51 vs 49% is a much tougher fight, than, say, 75% vs 25%.

  18. Maybe we just live in different places (I’m from Midwest USA), but only child care worker and housekeeper register as female dominated to me.

    Downstate Illinois. Urban, but not Chicago. I’ve heard that the waitstaff at high-end restaurants is mostly male, but at the average-price restaurants and fast-food joints women outnumber men by a wide margin (maybe that’s not true north of I-80). I also agree that the warehouse positions in retail tend to be male, but the shelf-stockers and checkout folks again—overwhelmingly female down here. Same with the telemarketing—about 80/20 female-to-male. Hotel housekeeping and maid-service companies are almost exclusively female. Dry cleaners and laundry services in my city aren’t mom-and-pops; they’re chain places—and again, mostly women. Temp office help is mostly women.

  19. I’d be really interested in seeing some numbers on weather or not women’s values are also being adjusted by the trend. As I understand it, the standard working model of “traditional dude” is wanting a wife who will stay home with the kids because the assumption is that a 2 parent working home is considered less desirable than one with a single working parent. As a child from a 2 working parent home who now makes more than both his parents, this idea is totally bonkers to me. I have always assumed if hell ever freezes over and I end up married, me and my spouse would continue to work. Does anybody know if there are studies out there that show women specifically wanting a “house husband” vs expecting both parties to work?

  20. I don’t understand the controversy. Claiming that now that men are earning less (young men that is) and getting less degrees is no longer important shows feminism as more of the same.

    We can just go back in time and see the same kind of talking but from the other side.
    The fact is men are struggling.

    I am mesmerized seen feminist supporting a traditional female work for men.
    Meaning all the same stuff that it use to mean for women like having to stay on an abusive relation just to survive.

    About top power positions is meaning in this regards because they represent almost 0 percent of the population. We need parity up there because they take the decisions, but is other problem. In fact they are there far more because they are late adults+ than men.

    I understand that if the vision of men struggling and females out-earning men becomes generalized discussions like the changes to the stimulus bill, affirmative action, will be taken from a different perspective. The realization of female economic power will change the discourse. Already have. It could also lead to men to men solidarity.

    I am not concern about the change. I want true equality. I want to accept reality.

    That’s ,my goal.

    Love
    Avida

    anna:
    Let’snotforgetthetoprungsarestillalmostexclusivelymale-83%ofCongress,two-thirdsoftheSupremeCourt,97percentofFortune500CEOs,andsoon.Solet’snotwringourhandsaboutthepoorpoormen.Andevenifsomedaywehave–gasp!-awomanpresidentoramajorityfemaleSupremeCourt,wellgood.Maybemencanfinallylearnhowitfeelstobetheminorityforonce.Womenhavehadtheshortendformillenia.

  21. What seems to be a real problem is that what is considered feminine is still seen as second rate. Male is still the default, female is treated as ‘less than.’ This dichotomy is cultural, and when you look at the numbers, it’s not surprising women are out performing men. Women have been taught that they have to work harder than men, and I think it says a lot that there are certain professions that are described as going ‘soft’ once women become the majority in those professions. The issue now lies with men stepping beyond the traditional bounds of masculinity. There’s also questions to ask about whether single sex environments are good or bad things.

  22. Heh. From what I’ve seen having women at the top of the heap doesn’t make any difference to the other 100%. Is the UK better off because their ruler is a woman? Is Germany better off than France because Merkel is a rich, racist, exploitive…. woman?

    New Zealand not so long ago had women in all the top government roles as well as a major corporation CEO (NZ doesn’t have very many big corps… calling it 20% female CEO power is probably accurate). Result for most women: no change. Aside from the indirect change of having a vaguely left-wing government who did actually try to help poor people and slightly mitigate the transfer of wealth to the extremely rich. But blaming that on the women at the top doesn’t really work IMO.

    I think perfect equality all the time is a pipe dream. But that doesn’t mean we can’t continue pushing toward that concept, all the time. … This is why we should drop-kick the term “reverse gender gap.” It’s alarmist, annoying, and sexist in its very syntax.

    I don’t see the connection. Should we not use the term because “gender gap” accurately encompasses discrimination against men? If so, I beg to differ – applying terms like that to men is contested, including by many feminists. Using “reverse” to specifically describe gender-based disadvantage faced by men feeds off and is useful precisely *because* of that controversy.

    One distinction I find helpful at times is between equalitarian feminists and pro-women feminists. The equalitarians will look at the places where women are dominating men and see a possible problem, where pro-women feminists will see a welcome advance.

    Especially at the moment I’d expect both to be more concerned about conditions for the other 99% rather than small changes in the composition of the 1%. Whether women are a better oppressor class is debatable, and perilously close to gender essentialism “women are inherently nicer”… yeah, right.

  23. number9: the odd thing is that I don’t think I’ve seen that much effort put into opening up existing jobs that only require a high school level of education to women. Partly that probably comes from the usual bias against blue collar jobs, but that’s not the only issue.

    What I have seen is attempts to get women the same pay for doing different jobs. For example, working as a garbage man is relatively well paid and almost all of them are male. It’s also not just unpleasant but one of the most dangerous jobs in first-world countries, which is both why it’s well-paid and why there are no women in it; people and the media tend to get rather more angry when a women dies horribly in an industrial accident than when a man does, which gives employers an incentive not to employ them. Solving this would require either making women dying more acceptable or making this kind of heavily male dominated work safer. Instead I’ve seen campaigns demanding that women who are doing much safer office cleaning work should get the same pay. It’s much more beneficial to women than equality.

  24. MozInOz: I don’t see the connection. Should we not use the term because “gender gap” accurately encompasses discrimination against men? If so, I beg to differ – applying terms like that to men is contested, including by many feminists. Using “reverse” to specifically describe gender-based disadvantage faced by men feeds off and is useful precisely *because* of that controversy.

    I don’t think the NYT is using “reverse gender gap” here in a deliberately subversive way, or “precisely *because* of that controversy,” as you say. I think the NYT and others use that term because they’re lazy and it’s a simple term that we lean on too much (see also “reverse racism”), as if there is this binary pendulum of equality. I’m not sure I’m with you on your distinction between types of feminists, but the point is there *is* no gender-based disadvantage here. The whole notion that for women to achieve means that it must be at the expense of men is ridiculous.

  25. Sound the alarm! The gender gap favouring men isn’t as big as it was! It’s a crisis! It’s discrimination against men!

  26. I think if we deconstruct the notion of a gender binary we will see that the intersectionality of all our oppressions are a result of patriarchal norms.

  27. This is why we should drop-kick the term “reverse gender gap.”

    This reveals the gynocentricism of contemporary feminism. Gender gaps that disadvantage women are to be protested and fought against, while gender gaps that disadvantage men are to be dismissed and ignored. It is entirely in character for the OP to not only deprecate the importance of the educational and earnings gap of young men, but to want to abolish the very language used to describe that imbalance.

    While the expression “reverse gender gap” is indeed “sexist in its very syntax”, it is so because it enforces the hegemonic cultural narrative is that males are universally advantaged over females. Therefore, any “gender gap” is automatically presumed to be an instance of female disadvantage, and the term “reverse” must be added to highlight an exception to the assumed balance of power.

    However, this narrative of universal female disadvantage is no longer true. There are many important ways that males are disadvantaged in contemporary society. Any honest evaluation of gender equality recognizes that gender gaps work both ways, and both must be addressed in a just society.

  28. wavevector: However, this narrative of universal female disadvantage is no longer true. There are many important ways that males are disadvantaged in contemporary society. Any honest evaluation of gender equality recognizes that gender gaps work both ways, and both must be addressed in a just society.

    Disagree with your first sentence — this is the common misconception, thanks, in part to lots of media attention of “new breadwinners” and the “reverse gender gap.” I think you just fell into the reverse gender gap there. But I agree more so with yours latter points here. The entire term “gender gap” is kind of simplistic and dumb. It just doesn’t accurately depict what’s really going on. While it’s not *always* universal female disadvantage, it is more often that than not. And “reversing” it isn’t an articulate way of explaining the male disadvantages that can also occur in society. My very problem with the term is that it makes “male” and “female” advantages mutually exclusive. That’s setting us all up to fail.

  29. Jessica: Disagree with your first sentence — this is the common misconception, thanks, in part to lots of media attention of “new breadwinners” and the “reverse gender gap.”

    When I said “this narrative of universal female disadvantage is no longer true”, I didn’t mean that men are uniformly disadvantaged, but that they sometimes are. The negation of “universally disadvantaged” is “sometimes advantaged”, not necessarily “always advantaged”. We may disagree on how much and how often women are advantaged with respect to men, but it appears that we agree that it occurs in some situations.

    Jessica: My very problem with the term is that it makes “male” and “female” advantages mutually exclusive. That’s setting us all up to fail.

    I agree with this, and would extend it to saying that male and female disadvantages are not mutually exclusive either. We can simultaneously entertain the problems that confront men without detracting from the problems that confront women. In the present context, we can acknowledge that our culture is not serving young men well in preparing them for the modern workplace, while still acknowledging that many women face obstacles in their career that few men encounter.

    My criticism of the original NYT piece is it poses the problem of relative male underperformance in education and work as a problem for women, when it should be regarded as a problem for the men who fall short of their potential. The primary concern should be for the well being of the men themselves, and only secondarily their utility to women as potential husbands.

  30. The problem is Bolick fails to consider whether she is that great a “deal” as a partner, she has high standards as well so it is only fair to put her value to the test. The men she values are the ones who have the pick of the liter, they can find women who will raise their families, what does Bolick really have to offer. I know it is shallow, but she set the starting point for this discussion with her harsh judgement of what it takes for someone to be an acceptable mate in her eyes.

    Its no wonder so many men opt out. What is the upside of someone like Bolick who only sees men as status symbols, and perhaps a cash machine. She has made it clear she doesn’t need men, so why would they want her.

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