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Our own Lauren on teen pregnancy and parenthood

Feministe founder Lauren Bruce has some fantastic things to say in this interview:

Which is why I like how you put that — that “young moms are encouraged to accept failure.” To many, pregnancy and parenthood is the punishment teen moms should bear for becoming parents before it’s socially acceptable. We’re set up to fail, and when some of us do fail, we are used as object lessons to scare our peers into not getting pregnant.

To me, that’s a terrible way of looking at a parent-child relationship. A child is NEVER a punishment. Parenthood is NOT punitive. Our relationship with our children is one of the most important and sacred relationships we will ever have. To mar that relationship with a wish for emotional trauma or psychological punishment because the mom in this equation violated some social contract is really, truly messed up.

What helped me when I was down and I felt like the world was on my shoulders was understanding that all of this was happening in a particular context, where not only young mothers face judgement and derision, but mothers in general do as well. In other words, it wasn’t about me. This wasn’t *my* failure, or a failure at all. Women have children in less than ideal circumstances ALL THE TIME and everything turns out fine for all involved. ALL THE TIME. All the time.

You know, in Western cultures, we give a lot of lip service to motherhood. We call motherhood special, we valorize our own mothers, we say it the most important job on earth, but in practice there’s very little out there that supports mothers as a class of people. As a culture, we can barely come to an agreement on whether children, the most vulnerable population among us, have the right to food, clean water, safe homes, and access to health care. As teenage parents, we are on the receiving end of some particularly nasty judgement because we happen to hit a lot of these buttons: we’re young, we tend to have less wealth, we tend to have less education. And because the system is set up against us, a lot of folks as satisfied just shaking their heads and telling us we should have kept our legs closed.

That’s not good enough. You do have rights. You have the right to work, to attend college, to live in safe neighborhoods, to access quality health care and nutrition for your children. Some jerk’s false perception of you as a promiscuous loser — whether this jerk be your parent, your uncle, your freshman English teacher, or some stranger — is not a valid reason to prevent you from accessing these resources. In cases like this, knowledge is power. Know what your rights are and how exactly to exercise them when someone is putting up roadblocks to keep you from reaching your goals. What someone else thinks about you is none of your business. Forget their judgement.

The whole thing is excellent, and you should check it out.

I’d also recommend The PushBack’s blog. It’s really incredible — it’s a project of the Massachusetts Alliance on Teen Pregnancy, but it represents moms nation-wide. And it’s written by and for teen parents. It represents a variety of experiences and viewpoints, but is across the board well-edited and thoughtful. And because it’s designed to support teen parents and to share experiences, it’s not a finger-wagging lecture about Babies Having Babies; it’s actually nuanced and interesting.


56 thoughts on Our own Lauren on teen pregnancy and parenthood

  1. I consider there to be a slight untruth in that post. When you say society can’t decide that a child should have such and such basic right, it sounds like other people are accorded said right by society, and children are not. But the fact is that society accords no one those rights, and it affects children more because adults are capable of earning those things through work and children aren’t.
    Regardless I would be very interested to see a society where everyone has all these supposed basic rights, given that we can’t even pay for our current entitlement programs, and that America is arguably the most wealth privileged nation in the world, I would love to see someone find a way to pay for all of these basic rights. I don’t think any society has ever managed to provide a solution as to where all this free stuff is going to come from.

  2. I have to say I’m guilty in blaming teen mothers for being irresponsible. I do it all that time. Articles like this remind me that I’m not being fair. Some women I have known, in their defense, have gotten pregnant at a very young age and called the child they gave birth to the best thing that ever happened to them.

    It’s just so easy to stigmatize other people for their perceived personal shortcomings. One of my relatives did get pregnant at sixteen. But I should probably take into account the fact that she had few positive role models, no family support, and probably not much education regarding contraception, too.

  3. Matt: Regardless I would be very interested to see a society where everyone has all these supposed basic rights, given that we can’t even pay for our current entitlement programs, and that America is arguably the most wealth privileged nation in the world, I would love to see someone find a way to pay for all of these basic rights. I don’t think any society has ever managed to provide a solution as to where all this free stuff is going to come from.

    We can pay for our entitlements, Matt. We just choose not to.

    We were certainly able to pay for them when Clinton was in office, before the Bush tax cuts and two ruinous wars.

  4. Matt: When you say society can’t decide that a child should have such and such basic right, it sounds like other people are accorded said right by society, and children are not. But the fact is that society accords no one those rights, and it affects children more because adults are capable of earning those things through work and children aren’t.

    Don’t know that it’s an “untruth” so much as very casually stated. My point, which is rambling and scattered, is that as a society we don’t even agree that children should have these rights even though it should be a moral imperative.

  5. Comrade Kevin: I have to say I’m guilty in blaming teen mothers for being irresponsible. I do it all that time. Articles like this remind me that I’m not being fair. Some women I have known, in their defense, have gotten pregnant at a very young age and called the child they gave birth to the best thing that ever happened to them.

    I can say that. A couple of my single mom friends can, too, typically because the jolt of finding out we were pregnant forced us to grow up and make more solid decisions about our lives in preparation for the baby. It also politicized us and made us more world-conscious. It’s not a universal truth among teen parents, but it’s common enough that pregnancy becomes a politically defining event for teen moms that it’s something we should capitalize on, especially if we want to see these young families become and stay stable and happy.

  6. Thought provoking interview!

    I think… and I could be wrong because all of this is based on my own observations… that a lot of the really serious stigmatization of teen parenthood (and a lot of the other parenthood/pregnancy stigmatizations) can be laid at the feet of the pro-life movement, and especially at the feet of the more rabid members of that movement. To them, a baby is a beautiful blessing from god… unless of course the person who happens to be pregnant is a member of an undesirable class, or isn’t married, or had sex because they liked it, or doesn’t really want kids and is considering abortion, or any other of a number of things/situations. Then that baby that was a “beautiful blessing from god” is now a “punishment” for those dirty dirty sluts who need to be forced to accept the consequences of their actions.

    Ugh. I will never be able to understand how some people in the pro-life movement can think that a baby is both a blessing and a punishment at the same time.

    And don’t forget that most of the people in the pro-life movement are only in favor of the idea of a baby, as long as it is still in the uterus. Once that baby has been born and needs shelter and medical attention and food, they don’t care nearly as much.

    I think that all of that makes pregnancy and motherhood more difficult for all women, but especially very young women and teenagers.

  7. I think it is a positive message that is well written. It is taken with the assumption that teen moms are fully willing to accept parenthood and do everything in their power to raise their child the best way they know how. Of course, we don’t live in a perfect world and not all teen moms are innocently making the best choices. There are a lot of moms out there that need a wakeup call, but I also suppose that can’t be blamed on just teens either. Additionally, there are a lot of things you just can’t do or access until you are legally an adult, so they have that running against them too.

    That aside, I totally agree that if a teen has a child and wants to the best for that child and their family unit, they should *not* be denied basic rights and equal opportunities. They deserve a chance to make the best of what they have and not be punished for wanting to do that.

  8. Lauren: I can say that. A couple of my single mom friends can, too, typically because the jolt of finding out we were pregnant forced us to grow up and make more solid decisions about our lives in preparation for the baby.

    My mom was 18 and a freshman in college when she had me. She thinks that it helped her become a lot more assertive. Women are socialized to be polite and not stand up for themselves, but you are expected to move mountains for your children. She feels like standing up for us helped her learn how to stand up for herself. (Though, honestly, I doubt she was ever very submissive. She’s a very strong person, stronger than I am in many ways.)

  9. I am a former teen mom. I got pregnant my senior year of high school when I was 18. I gave birth shortly after turning 19, a few months after I graduated. In all honesty, it’s been a struggle. I’ve been on public assistance since I was pregnant. I am in graduate school now. I can’t do this on my own. It sucks. Her dad was an abuser and is no longer involved. He was for a bit, but hardly did shit. Basically I’ve been a single mom since pregnancy.

    So, while I completely agree with empowering teen parents (because a lot of shaming about it made me hide my pregnancy. Who wants to be a pregnant teen? It’s such a shaming experience). I also want to point out that it CAN BE a struggle. Someone with an education and money has far more resources. My kid is 10 now and I have no college fund for her. I have hardly any savings and a huge amount of student loans. Things probably would have been different if I didn’t have a kid.
    I think my is better with a kid, but the financial part didn’t get part.

    So, I don’t suggest teen pregnancy on anyone. Because it’s hard. Way harder than one will ever know. But because a woman becomes pregnant as a teen doesn’t make her a piece of shit. Women CAN become educated and financially independent. I know plenty of other former teen moms who did.

  10. That was a good read. It’s not something I struggle with anymore, but like Comrade Kevin, I was once reflexively critical of young moms. I credit you, Lauren, for being such a positive influence and writing such sympathetic descriptions of your struggles.

    BTW, Congratulations!

  11. Also, I was on the pill when I got pregnant and a month after I had intercourse for the first time. I was not mature enough to have a kid, but I did. I grew up. I am grieving my 20s. I am currently 29 and never felt like I had a “young adulthood.” I became an addict/alcoholic (now 3 years sober) and currently in eating disorder treatment. It’s been a rough 10 years since I had my kid. My kid has made me get healthy and I realize the abuse from childhood and her dad made me become an addict and get an eating disorder. If I didn’t have my kid, I’m not sure if I’d be alive today.

  12. Heather: So, while I completely agree with empowering teen parents… I also want to point out that it CAN BE a struggle. Someone with an education and money has far more resources. My kid is 10 now and I have no college fund for her. I have hardly any savings and a huge amount of student loans. Things probably would have been different if I didn’t have a kid.
    I think my is better with a kid, but the financial part didn’t get part.

    Um, WORD. My finances are in tatters and I have student loans that I don’t know I’ll ever be able to pay. My son does have some college savings, but not much, and I basically live paycheck to paycheck. The point is not that it isn’t hard to be a teen parent — and I’d argue that parenting is hard, period, and that a lot of the work and struggle of parenting is hidden behind the structure of marriage — but that it isn’t necessarily a disaster. Like I said in the interview, women have children in less than ideal circumstances all the time, and it’s mostly, usually, fine.

    So, I don’t suggest teen pregnancy on anyone. Because it’s hard. Way harder than one will ever know. But because a woman becomes pregnant as a teen doesn’t make her a piece of shit. Women CAN become educated and financially independent. I know plenty of other former teen moms who did.

    Right. The point of The Pushback is to provide a place where the expectation is success and not failure. It’s meant to be inspirational, while also providing information on Personally, the always prevalent expectation that I was failing or would fail was so grating that it added an extra edge of anxiety not to fall prey to the stereotype to every thing I did — school, work, parenting, even the way I dressed. Thankfully I had mentors that tempered that anxiety with a little socio-political context. The truth is that the long-term impacts of teen parenthood are pretty benign in most cases, and are more likely attributed to extended economic and social disparities than they are the timing of parenthood.

    I’ve got this great article by Gretchen Sisson here (abstract) that I have permission to excerpt if anyone is interested. Let me know if anyone wants more info.

  13. It’s meant to be inspirational, while also providing information on

    Ha. Whoops. It’s meant to be inspirational, while also providing information on the latest research on the outcomes of teen pregnancy and parenthood.

  14. I love this interview – It echos so much of what I try to say! I write for The Pushback and also have my own website ‘prymface’ promoting respect for young mothers. I had my son at 17 and am now 32 but still regularly experience that awkward silence when I say how old my son is. There aren’t enough voices out there challenging the negative perception and discrimination towards young mothers, making it often seem to be socially acceptable to look down on them, because they are rarely in a position to stand up for themselves and be heard. By bringing young parents and former young parents together the reality of young parenthood can be shared and understood, rather than the narrow stereotypes promoting judgement and shame.

  15. As a pregnant teen who gave up her child for adoption due to no small share of shaming by pro-lifers (especially my parents) I can only echo the sentiment that Kara in particular mentioned and vehemently agree that it is so often seen as the price we have to pay. I gave up my child because I couldn’t imagine how I could pay my hospital bill. I had a full scholarship to college that covered room and board and would have allowed me to live in married student housing with my child. We would have struggled I am sure, but it was also possible we could have made it I just didn’t know that because no one told me there were resources out there for me. Because if you are a pregnant teen you have to pay. You either pay by giving up your child to someone “better” than you (read older, wealthier and more educated) or you can keep it and struggle and live in squalor. No one wants to help a teen mom and her baby come out ok because we have to be punished damn it. This was never more striking to me than when years later my younger brother got married at a young age to a girl who was barely older than I was when I had my child. She stopped taking the pill because it was “making her fat” and got pregnant on their honeymoon. They were woefully unprepared to become parents in any way shape or form, but they were married so then the pregnant 19 year old is totally fine and not at all questioned. No one suggested they should give their child up for adoption of course.

    I will note that I went on to obtain a graduate degree and got married and had kids. My husband made a great income and then we got divorced and all my savings were wiped out and my credit destroyed. And so here I am with a graduate degree and a professional job and I also just barely get by and my 9 year old doesn’t have a college fund either. I have struggled with post-partum depression and other issues. So I also agree with the point Lauren made that parenting is hard period. It can be harder for a teen mom but being older and married and more educated is no guarantee either. So why not just actually support mothers and children?!

  16. I agree about helping teen mom’s once they have their baby instead of criticizing them because doing that doesn’t help the mom, the baby or society.

    But I can’t agree with this part “To many, pregnancy and parenthood is the punishment teen moms should bear for becoming parents before it’s socially acceptable.”

    The reason it is socially unacceptable for for teenagers to have kids is not because of some traditional values but because of rational thinking. Traditionally women were encouraged to have kids and get married at a young age but that changed due to better education. A teenager doesn’t even have a fully developed brain to make rational decisions because their frontal lob isn’t fully matured at that age. This is why teens should be discouraged from having kids and it shouldn’t be something that is easily acceptable. Teens should be told that it’s not a smart idea for them to have kids at such a young age because they can’t make good decisions that parents are required to make in order to raise a child and also because they are probably not financially or emotionally stable at such a young age and having a kid only makes life hard for the parents and the new born.
    That being said, accidents do happen, people do get pregnant despite of using birth control, and when something like this happens people shouldn’t try to make the teen parents’ life any harder.
    many teens nows days think they just wont get pregnant even if they have sex without contraception or they assume the pull out method works, or they think having a baby isn’t really much work and things will work out at the end. Which is kind of what the article said, but in reality life would be much different(better) for those people if they hadn’t had kids at a young age.

    So teens shouldn’t be punished by society for having kids at a young age but they should all know how this may negatively impact their life.

  17. Ieshia: But I can’t agree with this part “To many, pregnancy and parenthood is the punishment teen moms should bear for becoming parents before it’s socially acceptable.”

    It’s the attitude that many, many people take toward teen moms, that pregnancy is the outcome of bad decisions, so the particular challenges of teen parenthood are the terms of their probation.

    The reason it is socially unacceptable for for teenagers to have kids is not because of some traditional values but because of rational thinking.

    It’s true that teens are not finished growing and developing cognitively, but human beings tend to experience this growth up to about the age of 25, at which point it’s entirely socially acceptable to be a mother provided certain other bullet points (pertaining to weath and socio-economic status) are also met. Saying that it’s common sense to discourage teens from getting pregnant is limited — it doesn’t take into account the dozens of reasons that a teen may want to carry out a pregnancy and become parents despite the challenges, and it discounts the various reasons that our culture discourages reproduction in a variety of other categories of people, which also pertains to wealth, socio-economic status, and categories like race, immigration status, age, and ability. It also ignores the research on the ground, research that shows that the relative outcomes for teen parents and their kids are far more reliant on their circumstances to begin with, whether they were poor, expected to finish high school and complete college, or pursue a career. If these were expectations from the beginning and the teens had resources to draw on, teen parents are largely able to achieve these results despite the relative challenges, thus living what we typically consider a successful middle-class life regardless of their timing when they became pregnant.

  18. I know several former teen moms who are 35 year old grandmothers, so the situation has the potential to perpetuate itself, creating the difficult circumstances that many teen parents start out with. I also know maybe a dozen children of teen moms who are being raised by their grandparents, and in some cases, their great grandparents, a task they did not ask for. I also know teenage moms with two and three children, which only compounds the difficulties and often leads to responsibility for the children falling on their elders. The stresses associated with teen parenthood and its prevalence here are the primary reason the US has by far the highest level of child death by physical abuse of any industrialized nation. Early parenthood is the most effective path to lifelong poverty and lack of education. There are a lot of good reasons why teenage pregnancy should not be encouraged, but I’m guessing most of ya’ll already know that.

    I don’t think old people yammering at kids about why they should avoid pregnancy is very effective, which is why I’m so proud of my daughter who spent several years working with Teen Council, a program run by Planned Parenthood. Peer based sex education is a really powerful tool, because the knowledge provided by people you identify with makes it easier for teenagers to make their own informed choices. Education & choices give more control over your own life.

    Choosing to be a parent is a good thing, accidentally becoming a single one, not so much. I really appreciate any number of you sharing your stories of how you’ve managed to find the positive in that situation, and having a child you love and treasure is absolutely a positive outcome, I understand how that mitigates the challenges you face. Still, I find I nod my head when Ieshia says “teens shouldn’t be punished by society for having kids at a young age but they should all know how this may negatively impact their life.”

    +1 for choosing to fund those entitlements too, access to free college education would be one of the greatest things this nation could do.

  19. ” it doesn’t take into account the dozens of reasons that a teen may want to carry out a pregnancy and become parents despite the challenges”

    But a teen is not mentally mature enough to make a rational decision about whether he/she should have a kid.

  20. Thanks for posting this – I used to work for a peer education program in which teen moms and dads went into Austin area high schools and middle schools to tell their own stories and encourage other students to delay having children. Although I no longer work for the program, I keep in touch with many of the parents and I’m so inspired by them. Their stories about getting nasty comments and harsh judgments infuriated me. I’ve sent the Pushback out to the group – I’m glad there’s a site where young parents can tell their stories and give “straight talk”, as my program called it.

  21. “Then perhaps we should forcibly remove the decision to be parents from women until they hit a socially acceptable benchmark of development, or protect their children from their irresponsibility by putting them in responsible homes when they are born.”

    Not “socially acceptable” but till they are physically and mentally matured.

  22. To me, that’s a terrible way of looking at a parent-child relationship. A child is NEVER a punishment. Parenthood is NOT punitive.

    THIS. So hard. It’s beyond twisted that a child is viewed as some sort of punishment.

  23. Off White: I know several former teen moms who are 35 year old grandmothers, so the situation has the potential to perpetuate itself, creating the difficult circumstances that many teen parents start out with. I also know maybe a dozen children of teen moms who are being raised by their grandparents, and in some cases, their great grandparents, a task they did not ask for. I also know teenage moms with two and three children, which only compounds the difficulties and often leads to responsibility for the children falling on their elders. The stresses associated with teen parenthood and its prevalence here are the primary reason the US has by far the highest level of child death by physical abuse of any industrialized nation. Early parenthood is the most effective path to lifelong poverty and lack of education. There are a lot of good reasons why teenage pregnancy should not be encouraged, but I’m guessing most of ya’ll already know that.

    This is a complicated social issue and I don’t mean to minimize the circumstances you outline here because they are very real. However, like I say in the interview I often return to this thought: “the only reason having kids young is ‘bad’ is because the social stigma and economic disadvantages are quite strong, and mutually reinforcing.” There are pros and cons in having children young and in delaying childbirth, but most of the reasons we encourage young people to delay childbirth are because the structural supports we have for parents are so weak overall. We take this lack of structural support for parents as normative, which is why the stigma (and the odds) against young parents is so strong. So my question then — because while some teen pregnancy is preventable, some is also inevitable — what do we do to support the teens who believe that becoming parents is preferable to delaying childbirth? What do we have to do to adequately provide structural support for mothers of any background become successful?

    Ultimately the social problem of teen pregnancy is the effects that it has on their children. Again, the research shows that if the structure is there that the relative effects of teen pregnancy are benign for mother and child alike. If the support structure is not there to begin with, the outcomes of teen pregnancy are poor for mother and child alike. My logical conclusion then is that to reduce the ill effects of teen pregnancy we have to commit to supporting young people period, eradicate poverty and the ill effects of poverty, provide free college education, continue to provide compulsory elementary and secondary education, and have strong economies that people can rely on to support their families, among other various crunchy, liberal things that scaffold unstable communities to make them stronger.

    It’s late and I’m tired, so I can’t devote all my energy into writing a thesis about this, but it’s not enough to say, “Teen parents can never rationally choose to parent well, never,” and leave it at that. This is an issue that must be addressed because young and single parenthood is and has always been a part of our society. You can’t make teen parents who don’t want to be responsible choose the best outcomes for their kids, but, to mangle a metaphor, you can try to make sure there’s a stream nearby so that when you lead the horse to water it has something to drink.

  24. Ieshia: Not“sociallyacceptable”buttilltheyarephysicallyandmentallymatured.

    With all due respect, this attitude is irrevocably fucked up.

  25. Love this interview! Thanks for posting!

    I used to be an ally participant on Girlmom.com.

    One of the commenters pointed out that hostility toward teen moms and how sacred the mother / child bond is can be laid at the feet of the pro-life movement. Interestingly enough, I am an active member of Medical Students for Choice, and plan on being an abortion provider soon. I am also a mother.

    When I was asked why I joined medical students for choice, I gave almost an identical answer than the quote from the original post. Children are so sacred – they are not a punishment for having sex and being fertile. No one should be forced to become a parent. It is too important a relationship.

    Love this post and I have been loving the posts this week.

  26. Right, Ieshia, so of course all teens develop at the same rate and are inevitably immature and incapable of deciding to have or caring properly for their children in particular, because hormones. None of them will be good parents, and they are a monolith always without allparenting structures or other forms of support. That kind of manipulation of science to justify social attitudes towards circumstances like this really makes me angry. Teens are people, too, and can make good decisions, and be tough and brave, and, hey, sometimes make mistakes and make the best of them.

    Anyway, what I had meant to say was: what a lovely interview, Lauren. I’m glad to know someone whose mind works in the way yours does.

  27. Ieshia:

    My mother was a teenage mother and it made her more fun-loving, more flexible, more practical, more understanding, and more loving. I lived in a home free of abuse, and full of love. I knew I was *wanted*, that my aunt and grandma both offered to raise me, that people offered to adopt me, and my mom could have chosen not to have a baby, but she *wanted* me, and everyday actively chose to share her life with *me*.

    My mom was already more mature than most people–she’d survived a deadly car accident and almost had her arm amputated. She was still in physical therapy when she found out she was pregnant. Since having me, she’s found the love of her life, my adopted father, whom she just celebrated 21 years of marriage with. She obtained a Bachelor’s Degree, and so have I. So take your attitudes about who is and who is not allowed to have children and shove them up your smug ass. My mother and I are fucking people, not talking points of academia.

  28. Deciding to have a kid in the face of all the people telling you you’re stupid and immature and incapable and ruining your life must take some real strength of character and love – exactly the kinds of qualities anyone would want in a parent.

  29. I think the answer depends on how we define teenage pregnancy:

    an 18/19 year old college freshman is not the same thing than a 15/16 year old high school student living at mum and dads

    the first one is certainly young but more or less a grown woman who will perhaps face hardship but should be able with some help to turn out just fine with her kid and i wouldn’t really define it as teenage pregnancy after all not so long ago that was the normal age for woman to start a family.

    if we are talking about the second I’m not sure a 15year old will be capable of appraising the situation fully and if the young mom and her baby will turn out all right even with lots of material help available. I absolutely can’t imagine a 15 year old alone or with the 16year old baby daddy and living a grown mature life in the best interest of the baby while getting on with their education.

  30. But a teen is not mentally mature enough to make a rational decision about whether he/she should have a kid.

    And yet….we still expect teens to rationally choose their course of study in high school that will prepare them for the career we expect them to have rationally chosen. Does it work sometimes? Sure. It also leaves many realizing that after graduation, they are totally unprepared for college, or that they didn’t really want to study what they thought they did back at the age of fourteen when they got locked into a “track”, and are now looking down the barrel of having to start over/form a 5-or-6 year Bachelor’s degree program, on a financial aid system that doesn’t allow for that many years.

    Just sayin’…..pregnancy isn’t the only wrench that gets regularly thrown into a young woman’s works. Look, “maturing” is not a state of being. It’s a dynamic process. You grow as you go. The teen moms I knew in high school were, frankly, more mature than those of us who weren’t…..and it was because of their parenthood. Why is that so controversial to say? We say it all the time about young veterans; how they are more mature than their peers. If you don’t think the negative messaging about and towards teen mothers has everything to do with sexism and toxic views of women’s sexuality, you aren’t paying attention.

    I’m an unwed mother, but an older one. So, while I had many challenges in common with my teen mom counterparts, one challenge I didn’t have was the constant societal undermining of my parenting that teen moms routinely experience. It was all about age, not about “stability” or any of the catchphrases designed to mask feelings about young parenthood. (“stability”. Hah! Sure would like to see some of that in the Rust Belt!)

    But no….any mention of how teen mothers need support—actual, structural support and not just lip service, and immediate people assume that the message isn’t “give mothers the support they need” but “young women should all go out and get pregnant!! It’s FUN!!” FFS.

  31. La Lubu: But a teen is not mentally mature enough to make a rational decision about whether he/she should have a kid.

    And yet….we still expect teens to rationally choose their course of study in high school that will prepare them for the career we expect them to have rationally chosen. Does it work sometimes? Sure. It also leaves many realizing that after graduation, they are totally unprepared for college, or that they didn’t really want to study what they thought they did back at the age of fourteen when they got locked into a “track”, and are now looking down the barrel of having to start over/form a 5-or-6 year Bachelor’s degree program, on a financial aid system that doesn’t allow for that many years.

    Just sayin’…..pregnancy isn’t the only wrench that gets regularly thrown into a young woman’s works.

    Absolutely. And I think it’s extremely important to note that the links above that are critical of Iesha’s “rational/irrational” argument document the history of taking children away from teen mothers and having the state decide which people are allowed to have children and which aren’t. It’s a nasty, nasty, shameful history, and one that should be researched diligently before cavalierly tossing out suggestions that breaking up families because we don’t like the looks of them is a totally cool way of dealing with teen parenthood.

  32. I. . .wow. No one here is saying that it’s ideal for teenagers to have children, Ieshia. However, I’m not sure how setting up teen mothers to fail helps anyone.

    I think Lauren’s absolutely right–teen mothers need support, not a peanut gallery bathing in schadenfreude and sanctimony.

  33. wasabi: It can be harder for a teen mom but being older and married and more educated is no guarantee either. So why not just actually support mothers and children?!

    THIS.

    Myself and several other 20-30 something, married moms get/got a ton of passive-aggressive comments about how unfair or burdensome maternity leaves are, even though none of us took much time off and there was plenty of time to plan for the leaves, unlike situations of other co-workers who took unexpected weeks/months to deal with other family emergencies. Still, our dear leader felt free to say “no more pregnant women” in a staff meeting, whereas saying “no more deaths” or “no more family members with cancer,” etc. would probably have been seen as inappropriate.

    This is very different than the shame and stigma that teen moms face, but it still sucks.

  34. Glad that the comment thread has turned to refuting Ieshia’s obnoxious arguments over night. Eyuck.

    @Ieshia: You do realize that your same arguments are used to take children away from people for disabilities, right? The argument that they can’t possibly know what’s in the best interest of or provide decent care for their child, even if they have a support system in place? It’s really damn hard to undermine someone’s autonomy in that way (“you should not be allowed to have children”) without also undermining their personhood. And that in general is a bad fucking idea. (And, now that I re-read them, they bear a striking resemblance to arguments used against . . . various other marginalized groups. Which is to say: That should be a warning sign to you that you’re saying something fucked up.)

    @ Chally: Ditto. I’m not so far away from being a teen that I don’t remember the huge scale of maturity, strength, thoughtfulness and so on present in high school and the first years of college — much like the variety present in every other stage of life.

  35. A point of clarification — I don’t think that teens or people with disabilities should only be allowed to parent if they have a support system in place, I think that even in the best of circumstances concern trolls will insist they can’t be good parents or make their own decisions to have children. I’m thinking of a recent case in England where a young mother with disabilities had her child taken from her, regardless of the fact that she was married to a supportive spouse and (I think) had support from her family to raise the baby. Sadly I cannot call it to mind right at this moment.

  36. I think it’s also worth noting (and noting, and noting) that folks tend to be quite supportive of teen mothers *when they are married*. All those platitudes about maturity, stability, patience, “finding oneself” or whateverthefuck magically disappear when there’s a man involved, even though he’s usually around the same age (and thus, has the same “stability” and such that she has). Somehow, throwing marriage, and *its additional challenges, that go far and beyond the challenges of simply raising a child* is supposed to be so much easier for a teenage woman. You know, because those of us far beyond our teen years find sexist double standards, doing the emotional work of relationships, stretching ourselves physically and mentally to accommodate the multiple simultaneous responsibilities in a society that ignores that we *have* those responsibilities while *all the while* insuring that our needs come last *and* looking good while we’re slogging through all this because Maude help us if we “let ourselves go”…..so gotdamn easy.

    Yeah. Teen moms are alluvasudden A-OK as long as they have to care for a husband along with a child.

  37. Jane: I’m running a search on that case right now. I’ll post a link on that one when I find it. If I recall correctly, the child was removed because the mother had ADD/ADHD. I can’t recall whether the father had it too. I remember being worried, because I have ADD myself, and I also have a friend who has it, and married a man with it. Her parents weren’t too enthusiastic about the marriage, as I recall. I hope there won’t be a firestorm when she has kids. (I’ve already decided that kids are off the table as far as I’m concerned. I’m probably too old to have kids anyway, even though I’m younger than my mother was when she had me.)

  38. Yeah.TeenmomsarealluvasuddenA-OKaslongastheyhavetocareforahusbandalongwithachild.

    Teenage husband doesn’t make it all better, but single mothering is hard. How do we hold the men accountable and support the moms? Social pressure for inappropriate marriages is definitely not the answer. How many of you wish you were married to whoever you were involved with when you were 16? (note: I’m not implying anything about gender when I say “married”) Being a parent can be a tough row to hoe, and it can be easier with a partner to share the work, but I’d agree that weddings, shotgun or otherwise, are not a panacea.

    Sometimes the fathers are teenagers themselves, but sometimes they’re creepy 20somethings or older. Okay, creepy is too much a blanket statement, but I know some that wear that moniker well. I don’t think marriage makes it all good, but I don’t think drive-by sperm donors are any better. If anything I think its the men who should have their fertility curtailed, their judgement and maturity often lags far behind the women. Why can’t we get money for that kind of research? (yeah, rhetorical question).

    I’m still stumping for education+choices+support, and the support part probably involves the most revision of people’s biases and ignorance.

  39. Off White: Teenage husband doesn’t make it all better, but single mothering is hard.

    I’m going to throw it out there and say that parenting is hard. I’ve been a single teen parent of one, a single 20-something parent of one, a married parent of one, and now a married parent of two, and apart from the financial issues which would have been present despite my parenting status (if mitigated), I honestly did not experience a vast difference in difficulty in any of these situations.

    Being a parent is hard because we have culturally unrealistic expectations of what parents do for their children (“If I don’t feed my baby solid foods at the right time, will she still get into Harvard?”). We encourage a certain amount of unproductive anxiety in parents, period, and bathe non-normative parents in extra dour expectations of failure.

    Regardless, if the pursuit of motherhood is happening inside of the normative married, white, middle-class, college-educated ideal it’s good, even sweet and encouraged, and we can accept that most moms are good mothers or “good enough” mothers, and all is well thanks to the facade of responsible parenting norms masquerading as a guaranteed thing for parents and children alike. If the pursuit of motherhood is happening outside of those norms, it’s amoral and defective. I’m baffled why understanding this context is so radical. Or why we need to disbelieve research that shows us almost across the board that the nuclear family is just not necessary to raise happy, well-adjusted children so we might continue to maximize negative stereotypes of non-normative parents.

    That said, Off White:

    “I really appreciate any number of you sharing your stories of how you’ve managed to find the positive in that situation, and having a child you love and treasure is absolutely a positive outcome, I understand how that mitigates the challenges you face.”

    Defining the love and bond that teen parents have for their children as a “mitigating circumstance” and a “positive outcome” is some mighty small beans. Them’s some low expectations.

  40. Defining the love and bond that teen parents have for their children as a “mitigating circumstance” and a “positive outcome” is some mighty small beans. Them’s some low expectations.

    Seriously.

  41. Lauren, if you really experienced no difference in difficulty between being a single teen parent and an older partnered one, then you might be a bit of an anomaly. Either you had a lot of support as a teen, your partner is a slacker, or most likely, you’re a powerful and confident individual with a lot of emotional skills. Not everyone should be expected to live up to some ideal of the supermom who’ll fight for justice and equality with a 6 month old on her hip while getting an A in her 11th grade Algebra II class. Most of the teen parents in my experience (maybe only a dozen, not a large sample) have experienced significant difficulties in their lives as a result of premature parenthood. While its harder on those with fewer resources, its not a walk in the park for the white middle class ones either.

    I absolutely agree that we need to provide more effective support for teen parents, have you got any suggestions how to do that? I think you’re in a better position to know what to do than I am. Can I ask you for a reading list, who is writing on the subject? Geoffrey Canada’s education work would seem to have some overlap, inasmuch as he’s looking at involving the whole family at an early age, but he seems to triage the potential of the younger parents for the sake of setting their children on a different path. Maybe that’s part of what has to happen, growing children of teen parents into teenagers who don’t become parents themselves. What are your thoughts and wishes for how things will be for your own children? What kind of public programs would help that come true?

    You’re right that cultural expectations of what parents should be doing is way out of whack. I think part of it is marketing, there are just so many things for you to buy to do it right, eh? Part of it might be the increasing age of those white normative middle class couples and the anxieties they bring. Maybe the overarching political shift from the group to the individual reinforces the notion that child rearing rests solely on the shoulders of the genetic parents rather than all of us. All that individual responsibility mumbo jumbo certainly gets in the way of finding solutions to making young parents lives better.

    I think we’ve made progress in accepting parenthood that’s outside the normative nuclear family “ideal”. Nowhere near done with the topic of course, but there is a far greater acceptance of a wide range of arrangements than there was when I was in my teens. Granted, I live in a west coast small lefty liberal city, and things have not shifted as much in the rural midwestern communities my parents grew up in, but there has been incremental change, and I’m hopeful that it will continue and accelerate. Its a tremendous battle to change the attitudes of my grandparents, but their time is gone, and from what I see my children live in a broader more socially accepting society than the one I grew up in. I don’t suggest that everything is hunky dory, but there is movement in the right direction, and social change seldom happens in dramatic leaps, its often more glacial, but equally transformative.

    I didn’t mean to imply low expectations, I was trying to make the point that while teen parenthood presents substantial challenges and difficulties, that love and bond (most) parents have for their children offsets the negative impacts of their situation. That’s not small beans at all, teen parenthood is not an unmitigated disaster, but you can’t argue that its all balloons and butterflies either. Parenting can be hard, but it continues to be one of the most rewarding and awesome things in my life, and I sure don’t mean to suggest its anything less than that for someone else just because they’re under 20.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my words and dispute my points, pushing me to consider things, I really appreciate it. I hadn’t really thought about the idea that some people consider teen parenthood the punishment for “bad behavior” and the way this attitude impedes constructive solutions, and it will affect the way I hear and respond to the greater conversation. Like I say, change happens in small increments, but it happens nonetheless, even in middle age middle class (long winded) white guys like me.

  42. If I recall correctly, the child was removed because the mother had ADD/ADHD. I can’t recall whether the father had it too.

    …whut? Seriously? ADD/ADHD, is, at the very worst, a mild to moderate disability, with an extremely low danger factor. Are you fucking kidding me? I can’t imagine a circumstance where that alone would be grounds from removing a child, let alone one from a two-parent home with a social support network.

    When you said “disability” I was assuming something with a lot of prejudice, like mental retardation/developmental disability or a moderate/severe physical disability/impairment, not a learning disability.

  43. Off White: Lauren, if you really experienced no difference in difficulty between being a single teen parent and an older partnered one, then you might be a bit of an anomaly. Either you had a lot of support as a teen, your partner is a slacker, or most likely, you’re a powerful and confident individual with a lot of emotional skills.

    I don’t want to imply that it’s been easy, I’m just saying it’s all been relatively difficult. The financial issues have easily been the worst of it, along with the slog and the struggle of always, ALWAYS being broke. You think it’s bad enough when you have little kids, but big kids are expensive. I did have a lot of help from my parents — this being my primary financial support structure after the ability to get student loans — for babysitting and making ends meet.

    [I guess one of the missing parts of this discussion that you’ve pointed out is how our (teen parents’) parents feel obligated to help and what kind of personal and financial strain this puts on them, especially when grandparents end up taking on the role of primary caregiver after they thought they’d be done raising children. On the one hand I have always felt anxiety over my lack of independence, while on the other hand knowing that this perhaps unrealistic expectation of total independence is cultural.]

    Anyway, in this economy, I can’t be convinced that I’d be any better off if I’d chosen another path. Maybe I’d have more education, but that would mean more student loans. Maybe I’d have traveled more, but I’d assume I’d have larger credit card debt (which I’ve been able to avoid almost completely, knock on wood). Just some examples. There are pros and cons to having chosen this life, but as with any life, it’s all speculation as to what might have been.

  44. People who don’t like the idea of social support programs don’t like teen parents because to help them have adequate resources to parent can burden the tax load. There has been some research on the fact that among women who do not make it through college and have overall lower income, the tax contributions were actually higher in women who started parenting as teens, even after taking out the money they used from government support, due to women who wait til marriage droping out of the workforce during some of the parenting years.

    “Our results suggest that much of the “concern” that has been registered regarding teenage childbearing is misplaced, at least based on its consequences for the subsequent educational and economic attainment of teen mothers. In particular, our estimates imply that the “poor” outcomes attained by such women cannot be attributed, in a causal sense, primarily to their decision to begin their childbearing at an early age. Rather, it appears that these outcomes are more the result of social and economic circumstances than they are the result of the early childbearing of these women. Furthermore, our estimates suggest that simply delaying their childbearing would not greatly enhance their educational attainment or subsequent earnings or affect their family structure… For most outcomes, the adverse consequences of early childbearing are short-lived. For annual hours of work and earnings, we find that a teen mother would have lower levels of each at older ages if they had delayed their childbearing (emphasis mine).”

    ““Teen motherhood does not appear to increase the utilization of various forms of public assistance as suggested by earlier studies” such as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, Food Stamps, and Medicaid, they noted. While teenage mothers were more likely to receive public assistance in teen years, they were less likely than their similarly disadvantaged counterparts who delayed motherhood to receive assistance in their early 20s and thereafter.

    As they aged into their 20s and 30s, former teen mothers also received more financial support from partners, were less likely to live in poverty, had equal education achievement, were more successful in employment, and earned considerably more money than similarly situated women who waited until their 20s to become mothers. “Forcing teen mothers to postpone their childbearing” would mean they would “actually end up doing less well in the labor market than if they had been able to follow their preferred life cycle plan,” Hotz et al. found.”

    http://www.youthfacts.org/teenmoth.html

    The idea that women who are struggling academically and know they won’t make it through college will be benefitted by waiting three years is really a misplaced idea. When you measure women who are doing well academically, have an in tact family structure, and face an unplanned pregnancy with their peers, you find that their outcomes are not so different. Women who were college bound and have adequate support, tend to still get their education and make it.

  45. Thanks for the link Rox.

    Lauren, no kidding about the costs of older children. At the outer extremity of that situation, one of my best friends has moved back in with his parents. He’s 52, and his older brother lives with them too. The kids aren’t caring for their aging parents either, its more a matter of the elders helping out with some serious addiction issues. Here’s hoping we all dodge that one in our futures.

    I did mention something about the burdens on people raising their grandchildren and great grandchildren, but on a little more reflection I think these are also part of the things that can make it work. I’ve seen it work out badly, but that’s often due to other factors than just the fact of the child. As Rox points out, the difficulties and challenges teen parents face are not necessarily due to parenthood per se, but rather the social and economic circumstances they’re already in. The need for support for some of the teen mom’s I’ve known really began back when they were 3, not 13. Blaming the poor is all the rage in some political circles, child as “punishment” for teen pregnancy dovetails nicely with that world view.

    I think extended families have been involved in child rearing for most of human history, and really that “normative” nuclear family idealized in the 50’s & 60’s is really the abnormal situation. I also think biology is a little overrated, the family you choose is at least as important as the one you’re born into, and “extended family” extends much farther than just blood.

  46. Off White, if you send me an email (find me in the “About” page up top), I’ll send you some resources if you’re still interested.

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