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Dealbreaker: He Has An Asian Fetish

Jill

Asian woman giving the finger

Love this piece by Lena Chen:

Though I could excuse his penchant for cultural appropriation, I couldn’t overlook his peculiar dating history. All of his exes, I soon learned, were Asian. A handful of data points aren’t enough to constitute a trend, but even my 18-year-old self realized that there was a very low statistical probability that this could have unfolded in an arbitrary or unconscious fashion. Pierre, who didn’t exhibit much self-awareness to begin with, claimed that his dating disposition could be explained by the qualities he sought in a partner. Asian girls just happened to be more likely to possess his preferred traits: According to him, we weren’t nearly as loud, crass, promiscuous, or out of shape as white women.

Luckily for Pierre, my dating history was beginning to exhibit a pattern, too. In fact, Pierre was emblematic of the spectacularly bad taste in men I’d cultivated in my young adulthood. Prior to meeting my now-boyfriend of three years (my fluke success story), I dated several serial cheaters, at least one confirmed homophobe, and way too many Asian fetishists to count. I cringe at the memory of each of these illustrious gentlemen, but years later, it’s the latter group that continues to make my skin crawl. An enthusiasm for Asian folks might not seem so bad, especially next to an irrational hatred of gay people. But my personal experience has taught me that even “positive” stereotypes are frustratingly reductive.

Though Pierre clearly meant what he said about “white women” as some sort of compliment, I was far from flattered. Actually, I was confused. At age 18, I shared more in common with the flighty, unkempt women of Pierre’s nightmares than I did with his geisha girl fantasy. I was, in fact, the very embodiment of all of the things he supposedly hated—loud, crass, promiscuous, and out of shape. Somehow, my race managed to obscure all of these qualities. There are many faults for which I administer free passes (timeliness and hygiene, to name two), but I’m rarely capable of overlooking generalizations about my race, no matter how positive. My heritage, though a part of my identity, hardly says much about me as a romantic partner.

45 thoughts on Dealbreaker: He Has An Asian Fetish

  1. Ugh…this is one of the things I was thinking of writing on but didn’t get around to it. Otaku culture in the US is getting completely out of hand. If one more person starts talking about how “cool” it must be that I married an AJA or asks whether M [insert random traditional, frequently sexist practice they’ve seen in some anime] or invites themselves over to try our kotatsu (its happened on several occassions-with strangers), I will commit murder. And it will be justified.

    Of course I only see the fetishization tangentially and as it relates to a dude, so meh.

  2. Have a friend like this.. drives me nuts. Haven’t really found a way to properly call out the behaviour yet.

    In fact, at first I thought maybe the writer was talking about my friend.. these are some of the qualities that he’s talked about that Asian women seem to represent for him.

    How about looking at women individually huh?

  3. My college roommate (a white woman) did this with black men, and it always creeped me out. You’re not dating a race, you’re dating individuals.

    She eventually hooked up with a black man who fetishized white women in the same way she fetishized black men, so they were made for each other, really.

  4. That’s creepy. Just creepy. I know YKINMK but I feel like doesn’t apply when your kink is a certain ethnicity.

    I know a few peop who objectify the “exotic” but only one person who actively goes out of their way to date only people of one race and that’s a woman though i’m not sure what would be worse: trying to justify it as in the article or not trying to justify it at all…

  5. I think we all have a “type”, or maybe multiple “types”. For example, I tend to be attracted to women who are very tall, small breasted, and thin. Even though I consider myself a very self-aware person, I’ve never been able to rationally explain why I find this particular look so appealing.

    But I guess unlike this situation, I’ve never made assumptions of personality. The physical is one thing, but the mind and the intellect are the real dealbreakers for me. I want to be with someone who is intelligent and interesting. And that is more important than whomever I might be viscerally attracted to at first glance.

  6. zuzu: She eventually hooked up with a black man who fetishized white women in the same way she fetishized black men, so they were made for each other, really.

    HAH!…Dammit. I almost spit out my burger.

  7. Going with what Comrade Kevin points out, a physical characteristic that one is drawn to is a bit different than assuming personality based on race.

    I’d have less of a problem with someone saying “I like Asian women because I find dark shiny hair sexy” or “I love Irish guys because I think red hair and freckles is hot” than to say “I like Asian women because they are more docile than white women” or “I like Irish guys because I think a real man should be able to drink me under the table” – both the latter statements are A) not universal and B) make some pretty gross assumptions about gender expectations. The former statements, while not universal, are probably more accurate generalizations and don’t make assumptions to how one should *act* based on their race or perceived culture.

    Of course to the two first people I’d be tempted to say “Okay but you can’t build a life on shiny hair and/or freckles.”

  8. Andie:
    Of course to the two first people I’d be tempted to say “Okay but you can’t build a life on shiny hair and/or freckles.”

    I think it’s fine to hook-up with someone simply because you’re attracted to their body. Not every interaction with a MAS has to be about ‘building a life’ together.

  9. Sanoe: I think it’s fine to hook-up with someone simply because you’re attracted to their body. Not every interaction with a MAS has to be about ‘building a life’ together.

    *shrug* Fair enough.

  10. Obviously it’s wrong (and ultimately self-defeating) to assume a potential romantic partner has personality trait X or engages in cultural practice Y based solely on his or her race. That said, though, it is true that people who have a particular cultural background will be more likely to exhibit elements of that culture in their lives. There is a difference between, say, Japanese culture and Danish culture. So, if someone is particularly drawn to one or the other, is it racist fetishization for him or her to be extra attracted to Japanese or Danish men/women in part because of the cultural background that person would bring to the relationship?

  11. I don’t agree that we all have a “type”. I mean, I somewhat prefer tall women, but somehow end up with smart ones instead.

    The race fetish thing is odd. I’ve seen it, but not often enough to understand it. I’m much more used to mail order bride syndrome, where men with awful relationship skills end up with women who don’t have residence rights except by being in the relationship. Or marriage. Working with those dudes is an odd experience. Both their desperation and the women’s acquiescence.

  12. I think the point where a racial preference crosses the line is when you start specifically seeking out potential dating partners with race as a primary factor. Unconscious bias manifests in everyone, and if you can look back at your string of exes and notice a distinct pattern of preferring people of a certain race, that is forgivable, though I would recommend attempting to think more deeply about why your preference exists.

    That being said, the fetishizing crap that Lena Chen describes is beyond the pale. Treating people like fascinating specimens rather than individuals is a great way to make them feel like dog shit. Condescending, dehumanizing, patronizing through and through. I’ve been the subject of similar shit (not race-related) on a single-interaction basis; I can’t imagine how terrible it would be to have that as a relationship dynamic.

  13. According to him, we weren’t nearly as loud, crass, promiscuous, or out of shape as white women.

    Hey, he talks as if those are bad qualities. I take great pains to maintain my loudness, crassness, promiscuity, and unfitness!

  14. In my small sample size (23-year monogamous relationships tend to lessen one’s overall dating numbers), I’ve been drawn to women with larger than smaller breasts. Larger than average? I dunno.

    I decided a long time ago that it had something to do with my mother.

    This is in response to Comrade Kevin’s bewilderment about his general interest in women of a particular physical type.

  15. Andie: I’d have less of a problem with someone saying “I like Asian women because I find dark shiny hair sexy” or “I love Irish guys because I think red hair and freckles is hot” than to say “I like Asian women because they are more docile than white women” or “I like Irish guys because I think a real man should be able to drink me under the table” – both the latter statements are A) not universal and B) make some pretty gross assumptions about gender expectations.

    Not to mention cultural stereotypes.

  16. On an unrelated point, I am always and forever amazed by people who can flip the bird the way the woman in the picture accompanying this thread does it. I have to curl my index and ring fingers all the way down and pin them with my thumb. That halfway-down thing she’s doing in the pic looks awesome but is completely beyond my tendons’ abilities.

  17. Kristen J.:
    Ugh…this is one of the things I was thinking of writing on but didn’t get around to it.Otaku culture in the US is getting completely out of hand.If one more person starts talking about how “cool” it must be that I married an AJA or asks whether M [insert random traditional, frequently sexist practice they’ve seen in some anime] or invites themselves over to try our kotatsu (its happened on several occassions-with strangers), I will commit murder.And it will be justified.

    Of course I only see the fetishization tangentially and as it relates to a dude, so meh.

    Hey now, kotatsus *are* pretty bad ass. 🙂

  18. YES YES YES. This is so creepy and racist, and people try to get around it with absurd arguments like “It can’t be racist or only dating women/men would be sexist!” EXCEPT THAT YOU ARE FETISHIZING! You are stereotyping, you are limiting people to these stereotypes, you are refusing to see them as their own individuals and behaving as though personality–or even physical appearance–is tied to race. There are people who don’t look like their race whom you are erasing through these expectations. And no one “acts” like a race.

    All of this is so messed up.

  19. Athenia: Hey now, kotatsus *are* pretty bad ass. 🙂

    Yes, yes they are. And I love ours…but random strangers are NOT INVITED to come into my house just because they’ve never seen one in real life. 😉

  20. I think that “I like people who look a certain way” and “I like people who look a certain way because I assume that tells me something about their beliefs about politics, a woman’s place in society, religion, etc” are very different things.

    Like for me I have a very specific physical type, and that type tends to mean I’ll be more attracted to people of certain ethnicities than others (really strong preference for dark hair, really strong dislike of body hair, really strong preference for thinness in men, really strong dislike of men whose overall build is much bigger than mine – taller than me is acceptable, but twice my overall size is not, preference for softer rather than more rugged or craggy facial features – the chances of me dating a Swedish** professional athlete are not good no matter how much I like his personality). It also tends to exclude some men who in terms of cultural background might actually be traditionally considered a good fit for me (our aformentioned stereotypical Swede, for example). And I do tend to find that I prefer the facial features commonly found among certain ethnicities over others (again, our hypothetical Swede, charming as he may be, has historically not been someone I’ve been likely to find hot, but I’ve met many, many Finnish people who I’ve found very attractive). There are certain broad (very broad) trends in terms of ethnicity and facial features, and I’ve seen that play out irl in terms of which people I’ve been most likely to be attracted to. And given the preference for thinness and dark hair, and the dislike of hairiness and very bulky builds, East Asian men are more likely to pass my initial visual filtering process than men of some other ethnicities. It has nothing to do with culture – it’s entirely physical.

    So I totally agree that the “be my delicate little lotus blossom” thing is horrible, and I’ve seen the same thing play out with the genders reversed too. But I’m really not comfortable with the idea that having a strong physical type is inherently problematic. Yeah, I know, there’s a common theory in feminist circles that we should be sort of above using looks as the deciding factor in who we do and don’t fuck, but unfortunately I seem to be wired in such a way that if I’m not instantly attracted to someone the moment I see them I’m probably never going to want to fuck them. That thing where people don’t really become attracted to someone until they get to know them just isn’t how it works for me.*

    * It also always feels kind of shaming and sexist to me when the argument that we shouldn’t be focused on looks and should choose sexual partners based on other (assumed to be “more important” or “less shallow”) criteria. Mostly because it’s almost always women that I see that idea being applied to – it’s not very often that you see people trying to shame men for having strong physical preferences unless it’s clear that the preferences aren’t about the actual physical characteristics so much as what those characteristics represent to the man.

    ** I’m not on some sort of anti-Swedish campaign, I’m just using that specific example because there’s a stereotypically Swedish looking guy who I used to work with who I like very much and who I could happily date based on personality if it wasn’t for that fact that from the point of view of my libido he registers as totally neutral and uninteresting.

  21. as my nom d’internet only suggests, i’m japanese and korean, and i know only too well the type of man she’s talking about, and really the type of woman too as there are dykes who are horribly into the tunnel vision causing kind of yellow fever.

  22. My best friend is Asian, and for years she refused to date any man who had a “thing” for Asian women. Now she’s married to one – but he really is the type that just happen to like their looks. There’s a few of them out there.

  23. I have unsorted feelings about fetishization mainly because growing up in Hawaii it was never an issue. Moving to the mainland as an older, partnered man means I’ve avoided much of it. When it crops up, I’m usually too bewildered by *why* someone would think that an AJA would necessarily, for example play the violin, that I don’t immediately connect the stereotype. Its also hard for me to always decipher the line between interest, experience and fetish. I don’t consider it odd for all sorts of people to enjoy manga/anime, to use bento boxes and to eat pocky because these were things all kids did where I grew up. But on the mainland these things seemed to have moved from “enjoyable things in the world” to “things about Japan that must be awesome because they are Japanese.”

    The kotatsu is a prime example. Genius invention. Perfect for eating, studying, video games, and watching tv. If every USian home bought one, I would consider that a triumph for common sense. But some people aren’t interested in them because they are practical, but because they are this strange “other”.

    As I said, unsorted thoughts for what they are worth.

  24. Kristen J.:
    Ugh…this is one of the things I was thinking of writing on but didn’t get around to it.Otaku culture in the US is getting completely out of hand.If one more person starts talking about how “cool” it must be that I married an AJA or asks whether M [insert random traditional, frequently sexist practice they’ve seen in some anime] or invites themselves over to try our kotatsu (its happened on several occassions-with strangers), I will commit murder.And it will be justified.

    Of course I only see the fetishization tangentially and as it relates to a dude, so meh.

    Yes. I am an anime/manga fan, and sometimes I squirm when I think about the stereotypes I assumed when I first got into the medium. Talking to fellow fans can be a headache for these reasons. I have a guy friend who especially likes the smaller, Asian female type, both in real life and portrayed in shows (his most common descriptor for women he likes is “cute”). He is Filipino American, however, and as a white American, I don’t feel like its my place to tell him about stereotypes and preference of race, you know?

  25. igglanova: I think the point where a racial preference crosses the line is when you start specifically seeking out potential dating partners with race as a primary factor.

    What are you saying here? That and unconscious preference is Ok, but if you are aware of it, then it is not? Sounds strange to me.

    I seem to be with the majority group here: If this is just a preference, it is not an issue, but when it is actually based on racial stereotypes and prejudices then it is just another expression of racism.

  26. Just noticing how the men in this thread immediately delineate their preferred “types,” clearly emphasising — of COURSE — their desired breast size, while only one woman has done anything remotely similar.

    Yeah, just noticing.

  27. Just as reductive as assumed personality attributes based on race is attraction to certain physical attributes based on troubling racial stereotyping such as the “mandigo” dick. When attraction to a whole group of people is based on their genitalia, then the physical attraction is just as troubling as the supposition of personality traits attributable to a racial group.

  29. Crys T: Just noticing how the men in this thread immediately delineate their preferred “types,” clearly emphasising — of COURSE — their desired breast size, while only one woman has done anything remotely similar.

    Hmm? I found two such comments from men in this thread. Hardly a large sample. (Also, we have one preference for small breasts and one for large, so there does not appear to be a consensus)

    However, I think you are probably correct as a general point. The breasts are an important sexual characteristic according to many. That they are a significant factor when discussing physical sexual attraction is to be expected, surely?

  30. Since part of Crys T’s complaint seems to be directed at me, I’m going to respond to this.

    If you want to critique the specific preferences that a person has in terms of what they’re attracted to, I think that’s mostly OK. But if your point is that the having of physical preferences is inherently wrong/bad/shallow/etc., then sorry, but that’s ridiculous.

  31. Well, if you lined up my crushed/boyfriends/dating partners you would notice a number of striking similarities, not in ethnicity but in general physical appearance. Whereas M’s prior attractions only seem to have personality traits in common. I think that implies that I am far more shallow.

  32. After thinking a little more about this:
    One other problem (beyond possible racism) with this kind of fetishism is when you get to a more established relationships you want someone who can see you for who you are and is prepared to move beyond the surface (as corny as that may sound). The fetish can become a hindrance in this when the other person refuses to see reality instead of what they want to be there.

    So perhaps the above discussions about “types” and pure physical attraction is at least partly a distraction from the core problem.

  33. We’re getting a bit off topic here, but I really don’t see why having physical preferences is a bad thing. I can see how it could be a bad thing at the extremes, like if you literally refuse to date people because they’re one inch taller/shorter than you normally go for, or their weight is different from what you normally prefer by 10 pounds, but in a general sense I think having physical preferences is just, you know, the normal way in which humans go about selecting a mate.

  34. Kristen J.: Well, if you lined up my crushed/boyfriends/dating partners you would notice a number of striking similarities, not in ethnicity but in general physical appearance. Whereas M’s prior attractions only seem to have personality traits in common. I think that implies that I am far more shallow.

    This points at some of the stuff around fetishisation and the inverse no-asians-i-am-busy-being-a-white-person-on-grindr thing that really confuses me. Having a general physical type, sure, I’ll buy that, but Asian people: they do not all look the same. “Asian”, in fact, largely socially constructed category rather than meaningful descriptor of shared physical appearance. Even the partners I have had with similar ethnic backgrounds have not really looked like each other. So I think this idea amongst people who preference/dispreference “asians” that physical preference can just kind of unproblematically conflate with a preference for what, 60% of the world’s population? Kind of suggests that there’s something extra going on.

  35. Li: This points at some of the stuff around fetishisation and the inverse no-asians-i-am-busy-being-a-white-person-on-grindr thing that really confuses me. Having a general physical type, sure, I’ll buy that, but Asian people: they do not all look the same. “Asian”, in fact, largely socially constructed category rather than meaningful descriptor of shared physical appearance. Even the partners I have had with similar ethnic backgrounds have not really looked like each other. So I think this idea amongst people who preference/dispreference “asians” that physical preference can just kind of unproblematically conflate with a preference for what, 60% of the world’s population? Kind of suggests that there’s something extra going on.

    Ah I agree. And don’t even get M *started* on the word Asian. I know some people identify that way, but it generally makes his head explode.

  36. No, matlun, that is not what I said. You cross a line when you develop racially-based tunnel vision and your mandatory criterion for pursuing a romantic interest is that person’s race. Picking someone because of their race is a problem, but if your partners’ races are incidental to some deeper selection pattern, then your actions are less likely to have been influenced by racism.

    People always say something neat and tidy like ‘well you’re not doing anyone any favours if you date someone you’re not attracted to,’ but that ignores that fact that your perception of someone’s attractiveness can change, not to mention the systemic impact that paradigms of attractiveness have on various groups of people. So, don’t date someone if you’re not attracted to them. But if you detect the stink of racism in your reasons for it, try to unpack that privately and work toward becoming a less racist person overall. A broadening of your tastes might follow.

  37. The OP touched on this, and I think it’s worth exploring the fact that sometimes a white man’s fetishization of Asian women is based on his hatred of white women. A person is within rights to find a certain physical type attractive or not attractive, but to me it becomes something altogether different and really disturbing when the rationale for dating Asian is “because white women are all fat hairy feminazis.”

    I can’t help thinking that if you are carrying that much hatred for a particular group of women, it’s going to spill over into your interaction with all women. It says “If you don’t conform to my idea of what a woman should be, I reserve the right to hate you and spew this kind of vile dehumanizing bullshit at you.”

  38. I have a Malaysian female friend who has been studying here in Australia for about 5 years. She says she dates only white Australian men (at our uni we have a huge contingent of Malaysian students so it is a real choice) because they will treat her better than the men from her own country.

    I am not put off by this even though when the male/female roles are swapped I think it is weird and predatory (and as explained in other posts likely to be based on hate).

    For her it is the difference between being treated with respect or not which seems like a valid reason.

    For the record, I can’t say I have a physical type. I have always been strongly attracted to the cleverest, strongest women in a group. So would probably be spoilt for choice in a group of Feministe posters 😛

  39. Li: Asian people: they do not all look the same.

    Yes, but the people who have this preference are probably using “Asian” as a kind of short hand for the subcategory of ethnic Asians that matches their preference. For example, only petite Chinese looking women (which was the case for the only person I myself knew who had this type of fetish).

    If anyone actually had a general preference that included all Asians that would indeed be weird.

  40. I was told the other day that I have an ‘Asian Fetish’ when a friend took a look at my living room (my grandmother spent 10 years living in China and when she died I got a lot of her object d’art.)

    Now I feel dirty.

  41. “If anyone actually had a general preference that included all Asians that would indeed be weird.”

    I have actually encountered people who’ve said this irl. They’ve all been women/girls, though.

    Backstory – I’m a journalist, focusing on music and fashion, and I’ve worked with a bunch of Japanese bands when they’ve toured in the US. So I’ve also spent quite a bit of time around their American fans (trust me, this is not by choice). Within that group I’ve encountered multiple teenage girls/young women who, putting on my I have a degree in psychology that I don’t actually use hat, I’d say probably have an actual fetish. As in, meets the clinical definition of a fetish, not just “you’re being kind of creepy”. A lot of them do indeed seem to think that any Asian man they see is hot, particularly if he’s Japanese, Korean, or Chinese. That’s part of why I think it’s an actual fetish – they don’t seem to distinguish between people based on their actual appearance much at all. Basically any kind of alternative-looking Asian guy is “hot”, and a guy who’s not alternative looking is a project who can be made alternative looking with the appropriate hairstyle and some eyeliner.

    There’s also this weird thing (which I think is closer to what most people mean when they say “Asian fetish”) where a bunch of them seem to be under the impression that all Asian men look like pop stars from Korea, rock stars from Japan, movie stars from Hong Kong, etc. So often they actually go to those countries in the hopes of finding a boyfriend and are SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU that most of the men they encounter there look like, you know, regular guys, not guys who are paid to be good looking. There was one girl in particular who posted this hilarious rant about how she went to Tokyo and didn’t see a single guy who looked like (insert names of ridiculously hot guitar player and ridiculously hot bass player here, both of whom are also nearly 6 feet tall, just for extra are you fucking kidding me).

    She got kind of pissed at me when I responded with “Yeah, man, I went to Germany and didn’t meet a single woman who looked like Claudia Schiffer. I think my travel agent owes me a refund.”

  42. Cassandra, I have definitely encountered gay men (though never a queer id’d man) with similar attitudes towards Asian men. Though in their case I’d replace “alternative-looking” with “submissive”. Which is where the something extra I alluded to earlier comes in: in the case of the white gay men I’ve met who have fetishised Asian men, the shared characteristic of the people they’ve expressed attraction to hasn’t really been physical so much as a conflation of their Asianness with submissiveness, to the extent that I’ve encountered men who have referred to butch or dom Asian men as “western”.

  43. R.Dave: Obviously it’s wrong (and ultimately self-defeating) to assume a potential romantic partner has personality trait X or engages in cultural practice Y based solely on his or her race. That said, though, it is true that people who have a particular cultural background will be more likely to exhibit elements of that culture in their lives. There is a difference between, say, Japanese culture and Danish culture. So, if someone is particularly drawn to one or the other, is it racist fetishization for him or her to be extra attracted to Japanese or Danish men/women in part because of the cultural background that person would bring to the relationship?

    I’m commenting late on this, but here’s my two cents: at best, it’s ignorant and foolish as hell.

    Look, I lived in Osaka for 3 1/2 years. I knew White, Western men who thought Japanese women were really submissive women who’d walk on their backs (one dude actually said he liked Asian women because “they really respect the man”). The reality is not quite so cut and dry, however. Culture is complicated, and liking some of the attributes of a culture doesn’t mean you understand or get the entirety of the culture.

    Most of these guys found themselves in situations they were not prepared for. They were living with their wife’s family (housing is expensive, and it’s not unusual to live with your extended family). The concept of privacy is very different there. And they learned too late, that just because somone doesn’t tell you to go fuck yourself doesn’t mean that a) they “really respect the man” (seriously? WTF) or b) that they are submissive. There there are various ways of doing things there that we don’t do in North America or Europe, yet these guys expected their wives and in-laws to understand and adapt to their ways of doing things.

    Also–a lot of my friend’s parents over there were quite opposed to their daughters marrying a Western man, and I suspect this was a large part of the reason why.

    And when you take the assumptions about culture and apply it to everyone of a certain race (for example, Asian Americans), it is an extra layer of creepy and yes, racist.

  45. Fetishes personally creep me out. I completely understand being attracted to certain traits such as blonde hair or green eyes, but to like more than one person based on their race is a concept that I doubt I will ever grasp.
    I high school I dated I had several boyfriends and during my junior and senior year I dated 3 African American boys. I am a white girl and everyone would make fun of me for having what they titled, “jungle fever.” I found this term to be particularly degrading and rude. People began to say that I was only attracted to Black men and that I would only date them for the rest of my life because of my “Black fetish and obsession.” In reality however, I had no such thing as “jungle fever.” I was attracted to each of the boy’s physical appearance and personalities, but this wasn’t to say I wasn’t attracted to boys of different ethnicities as well.
    It frustrated me being so stereotyped, criticized and made fun of. I liked who I liked and they just so happened to have darker skin than myself. People with certain ethnicity fetishes confuse me. I understand people having certain types, but people who’s certain types are strictly Asians or Black or White I just can’t seem to comprehend. Doing that categorizes people and would make me feel as if someone is dating me from the beginning simply due to my race rather than my personality.

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