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Things I am grateful for today

Jill

This guy is not my boyfriend:

My girlfriend had a nose job done three years ago at my request. (I did not pressure her.) Tragically, the procedure went wrong and her face was disfigured. We stayed together throughout this and I covered some of her legal and medical bills and did my best to support her emotionally. For the past year, however, I feel like I’m with her out of guilt more than anything. I find myself losing patience with her and making excuses to cancel our dates. I do not have the heart to break up with her because I feel obliged to look after her. I’m sure she’s noticed this but hasn’t said anything to me—in fact she treats me more nicely, as does her mom. Am I a jerk for not loving her anymore?

80 thoughts on Things I am grateful for today

  1. That guy can seriously walk straight into traffic. I mean, come the fuck on, guy, who do you think you’re kidding with your “oh I totes didn’t pressure her” bullshit? Especially since if there was an underlying medical condition that could be treated by a nose job, you know that would have taken up half the letter.

  4. I find it hilarious that this post was written by someone who has, across multiple threads on multiple issues, asserted the right to date or not anyone they choose for any reason they choose. Jill here has many times used this as a shield with which to deflect all criticism of her personal choices. So yeah, he’s a shallow douchebag, but chances are so is everyone else here about something or another, including the poster.

    The only sad thing is that he feels the need to get someone else’s permission for feeling the way he feels, particularly as he seems to believe that these people weren’t terribly nice to him before all of this happen and are just sucking up now to keep him around.

    But go ahead. Carry on with criticisms you’d never tolerate if issues against you or your friends. It is truly a lot easier to pretend to be a good person than it is to actually be one.

  5. Yeah, there’re plenty of reasons I wouldn’t date someone. You know what I also know I wouldn’t do? Ask somebody to have unnecessary surgery. So I feel pretty confident about criticizing this douche.

  6. What the fuck. Jill has never said that it is perfectly okay for you to pressure your SO into getting surgery and THEN dump her when she’s too ugly for you anymore. And hell, nobody’s saying they should stay together either.

    Something touch a nerve here?

  8. I read that article the other day, and can’t remember the last time I wanted to punch a total stranger so badly.

    btw, reading between the lines, I suspect this guy considers her nose “disfigured” for roughly the same reason he considered it inadequate in the first place: it’s something he can hold over her to convince her she’d never be able to get another guy, because he’s an abusive schmuck and that’s what abusive schmucks do.

    She needs to get the hell out of dodge. And this guy is not ready for an adult relationship, but that won’t stop him.

  10. EG:
    Yeah, there’re plenty of reasons I wouldn’t date someone.You know what I also know I wouldn’t do?Ask somebody to have unnecessary surgery.So I feel pretty confident about criticizing this douche.

    This.

    Whether or not he’s a jerk for not loving her anymore, he is a jerk for asking her to alter her appearance via surgery at his request.

  11. Soullite:

    He’s perfectly within his right to fall out of love with her – that’s sorta the way relationships go. He is, however, a giant ass for asking her to get a nose job. Why did he get involved with someone who he wanted to have surgically hacked up?

  12. It’s crap that he asked her to get a nose job. It’s extra-crap that it went wrong on her and that he now thinks of her as disfigured. But if he doesn’t want to be with her anymore, he absolutely needs to get the fuck out of there. Even without botched surgery, relationships don’t last forever – his lack of interest in her now may not just be about how she looks (he doesn’t actually say as much), and he might have ended the relationship anyway (although seriously, big reason not to ask someone to get surgery for you – *you* won’t be the person living with it for the rest of your life). Honestly, I think his biggest doucheliness is in hanging around in her life when he clearly has nothing to offer her except pity and guilt.

  13. EG:
    Yeah, there’re plenty of reasons I wouldn’t date someone.You know what I also know I wouldn’t do?Ask somebody to have unnecessary surgery.So I feel pretty confident about criticizing this douche.

    /thread

  14. I find it hilarious that this post was written by someone who has, across multiple threads on multiple issues, asserted the right to date or not anyone they choose for any reason they choose. Jill here has many times used this as a shield with which to deflect all criticism of her personal choices. So yeah, he’s a shallow douchebag, but chances are so is everyone else here about something or another, including the poster.

    Who knew that believing in social justice meant that you had to date everyone?

  15. “My girlfriend had a nose job done three years ago at my request.”
    This sentence made me nauseous. Something about the words “at my request.” Ich. And then the “I did not pressure her” in parenthesis just piles it on. How do you “request” that your S.O. get cosmetic surgery without that being pressure in and of itself? (Disclaimer: yes, he had the “right” to ask. Yes, she could have said no. Still makes him an entitled jerk.)

    This is the sick part, not the fact that he wants to break up.

  17. Emolee:
    “My girlfriend had a nose job done three years ago at my request.”
    This sentence made me nauseous.Something about the words “at my request.”Ich.And then the “I did not pressure her” in parenthesis just piles it on.How do you “request” that your S.O. get cosmetic surgery without that being pressure in and of itself?(Disclaimer: yes, he had the “right” to ask.Yes, she could have said no.Still makes him an entitled jerk.)

    This is the sick part, not the fact that he wants to break up.

    Yeah, wanting to dump her now is kind of the jackass icing on the douchebag cake.

  19. Jadey, except that you also know that this guy is manipulative and dishonest, courtesy of his own words. If you request that your girlfriend get a nose job you are in fact pressuring her. He’s told a lie right there. “Request(ing)” plastic surgery is right out of the abuser’s handbook, and that he can’t connect that a “request” for plastic surgery is a form of pressure shows he’s lacking in empathy for others’ emotional responses. It reads to me as the emotional equivalent of “well, I didn’t really hit her that hard.”

  20. Soullite, he can break up with her for any reason he wants. I hope he breaks up with her! She shouldn’t be with someone who doesn’t want to be with her, and he can date anyone he chooses. He’s a dick, though, for talking her into getting a nose job. And I also reserve the right to think someone is a dick.

  21. “No pressure,” yeah I bet. It’s one of those sensitive topics that kind of implies pressure.

    I have to wonder how he’d feel if a girlfriend asked him to treat his (hypothetically) receding hairline, or asked him to do something about his (hypothetically) sub-par sexual performance. I wonder if he would feel like that is a no-pressure situation.

  22. It’s a funny thing. When I’m dating someone and for whatever reason I just can’t live with the state of their nose… I leave the relationship, because that’s my problem and not theirs. But maybe I’m just weird that way?

  23. samanthab:
    If you request that your girlfriend get a nose job you are in fact pressuring her. He’s told a lie right there. “Request(ing)” plastic surgery is right out of the abuser’s handbook, and that he can’t connect that a “request” for plastic surgery is a form of pressure shows he’s lacking in empathy for others’ emotional responses. It reads to me as the emotional equivalent of “well, I didn’t really hit her that hard.”

    Seconded.

  24. Soullite:
    I find it hilarious that this post was written by someone who has, across multiple threads on multiple issues, asserted the right to date or not anyone they choose for any reason they choose.

    I assert the same right. And I think this woman would be much, much better off if her abuser had exercised the right to not date people that he didn’t find attractive.

  26. It was a very interesting Dear Prudie today. Asking someone to get cosmetic plastic surgery is HORRIBLE. Suggesting someone might need cosmetic plastic surgery is HORRIBLE. I, personally, think getting plastic surgery (cosmetic) is almost always a bad idea. If you are with someone you should accept them how they are.

    I thought another letter, the one from the woman who was wondering if she could leave her terminally ill boyfriend with a clear conscience, was interesting as well.

  27. samanthab:
    Jadey, except that you also know that this guy is manipulative and dishonest, courtesy of his own words. If you request that your girlfriend get a nose job you are in fact pressuring her. He’s told a lie right there. “Request(ing)” plastic surgery is right out of the abuser’s handbook, and that he can’t connect that a “request” for plastic surgery is a form of pressure shows he’s lacking in empathy for others’ emotional responses. It reads to me as the emotional equivalent of “well, I didn’t really hit her that hard.”

    ?? When did I say that he wasn’t manipulative, dishonest, or did not pressure her? I think you are thinking of someone else’s comment. The only thing I questioned was whether he was breaking up with her because of her appearance or because of other reasons. I don’t think that mitigates his douchiness, though.

  28. I love how the angry anti-feminist tried to spin this into “Jill is forcing this guy to date a woman his abusive pressure disfigured.” The one thing she absolutely said is she’s glad he’s not her boyfriend. I think we can extrapolate that Jill would probably be happy for any woman this douche isn’t dating, including the one he’s about to dump. I just hope said woman can get her face returned to a semblance of normality after he did her so wrong. I agree he sounds abusive—men who get into relationships with women and start to “work” on “flaws” women had when they started the relationship usually are.

  29. Jumping the gun a little bit aren’t we. You are claiming the man is a dick/abuser because of one paragraph from his point of view. We don’t know her side of the story at all. Also, “requesting” is very vague. He could have said any one of these things:

    1. I think it would look better if you removed that bump on your nose.
    2. I think you should get a nosejob.
    3. I will break up with you if you don’t get a nosejob.
    4. Go get a fucking nosejob!

    1 and 2 are just him stating an opinion and she can easily say no. 3 is a bad ultimatum. 4. is barking an order. 3 and 4 are clearly in the realm of “abusive” but I if he said something along the lines of 1 and 2, I wouldn’t say he was being abusive…just stating his opinion.

    samanthab:
    Jadey, except that you also know that this guy is manipulative and dishonest, courtesy of his own words. If you request that your girlfriend get a nose job you are in fact pressuring her. He’s told a lie right there. “Request(ing)” plastic surgery is right out of the abuser’s handbook, and that he can’t connect that a “request” for plastic surgery is a form of pressure shows he’s lacking in empathy for others’ emotional responses. It reads to me as the emotional equivalent of “well, I didn’t really hit her that hard.”

    Do you not like the idea he was “requesting” something…or that he “requested” getting plastic surgery? I find it hard to label anyone an abuser if they simply ask someone to do something when the person asked as the ability to say no at anytime. People ask me to do things…sometimes I say yes other times it’s no. At no point to I feel I am being abused or taken advantage of.

    Lastly, I think he should leave her. What is the point of being in a relationship and be filled with guilt, remorse or shame. It would be better for both of them.

  30. Brandon: He could have said any one of these things:

    1. I think it would look better if you removed that bump on your nose.
    2. I think you should get a nosejob.
    3. I will break up with you if you don’t get a nosejob.
    4. Go get a fucking nosejob!

    1 and 2 are just him stating an opinion and she can easily say no. 3 is a bad ultimatum. 4. is barking an order. 3 and 4 are clearly in the realm of “abusive” but I if he said something along the lines of 1 and 2, I wouldn’t say he was being abusive…just stating his opinion.

    And I’m just going to state my opinion here and say you’re absolutely wrong, and your post would look a lot better if you weren’t mansplaining for some dick who suggested his girlfriend get expensive, and ultimately disfiguring, cosmetic surgery.

  31. Jumping the gun a little bit aren’t we. You are claiming the man is a dick/abuser because of one paragraph from his point of view. We don’t know her side of the story at all. Also, “requesting” is very vague.

    “Please undergo a risky procedure because I don’t like the way you look.”

    Even if framed as a request, he asked to her to have SURGERY because he didn’t like the way her nose looked. That’s a dick move.

  32. Brandon: 1. I think it would look better if you removed that bump on your nose.
    2. I think you should get a nosejob.
    3. I will break up with you if you don’t get a nosejob.
    4. Go get a fucking nosejob!

    1 and 2 are just him stating an opinion and she can easily say no. 3 is a bad ultimatum. 4. is barking an order. 3 and 4 are clearly in the realm of “abusive” but I if he said something along the lines of 1 and 2, I wouldn’t say he was being abusive…just stating his opinion.

    While I also would hesitate to name this guy as an abuser based on the very short letter from him to an advice columnist alone, I disagree with your reasoning. Abuse isn’t a single act or statement – it’s the entire atmosphere and context of a relationship. Statement 1 could absolutely fit into an abusive relationship (in fact, of all four statements, that was the one that rung most true for me as having the potential for severe emotional manipulation), especially where someone has already created the environment in which all kinds of threat and judgement could be communicated subtly. Lots of abusers use clever, coded, and subtle language to great effect.

  33. Who knew that believing in social justice meant that you had to date everyone?

    Jill only cares about her own. Remember LUGs? [lesbian until graduation] Jill is a SJWUM [social justice warrior until married]

  34. Jadey: Lots of abusers use clever, coded, and subtle language to great effect.

    Lots of people fail to realize that abuse doesn’t always take the form of hitting, yelling, or strong language. Some abusers themselves don’t realize it. Mine sure as hell didn’t.

  35. Ellie: And I’m just going to state my opinion here and say you’re absolutely wrong, and your post would look a lot better if you weren’t mansplaining for some dick who suggested his girlfriend get expensive, and ultimately disfiguring, cosmetic surgery.

    Co-signed. *sigh* I see Brandon the “feminist” is back for some more mansplaining.

  36. @ Brandon: He may or may not be an abuser. I agree we have very little information. That said, he is *definitely* an asshole. Requesting someone you are in a relationship with have plastic surgery to alter their appearance is a disgusting thing to do.

    It doesn’t matter if the “request” was “polite” or not an explicit order or ultimatum. It is precicely the word “request” that gave me the heebiejeebies. In fact, “I think it would look better if you removed that bump on your nose” is a really, really assholish thing to say to someone with whom you are in an intimate relationship.

    Yes, as I said earlier, she could say no. Yes, he may just be stating his opinion. Still makes him a jerk. Sometimes people’s opinions, and especially their voicing of those opinions in certain contexts to certain people, make them assholes.

    1. Jill only cares about her own. Remember LUGs? [lesbian until graduation] Jill is a SJWUM [social justice warrior until married]

      Hahaha yes, totally.

  37. You are claiming the man is a dick/abuser because of one paragraph from his point of view.

    Um…most people try to make their side look better and are almost certainly not going to make themselves look worse, especially if they know that the other side of the story isn’t going to be available. You might, possibly, maybe have a point if the letter was from her point of view.

  38. Trying to influence your partners medical decisions for your own benefit is abusive.
    Not accepting your lover’s body the way it is, is abusive.
    Telling someone to undergo surgery for your ego is abusive.
    But that’s just my two sense.

  39. Ellie: Lots of people fail to realize that abuse doesn’t always take the form of hitting, yelling, or strong language. Some abusers themselves don’t realize it. Mine sure as hell didn’t.

    This. I was in a relationship, where, if you asked this guy now if he was sexually abusive towards me, he would say no, and he would be right in his own mind because he never raped me, but he was in fact sexually abusive because he ignored the fact I told him I wasn’t ready to have sex with him yet, and made sex a constant feature of our conversations to serve as an unrelenting reminder to me that he expected me to fuck him. The pressure continued even after I tried explaining to him that I was a survivor of sexual abuse and sexual assault. So he never had to lay a hand on me to be sexually abusive.

    Likewise, this jackwagon didn’t even need to use strong language to hurt her and make her feel like she had to give in to his request that she get her face cut up on the surgery table.

  40. My God, the LW is a horrible person.

    Breaking up with his girlfriend is the only kind thing he will have done for her. He’s awful.

  41. The *ONLY* way suggesting someone get a nose job would be even remotely acceptable in a relationship would be something along the lines of:

    “I hate my nose”
    “If you hate it so much, why don’t you get a nose job?”

    But that would be a suggestion, not a request. A request implies that this was something he asked her to do for his benefit so either A)she’d look ‘better’ to him or B) she’d look ‘better’ to his friends.

    (and all that being said, even this is a dick response… the best answer would be ‘Oh, honey, you’re beautiful just the way you are.’ Durr.)

  42. @Brandon–

    I can’t think of a good reason to ask someone you love to endure painful surgery (with potential for complications) because you hate their face.

    If my partner suggested plastic surgery for me, I’d be hurt and heartbroken. He, as a “loving boyfriend” openly told his girl her face was ugly. Even if he didn’t say anything about leaving her after that, that’s the kind of thing to make a girl paranoid or upset and do things she’d normally not do, especially if she loves him.

    I had an ex repeatedly give me these little hints about how I could “look so much better” or “improve myself”. I cut my hair, changed my makeup, bought all new clothes, stopped talking about my hobbies, and stopped talking to people unless he was there so I wouldn’t “embarass” myself. And the fact he couldn’t see how distressing this whole thing was makes him a jerk. Yeah, I could have said “no”, but then he might have left me, and I loved him. It’s a natural act to try and “please” the one we love, and a careful partner keeps from taking advantage of that.

    Love doesn’t last forever, but to ask someone to undergo SURGERY for you is right up there with a promise ring in terms of commitment.

  43. @ CaliOak “Not accepting your lover’s body the way it is, is abusive.” This is a radical statement (to me), but I love it. Thanks.

  44. Emolee:
    @ CaliOak “Not accepting your lover’s body the way it is, is abusive.”This is a radical statement (to me), but I love it.Thanks.

    It’ll probably also serve as an MRA dog whistle. Countdown to them coming out of the woodwork in 3…2…1…

  46. Andie: It’ll probably also serve as an MRA dog whistle.Countdown to them coming out of the woodwork in 3…2…1…

    Rut roh. :S That will be fun…ok, not really. Brandon defending this jackwagon is bad enough. The Slate comments section already has plenty of men defending this asshole’s actions.

  47. karak: I had an ex repeatedly give me these little hints about how I could “look so much better” or “improve myself”. I cut my hair, changed my makeup, bought all new clothes, stopped talking about my hobbies, and stopped talking to people unless he was there so I wouldn’t “embarass” myself. And the fact he couldn’t see how distressing this whole thing was makes him a jerk. Yeah, I could have said “no”, but then he might have left me, and I loved him. It’s a natural act to try and “please” the one we love, and a careful partner keeps from taking advantage of that.

    I’m so sorry. Also, I think we share an ex. :/ That shit is hard to get over. I’m so glad I never did something like undergo cosmetic surgery because of his insecurities with his apparently inadequate girlfriend.

  48. Seriously can’t believe people come out of the woodwork to defend douchebags like this guy. We need to start a Dicks 4 Dicks support group as a public service for women everywhere. Damn.

  49. Florence:
    Seriously can’t believe people come out of the woodwork to defend douchebags like this guy. We need to start a Dicks 4 Dicks support group as a public service for women everywhere.Damn.

    Well, in Brandon’s case, he spent a lot of energy defending Elevator Guy’s asshole behavior, so I guess we shouldn’t be too shocked that here he is defending another asshole’s behavior.

    But yeah, sometimes I think we expect too much from people. They end up defending shit like this.

  50. I’m hoping this letter to Prudie is a fake, trolly one. I’d never ask a BF to get plastic surgery to “improve” his appearence–if something about his looks bugged me that much, I wouldn’t go out with him and leave him available for someone who would appreciate his looks.

    I continue to be gobsmaked by resident mansplainers and defensive anti-feminist shit for brains who don’t get basic decency.

  53. Soullite: I find it hilarious that this post was written by someone who has, across multiple threads on multiple issues, asserted the right to date or not anyone they choose for any reason they choose.

    You know, I’m not usually much of a one for inalienable rights, but this is definitely one of them.

    I mean, seriously. Are you really asserting that Jill doesn’t have the right to not date anyone she chooses for any reason she chooses?

  54. On a very side note,
    Why is it I only ever hear the phrase “Lesbian until Graduation” said by lesbians in an attempt to shame bisexual women for being bisexual? Maybe because that’s its purpose?

    Great comparing a shitty thing you invented to another shitty thing to clue us in, Shiferet SDI! Very helpful.

  55. The man is a complete and utter asshole, nuff said. If you don’t like the way someone looks in the first place than why the hell are you going out with them? Also, quit picking on Jill, I do not see her saying that what this guy did was acceptable or encouraging women to date people like him.

  56. Sheelzebub:
    I’m hoping this letter to Prudie is a fake, trolly one.I’d never ask a BF to get plastic surgery to “improve” his appearence–if something about his looks bugged me that much, I wouldn’t go out with him and leave him available for someone who would appreciate his looks.

    I hate that it’s plausible to me. Only recently did I learn that my grandmother got breast enhancement surgery when her children had left the nest, as part of the deal that ended her separation from her husband. 🙁 Grandpa really was an ass sometimes.

  57. The hell? What kind of a guy thinks it’s a-ok to suggest to a partner that she needs to have plastic surgery? Reason I don’t date, eleventy billionth. I find it kind of discouraging that the girlfriend didn’t dump him immediately. Why do people think love is such a good thing?
    I mean, yeah, my dad had plastic surgery before I was born, but that was to correct the damage after he got his face busted in a car accident. My mom didn’t suggest it, and he would have been justified in kicking her to the curb if she had.

  58. @Ellie–

    The hardest part about the whole thing is that it wasn’t just cold-blooded manipulation, he genuinely believed this cruel advice was a good idea and would be helpful. I think that’s what make so many bad relationships hard to leave–our partner isn’t willfully evil, just very, very, thoughtless and acting out of a half-assed love.

    When I flew the “would you ask a partner to get plastic surgery” question past my current partner, he turned to me slowly with a look of utter horror and disgust. “God no! People do that? I would never want someone to do that! Don’t do that. I love your face. You should love your face. Everyone should love their face and someone shouldn’t go around telling people to CUT OPEN THEIR FACE.”

    A calm, measured, rational response if there ever was one.

  59. karak: When I flew the “would you ask a partner to get plastic surgery” question past my current partner, he turned to me slowly with a look of utter horror and disgust. “God no! People do that? I would never want someone to do that! Don’t do that. I love your face. You should love your face. Everyone should love their face and someone shouldn’t go around telling people to CUT OPEN THEIR FACE.”

    A calm, measured, rational response if there ever was one

    Sounds like your partner is a keeper.

    Here’s hoping that LW’s girlfriend finds someone like your partner when LW leaves her.

  61. Sei Shonagon:
    It’s a funny thing. When I’m dating someone and for whatever reason I just can’t live with the state of their nose… I leave the relationship, because that’s my problem and not theirs. But maybe I’m just weird that way?

    Obviously, you are doing it wrong. If you are dating someone and you find their nose revolting, then it is clear that is THEIR problem and if they really loved you they’d get it fixed immediately. Duh.

  62. Did anyone read through the other Prudie advice pieces? Am I the only one that thinks she’s kind of an asshole?

    This, obvs the dude is a douche and that’s fine, but I really didn’t like some of her other responses.

  63. PrettyAmiable: Did anyone read through the other Prudie advice pieces? Am I the only one that thinks she’s kind of an asshole?

    The column that took the cake for me was when Prudie told a young woman that one day she will miss being harassed by men in public and that she (Prudie) feels jealous when men harass her teenage daughter when they’re out together.

    Since then I don’t bother much with her columns.

  65. “The column that took the cake for me was when Prudie told a young woman that one day she will miss being harassed by men in public and that she (Prudie) feels jealous when men harass her teenage daughter when they’re out together.”

    I don’t think that’s just Prudie though. I think it’s a very sad commentary on how society encourages women to base their self-esteem on their attractiveness to men.

  66. Feministe needs to get one of those signs with swappable numbers in the header… ‘__ days without a flame war!’

    On the plus side, thanks to this post we now have an easy litmus test for whether a person is even worth paying attention to.

  67. Annaleigh: Co-signed. *sigh* I see Brandon the “feminist” is back for some more mansplaining.

    “Mansplaining” heh…that’s cute. Also I never said I was a feminist…just that agree with certain feminist ideas. I don’t like to put any labels or -ist’s on me…it tends to make people dumber by locking them in an ideological box and prevents thinking that might go against established dogma.

    Kierra: Um…most people try to make their side look better and are almost certainly not going to make themselves look worse, especially if they know that the other side of the story isn’t going to be available.You might, possibly, maybe have a point if the letter was from her point of view.

    Very true. He said “requested” then said he didn’t “pressure” her. I am definitely willing to believe that he did in fact pressure her…because as you said, most people tend to cast themselves in the best light. However…there just isn’t enough information or evidence to say what truly happened. It would be nice if he could clarify said statement and it would also be nice to hear her POV on the matter. In situations where there isn’t enough evidence, I am not going to “jump the gun” and assume this guy is an asshole/dick/abuser/whatever. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and at least give them a chance to further clarify the situation.

    Annaleigh: Well, in Brandon’s case, he spent a lot of energy defending Elevator Guy’s asshole behavior, so I guess we shouldn’t be too shocked that here he is defending another asshole’s behavior.

    But yeah, sometimes I think we expect too much from people. They end up defending shit like this.

    I wasn’t really defending Elevator Guy per se, just that the whole Watson/Elevator Guy/Dawkins thing was simply pointless and blown completely out of proportion. I just have a hard time getting outraged at something that can be solved with a simple “No thanks”.

    Anyways, I am not defending this guy…at best I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and not calling him some degenerate abuser because we don’t have enough information about it.

    Even if he did request she got a nosejob, I still can’t justify calling him an abuser. Insensitive? Sure. An abuser? Hardly. A person that is just expressing their opinion does not make someone an abuser.

    I have had girlfriends that have said I should lose about 20 pounds. I typically tell them it would be nice to be 20 pounds lighter, but if it bothers them that much…there is the door. She isn’t being abusive…just stating an opinion that upsets my ego a bit. It’s happened before, it will happen again. No point getting bent out of shape about it.

  68. He is a jerk if he requested a nose job. She isn’t too bright if she got major surgery she didn’t want. I would have said no.

  69. I don’t think there’s a way to make a “request” like that in our society that is not hurtful and degrading. I think you could do it if women weren’t valued more for their conformity to a punitive standard of beauty. But that’s just not the case.

    Put another way: you could say “I think you should buy a Honda,” because woman are not (to my knowledge, anyway) valued because they drive a certain type of car. But the meaning of what is said depends largely on the context in which it is said.

    Frankly, he could have used little finger puppets and talked like Hugh Grant, and it would still be a hurtful thing to say, because it implicitly states that his girlfriend’s value is based on her conformity to beauty standards and not on her inherent worth as a person.

  70. Brandon: “Mansplaining” heh…that’s cute. Also I never said I was a feminist…just that agree with certain feminist ideas. I don’t like to put any labels or -ist’s on me…it tends to make people dumber by locking them in an ideological box and prevents thinking that might go against established dogma.

    Let me guess, Brandon, you’re a “humanist”?

    …in fact she treats me more nicely, as does her mom.

    This was somehow the saddest part, for me. I hope this poor woman finds peace.

  71. Can someone remind me again what the established dogma of feminism is again? I failed to renew my subscription and lost my mental link with the Feminist Hivemind that dictates my every thought and action, and when I try to Google it everyone seems to be disagreeing.

  72. This is absolutely hideous–that guy, his “request,” everything. He seeded into her the idea that she needed a nose job, requested that she make a choice to have a medical procedure done to her that would physically alter her body, and now wants validation for himself. This entire situation is pregnant with hypocrisy.

  73. anna: I don’t think that’s just Prudie though. I think it’s a very sad commentary on how society encourages women to base their self-esteem on their attractiveness to men.

    This is certainly true, Anna, but the LW later posted in a thread about the column that was on Jezebel. She was honestly looking for advice how to cope with the harassment. Instead of receiving helpful advice, LW got treated to some navel-gazing by Prudie and lecturing about how she’ll come to miss the harassment that she isn’t enjoying. Not to mention I feel sorry for Prudie’s daughter.

  74. Brandon, you’re done. You’re being a patronizing twit and I’ve removed your last comment for the sake of having a thread that’s actually about the topic rather than your derails. Give it a rest and find a new hobby.

  75. Oh Jeez, that’s a horrid way for someone to treat you. I’m sorry that happened. 🙁

    karak:
    @Brandon–

    I can’t think of a good reason to ask someone you love to endure painful surgery (with potential for complications) because you hate their face.

    If my partner suggested plastic surgery for me, I’d be hurt and heartbroken. He, as a “loving boyfriend” openly told his girl her face was ugly. Even if he didn’t say anything about leaving her after that, that’s the kind of thing to make a girl paranoid or upset and do things she’d normally not do, especially if she loves him.

    I had an ex repeatedly give me these little hints about how I could “look so much better” or “improve myself”. I cut my hair, changed my makeup, bought all new clothes, stopped talking about my hobbies, and stopped talking to people unless he was there so I wouldn’t “embarass” myself. And the fact he couldn’t see how distressing this whole thing was makes him a jerk. Yeah, I could have said “no”, but then he might have left me, and I loved him. It’s a natural act to try and “please” the one we love, and a careful partner keeps from taking advantage of that.

    Love doesn’t last forever, but to ask someone to undergo SURGERY for you is right up there with a promise ring in terms of commitment.

  77. Things I am grateful for today: Feministe’s resident mansplainer and excuse maker is gone! 🙂

    And also, that I too am not LW’s girlfriend.

  78. FashionablyEvil:
    Eh, Prudie is often a bit harsh.It’s her schtick.

    That and awful puns. Her advice has taken a bad turn lately. Two recent pieces have translated to, “If you both make sure to have the same story down pat, you’ll get away with having killed your unpleasant neighbour’s cat by accident and not saying anything at the time,” and, “I can’t openly come out and tell you to sell old intimate photos to a tabloid of the boy who dumped you in an insensitive way in high school when he got on the road to being a rock star and now his people want to make sure the photos don’t get out, but if I see him smeared in the National Enquirer one day I’ll be cheering.”

  79. Yes, you are a total jerk! You wanted her to get the surgery without ever considering the possible negative outcome. Then, she is disfigured and you want to bail out on her. You are at least partially responsible here, something tells me she never would have gotten the procedure had you let her know that she was lacking (in your opinion)
    Ass hole!

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