In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

So, men in shorts.

Jill

man in shortsPhoto via the Sartorialist.

Per usual, Choire is right about everything. No shorts at work. None of those horrible cargo shorts. But nice-looking well-fitting shorts? I TOTALLY SUPPORT men in those shorts. All men? No. Not all men look good in shorts. (And listen, I love jumpsuits, but I cannot wear them! I also cannot wear miniskirts! I also look REALLY BAD in shorts, because I have weird-looking legs. So men who look terrible in shorts, I feel your pain. Not everything looks good on everyone! The world is a great big beautiful place with all kinds of different-looking people and that’s a beautiful thing. So wear what you like and let’s all move on).

But men who have great legs? Ohmygod I have such a tremendous boner for great man-legs. Supposedly in some olden-times men’s legs were intensely eroticized? I can see why. Men: GREAT LEGS (often, not always). So, you know, if you’ve got ’em? WEAR SHORTS. Because goddamn. Men in shorts? MEN IN SHORTS. Yeah.

155 thoughts on So, men in shorts.

  2. At work, of course, no! Not even on a casual Friday at Casual Friday Inc.

    I wear shorts at work when weather permits or demands it. Working in software has its perks, and one is more-or-less the same dress code I had to adhere to in high school and University — “If it would get you kicked out of a McDonald’s, it’s inappropriate. Else, do as you will.”.

    ‘Course I like to think my man-legs are pretty fantastic. But I’d wear ’em even if somebody set me straight.

  4. I have only recently developed the self esteem for wearing shorts and NOW THERE IS A COLD SNAP IN LIKE THE ENTIRETY OF THE EAST COAST OF AUSTRALIA. Which is very very unfortunate.

  5. I’m confused…

    Women tell me NOT to wear shorts at work.

    Is it the hair? ‘Cause I know it’s all muscular, defined and proportional since I get my share of attention doing my jogging in the speedos…

  6. This is totally heterosexist. Jill ought to be writing more about women in shorts. Not doing so shows a failure to appreciate the political complexities of lesbianism.

    /sarcasm off

    So, what do you think of Magnum PI’s legs? He’s the main shorts-man I always think of.

  8. And listen, I love jumpsuits

    I am sorry to say that I won’t be able to continue to read Feministe because of comments like this.

  10. I’m fine with men in shorts, provided that they aren’t khaki in color (I know, silly), they don’t have pleats (I’m firm on this rule), don’t have critters of any sort on them (lobsters, anyone?) and provided that they are not shorty shorts (do I really need to see the whole thigh?). I work at an office where the mean could actually get away with wearing shorts, and yet they don’t. I just might encourage them to do so after this link.

  11. But…but…everybody knows women aren’t visual and don’t care what men look like! They’re all just golddiggers who want rich guys. Women totally don’t have sexual desires! Sitcoms and Liz Jones and evopsych have told me so!

  13. Lori: don’t have critters of any sort on them (lobsters, anyone?)

    OMFG WHALES.

    Also, I used to have great legs and then aging decided it needed to give me a touch of cellulite. I’m taking this moment to say, “FUCK YOU, CELLULITE.”

  14. Yeah, I gotta side with Kristen J. and Lori here; there are some cuts of shorts that are just awful and universally unflattering- namely the ones that used to be the most ubiquitous- that are ruining the fun for everyone. Cut is king, kids! And, just like jeans, we the people need to find the cut that suits our body type. It’s a pain in the ass to get there- christ, do I have to try on pair after pair,- but it’s *so* worth the effort in the end.

  15. My ex was a marathoner. He wore the smallest, tightest black compression shorts and he looked HOT. Yummy. Totally gorgeous. His legs and butt were magnificent. He was responsible for rekindling my interest in running and biking, just for the sheer pleasure of following along behind him watching the beauty of his body in motion.

  17. So…if we have “weird” (and this can often be code for FAT) legs, we shouldn’t wear shorts or miniskirts?

    Jill, I know you were talking about your legs in particular, there, but that’s the typical two-step of “It’s totes fine for YOU to be fat/wear that/look like that, *I* just would want to kill myself! Really!” that all women, but I think esp fat/inbetweenie women, get alllll the time.

    Clearly, no one should wear anything they aren’t comfortable with. And men with muscular legs are hot, tis true. But this kind of zeros out other body types, and taken with the “no leggings!” post from awhile back…makes me a little uncomfy with the body acceptance vibe of late.

    1. So…if we have “weird” (and this can often be code for FAT) legs, we shouldn’t wear shorts or miniskirts?

      Jill, I know you were talking about your legs in particular, there, but that’s the typical two-step of “It’s totes fine for YOU to be fat/wear that/look like that, *I* just would want to kill myself! Really!” that all women, but I think esp fat/inbetweenie women, get alllll the time.

      Clearly, no one should wear anything they aren’t comfortable with. And men with muscular legs are hot, tis true. But this kind of zeros out other body types, and taken with the “no leggings!” post from awhile back…makes me a little uncomfy with the body acceptance vibe of late.

      I wasn’t using “weird” as code for “fat.” My legs actually aren’t fat, I just personally don’t like the way they’re shaped (they’re not curvy at all, just kind of straight all the way down). And they’re short, if we want to get into the details of it. “Body acceptance” doesn’t mean “I like every part of my body equally and will not consider what does and does not flatter me.” At least, that’s not how I do body acceptance, you are welcome to do it differently.

      But I do actually wear shorts, because they are cute and comfortable. I wasn’t saying that people who don’t look perfect in things shouldn’t wear them. I was recognizing that some people, for whatever body reason, aren’t comfortable in certain types or cuts of clothing. That’s not anti-body-acceptance; it’s recognizing the reality that not everyone is comfortable in everything and hey that’s cool, just because I like shorts on men doesn’t mean that all men should wear shorts. That’s it.

  18. Recalling that Norse myth where the goddess picked her husband from among the gods on the basis of their legs alone. She wanted a badass like Thor, and chose accordingly, but it turned out that she liked the legs of the mild, milquetoastsy guy best and had to marry him instead.

  19. Legs can still be great with cellulite 😉 I have cellulite, and I think my legs are pretty awesome. It’s genetic, and honestly, if you’re interested in male-bodied persons, and their opinion matters to you, most of them don’t even know what cellulite IS.

    PrettyAmiable: OMFG WHALES.

    Also, I used to have great legs and then aging decided it needed to give me a touch of cellulite. I’m taking this moment to say, “FUCK YOU, CELLULITE.”

  20. PrettyAmiable: OMFG WHALES.

    Also, I used to have great legs and then aging decided it needed to give me a touch of cellulite. I’m taking this moment to say, “FUCK YOU, CELLULITE.”

    Um, OK, now I really want a pair of shorts with WHALES ON THEM. And I will wear them on my fatty fat thighs and NO ONE WILL STOP ME! ::runs to find some fabric::

  21. And listen, I love jumpsuits, but I cannot wear them! I also cannot wear miniskirts! […] Not everything looks good on everyone! So let’s all move on).

    By this logic I cannot wear anything. Nice to be reminded by feminist blogs that I am doing everyone a disservice by ever leaving my house.

    1. By this logic I cannot wear anything. Nice to be reminded by feminist blogs that I am doing everyone a disservice by ever leaving my house.

      Oh jesus. Saying “not everything looks good on everyone” is telling you you’re doing a disservice by leaving your house?

  22. OMFG HOW TASTELESS. No one wants to see your whale-clad thighs, Shoshie. NO ONE.

    Shoshie: Um, OK, now I really want a pair of shorts with WHALES ON THEM.And I will wear them on my fatty fat thighs and NO ONE WILL STOP ME!::runs to find some fabric::

  24. Natalia, YES. Soccer players in soccer shorts. And the tearing off of jerseys when a goal is scored… mhm…

  25. chava, in the context of your other comments in the thread (which I read but did not remember who had written) I feel confident that it was indeed just playful banter. Question withdrawn. Sorry!

  26. Oh this is hilarious to me, because my father (RIP), used to rock the shorts. Madras, chino, whatever. And whale shorts, for serious. He was a hurdler in his youth, and he had really muscular legs, and my friends used to always comment on how toned his legs were (eewww, he’s my dad!).

  27. Men: great legs? Wear shorts. Crooked legs? Wear shorts. Legs so hairy you could braid them? Wear shorts. Legs so fat you can’t see your ankles? Wear shorts. Hell, wear mini-skirts for all I care. It’s your body; your choice.

  28. My legs actually aren’t fat, I just personally don’t like the way they’re shaped (they’re not curvy at all, just kind of straight all the way down). And they’re short, if we want to get into the details of it.

    Jill, people like us were meant to stand on rocky hills in cold climates. Like mountain goats.

    don’t have critters of any sort on them (lobsters, anyone?)

    So someone bought me pregnant lady PJs? And when I wear them I feel like a giant blue floral easter egg? So I asked my husband last night how he can wear patterned pants and not feel like a total idiot. He said, “FLORENCE. THESE ARE BOXERS.”

    Oh.

    1. Jill, people like us were meant to stand on rocky hills in cold climates. Like mountain goats.

      In light of the other thread about animals, I would like to call you out for using mountain goats as a comparison. That is very insulting to the goats.

  30. k not K:
    Natalia, YES. Soccer players in soccer shorts. And the tearing off of jerseys when a goal is scored… mhm…

    Tragically, not anymore, because it has been decided that whipping off the shirt is delaying the game and now doing so results in a yellow card. *shakes fist at FIFA*

  31. Jill: In light of the other thread about animals, I would like to call you out for using mountain goats as a comparison. That is very insulting to the goats.

    But if you would TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN TO GOATS, you’d know that they agree, shorts do not look cute on them either. Universally.

  32. I wish I could wear shorts! Long pants can get a little annoying in the summer. Big thumbs to the guys who can pull it off. Live it up for the rest of us!

  33. k not K:
    Natalia, YES. Soccer players in soccer shorts. And the tearing off of jerseys when a goal is scored… mhm…

    I get irritated when they do this, because they usually get yellow cards for it. So pointless. Unless of course the opposing team does it, in which case, bring on the yellow cards. I would love for you to end up a man down because of such a stupid offense!

    Also, my favourite part of soccer is when my team (LFC) scores–particularly when Dalglish celebrates. Or when Carra physically assaults someone. Such rage.

  34. I’m sure that you weren’t using it that way, actually (no snark) I was just pointing out that it is OFTEN used that way, and can easily be read/taken/felt that way. Also, that what is and is not “flattering” is policed by a thin, white, female norm.

    Jill: I wasn’t using “weird” as code for “fat.” […] “Body acceptance” doesn’t mean “I like every part of my body equally and will not consider what does and does not flatter me.”

  35. So, as a guy, I’d like to know — what do you mean by “great legs”? My legs are reasonably muscular and a bit heftier than most guys’ legs (i.e. I don’t have thin legs like many guys do) but I am not (including my legs) in the best of shape. My legs definitely have hair on them, but are not super-duper hairy (that I am a red-head makes them look less hairy than they are).

    Are my legs good? Should I wear shorts? My wife says I should wear them more often …

    Personally, I don’t wear shorts often because I sunburn so easily. Considering the cost of sun lotion, slathering lotion all over my legs so they don’t burn ain’t cheap.

  36. Are my legs good? Should I wear shorts? My wife says I should wear them more often …

    Listen to her.

  37. I thought this was the “objectifying men” thread?

    (In a decent, seemly, non-intrusive, feminist way, of course.)

    Goats look terrible in shorts. As do cows and horses.

  38. “Great” is always going to be subjective. What one person really likes, another person may find no appeal in whatsoever. That’s why we can all have our own aesthetic opinion, but nobody gets to [justifiably] be the fashion police.

  40. Yonmei: Goats look terrible in shorts. As do cows and horses.

    It’s true, and for some reason, cows are really big into black socks with sandals.

  42. DAS: So, as a guy, I’d like to know — what do you mean by “great legs”? My legs are reasonably muscular and a bit heftier than most guys’ legs (i.e. I don’t have thin legs like many guys do) but I am not (including my legs) in the best of shape. My legs definitely have hair on them, but are not super-duper hairy (that I am a red-head makes them look less hairy than they are).

    Are my legs good? Should I wear shorts? My wife says I should wear them more often …

    For the record, my legs are super-duper hairy and they are skinny. But also, they are pretty good legs. I just don’t wear shorts that are cut for bulkier legs. Like, there are many cuts of shorts! Clothing, like bodies, is heterogeneous. So, I would: 1. Trust your wife; 2. Find shorts that look good on your legs. 3. ROCK THEM THE FUCK OUT.

  46. Professing concern over comfort is unconvincing when you’re only concerned about clothing you deem unflattering.

    1. Professing concern over comfort is unconvincing when you’re only concerned about clothing you deem unflattering.

      Yes, you got me. I secretly just hate all people who aren’t models. I am only concerned about clothing I deem unflattering. And I also hate models, because they are too tall and skinny and I would bet that most models are more comfortable in certain clothes than others. And I don’t mean “comfortable” as in “sweatpants are comfortable.” I mean “comfortable” as in “I feel good about myself when I wear this.”

      A friend on Twitter just pointed this out, but threads on Feministe are basically walking advertisements for the stereotype that feminism cannot coexist with living the real world. When every word is analyzed and the worst motives are cast on people, that’s pretty fucked up. It’s also exhausting and pointless and totally fucking stupid.

  47. I just convinced my boyfriend to buy shorts. It took me a year but he finally tried them on and realised for himself that he looks insanely hot in them. Phew.

  49. Roisin:
    I just convinced my boyfriend to buy shorts. It took me a year but he finally tried them on and realised for himself that he looks insanely hot in them. Phew.

    Alas, after 10 years of cajoling I have still not convinced M that he looks hot in shorts. Around the house, he’ll wear them…but he considers them Not. Public. Attire. (Yeah, he says attire.)

  50. Jill, at this point maybe you should consider just posting randomly generated internet pictures to see what argumentation or suggestive faux-sarcasm ensues.

    As usual La Lubu got it right: goats look great in curry shorts.

  51. Kristen J.: Alas, after 10 years of cajoling I have still not convinced M that he looks hot in shorts. Around the house, he’ll wear them…but he considers them Not. Public. Attire. (Yeah, he says attire.)

    Since all the het-ladies on Feministe have an e-crush on M, let him know he is decidedly wrong.

    Jill: A friend on Twitter just pointed this out, but threads on Feministe are basically walking advertisements for the stereotype that

    feminists are humorless. I know, right?

  52. I have know a number of men who are insecure about their legs…not because they are fat, but because their calves are “too skinny.” I personally don’t give a rats ass if a guy has skinny legs. But guys care because maybe some kind of competitive machismo thing? Whatever. Wear shorts, wear a kilt, whatever. It’s ok, I promise. I would also like to take this opportunity to say that kilts are pretty damn sexy, imho.

  54. Am I the only one that reads feministe comments STRICTLY to see how wildly offended people can get over things like shorts?

    Because it is some serious schadenfreude.

    (Also, the non-aghast are pretty funny, so it’s like a win all around!)

  55. Kristen J.: Alas, after 10 years of cajoling I have still not convinced M that he looks hot in shorts. Around the house, he’ll wear them…but he considers them Not. Public. Attire. (Yeah, he says attire.)

    I’m hoping that my partner-in-time is lurking on this thread and will realize that he should bust out the shorts this summer. If he chooses to, of course. I know he owns a few pairs. There is absolutely no reason to wear your Woody Allen uniform when you have to spend time on 105-degree subway platforms.

  56. Cate: I have know a number of men who are insecure about their legs…not because they are fat, but because their calves are “too skinny.” I personally don’t give a rats ass if a guy has skinny legs. But guys care because maybe some kind of competitive machismo thing?

    Yes. The guys I know who have this seem to attribute the shame to high school gym class, so I can relate, because high school gym class definitely made me feel weird about my body.

  57. Florence: Since all the het-ladies on Feministe have an e-crush on M, let him know he is decidedly wrong.

    feminists are humorless.I know, right?

    Do we? I haven’t been informed of this. I’m sure M is lovely, but… can I at least know who I’m supposed to be e-crushing on?

  58. Tawny @58:

    Am I the only one that reads feministe comments STRICTLY to see how wildly offended people can get over things like shorts?

    Pwned! I was just about to say the same thing. Also, your comment offends me and my goat companion.

  61. While I do appreciate the ummmm appreciation of the male figure here – I do feel slightly uncomfortable about a couple of things. For one – that we are ok associating whether or not someone should wear shorts with the external viewing pleasure of another party. Second , this article has a strong objectifying feel to it. Do we care about the mind, the body and the personhood of the individual in the photo? Isn’t decontextualizing sa person from their body what feminism isn’t about?

    1. For one – that we are ok associating whether or not someone should wear shorts with the external viewing pleasure of another party.

      No. I’m not the arbitrator of who looks good in what. My point was, I like men in shorts. If you are a man who reads that and you’re like, “But I look terrible in shorts!” then my secondary point is, “Hey that’s cool! I look terrible in shorts too. So, you know, don’t wear things if you don’t feel good in them.”

      Second , this article has a strong objectifying feel to it. Do we care about the mind, the body and the personhood of the individual in the photo? Isn’t decontextualizing sa person from their body what feminism isn’t about?

      Well no, I’m not sure that’s what feminism is or isn’t about. Admiring someone’s physical body is not Doing Feminism Wrong, in my opinion.

  63. @melissa Yup, you’re right. But baiting you into making such painfully correct(ive) statements is even more fun than objectifying men with tasty, tasty legs.

  64. Tawny:
    Am I the only one that reads feministe comments STRICTLY to see how wildly offended people can get over things like shorts?

    Well, this site does claim it is for the sanctimonious women’s studies set …

  65. Second , this article has a strong objectifying feel to it. Do we care about the mind, the body and the personhood of the individual in the photo?

    NO. Ha. I’m kidding.

    There is a lot of theory on The Gaze, and one of the primary elements of said theory is that men, sexualized or not, hold patriarchal power, period. Women’s power in the patriarchy is partly attributed to their power to hold/maintain The Gaze. Thus a woman’s gaze is impotent.

    Not to mention that it’s a little troublesome to enforce more chaste sexual ideals on feminist women.

  66. I’ve been told I have nice legs, for whatever it’s worth. Fashion for me has often been kind of burdensome, mostly because I have moderately decent taste, but fashion do’s and don’ts usually leave me exhausted.

    Though it would be an obscene luxury, if I had the money, I would probably hire someone, maybe even a designer, to make me look my best. I’d never want to dress outlandishly, but I do know that someone with a practiced eye could improve the way I look.

  67. This is a refreshing change. As much as I try to only wear what I think might look good, I’m always impressed in how much effort women put into their own physical appearance or evaluating the physical appearance of other women. If anything, there should be more fashion advice for men, telling us what to wear, and possibly less for women.

  68. Comrade Kevin: I’ve been told I have nice legs, for whatever it’s worth. Fashion for me has often been kind of burdensome, mostly because I have moderately decent taste, but fashion do’s and don’ts usually leave me exhausted. Though it would be an obscene luxury, if I had the money, I would probably hire someone, maybe even a designer, to make me look my best. I’d never want to dress outlandishly, but I do know that someone with a practiced eye could improve the way I look.

    I’ve had this thought too! Not some super artsy fashion designer, but more like just a personal advisor. Like, I want to look good, but I don’t want to spend the time thinking about fashion that I spend thinking about more nerdy stuff.

  69. Well I for one am deeply disappointed with this thread.

    75 comments and no one has mentioned how great swimmer’s legs are.

    1. Well I for one am deeply disappointed with this thread.

      75 comments and no one has mentioned how great swimmer’s legs are.

      If it makes you feel any better, I was just having a g-chat conversation with someone about that.

  70. Tawny – count me in too. Though its hard to walk around so.many.fainting.couches, the wildly hilarious stuff like this : ::shakes whale-clad booty in front of chava::

    makes it alllllllllll worth it.

  71. First, shorts are not public attire. Shorts must be worn without socks. Socks should always be worn with covered shoes (moral imperative). Covered shoes must be worn unless you are okay with strange tan-lines on your feet.

    Second, fashion is burdensome. My wardrobe includes jeans, tshirts, and athletic pants. I’m happily unfashionable – which is a better explanation than the above for why I don’t wear shorts.

    1. First, shorts are not public attire. Shorts must be worn without socks. Socks should always be worn with covered shoes (moral imperative). Covered shoes must be worn unless you are okay with strange tan-lines on your feet.

      Look at the man in the picture! You can totally wear cute little shoes without socks (or with those low socks that you can’t see). Problem solved!

  72. I still say kilts are sexiest on men – regardless of that man’s physical attributes or condition. It works on every single one of them.

    And I’m not just saying that because my neighbor’s delectable teddy-bear husband struts around the neighborhood playing bagpipes.

  73. Jill: If it makes you feel any better, I was just having a g-chat conversation with someone about that.

    It’s a start, but they have such great legs that public recognition is clearly in order.

  75. Jill: Look at the man in the picture! You can totally wear cute little shoes without socks (or with those low socks that you can’t see). Problem solved!

    So I’ve been told. I am skeptical; however, since I’ve been informed that I do in fact own both canvas loafers and casual shorts, I will wear them to take my lovely wife out for lunch.

  76. “At work, of course, no!”

    Well, screw you, says I. Fuck dress codes. Everywhere, for everyone, for everything.
    If you want to come work in shorts, in a skirt, in a dress, in whatever, whichever gender, you should be able to do it.

    Fuck dress codes.

  77. For those who like their menz in shortz, may I suggest surfers and other water-sports enthusiasts? Be forewarned, surfers may be inclined to wear shorts and sandals year round, in all weather conditions not involving temps below 25F or 6″ of snow. Proving again that the difference between virtue and vice is one of degree.

    I have a friend from Edmonton Ca who can rhapsodize, haiku slam, freestyle rap, and otherwise wax poetic on the glories of hockey players’ legs and butt.

  78. I work at a place that allows shorts of the appropriate length in warm weather, and flip-flops on fridays. Sadly my one coworker I thought was hot quit, so I will never get to see what his legs look like. Rats! Fortunately, my boyfriend has long, hairy, skinny, strong runner’s legs and he LOVES wearing shorts. I have big, fat, lumpy, white fatty fat legs and I still love wearing shorts because comfy.

  79. DrMcCoy: If you want to come work in shorts, in a skirt, in a dress, in whatever, whichever gender, you should be able to do it.

    Can you please convince the CEO of my company of that?

  80. Tawny: Am I the only one that reads feministe comments STRICTLY to see how wildly offended people can get over things like shorts?

    Nope. That’s been my reason for doing so for some time now (unless there’s something that I actually want to say). The things people manage to get pissed about are astounding.

    1. Per usual, Choire is right about everything.

      No.

      Good comment! You seem really great, definitely comment again.

  83. Err, I’m sorry but I don’t understand what people mean when they say great legs: are they referring to bodybuilder tree trunks? soccer player legs? football player legs? basketball player legs? The man in the above picture’s legs seem fairly average, as in, I think most relatively active men will have legs like that, they hardly seem “GREAT.”

    And lots of men don’t wear “nice-looking well-fitting” shorts because there are so few of them; most of them just look rather boy-ish and not modern, which I think is why most males give them up after like age 15.

  84. IrishUp:

    I have a friend from Edmonton Ca who can rhapsodize, haiku slam, freestyle rap, and otherwise wax poetic on the glories of hockey players’ legs and butt.

    Oh, my, god, yes.

  85. The whole “shorts look good on SOME people” thing isn’t so much offensive to me as it is just weird and confusing. I’m from Arizona and it’s so effing hot during the summer that EVERYONE wears shorts. I never encountered any manner of shorts-snobbery until I moved east.

  86. Am I the only one that reads feministe comments STRICTLY to see how wildly offended people can get over things like shorts?

    Not only do I do this, I’m considering starting my own blog, based on this concept, called fuckyeahcircularfiringsquads.tumblr.com.

  87. I absolutely have a thing about men with great legs.
    I actually tell people this all the time — I don’t have any room in my life for a man with skinny ankles. Makes me hungry. Makes me think I need to protect him, which I’m fine with, but it’s a huge turn off.
    Need a man with some nice, proportionate legs. Thick calves, good, strong ankles. Showing off in MAN SHORTS!!

  88. I run this blog, and that’s basically why I still read the comments.

    I am offended by this for reasons that I will invent immediately!!!!!

  89. I’m offended that people are offended at the offences of the offended…..can I get my feminist cookie now?

  90. Tom Foolery: ot only do I do this, I’m considering starting my own blog, based on this concept, called fuckyeahcircularfiringsquads.tumblr.com.

    Please do it. Please.

  91. Well, while I’m sure there is something I should be offended about, I’ve decided instead to appreciate peer pressure and its effect on the USian male. It resulted in a romantic lunch during which I got to ogle my SO’s legs.

  92. Kristen J.: Well, while I’m sure there is something I should be offended about, I’ve decided instead to appreciate peer pressure and its effect on the USian male. It resulted in a romantic lunch during which I got to ogle my SO’s legs.

    In the thread from hell, where I said blogs were crappy activism: I stand corrected.

  93. Swimmers? Whatever. Male GYMNASTS have the best legs. Yum.

    Also, no, I do not care about the personhood of that guy in the photo. But he doesn’t look that upset about my lack of caring…

  94. chava:
    So…if we have “weird” (and this can often be code for FAT) legs, we shouldn’t wear shorts or miniskirts?

    Jill, I know you were talking about your legs in particular, there, but that’s the typical two-step of “It’s totes fine for YOU to be fat/wear that/look like that, *I* just would want to kill myself!Really!” that all women, but I think esp fat/inbetweenie women, get alllll the time.

    Clearly, no one should wear anything they aren’t comfortable with.And men with muscular legs are hot, tis true.But this kind of zeros out other body types, and taken with the “no leggings!” post from awhile back…makes me a little uncomfy with the body acceptance vibe of late.

    This is exactly what I thought after I read this. What quantifies “normal” legs as opposed to “weird” legs? The language of this post is really troublesome.

  95. “This is exactly what I thought after I read this. What quantifies “normal” legs as opposed to “weird” legs? The language of this post is really troublesome.”

    Blogging is now complete. Would the last person out please turn out the lights?

  97. Err, I’m sorry but I don’t understand what people mean when they say great legs: are they referring to bodybuilder tree trunks? soccer player legs? football player legs? basketball player legs?

    Is this what you ask when some dude mentions some lady having great legs?

    What am I saying, of course it is.

  98. But if you want a serious answer, what constitutes a great leg on a human, is a shapely ankle and a well-turned calf.

  99. Speaking on behalf of my companion cow, I’m offended by the suggestion that some calves are not well-turned.

  100. Jill: Good comment! You seem really great, definitely comment again.

    LOL. If there’s anything positive about the recent influx of Hating On Jill, it’s that your responses are friggin hilarious.

  102. As usual Jill, you have deeply offended me. I shant be back, until tomorrow, when I will read whatever you have to say (no matter the topic) and become offended and flounce once again.

  103. I have frequently maintained that more men should wear skirts, if nothing else because they’re so bloody comfortable.  I have this skirt (that I bought 10 years ago from Hot Topic, wat) that I swear can make any man look good.

    April:

    If there’s anything positive about the recent influx of Hating On Jill, it’s that your responses are friggin hilarious.

    +15^2

  105. Tawny:
    Am I the only one that reads feministe comments STRICTLY to see how wildly offended people can get over things like shorts?

    Because it is some serious schadenfreude.

    (Also, the non-aghast are pretty funny, so it’s like a win all around!)

    No, you’re not.

  106. I don’t do shorts, except for when playing soccer. Living in Oakland, it’s never really hot enough to wear them, anyway, so it’s not as if I am missing out or anything. But the last time I was in Hawaii, I was dying walking around in my long pants, so I went looking for some shorts. All I could find were ones that said “Aloha” across the back, which just seemed a little to chatty for my ass.

    Anyway, I have always had a thing for guys in plaid shorts. Always. And while swimmers and soccer players do have nice legs, I only really break for the gold medal of the athlete’s body part olympics – the Baseball Player Butt. Two words hetero gals and queer fellas – Buster Posey.

    And Jill, keep doing what you do.

  107. Jill, frivolous posts like this one distract from real issues and leave me wondering if you even give a damn about addressing human suffering.

    Take my suffering, for example.

    I agree that the man in the photo looks good in shorts. I’m even with you on his adorable little off-white canvas shoes.

    But his cardigan. Sweet Jesus, his cardigan. Can feminists in 2011 agree that it’s time to leave sweaters that look like crocheted bathrobes from mid-chest up in the last millennium?

    1. But his cardigan. Sweet Jesus, his cardigan. Can feminists in 2011 agree that it’s time to leave sweaters that look like crocheted bathrobes from mid-chest up in the last millennium?

      Noooo the only thing I love more than men in shorts is men in cardigans!

  108. tricia:

    But his cardigan. Sweet Jesus, his cardigan. Can feminists in 2011 agree that it’s time to leave sweaters that look like crocheted bathrobes from mid-chest up in the last millennium?

    That cardigan owns. You are clearly not a Real Feminist!

  109. Peggyluwho, you have to find your way to a legitimate surf shop next time as opposed to the tourist traps. When I lived there, I definitely didn’t see a lot of locals walking around with “ALOHA” plastered across their asses. Although it’s a friendly sentiment, for sure!

  110. Why are we talking about shorts?! If we were real feminists, we would be talking about yoga pants.

    The topic of this post is very troubling.

    Also? Not a fan of the cardigan.

  111. Um, yeah. Riiight. See, this is exactly what I mean is that we owe each other respect as feminists – but not validation. For example, currently being a Nice Pregnant Lady (TM) in her last trimester basically means that I am self-conscious about wearing certain things. When I express my feelings of self-consciousness, am I encouraging other Nice Pregnant Ladies (TM) to feel the same? No, goddamit! I am merely saying – this is how I feel, and I’m not going to apologize for it. Even while not pregnant – I happen to think, for example, that I look horrible in orange. I don’t think it flatters me or my hair or my eyes or my skin tone. Does this mean that I believe that everyone else who has similar hair, and eyes and skin tone should never wear orange? NO, GODDAMIT!

    Do we care about the mind, the body and the personhood of the individual in the photo?

    Couldn’t care less, actually.

    I couldn’t care less about the mind or the personhood of the baby daddy when I first met him either. I did care about his body, because I was wondering what he would look like naked.

    Also, I am deeply offended that butt-shorts with logos have yet to make an appearance on this thread. Rectifying that grievious wrong now. (It was when we won the NCAA, so it was allowed. Haters know where to kiss me.)

  112. The assistant business manager of my Local has several cardigans just like that one, in a variety of colors. When he first showed up at the Hall in one of ’em, I said, “Oh…look! It’s Mr. Rogers!!” Unfortunately, that did not influence his sartorial proclivities (if I recall correctly, the response was “fuck you”), and he has since passed on his elements of style to the business manager (who has at least two cardigans).

    *sigh*

  114. @Natalia: I absolutely read that as “Mr. Rogers has some ass!” and I found myself thinking “Well, yes, he wasn’t bad looking, I never did get a good look at his ass though”.

    Also, I am horribly offended for the poor sock manufacturers who are clearly being mocked and disregarded by the photo of this sockless man!

  115. Dan: These were me and my legs last weekend. It’s really hard to find anything that (a) fits and (b) looks decent besides jeans. What do you think, give shorts a shot this summer?

    I happen to think all guy legs look great, so my opinion is always going to be yes. (I actually can’t really think of anyone or any body type on dudes that I don’t enjoy in shorts). But an I say – holy shit! Thigh muscles! Color me impressed.

  116. Jill, please try not to be discouraged by the weird policing you have been getting in the comments. There are a lot of lurkers and mostly-lurkers like me who really appreciate your work.

  117. Jill, please try not to be discouraged by the weird policing you have been getting in the comments. There are a lot of lurkers and mostly-lurkers like me who really appreciate your work.

    Me too. I find the comment threads lately to be both hilarious and kind of horrifying. And yet highly entertaining in some way I can’t quite put my finger on.

    Also, this. Scroll down to the picture with the Queen.

  119. “At work, of course, no!”

    Jill, you classist. Not everyone works in an office.

    Though some of us do, and the visit from the UPS guy with the very nice calves from hauling packages up and down stairs is the highlight of our day.

    We do like those UPS summer uniforms.

  120. zuzu: Jill, you classist.Not everyone works in an office.

    Though some of us do, and the visit from the UPS guy with the very nice calves from hauling packages up and down stairs is the highlight of our day.

    We do like those UPS summer uniforms.

    I have to say, working in the tech world, there’s no taboo about shorts in the office. Or hoodies. Thank the heavens I get to wear my hoodies I’m nothing without them. Nothing, I tell you.

  121. Supposedly in some olden-times men’s legs were intensely eroticized?

    Yup–in the Renaissance, men danced with their feet turned upward to make their calves look as big as possible.

  122. Dan:
    These were me and my legs last weekend. It’s really hard to find anything that (a) fits and (b) looks decent besides jeans. What do you think, give shorts a shot this summer?

    Probably. I used to do a lot of weight training, which made my thighs practically double in size, and it became impossible to find pants that would accommodate both my newly buff thighs, and my unchanged and suddenly un-proportionate waist. Good luck!

    Also, re: guys in skirts: HOT. Seriously. Guys need to wear skirts. More guys, more skirts, all the time. This taboo needs to end pronto, because guys in skirts are my favorite.

  124. zuzu: Jill, you classist.Not everyone works in an office.

    That’s the one thing that rocks about being unemployed. NAKED AS I WANNA BE.

  125. Hey this is a pleasant coincidence. Ginny at The Brunette’s Blog has a goes-well-with-this post. It’s a meditation on the way women saying “hubba hubba” about men is received differently from men saying “hubba hubba” about women.

    I just stumbled across her blog a few days ago. She and her recently FTM-trans sibling think about stuff like this a lot. (Their blog tagline is “Two siblings write about religion, gender, philosophy, and sex.”)

    I despair of wearing shorts this year — for me or anyone else in Seattle where it’s been 194 days since temperatures have hit 70 degrees. Which might be all the clue anyone needs for why despite all that Seattle has the highest per-capita consumption of sunglasses in the U.S. When Ballardites finally do put on shorts the pallid glare of 10,000 minty-green Swedish legs in our signature blacklisted-by-Choire cargo shorts can be blinding.

    But just in case I bought a nice pair of tastefully closed-toed Naot sandals. My partner, who I think likes my legs, said they’re “a little dressier” than my regular Keens sandals. Although I’m not sure exactly what occasions call for dress sandals.

    figleaf

  127. Amen to guys with nice legs wearing shorts of a personally flattering sort! I also agree with many of the other posters that soccer players tend to have very nicely developed posterior chains (the musculature from the lower back through the glutes and hams) and cyclists tend to have nice quads. I also appreciate well-shaped and muscular calves on a guy…guys, you totally should be proud of your awesome calves and I bet you’ve NEVER even given them a passing thought!

    Men in kilts are also totally hot, especially when they can dance, ala traditional Scottish folk dances or any other kind of partner dance…*swoon*

  128. Kaija, you lose that bet. I *love* my calves and they are totally the best part of my leg. They tend to be shown off best in skinny leg jeans though.

  129. @PrettyAmiable Thank you!

    @April Tell me about it. Safe to say a 1:1 thigh/waist circumference ratio is not what most clothing designers have in mind.

    @Kaija I got to wear a kilt (well a sport kilt) when I competed in Highland Games when I lived in the UK, and I’m seriously tempted to import the look to Brooklyn as everyday wear.

  133. zuzu:
    Just a tip, though: if you’re going to wear your kilt in Brooklyn, watch out for the subway grates.

    Well that is wisdom. Be seeing you.

  135. This thread makes me sad. I always had tennis legs, and still do as far as mere shape goes. But about five years ago an encounter with some poisonous plant resulted in my acquiring noticeable bald spots on each leg. Now I can no longer show them in public without expecting to be laughed out of the company. Ah, well. They had a good run.

  136. @Douglas: I know this is unusual/non-normative, but have you considered shaving your legs?

    ks:
    Me too.I find the comment threads lately to be both hilarious and kind of horrifying.And yet highly entertaining in some way I can’t quite put my finger on.

    Agreed, it is entertaining in some ways.

  137. Tony: I know this is unusual/non-normative, but have you considered shaving your legs?

    Oh yes please! I’ve proclaimed my love of hipster cyclist guys here before (and their legs and their asses) but my first foray into bike love was staring at the shaved calves of the guys I raced with. HOT!

  138. Tricia, I’m with you. There are few things less attractive to me on a man than a cardigan. The only things less attracive: pleated khakis or a quilted coat. I work with a hot man, and once, he wore a cardigan to the office. I couldn’t hide my displeasure. I told him. I still feel guilty about it. And he’s never worn it to work again. Anyway, so Jill and I will have to disagree on this one. Bring on the men in (non-pleated, non-short-shorty, non-crittery) shorts. But noooo to the cardigans.

    1. Jill and I will have to disagree on this one. Bring on the men in (non-pleated, non-short-shorty, non-crittery) shorts. But noooo to the cardigans.

      YOU ARE BANNED.

  140. Tony – Thanks for asking. I did consider it, but it felt too much as if it would appear to be a deliberate statement. If there were a gender scale similar to the Kinsey scale with Cis at 0 and Trans at 6, I’d probably be between 1.2 and 1.5, and deliberately shaved legs would probably put me up to at least 2. I hope I haven’t offended anyone; this is just the simplest explanation.

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