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Are yoga pants appropriate for work?

Jill

lulu lemon yoga pants
It is a true fact that Lulu Lemon yoga pants make your butt look really good, which may or may not be appropriate for work, depending on your job.

So should you wear yoga pants to work? It depends; do you work at a yoga studio? Then that’s ok. Or are you a busy mom who sacrifices dignity for comfort? That is not ok.

Elastic may well be a feminist issue; the problem, said Stacy London, a host of “What Not to Wear” on TLC and a style correspondent for the “Today Show” on NBC, is that women, especially busy mothers, are sacrificing dignity for comfort. “A pair of jeans with a zipper and a button takes a nanosecond longer, and it says, ‘Hey. I’m important, too. It’s not just about my kids,’ ” Ms. London said. “You’re telling your kids you matter, and you’re setting yourself up as a role mode for them — that you always need to have a certain amount of self-respect and put a certain amount of care into your appearance.”

I do not wear yoga pants to work. This is because I am a role model for the children I do not have, and something something self-respect girlpower mompower.

Also since when are jeans appropriate for more formal (or business-casual) workplaces? Is “it’s ok if it has a zipper and a button” the new rule for office attire?

Thanks for the link-bait, Neil.

107 thoughts on Are yoga pants appropriate for work?

  1. The zipper-and-button argument calls into question the appropriateness of jeggings in the workplace. To both yoga pants and jeggings, unless you work in a store selling the respective products, I say no.

  2. If you are just putting on pants so you can be a good role model or whatever how is that prioritizing yourself? It’s just one more thing you have to do for your kids’ benefit. I don’t go out in public in yoga pants because I have self respect, I don’t do it because I don’t want any shit about it from anyone.

  3. The more I think about it, the more I’m for stripping all clothes of their inherent “meaning”. Dress codes should be for safety only and beyond that it shouldn’t matter because the clothes do not make the person. Take a professional in a suit and put them in pjs and do they suddenly become less capable? Clothes are too often used as warfare, especially for women and poor people.

  4. I demand a thorough feminist analysis of the fashion industry and also women’s struggles in the workforce and also parents vs non-parents and also butts!!!!

    Stacy is one of those people I really wish I could like more than I do. She’s funny and charming sometimes, and I dig what I like to interpret as her “fuck you world” gray streak…but then lordy, sometimes she says such dumb shit, and she also can’t seem to accept that not everyone likes exactly what she likes. On WNTW you are not allowed to dislike a color or pattern that she likes, otherwise you’re SO CRAZY AND SILLY WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU. I mean, obvs the point of the show was for them to foist their fashion sense on people, but…look, some people just don’t like brown and never will. I am one of them.

  5. Don’t forget the *real* reason she rejects yoga pants:

    Ms. London says she is horrified that squishy-midriffed women often substitute yoga pants or leggings for proper shapewear — providing a front-row seat, so to speak, to women’s rear ends and thighs. “The problem in general is that the cut is not very flattering,” she said. “They’re meant for movement, but even if you’ve got the best body in the world, they show every lump, bump, curve and ripple.”

  7. I work in my house. Am I not a feminist if I wear yoga pants when no one sees me all day anyway?

    Also, those yoga pants are way cuter than my jeans. SO CONFUSED.

  9. Can we talk about leggings?

    1) Leggings are not pants. Leggings are the dickeys of dresses/skirts/long tunics & tees.
    2) All flesh-colored leggings should be outlawed.
    3) Grey leggings should not be allowed at the gym because they show crotch sweat like whoa.

  10. Ok, I have to ask, how often do people really wear leggings as pants pants? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in the wild, though I’ve seen a billion leggings under dresses and tunic-length tops. I hear it complained about a lot though.

    1. Ok, I have to ask, how often do people really wear leggings as pants pants? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in the wild, though I’ve seen a billion leggings under dresses and tunic-length tops. I hear it complained about a lot though.

      Oh I see it a lot. Sunday morning in New York is a virtual camel show.

  11. I’m wearing yoga pants right now. But I’m 39 weeks pregnant and a SAHM, so I’ll wear whatever the fuck I want. Especially since they’re pretty much the only thing that fits these days.

  12. The new battle cry of ladies who want the option of wearing jeans in their workplaces, “Hey! At least they’re not YOGA PANTS!!!!@1!”

  13. I could make a feminist argument in favor of more publicly visible labia (WHY DO YOU HATE LABIA, JILL?) but I shan’t.

  14. ElleDee:
    Ok, I have to ask, how often do people really wear leggings as pants pants? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in the wild, though I’ve seen a billion leggings under dresses and tunic-length tops. I hear it complained about a lot though.

    Tons of women in SF wear leggings. Plenty of them also wear what are actually tights and I don’t know if they realize it or not – that they are wearing something as pants that is completely sheer on their asses, and with a cropped top the whole world behind you can see your underwear and/or butt depending on the underwear.

    Every time I see that, I want to scream TIGHTS ARE NOT PANTS.

  15. Amy: I’m wearing yoga pants right now. But I’m 39 weeks pregnant and a SAHM, so I’ll wear whatever the fuck I want. Especially since they’re pretty much the only thing that fits these days.

    Right on, sister. I’m 25 weeks pregnant and I’m so thick from the waist down that work slacks are a joke. I’m wondering whether I can convince me coworkers that those yoga gauchos count as work pants once the weather warms up.

  16. I don’t think it’s appropriate for anyone to wear pants to work that allow bystanders to count the number and configuration of your pubic hairs, testicles or labia.

  18. ElleDee:
    The more I think about it, the more I’m for stripping all clothes of their inherent “meaning”. Dress codes should be for safety only and beyond that it shouldn’t matter because the clothes do not make the person. Take a professional in a suit and put them in pjs and do they suddenly become less capable? Clothes are too often used as warfare, especially for women and poor people.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. As a poor person, this is so true. It is appalling how much of my tax return goes every year to attempting to keep up with the expectations of working at a law office, money that could be better spent elsewhere. And I know, in every fiber of my being, that I don’t look as nice as the lawyers or the clients. (We do corporate work.) So it’s just a big shame spiral of “my jackets are sagging, this fabric isn’t very nice, this cheap sweater is pilling already and on and on and on”. Trust me, poor people know we look poor. We just can’t do much about it.

    Also, as a disabled person in constant pain, I can tell you that “it’s comfortable” is not an excuse, it’s the most important thing ever to someone who is in terrible pain all the time. At least with clothes, I can control one more cause of pain. So I’m not arguing with someone who wears comfortable clothes in public. For all I know, that is the only thing they could bear to put on their body that day and they don’t need me giving them shit about it.

  19. I have worn yoga pants a majority of the past 2 weeks. Except when I wore my skirt with a yoga pant waistband. They aren’t even fancy yoga pants. My future babies are very disappointed.

  20. ElleDee:
    Ok, I have to ask, how often do people really wear leggings as pants pants? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in the wild, though I’ve seen a billion leggings under dresses and tunic-length tops. I hear it complained about a lot though.

    I lived through the ’90s. I actually wore stirrup leggings (which are not that great, akshully, if you’re tall). The ’90s seem to be coming back (Exhibit A: Jill’s dream romper). Oh, it happens. It happens.

  21. Of course, the minute a mom puts on jeans, they become “mom jeans” and are the biggest fashion faux pas possible. And moms are always getting harrassed for wearing jeans and not dressing better and not caring about themselves and blah blah. Can’t win.

  22. I wore dress pants to class today. Of course, they’re from Goodwill and the only reason I wore them was because I was all out of pants, but I feel this ought to give me some kind of points from Stacy London. Maybe if I collect enough points, I can keep my yoga pants and my jeggings without sacrificing my dignity?

  23. Seriously, clothes are like traditional table settings: Just another way for rich/higher-class people to turn up their noses at the poorer/lower-class people. It’s idiotic. If you look presentable, you’re comfortable, and you can move to do your job, who cares? (Seriously, SAHMs should wear whatever works, damn the rest of the world! Keeping up with kids is hard work.)

    Which brings me to a pet peeve regarding our department head’s insistence that we all dress “professionally.” That makes sense for him; his job entails meeting with government officials and shuffling paperwork. I, on the other hand, spend 7 days out of 10 sitting on the floor painting with small children or dangling half out of the kiln coated in fire-paper ash. (Let me tell you what tempera paint does to patent leather heels.) It makes NO SENSE to buy and ruin nice things. So this entire office has started living in extremely washable clothes that look fairly nice, and we just pray that Mr. Three-Piece-Suit doesn’t notice.

  24. ElleDee:
    The more I think about it, the more I’m for stripping all clothes of their inherent “meaning”. Dress codes should be for safety only and beyond that it shouldn’t matter because the clothes do not make the person. Take a professional in a suit and put them in pjs and do they suddenly become less capable? Clothes are too often used as warfare, especially for women and poor people.

    Ditto, Seriously!

    Are you all saying that only fashionistas who spend time worrying about their appearance are feminists? That’s a little like saying someone who chooses to be a stay-at-home-Mom can’t be a feminist. Hell, I consider myself to be a feminist, and I have in point of fact been barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen…because that’s where I wanted to be (I planned my pregnancy, love to cook, especially when I’m stressed out…and at the time, my feet HURT.)

    I thought feminism was about the right to choose what kind of woman you want to be, and to not bow to pressure from someone else’s idea of womanhood – whoever that might be.

    Thanks for the fashion tip, but please let me make my own choices when it comes to how I can dress or what I can do with my life (and you might want to reconsider what said dress or life choice says about my level of self-respect. No worries; it’s up there.)

  25. I have watched WNTW. It drives me nuts that London is always screaming “YOU’RE A GIRL!” Thanks for clarifying, but my question is, “So?”

  26. Frankly, I don’t see Jill’s argument. If I want to wear yoga pants I will wear them. Why should comfort be any less dignified than uncomfortable? I don’t see the sacrifice.

    Come to that, why can men go topless but women have to cover up? They get to be comfortable but we can’t? If I have rolls of fat are they less attractive than some man’s publicly displayed moobs?

    1. Frankly, I don’t see Jill’s argument. If I want to wear yoga pants I will wear them. Why should comfort be any less dignified than uncomfortable? I don’t see the sacrifice.

      Huh? That wasn’t my argument.

  27. Dress code rules are ALWAYS much harsher and judgmental on women over men. Dudes have it so easy. Fall into dress pants and a dress shirt: Hey! You look “professional.”

    So do I wear yoga pants and jeggings at my super casual feminist-oriented nonprofit job? HELL YES! Now, I’m smart about it so I “dress to my day” (in other words, important meetings means dressier clothes.) But if I’ve got a day of curriculum writing at my desk ahead of me, you better believe I dress in whatever the hell makes me comfortable. Thank goodness my coworkers do the same and we all reserve judgment and clothes snarking.

  28. Frankly, I don’t see Jill’s argument. If I want to wear yoga pants I will wear them. Why should comfort be any less dignified than uncomfortable? I don’t see the sacrifice.

    You mean Stacy’s argument, I assume? Typo?

  29. Jill: Huh? That wasn’t my argument.

    So “virtual camel show” is not classist in any way? Maybe some people like the way they’re dressed or don’t view clothing the way you do or can’t afford better. Dismissing the way theyre dressed as ZOMG! I can’t believe I have to see that is a bit, well, classist, among other things. Never mind that it’s veering dangerously close to She Deserved It and Slut Shaming.

    1. You know, I had a bet with a friend to see how soon someone would freak out on this thread. I guessed within 10 comments of my saying “virtual camel show.” I was close, so thanks!

      And no, pointing out that you can see the outlines of a person’s vulva when they wear tight leggings is not classist. How in god’s name is that classist when women of all different income levels wear leggings, which are currently a fairly trendy clothing item? It’s also not “She Deserved It” or “Slut-Shaming.” Seriously. It is saying, there are certain items of clothing that need to be layered. You can walk down the street in Spanx if you want to, but I’m going to think, “That looks weird, you look like a tan sausage.” And you can walk down the street topless if you want to, but I’m going to think “I can see your boobs.” Those observations do not equal “If you get raped it’s your fault” or “You are a slut.” They do equal, “I can see your _____.”

      Jesus H Christ.

  30. Another reason for yoga pants to work: I have chronic pain and mobility issues, and some days, yoga pants = the only lower-body clothing item that gives me sufficient range of motion (and for me, motion is related to pain levels) to be functional at my job. Keeling over in pain and crying is not inherently more dignified than wearing yoga pants to work, so I’m not sure I buy the Stacy-created dividing line as anything approaching general truth.

  32. Jill:
    You know, I had a bet with a friend to see how soon someone would freak out on this thread. I guessed within 10 comments of my saying “virtual camel show.” I was close, so thanks!

    And no, pointing out that you can see the outlines of a person’s vulva when they wear tight leggings is not classist. How in god’s name is that classist when women of all different income levels wear leggings, which are currently a fairly trendy clothing item? It’s also not “She Deserved It” or “Slut-Shaming.” Seriously. It is saying, there are certain items of clothing that need to be layered. You can walk down the street in Spanx if you want to, but I’m going to think, “That looks weird, you look like a tan sausage.” And you can walk down the street topless if you want to, but I’m going to think “I can see your boobs.” Those observations do not equal “If you get raped it’s your fault” or “You are a slut.” They do equal, “I can see your _____.”

    Jesus H Christ.

    On Cake Wrecks, they refer to this sort of thing as an Epcot.

  35. It’s a weird argument to make that we should be more serious than pretty things. There is social criticism active and available in all kinds of art forms, including sartorial. I don’t find it surprising that someone who likes clothes and lives in the fashion capital of the world has something to say about our collective sartorial choices, so I find it weird when people hop on Jill for having things to say about clothes. Fashion isn’t 100% about all things rich and able, it’s also about art and thrift and personal expression. All people have a seat at that table, and it’s not hard to find examples of people on the margins using their bodies as part of this expression outside of the usual capitalist channels if you care enough to look.

    And no, pointing out that you can see the outlines of a person’s vulva when they wear tight leggings is not classist.

    LABIA, I HAS THEM.
    “I can see that, thanks.”
    UR OPPRESSIN MA VULVA.

  36. Bright Creature: Frankly, I don’t see Jill’s argument. If I want to wear yoga pants I will wear them. Why should comfort be any less dignified than uncomfortable? I don’t see the sacrifice.

    Wow. Jill’s snark zoomed right past you without leaving a trace, eh?

  37. LOL, I am in the middle of a closing. I’ve slept maybe 7 or 8 hours over the last three days. I wore loose fitting yoga pants yesterday when I realized I had to be in the office from 2AM to 12AM this morning. If they want someone to wear professional attire, then they have to provide me enough time to sleep and dress. Otherwise I will wear PJs or PJ equivalents to work.

  38. Florence:
    Fashion isn’t 100% about all things rich and able, it’s also about art and thrift and personal expression.All people have a seat at that table, and it’s not hard to find examples of people on the margins using their bodies as part of this expression outside of the usual capitalist channels if you care enough to look.

    Thank you for saying this as I was definitely thinking of posting something similar as I read these comments. If my name tells you anything it’s that I love fashion (also that I either read comics or play Warcraft or watch Star Trek, all of which happen to be true). Too often, fashion is equated with constant consumerism and body shaming when it doesn’t need to be (I am looking at you, Stacy). Style doesn’t have to come with a large price tag and it can often be a celebration of the body no matter what shape it may be or capabilities it might have. It doesn’t even need to be about the body at all. I run a fashion blog and I try to avoid talking about things like “flattering” cuts and silhouettes because they only serve to marginalize people who don’t fit the normative tall/thin/hourglass/whatever mold.

    I do think fashion matters. That’s not to say that I think people who wear PJs outside of the house have little self-respect but in a grander scale, I think fashion reflects choices. I make mine for my reasons, and you make yours for your reasons. Frankly, I think it’s kind of fucked up to limit said choices using shaming tactics like Stacy and Clinton do on WNTW. Stacy would probably approve of the way I dress since I like to look nice (as I define nice on a personal level) in a fairly normative way but I would probably still tell her to fuck off.

  39. I shall now attempt to make a fortune marketing button-fly yoga pants. Wish me luck!

  40. If people are supposed to wear real pants, then they need to make pants that fit people!!! I wore yoga pants for 2 straight years during the height of skinny jeans because I have big legs relative to my hip/waist size.

  41. Bright Creature:
    Come to that, why can men go topless but women have to cover up? They get to be comfortable but we can’t? If I have rolls of fat are they less attractive than some man’s publicly displayed moobs?

    Breasts=hypersexualized=ohhhnoooooezzzzzz.

    Believe me, even if it were legal people probably wouldn’t go topless, other than for the novelty of it. It’s been legal for women to go topless – anywhere – here for years (since the early 90s I believe) and the taboo is so socially entrenched that hardly anyone takes advantage of it.. maybe on the hottest days of the year, at the beach.

  42. I have seen leggings used as pants.

    I don’t recommend doing it unless you’re in a dance studio.

    Leggings are thick tights. With no feet. That’s all they are. Please use them as such.

    And don’t get me started on jeggings. Either wear jeans or wear leggings.

  43. LABIA, I HAS THEM.
    “I can see that, thanks.”
    UR OPPRESSIN MA VULVA.

    Florence FTW.

  44. ElleDee:
    The more I think about it, the more I’m for stripping all clothes of their inherent “meaning”. Dress codes should be for safety only and beyond that it shouldn’t matter because the clothes do not make the person. Take a professional in a suit and put them in pjs and do they suddenly become less capable? Clothes are too often used as warfare, especially for women and poor people.

    well-put

  45. I’m going to agree with Alison – as much as I dislike leggings (and no they’re not pants), I’d far prefer to see people in public in leggings than in tights which they seem to have mistaken for leggings. Which…how does one make that mistake, exactly? I mean I know that Hue makes both, but they are rather clearly labelled.

    (Yoga pants, however, are thick enough that they shouldn’t be an issue in a casual sort of work environment. They seem like they’d be great for teachers, nurses, and other people whose jobs involve moving around a lot and frequently bending over to pick stuff up.)

  46. I’m a full time student and employee who hits the yoga studio once a week. When I drag myself out of bed to start another long day I put on the first clean, ironed articles of clothing that my hands touch…usually a jeans & t-shirt/sweatshirt combo (and scrubs at work). If all four pairs of my jeans (my poorness is showing now) happen to be dirty at the same time I will put on leggings, thus contributing to Chicago’s camel toe parade. I have big, thick labia, fat thighs, and child-bearing hips, but I don’t give a flying fuck whether or not anyone’s offended by the sight of it all. They are always welcome to look away.

  47. Also in what universe is cameltoe a class issue? Most of the women I see with visible cameltoe are actually rather well off (hey there, Walnut Creek – put on some real pants).

  50. Oh good grief. Stacy London irritates me. I don’t know if it’s her pretentious attitude or the way she stares at herself in the mirror the entire time she’s talking to the person she’s “making over” on her show that impresses me most.

    I wear yoga pants, very tasteful ones if I do say so myself, on a regular basis. It has nothing to do with being too lazy to put on pants with a zipper and a button. I am a stay at home mom. I am sure my children respect me just fine for wearing pants that are comfortable to play on the floor with them, to going for a walk, to snuggling with them and reading with a book.

  51. I LOVE my Green Apple bamboo yoga pants and wish that I could wear them everywhere. I wait tables part time, and I wear my bamboo yoga pants to work.

    When I was in college, alot of girls wore leggings, myself included. It was usually the leggings, t-shirt, uggs, northface jacket combo. Leggings aren’t taboo around here, although I don’t think they are flattering on everyone. I’ve never seen anyone wearing tights as leggings though, and I can’t imagine how anyone would get them confused.

    Honestly, I think I have a problem. I own two pairs of jeans at the moment. I buy them but end up giving them to my mom or sister. I don’t know why, but I’ve always found most jeans uncomfortable. Occasionally I find a pair of comfortable ones, and wear them until they literally fall apart. My mom says that even when I was younger I would rarely agree to wearing jeans.

    Jeans don’t conform to me like yoga pants. I have that small waist, plump butt, pear shaped thing going on and most jeans are not made for that. They’re either too big in the waist, too small in the hips, or have that annoying gap in the back. So, um… yeah. I’m gonna stick with my yoga pants until they can make jeans more comfortable.

  52. The whole “making sure your kids respect you” thing is just complete bullshit. My mom is a complete tomboy who wears jeans (ew) and boots with a Harley shirt on a regular basis. It certainly doesn’t affect the amount of respect I have for her.

  53. Oooh, Miss S, your comment reminded me of those dreadful car commercials where the snotty little boy is telling we the consumer that we should buy this car so we can be cool parents and not embarrass his hip child self. I see red whenever they come on.

  54. Heather:
    I have worn yoga pants a majority of the past 2 weeks. Except when I wore my skirt with a yoga pant waistband. They aren’t even fancyyoga pants. My future babies are very disappointed.

    I work in TV. Jeans every day FTW.

    However, I have one pair of lululemon yoga pants that I love (thank you clothing swap) and want to wear every day when I get home. Please tell me where I can buy more yoga pants and yoga-top skirts that are not expensive?

    Comfortable clothing is my battle cry! Also, no heels.

  55. I love leggings and I have and will wear them as pants, I also have and wear jeggings as pants. But I tend to wear shirts that cover my crotch area.

    I can’t wear yoga pants to work, the dress code is business casual when there are no clients in the office, business profesisonal when there are clients in the office. But, I don’t have a pair of yoga pants that I would wear to work, the one pair I have is white.

    I think corporate culture has drilled in the mantra that you are what you wear and business professions wear business professional clothes (ie suits) for so long that anything but just seems ridiculous to wear in the workplace. It has become a uniform of sorts. But as someone mentioned already, you’re expected to work long ridiculous hours if you want to succeed and get far in corporate america so why can’t you wear something comfortable if you’re going to be in the office until the we ehours of the next morning?

  56. Thank God I work at a Russian-owned newspaper right now. You can’t get away with yoga pants at work (Russians have a thing about yoga pants and sweatpants and exercise clothes in general – you wear them out if you’re the Russian version of a dangerous chav), but otherwise I’m trusted to dress how I want, within reason. And nobody minds the huge, pregnancy-related bewbs, whereas working back in the States, even the small, regular bewbs were always seen as a zomg problem!!!

    Leggings as pants is a-OK by me.

  57. You can walk down the street in Spanx if you want to, but I’m going to think, “That looks weird, you look like a tan sausage.”

    So I just googled Spanx. Wow.

    … And they ship to Russia now too!

  58. America is more lax about clothes than other countries…but still I don’t think yoga pants at work are a good idea. They’re not even a good idea at the supermarket, unless you literally just got back from yoga class. And leggings as pants…no! Unless you’re wearing a long tunic with them, and even that only looks good with long, lean forms. I agree with Stacy.Plus, I’ve found that when I wear clothes that look really nice and make me feel good, I project more confidence and feel a lot better than if I’m in sweats. And yes, Natalia, USA is uptight about the boobies too. It’s like, “Oh, and you weren’t aware that I had boobies?”

    Oh and are you Россией, Natalia? 🙂 Привет! (I’m learning Russian…)

  59. I live in an area where somewhere along the line it became acceptable to wear pajama pants in public. You know what I mean.. big, baggy, flannel pajama pants, often with cartoon characters and such on them. I don’t know when this happened and it boggles my mind.

    So that being said, Yay Yoga Pants! I have a pair of yoga type pants, and with the right top, they can look quite professional.

  60. Pingback: Are yoga pants appropriate for work? — Feministe | Yoga Fan Central

  62. Honestly. This whole obsession with “oh noes I can see her (and it’s almost always her) crotch/sweat marks/cellulite/body hair/veins” thing is appalling and dismaying. Bodies happen. We’re all naked under our clothes.

    There’s something disturbing about this cultural obsession with seeking out women’s bodies on purpose to be disgusted by how they are inappropriately displayed–and that’s what these conversations are about. If it’s so gross to see some fat woman wearing thin leggings, turn your head and look away–don’t snap a photo and post it on the internet with mocking commentary or whatever.

    There’s so much resentment, fear of aging and desire for superiority underneath all these concerns – the desire to mark out a class of women as inappropriate, clueless, ridiculous because they do not conform to “appropriate” standards of bodily display. And of course, “appropriate” standards are still proxies for class, race, ability and gender identity. We, unlike those poor clueless victims wearing leggings as pants “respect ourselves” enough to wear jeans, or tropical wool in a modest cut, or whatever.

    And you want to talk ableism? My mother wears some pretty unappealing clothes and shoes. She has a number of disabilities that put “self respect” clothes out of the picture. Anyone who makes fun of her, I will personally clock them one.

    I work at a university, so I see college girls wearing leggings as pants and/or very short dresses all the time. And I think to myself “I wish I hadn’t hated my body so much when I was younger – I wish I’d felt comfortable enough to wear something silly and fashionable and revealing instead of wanting to hide”.

  63. women, especially busy mothers, are sacrificing dignity for comfort. “A pair of jeans with a zipper and a button takes a nanosecond longer, and it says, ‘Hey. I’m important, too. It’s not just about my kids,’ ” Ms. London said. “You’re telling your kids you matter, and you’re setting yourself up as a role mode for them — that you always need to have a certain amount of self-respect and put a certain amount of care into your appearance.”

    Oh my god this pisses me off so much.

    The whole “if you had self respect you would sacrifice your personal comfort to dress nicely” thing makes me see red, because it is Opposite Day logic. If I had self respect, which I do, then I would respect my SELF. Not other people’s opinions of my self. My actual self. So I would not feel the need to endure discomfort or pain in order to improve other people’s opinion of my self, as my self already has my respect, and I don’t need other people’s respect to prop it up.

    Seriously! Do these humans not understand logic? My mother used to do this too! It doesn’t show a lack of self respect to dress like a slob. It shows a lack of respect for other people’s opinions about your appearance. This *can* arise from a lack of self respect, if you feel as if you are so hopeless that there’s no point to trying, but it can also arise from sufficient pride and self-sufficiency that you actually just don’t give a shit what other people think.

    As a mom, my free time is precious. Do I spend it hunting for exactly the right pants that won’t cause my fat tummy (which got broken from having kids) agonizing pain, or do I spend it on what *I* want to do, like surfing the internet? Um, this is a choice? And before I was a mom, and before I was fat, I *still* didn’t give a shit what people thought and I *still* wore clothes for comfort, because the fact that I had more free time than I do now meant in no way that I had infinite free time and could just endlessly shop for clothes.

    But I have a luxury not every woman has. I work in IT. In IT, dressing in a feminine way is a detriment. Nice shoes, a dressy blouse, and a skirt = secretary, or HR pro, or “business person”, meaning, to the IT crowd, dumbass. T-shirt, sweatpants and sneakers (that fully cover your skin, of course, showing skin is just as bad for IT pros as anyone else) = developer. I’m not a developer, but my job is ambiguous and can track either technical or business oriented – I’m a business analyst, which means whatever it means, but in my case it means I know SQL and can in fact function as a DBA if I have to, and it means I can read your code and figure out where you broke it even if I can’t write it myself, so it’s pretty important that I dress to convey “I am not a girly girl ‘business person’, I am a techie like you” or I get no respect from the developers.

    (In most places I’ve worked, no one wears T-shirts. I generally have worn turtlenecks and plain pull-over shirts with work slacks that have elastic rather than buttons. They do exist. But now I’m a partner in a small IT consulting company being run out of my house, and everyone who works for me is more technical than I am, so dressing like a slob, except when I am going out on client business, reinforces “she must be smart because she sure doesn’t give a shit if she’s pretty”. Which is exactly the message I want to convey because it is exactly how I feel about it.)

  64. “she must be smart because she sure doesn’t give a shit if she’s pretty”

    Incidentally, I fucking hate it when I have to deal with that attitude. HAAAAAAAATE it. That attitude is part of the reason why I left my first job out of college – I was pulled aside and lectured on my “cute Eastern European shtick” and told to tone it down, because there were a bunch of men in the organization who “might” not take me seriously. Fuck that shit! I was rocking those patterned silk skirts and woven cardigans, bitches!

    Recently, I had a fairly successful American writer tell me that my problem is, and I quote, I “don’t look like a writer.” Writers aren’t ladies in their 20’s with blue eyes and boobies, apparently. (I won’t get into the perv-tastic aspects of all this)

    I HATE having to look put together when I don’t want to look put together, but I also HATE the “if you look cute, we don’t have to take you seriously” BS.

    *commence banging head on desk*

  66. One of the under-recognized class issues around clothes is that middle-class white people can be slobs without much (if any penalty) while many others can’t. So I grew up around a lot of academic slobs who understood themselves as not caring what they looked like in a virtuous and admirable way — they weren’t shallow, etc. — but what I saw was unacknowledged class privilege all the way.

  67. Andrea:
    I live in an area where somewhere along the line it became acceptable to wear pajama pants in public. You know what I mean.. big, baggy, flannel pajama pants, often with cartoon characters and such on them.I don’t know when this happened and it boggles my mind.

    So that being said, Yay Yoga Pants!I have a pair of yoga type pants, and with the right top, they can look quite professional.

    I rather like wearing PJ pants. I think they’re colorful and comfortable, and the patterns can show off your love for a show or certain cartoon. Why should my shirts be the only ones who get to say that I like Marvel Comics?

    That said, I’m also in agreement with those with disabilities about choosing for comfort, although, I will admit I don’t have a pain-related disability and that my issue isn’t nearly as difficult. But I’ve never been able to stand fitted clothing; for some reason I get very claustrophobic, I guess is the way to put it, in thick, tight material. It feels like I can’t move the way I want to. Or else it feels very hot even if the material is thin (pantyhose is a nightmare). Or I sweat all over it. I look at people who wear jeans all the time (yes, I can only wear very specific types of jeans) or fancy shirts, and I think, “How does she do that without being irritated all day long?” I’m not sure if I have sensitive skin or what, but since I was a child, I’ve been a very picky dresser.

  68. The only part of Stacy Whatserface’s statement that I’ll give any credence to is the “mom as role model” bit, but not because my mom became my role model when she dressed up. I think it’s more esoteric than she’s describing.

    My mom was a working mom from the late-1950s-to-present and takes her career in public special education very seriously. In many ways her attitude towards work was a benchmark for me as I moved into the working world. As a little kid, I loved seeing my mom code switch from the lady that yelled/snapped at me for talking to her while she was on the phone and who was covered in grass clippings every Saturday, to the lady in a blazer with formal jewelry who smelled like grown up perfume who was and is regarded as an expert in her working community (She collected pins and brooches and eventually had enough that she could wear a different one in the classroom every day. The kids in her class, a MMD classroom, loved her pin collection and it became a small thrill to see what she was wearing and talk about it every day.). My mom isn’t one for fashion, and she’s fat and has a physical disability, and possibly the only thing she’s vain about is her fingernails, but that “uniform” of hers is something that has stuck with me and I think of that ritual and my ability to bear witness of it fondly.

    My son also remarks on this with me, as he’s curious enough to hang out when I’m putting on makeup and has made comments about the way I smell in the morning and how much he likes it (I think it’s the baby powder).

    My own mother describes a similar feeling towards my grandmother, who worked for the family business as a bookkeeper, saying she always smelled of cold cream when she came home from work and “took off her face”. She can still describe her favorite dresses that her own mother wore.

    All this to say that I do think there is a little magic in the mother/child relationship, and that some of the rituals of femininity that we roll our eyes at become part of the romance between mother and child. It’s kind of awesome.

  69. @konkonsn, other disabilities that aren’t pain-related disabilities would have reasons to potentially find yoga pants appealing. Autism sensory-related issues could be a factor, and disabilities that cause rapid weight fluctuation might also. My sister has a thyroid problem, and every time I visit her, she’s a different size. She has three wardrobes at this point. She can afford this; not everyone can.

    And when I became bipolar 1, the first drug they put me on caused me to go up two sizes during eight weeks. There wasn’t a lot left that was structured that fit after those 2 months, and there’s only so much shopping a violently depressed person is inclined to do all at once, for emotional as well as financial reasons.

  70. Please tell me where I can buy more yoga pants and yoga-top skirts that are not expensive?

    I go to TJ Maxx or Marshalls for mine.

    Konkonsn-me too. I don’t know why I’m so particular about the material and cut of what I’m wearing. I cannot wear turtlenecks and I hate any shirt that comes too close to my neck.

  71. I think it’s pretty funny to insist that yoga pants are a great issue of class, when isn’t “yoga pant” just an upper middle class euphemism for “sweat pants”? I’m not adverse to the idea that sweat pants are not appropriate for an office setting (even an office setting where jeans are okay) and perhaps the actual class issue involved is the idea that by purchasing them at Lulu Lemon for whatever absurd price Lulu Lemon charges (I keep hearing rumors of $150 pants, but that can’t be true, right?), your sweat pants magically transform into something other than sweat pants.

    idk, they don’t seem to make “yoga pants” in my size, since when your ass gets this big clothing makers dispense with euphemism. But I’m into comfort so I wear peasant skirts.

  72. Ms. Ederle, Google tells me that you can get yoga pants for $13.00 at Sears in a wide range of sizes. I’m not sure “sweatpants” can be bought new anymore, at least as they used to be defined when I was younger. “Yoga pants” might read as more affluent, but, given that a good 50% (at a minimum!) of fashion as well as capitalism is about aspiration, that reading may be a lot of bullshit. I get why you might be averse to this bullshit, but I think I still don’t think it can be legitimately read as a class or size signifier based in authenticity.

  73. Also since when are jeans appropriate for more formal (or business-casual) workplaces?

    The company I was lucky to leave last week allowed jeans in the office. It was the only thing they ever did that might be construed as worker-friendly. But as an old fart, I just can’t get my head around jeans at work, and besides, khakis are very bit as comfortable.

  74. samanthab: I’m not sure “sweatpants” can be bought new anymore, at least as they used to be defined when I was younger.

    I could drive to my local Wal-Mart and buy you a dozen elastic-waisted and -ankled pairs of Jerzees or Fruit of the Loom right now.

    Ms. Ederle is right on here. “Yoga pants” a middle-class version of sweatpants, and they’re a ladyfied version of sweatpants. That doesn’t mean they’re not sweatpants.

  75. Ms. Ederle: I think it’s pretty funny to insist that yoga pants are a great issue of class, when isn’t “yoga pant” just an upper middle class euphemism for “sweat pants”?

    No, they’re a fairly specific type of stretchy pant meant for yoga, of a thin fabric, usually close-fitting and often boot-cut. Sometimes, they have a fold-over waist, the function of which I haven’t yet worked out. Sweatpants are too heavy for yoga, and if you wear baggy pants during yoga, chances are you’ll get them caught on various body parts, or step on them, or they’ll fall down (all of which I have experience with). Same with shirts — you have to wear close-fitting ones that won’t fall off when you do inversions or bend over.

    The thing about yoga pants is that they usually look more or less like regular pants, especially if you get them in plain black.

    They sell ’em at Old Navy, and you can get ’em on sale there for 10 bucks or so. The wardrobe is a lot more affordable than the classes are.

  76. “I think it’s pretty funny to insist that yoga pants are a great issue of class, when isn’t “yoga pant” just an upper middle class euphemism for “sweat pants”?”

    When they’re just worn as clothes? Kind of. The two pieces of clothing do provide different things during exercise though, with yoga pants more or less just being a way to wear pants while not really wearing pants.

  77. I had a hard time understanding this piece as I do not wear special pants for yoga.

    I try to avoid jobs with dress codes, as I always fail miserably at them even when trying, and trying means buying a bunch of clothing they don’t pay me enough to be able to afford. I wear: sweat pants, leggings, slacks, and black dress pants with big pockets. (No jeans, as the denim irritates my skin.) I wear them to: work, yoga, whatever. I show respect for myself by gravitating towards work that does not require me to wear clothing I hate, that judges me on performance not attire.

  78. Zuzu, there are yoga videos and books. You can learn it from a friend. You can do it alone at home once you’ve learned it. You really don’t have to take classes; historically yoga was not practiced in the outfits in the classes on the mats that current US upper middle class thinking seems to consider de rigeur.

  79. I think it depends a lot on where you live too. Back home in Vancouver, BC, Canada (home of Lululemon), yoga and active wear is a lot more common as regular wear and there are more places it’s acceptable to dress like that. You probably couldn’t wear them at your bank job or something like that, but as a teacher? Sure. Basically anywhere casual wear is acceptable, yoga wear is acceptable.
    Here in Europe you can barely go to the grocery store in active wear. Active wear is for sports.

  80. Oh and in my reference to Vancouver, I don’t think that it’s about lack of self respect there. It’s just an incredibly active city, and that’s influenced how people dress all the time.

  81. samanthab:
    @konkonsn, other disabilities that aren’t pain-related disabilities would have reasons to potentially find yoga pants appealing. Autism sensory-related issues could be a factor, and disabilities that cause rapid weight fluctuation might also. My sister has a thyroid problem, and every time I visit her, she’s a different size. She has three wardrobes at this point. She can afford this; not everyone can.

    And when I became bipolar 1, the first drug they put me on caused me to go up two sizes during eight weeks. There wasn’t a lot left that was structured that fit after those 2 months, and there’s only so much shopping a violently depressed person is inclined to do all at once, for emotional as well as financial reasons.

    Yeah, I honestly don’t know what it is. I’ve been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, but recent issues have suggested that may of been somewhat mistaken. It’s possibly a form of bipolar, but I won’t know until I (finally) see a psychiatrist Tues. However, I am underweight a lot of the time because of depression related issues, so I dunno if that contributes to a heightened sensitivity or what. My doctor keeps thinking I have a thyroid issue with how tired, thin, and sensitive I am (apparently all my symptoms look like a thyroid problem, and my mom had a thyroid issue that was just resolved a few years ago), but tests always come back with me being “healthy.”

  82. I’m of two minds about the yoga pants thing. Like ElleDee, I don’t see why “professional” has to have a certain definition, and particularly why that definition always involves sacrificing comfort. For me, professionalism involves cooperating with my coworkers and clients and getting my work done on time and at the highest quality–regardless of what I’m wearing. At the same time, though, the ultimate comfort for me would involve bra, undies, and maybe slippers if the office got cold, so I do understand that employers are often called upon to draw a line. I just don’t always agree with where it’s drawn.

    The standard that was passed down to me by my parents was to base my style of dress on whatever my boss wears. With our new, more relaxed boss (and her wardrobe), we generally get to be more comfortable both physically and emotionally. (Look, ma, no constricting blouses that make me self-conscious about my boobs.) It’s also a lot easier on us economically–with my lowish salary and ever-shifting body size, it’s a lot easier to find office-appropriate clothes when I’m not held to some specific standard of dress. But it does blur the line somewhat: If our dress code under New Boss is professional, what was the problem with Old Boss?

  83. I do have to weigh in on the subject of camel toe: It’s not a matter of class, it’s a matter of concealing one’s genitalia, which is expected within our non-naturist-friendly society. Whether you’re buying your leggings from Wal-Mart for $10 or from Nordstrom for $200, $9.50 will get you a sixer of Hanes undies that will keep your pants from creeping toward your uterus.

  84. What is interesting to me about “yoga pants” is that, unlike sweatpants, they tend to be specifically associated with a certain type of woman. The type of woman pictured in the graphic accompanying this article. The type of woman who GOES to yoga class, because she has time, who drinks tap water out of a very expensive metal bottle with an organic label, who debates over whether to get a Kindle, who can pay $89 for those yoga pants
    (yes, for real! http://www.lucy.com/lucy%20Hatha%20Power%20Pant/214253,default,pd.html?cgid=Bottoms_Pants%20in%20Lengths&dwvar_214253_color=LUCY%20BLACK). This isn’t about class, or ability- not in that way. It’s about cisgendered, white, upper middle-class women. Let me tell you- it doesn’t matter if you are wearing a suit or yoga pants, rich ladies. People can tell that you are rich, just like they can tell I am poor when I wear a suit.

  86. I wear yoga pants almost daily. I often wear skirts, short or long, over my yoga pants to camouflage them, or to pass them off as ‘leggings’. Why?? Because I teach yoga! Invariably, I have to run errands and meet with people, pick up kids, etc, and really don’t wish to create the externality of my backside hanging out for the world to witness in grocery stores, coffee shops and banks.

    But please, please, don’t wear jeans or slacks to my classes. . .

  89. ….and your point is, what, exactly? I should give away my yoga pants and cry WWT over my Kindle? Oh, wait–my class is somehow inscribed on my body no matter what I wear or who my family is or where I am in the overall kyriarchy! I see!

    xenu01:
    What is interesting to me about “yoga pants” is that, unlike sweatpants, they tend to be specifically associated with a certain type of woman.The type of woman pictured in the graphic accompanying this article.The type of woman who GOES to yoga class, because she has time, who drinks tap water out of a very expensive metal bottle with an organic label, who debates over whether to get a Kindle, who can pay $89 for those yoga pants
    (yes, for real!http://www.lucy.com/lucy%20Hatha%20Power%20Pant/214253,default,pd.html?cgid=Bottoms_Pants%20in%20Lengths&dwvar_214253_color=LUCY%20BLACK).This isn’t about class, or ability- not in that way.It’s about cisgendered, white, upper middle-class women.Let me tell you- it doesn’t matter if you are wearing a suit or yoga pants, rich ladies.People can tell that you are rich, just like they can tell I am poor when I wear a suit.

  90. and your point is, what, exactly? I should give away my yoga pants and cry WWT over my Kindle? Oh, wait–my class is somehow inscribed on my body no matter what I wear or who my family is or where I am in the overall kyriarchy! I see!

    Well…yes? Nobody wants you to cry over your Kindle, literally anyway. But as a middle class person in social justice it’s important to know that the world we live in is designed to cater exactly to your and your peers’ desires and to create anxiety when you do not participate in it (says the one in fancy sweatpants typing on her netbook). So call it a call for awareness, maybe.

  91. Eh. I come from a poor family and a poor background, and am now middle class. So—does that mean “people can tell” I was now “rich” and grew up “poor”? Because generally, I think they probably just see the overeducated middle class white lady, unless I point it out to them/they piss me off.
    I get that I/we should be aware, what bothers me is the idea that these things are somehow stamped on your body in one narrow way that “people” know.

  92. ElleDee:
    The more I think about it, the more I’m for stripping all clothes of their inherent “meaning”. Dress codes should be for safety only and beyond that it shouldn’t matter because the clothes do not make the person. Take a professional in a suit and put them in pjs and do they suddenly become less capable? Clothes are too often used as warfare, especially for women and poor people.

    I am not sure I agree with you (health care professionals come to my mind, and also clothing can’t be used as a tool of sexual harassment) but you last comment give me a how moment. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

  93. @konkonsn

    Potentially dead thread, but I hope you see this. I’ve dealt with a thyroid problem for over 20 years and one of the most important things I’ve found is to actually ask about your TSH (your Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) and find out the number. The number that is officially considered healthy is 1 – 4, though experts nowadays are starting to consider it 1 – 2. I try to keep mine down around 1, so find out the actual number, because being at the high end of the spectrum can be officially “healthy” but not suited to you personally.

  94. Back home in Vancouver, BC, Canada (home of Lululemon), yoga and active wear is a lot more common as regular wear and there are more places it’s acceptable to dress like that. You probably couldn’t wear them at your bank job or something like that, but as a teacher? Sure. Basically anywhere casual wear is acceptable, yoga wear is acceptable.

    Seriously? I need to move there.

    To me, there is difference between yoga pants and sweat pants, and it’s not a class difference. It’s the cut that’s usually different. Yoga pants tend to be more form fitting because you don’t really want to use baggy pants when doing yoga. Or gymnastics. I also wear them to Zumba.

    I do yoga in my house, drink water out of a plastic bottle from the dollar tree, and don’t have a Kindle. I don’t pay $150 for mine- I pay $18 when I find the ones I like at TJ Maxx or Marshalls. I’m not upper class, nor am I white. Maybe that’s why I don’t see yoga pants as being associated with a certain type of woman, except age. I typically see younger women with them on.

    Yogarobyn-I’m jealous 🙂 I want to be a yoga instructor. I’m saving up the money now for the classes.

  95. Well, I got yoga pants when I got scheduled for a sorta emergency abdominal hysterectomy, and I emailed an internet friend who’d had one recently and asked her what I needed to do. And she said GET YOGA PANTS.

    Then, about a year later, another internet friend had another emergency abdominal hysterectomy, so I emailed her the same advice. The waistband is much more comfortable than the waists on regular sweatpants, and in the right colors and fabrics, they can ‘pass’ in lots of different situations without notice.

    So I think of yoga pants as “abdominal hysterectomy pants.” And I still wear them, because they really are nice and comfortable, and if anyone is offended by my ass, they need to quit looking at poor old ladies’ asses.

    HOWEVER, I NOW WANT TO SAY SOME THINGS ABOUT STACY LONDON. I think WNTW is just heinous. The whole schtick is that these women’s (and it’s always women) friends and family conspire against them with a reality show, which then basically stalks them for two weeks, filming them surreptitiously, then they pounce on her in a public place and berate her and tell her she looks bad. When they don’t acquiesce immediately, they hound them to break them down. I specifically remember one episode where the target was a young, apparently very introverted grad student, and when she hesitated, they told her that her clothes were somehow insulting to others. That somehow, by wearing comfortable non-sexifying shoes, she was giving people the message that she didn’t respect them or something. It was awful. They bullied her and made her cry.

    Then, Stacy London has this running joke where she acts horrified whenever someone says they like something because it’s comfortable, as though it’s just ridiculous that anyone would prioritize their own comfort over the way they appear to others.

    I’ve tried putting myself in those women’s place, and I am horrified. The idea of my family and friends betraying me and conspiring to ridicule me in such a public forum is just nightmarish to me. I like to think I’m pretty self-assured, but I can’t guarantee that, depending on my mindset that particular day, I wouldn’t break under those circumstances.

    That show is just loathsome.

  96. My only issue with yoga pants: When I worked in an office, several of my coworkers used to wear them and got no grief, whereas I got told off by my boss for wearing jeans to work. WHY.

    Otherwise, though, yoga pants are wicked comfy, albeit overpriced at most stores. Though these days it seems like casual clothes cost more than business clothes all the time anyway, so WTF fashion.

  97. Has anyone seen How Do I Look? on the Style network? That show makes WNTW look like a cartoon about two unicorns handing out cookies to people wearing comfortable clothes. It’s AWFUL. I watched one or two episodes, kinda liked it, then I saw an episode where the host laid down some extreme slut-shaming on a woman who wore tight, revealing clothing all the time. She honest-to-goodness implied that they way she dressed was to blame for the disrespectful way men talked to her and treated her when she was in public. I changed the channel and never looked back. I caught a commercial for one episode where the host (who is always, ALWAYS dressed like she is going to an Oscars after party btw, like we should all aspire to be dressed to nines constantly) looked at a woman and said “You’re the only woman I’ve ever met who didn’t want to look sexy” and when she said this, she had the most shocked, disgusted and borderline pissed off look on her face, like this woman’s lack of desire to look sexy was some sort of personal affront to her. *Whew*, okay, I have been wanting to vent about that.

  98. Lisa:
    That show is just loathsome.

    We have a knock-off show in Canada called “Style By Jury” and they put the makeover recipient in a room with a one-way mirror, and have a jury come in and make comments about their first impressions of the person. It pisses me off because these people make all these assumptions about the guests personality “She’s depressed, she has no confidence etc” (like you can tell someone’s mental state by whether they choose to wear track pants). THEN they make the person WATCH the tape and all the terrible things these people say.

    Two of my sisters-in-law were on the show and said that there was so much made-up shit as well, exaggerating the guests ‘style’. My sister-in-law was a teen runaway and they had her do a talk with some runaway teens and she was very excited and the producers were all ‘Oh.. can you try and be more.. resistant? Like you don’t really want to go’.

    I can’t even describe how much I hate so-called ‘reality tv’.

  99. Dress codes should be for safety only and beyond that it shouldn’t matter because the clothes do not make the person.

    I dont’ think that is true. You know clothes make a statement, otherwise we wouldn’t have ‘goths’ and kids wouldn’t wear their pants around their knees. If a girl comes to work with a mini-skirt showing all that god gave her, and a top open down to her belly button, you don’t think that is innappropriate at the office? A guy in a mesh tank-top at the office meeting?

  100. I didn’t read the original statement by Jill, but hating labia and not wanting to see labia outlined everywhere you go are not the same thing. I feel sick at the thought actually. As for leggings without long tops, hell yes – they are everywhere.

    Florence:
    I could make a feminist argument in favor of more publicly visible labia (WHY DO YOU HATE LABIA, JILL?) but I shan’t.

  101. Come on….and you aren’t “class shaming”?? I grew up extremely poor, and I can tell you no-one ever saw me walking around with transparent leggings cutting into my crotch. It’s not about slut-shaming or classist. It’s about having a mirror and realising that you might not be looking the way you think you are. And unfortunately, human beings have evolved to look and surmise. Whether we like it or not. No-one thinks that you should have to go to Armani and mortgage your kids future to dress in accordance with someone elses salary.

    Personal Failure: So “virtual camel show” is not classist in any way? Maybe some people like the way they’re dressed or don’t view clothing the way you do or can’t afford better. Dismissing the way theyre dressed as ZOMG! I can’t believe I have to see that is a bit, well, classist, among other things. Never mind that it’s veering dangerously close to She Deserved It and Slut Shaming.

  102. Amen!! Exactly!

    Jill:
    You know, I had a bet with a friend to see how soon someone would freak out on this thread. I guessed within 10 comments of my saying “virtual camel show.” I was close, so thanks!

    And no, pointing out that you can see the outlines of a person’s vulva when they wear tight leggings is not classist. How in god’s name is that classist when women of all different income levels wear leggings, which are currently a fairly trendy clothing item? It’s also not “She Deserved It” or “Slut-Shaming.” Seriously. It is saying, there are certain items of clothing that need to be layered. You can walk down the street in Spanx if you want to, but I’m going to think, “That looks weird, you look like a tan sausage.” And you can walk down the street topless if you want to, but I’m going to think “I can see your boobs.” Those observations do not equal “If you get raped it’s your fault” or “You are a slut.” They do equal, “I can see your _____.”

    Jesus H Christ.

  103. Let me ask this, of everyone who is seeing this comment about not wanting to see camel toe (particularly in beige/tan). If a man was walking down the street in leggings, showing the outline of his…well, everything…how would you react? And yes, I’ve seen it, and no, I don’t hate penises, but do I need to see them everywhere?

    Frowner:
    Honestly. This whole obsession with “oh noes I can see her (and it’s almost always her) crotch/sweat marks/cellulite/body hair/veins” thing is appalling and dismaying.Bodies happen.We’re all naked under our clothes.

    There’s something disturbing about this cultural obsession with seeking out women’s bodies on purpose to be disgusted by how they are inappropriately displayed–and that’s what these conversations are about.If it’s so gross to see some fat woman wearing thin leggings, turn your head and look away–don’t snap a photo and post it on the internet with mocking commentary or whatever.

    There’s so much resentment, fear of aging and desire for superiority underneath all these concerns – the desire to mark out a class of women as inappropriate, clueless, ridiculous because they do not conform to “appropriate” standards of bodily display. And of course, “appropriate” standards are still proxies for class, race, ability and gender identity.We, unlike those poor clueless victims wearing leggings as pants “respect ourselves” enough to wear jeans, or tropical wool in a modest cut, or whatever.

    And you want to talk ableism?My mother wears some pretty unappealing clothes and shoes.She has a number of disabilities that put “self respect” clothes out of the picture.Anyone who makes fun of her, I will personally clock them one.

    I work at a university, so I see college girls wearing leggings as pants and/or very short dresses all the time. And I think to myself “I wish I hadn’t hated my body so much when I was younger – I wish I’d felt comfortable enough to wear something silly and fashionable and revealing instead of wanting to hide”.

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