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How to split a check at a restaurant

Jill

I would agree with most of this if you took out the misogyny, and I’ll add that approximately 90 percent of the people I dine with on a regular basis are Young Attractive Women, and somehow we all manage to split the bill without issue. In fact, there is often too much money on the table, because no one wants to be That Guy who screws everyone else. Weird.

Also, makes me glad that none of my friends are pains in the ass who will go to dinner with 10 people and then insist that we itemize the check instead of just dividing it evenly. If you came late and just ordered a glass of wine, fine. But “you ordered the salmon and I only got a burger” is irritating, impossible to calculate in large groups, and makes the waitstaff hate you when you hand them 10 cards with 10 different amounts to charge, which never actually add up to the total cost of the meal.

This is also why I hate enormous group dinners. Four people is plenty, thank you, unless it’s someone’s birthday.

179 thoughts on How to split a check at a restaurant

  1. Is there anything left after you take out all the misogyny? All I see are a few stray prepositions and definite articles.

  3. This just confirms my view that everyone should be required to wait tables or work some other sort of retail-type job at least once. Don’t torture your poor server!

  4. I’m a vegetarian and therefore my meals are often significantly cheaper than everyone else’s when I go out. I guess that makes me an ass.

    I’ve actually NEVER been out to dinner with a group where anyone wanted to split the check evenly. So apparently everyone I know is an ass. At least I’m in like-minded assy company.

  5. We did a lot of everybody pays for their own entree, but I paid for the pitcher of margaritas and you paid for the dessert and she pays for the appetizer, etc. That seemed to work well (in smallish groups).

  6. This is definitely a cultural thing. In Finland the waiters usually just bring separate bills to everyone unless someone says differently.

  7. I (over 25 bracket) used to agree, but then my partner went teetotal, and our friends drink *loads*, so we now split roughly by what everyone has. This is because it’ll never even out – the people who drink two cocktails, a bottle of wine and five pints will always do that, and he will always lose out.

    That said, we’ve never asked for separate bills – we’re not asses to that extent…

  8. I’ve never split the check evenly unless we really did get shit that came up same price and it’s never really been a problem. Everyone just rounds up and it’s always enough money, then everyone throws down evenly for tip.

  9. I don’t drink much, and almost never order alcohol when I go out to dinner. I tend to order the less expensive entrees. However, I don’t get stroppy about splitting the bill according to the number of people there simply because it’s easier when all’s said and done. Unless I only had a fruit cup or something. In which case, I wouldn’t bother meeting people for dinner!

  10. It’s much easier living in a smallish college town, where the wait staff everywhere is fully prepared to split the bill and charge an arbitrary number of credit cards. It tends to work out pretty decently for them, because (as far as I can tell) people are more likely to pay a higher percentage tip on a smaller bill.

  11. Liza: I’m a vegetarian and therefore my meals are often significantly cheaper than everyone else’s when I go out. I guess that makes me an ass.

    Yep. It’s the politics of indifference:

    Years ago, I worked in a department that had grown from five people to a dozen people quite quickly, and the manager, trying to weld us all into a team, used to organise monthly lunches for which attendance not-exactly-compulsory-but-you’d-better-have-a-good-excuse-if-you-don’t-go. Habitually, to save time, when the bill was presented, everyone used to kick in the same amount (it was usually £10) and that would cover the cost of the food/drink and a tip. I was the only vegetarian in the department. The kind of places we went to never had a particularly exciting menu, and my options as a vegetarian were usually a baked potato with cheese, a vegeburger with chips, or soup with bread. (Sometimes there was a vegetarian salad.) These were all cheap options. The cost of my meal was usually about £6-7, and paying £10 every time was irritating. I tried to suggest, several times, that I’d rather we all paid for what we bought; to this, most people responded with “Oh it evens out in the long run”. I pointed out, more than once, that it didn’t even out for me, because the only meals available to me were always less than £10: to which someone always rejoined “Oh, there’s nothing to stop you ordering what you like”. When I finally lost my temper about the situation, and got hauled up before my manager and rebuked for lacking team spirit and trying to spoil other people’s team spirit/enjoyment of pleasant lunches together, it wasn’t because I thought that my colleagues were being hostile towards me because I’m vegetarian: it was because I had been confronted with their complete indifference to the situation that my being vegetarian put me in, at far too many departmental lunches at which I was expected not only not to mind part-paying for other people’s meals as well as my own, but not to irritate other people by talking about it.

    One aspect of privilege is that you do not have to be aware of being privileged. If something is set up to convenience members of a privileged group, members of the group privileged will often react with anger and hostility to any reminder that the way things have been set up is not “just how things are”: that arrangements have been purposefully made to convenience members of the privileged group, with – at best – complete indifference as to how this may inconvenience people outside the privileged group. It should be fairly obvious why this is: if this is “just how things are” then they will not change: everything will always go on as it now is. If you acknowledge that “how things are” is a purposeful arrangement made to convenience some people and inconveniencing others, the question necessarily arises: why are some people deserving of convenience, while others are not?

    (But the handing 10 cards to the waitstaff is annoying: it helps if people bring along enough cash to pay for their own meal.)

  12. Liza:
    I’m a vegetarian and therefore my meals are often significantly cheaper than everyone else’s when I go out. I guess that makes me an ass.

    I’m a vegetarian too. I usually don’t insist on splitting it equally when no one else is, in the interests of non-hassle, but yeah. I call it the vegetarian tax.

  13. Huh. Every time we go out with a large group, we get separate checks, because not getting separate checks turns into a complete disaster with dessert being wasted trying to make sure nobody’s getting completely hosed with an even split.

    The only time that doesn’t really work is if you’re getting tapas or sushi or dim sum or some other thing that’s meant to be shared around, at which point you kind of have to say “Don’t go out for dim sum with 15 people if you’re not okay with picking up 1/15th of the tab, because really.”

    Also, yeah, wow, misogyny.

  14. Also, I just don’t make that much money and I’m not throwing down fifteen when I’ve only ordered a fiver’s worth of crap.

  15. Sorry – that’s a way longer blockquote than I meant to put in, which was meant to just illustrate the point that unless you’re eating out at a place that serves from only a small price range of options, and you’re all about the same income level, and all drinking the same amount, there can be excellent reasons for not simply going “oh let’s all split the check evenly” and ignoring equally the wide-eyed horror of the vegetarian and the unemployed person who both of them ordered from the low end of the menu and are now going to be paying for other people’s meals they didn’t want/can’t afford.

  16. I suppose I don’t really get why “friends” who expect their veg friends, non-drinking friends, etc. to pay in excess of what they consumed are somehow any less the asshole than the person skipping out on their 28%. Maybe if these are people you eat out with once every couple of years it’s no big deal (I mean, unless you avoid paying for products for reasons of personal ethics/belief . . .), but if you dine with each other regularly, that adds up quickly. Also, maybe it’s a novel concept, but I actually have friends who have made both less money than I and more money! Even past the age of 25! Shocking, I know, but if you’re expecting all friends to pay equally regardless of what they’ve consumed, you’re going to chip away from the number of friends who are will be financially able to join you for dinner. Some people actually have to budget to dine out. I really can’t see how splitting evenly is fair to all involved unless you have a particularly homogeneous group of friends and given how easy it is to split the check if you tell the wait person up front, there’s no reason not to do it if you can’t trust your friends well enough to handle it by themselves.

    1. I suppose I don’t really get why “friends” who expect their veg friends, non-drinking friends, etc. to pay in excess of what they consumed are somehow any less the asshole than the person skipping out on their 28%. Maybe if these are people you eat out with once every couple of years it’s no big deal (I mean, unless you avoid paying for products for reasons of personal ethics/belief . . .), but if you dine with each other regularly, that adds up quickly.

      Sure. And if you’re out to dinner with two or three of you, it’s not a big deal to itemize things. I’m talking about going out in big groups (which is annoying enough). Also, in some places — like a lot of New York — waitstaff won’t give you 10 separate checks.

      Also, if money is tight, it’s worth saying that up front, before you go out to eat. A few of my good friends have had job troubles lately, so instead of going out to big dinners, we cook at home and then grab a glass of wine out. I have another friend who is in school, and we’ll sometimes go out to a meal or two and I’ll pick up the check because she’s made it clear ahead of time that she can’t afford it, but I want to go out with her. No biggie, everyone is happy, etc.

      And seconding the suggestion that everyone work as a waiter at some point in their life.

  17. I come from an area where people who are or who want to appear to be middle-class believe that talking about money, income, and budgeting is considered tacky or whatever, so I find that saying up front, “I can’t afford it, sorry,” or “I’ll go as long as I pay my own way,” or “Your treat? (No, I’m not kidding.)” takes the wind out of the inequality sails.

  18. What Florence said. I’ve been known to say, “Look, I can’t afford it. Let’s do something else.” Or if the plans were already in place, “I can’t afford it, but I’ll catch up with you all later sometime.” Either they offer to cover (which I feel funny about accepting) or they say, “Yeah, catch up with us at our place for coffee” or they say, “OK, another time then.”

    Sure, there is a vegetarian tax (though some of the places I’ve been to the vegetarian entrees are pretty pricey in and of themselves). There’s also a teetotaler/designated driver tax, and a “I am forgoing dessert/coffee” tax.

    I’m not going to get too stroppy about it because I remember–all too well–the days when eating out at the likes of IHOP was a huge luxury. If I eat out now, it tends to be Chinese or Mexican at places where there isn’t a huge price discrepancy.

  19. I agree that splitting the bill only works when you have a particularly homogeneous group. And really isn’t that effective when you have people with vastly different incomes and vastly different diets.

  20. Yonmei:
    Liza: I’m a vegetarian and therefore my meals are often significantly cheaper than everyone else’s when I go out. I guess that makes me an ass.

    Yep. It’s the politics of indifference:

    This, this, THIIIIIIS. As a cranky ethical vegetarian who has absolutely zero interest in paying for other people to eat meat, I hate ‘oh-we’ll-just-split-the-bill-evenly’ with the power of a thousand fiery burning SUNS. It’s easy to say ‘Well, just don’t go out for dinner in large groups then’, and given my druthers I usually don’t, but as Yonmei points out, for work reasons it is sometimes unavoidable.

  21. I’ll never forget the time (back in my under-25 days) when I’d just started a new job and a big group of my co-workers was going out to dinner. I tried several times to politely decline, but was embarrassed to tell them I couldn’t afford it, and ended up going along in the interest of being part of the team. I ordered a $6 sandwich and water, and my co-workers had several appetizers, cocktails, seafood, etc. Then of course they insisted on splitting the bill, and I had to put $26 on my high-interest credit card. I’m still bitter!

    But now I’m vegan so no one wants to go out to eat with me anyway. Ha.

  22. Sure, there’s a vegetarian tax. And a teetotaler tax. And I suppose a no sugar tax for those folks who don’t order dessert. I’ve split the check with vegetarian friends who had four glasses of wine while I had no alcohol and a small entree.

    You know, I remember when going to freaking IHOP was a rare luxury for me. If I can’t afford it or if money’s tight, I say so. If I found myself resenting paying for someone’s drinks when I don’t drink, etc., I’d either suggest other activities or maybe find different friends.

    1. Sure, there’s a vegetarian tax. And a teetotaler tax. And I suppose a no sugar tax for those folks who don’t order dessert. I’ve split the check with vegetarian friends who had four glasses of wine while I had no alcohol and a small entree.

      Yeah. I was a vegetarian for 10 years, and I still split the check, even if it meant I was paying an extra $3. And if I couldn’t afford to go out to dinner, then I would just say so and not go, or suggest somewhere cheaper, or cook at home with friends.

  23. I am a teetotaller and I am totally sympathetic to the vegetarians on this thread! If my friends acted like that I would indeed be bilked every time we went anywhere. They don’t because it is known that I do not drink.

    Indeed if you are a vegetarian for moral instead of health or other reasons then you are sort of being asked to subsidize what you see as morally wrong behavior. Like asking an abstinence practitioner to chip in for condoms because they were at a party where other people had sex. And it’s not really possible to only have friends and especially colleagues/family whose life choices you totally support in all such things eg I am sure we all have some nonfeminist friends, because you’d be pretty lonely!

  24. I generally do eat at home and then end up being the person who “shows up late and really *does* just order a glass of wine.”

    I prefer eating my own food and yet I still want human company sometimes… I’ll pay for a drink for it but really…. not much more than that.

  25. If you have a moral problem with what someone’s eating or drinking–or with anything else they are doing–then by all means, don’t “subsidize” it. If eating meat is that morally repugnant to you, maybe you don’t want to watch people eat animals, period.

    1. If you have a moral problem with what someone’s eating or drinking–or with anything else they are doing–then by all means, don’t “subsidize” it. If eating meat is that morally repugnant to you, maybe you don’t want to watch people eat animals, period.

      Right? Also, maybe don’t go to restaurants that serve meat at all. If you’re paying for a vegetarian entree at a restaurant that also serves meat, you are subsidizing meat-eating, even if you don’t split the check with your friends.

  26. As someone who has spent a majority of her adult life in and around kitchens, I do empathize with the reality that sometimes the bill is uneven for certain people, but at the same time see a lot of folks who get off on being morally superior to their peers or love controlling the crowd (including the kitchen and waitstaff) with their dietary requirements. So… okay, maybe I’m not all that empathetic.

    Sure, there are exceptions, but you’ve got to be willing to set boundaries for what you are and aren’t going to subsidize and hold to them as part of the price for doing business or having company.

  27. Jill, Sheelzebub – fair point. But if you are a teetotaller and you are to have any social interactions at all in any establishment in the UK where I am from, you are stuck with the fact that they all sell drink. I have never heard of or seen one that did not. To ask someone to simply stay away from alcohol in Britain is to ask them to be a hermit. The professional cost alone would be unsupportable, let alone the social. Outside major city centers in the US, vegetarians are not much better off. It’d be like asking someone to never interact with nonfeminist people, or asking someone who is opposed to birth control never to shop at a pharmacy that supplies it – if that’s the only pharmacy near their house, they’re stuck with it.

    It is not hard for meat eaters or drinkers to cater to their friends’ teetotal/vegetarian ways. It is no skin off their nose; they’re not being asked to pay for the veggie’s whole meal, or go without meat in that person’s presence. They’re not even being asked to cater to particular preferences in their own home where it really can get inconvenient (I speak as an almost weekly host of dinner parties!). Sometimes people’s choices are hard to accommodate but in a restaurant setting, these particular examples really are not.

  28. It seems like a lot of people are very defensive of continuing to expect other people to pay for more than their fair share when going out to eat in a group, and I really don’t understand why that is. If everybody agrees to split evenly, awesome. But if someone, for any reason at all, wants to not pay for someone else’s meal, I don’t understand why there is so much animosity towards that. Saying, “well if you can’t afford it then just don’t go out” seems really cold to me when it’s not that they can’t afford to pay their own way, but that they can’t afford to pay your way on top of that.

    1. It seems like a lot of people are very defensive of continuing to expect other people to pay for more than their fair share when going out to eat in a group, and I really don’t understand why that is. If everybody agrees to split evenly, awesome. But if someone, for any reason at all, wants to not pay for someone else’s meal, I don’t understand why there is so much animosity towards that. Saying, “well if you can’t afford it then just don’t go out” seems really cold to me when it’s not that they can’t afford to pay their own way, but that they can’t afford to pay your way on top of that.

      My problem isn’t with the theory of itemizing the check — again, in theory, that should be fine. But in practice it’s a shitshow, especially if you live in a place (like New York) where restaurants do not bring diners separate checks. First of all, restaurants in a lot of NY tend to be small, so if you’re a group of 10 anywhere outside of a corporate-y restaurant catering to businessfolks, you’re already putting strain on the waitstaff. Second, if the check comes and the people who only want to pay for what they ordered don’t have cash (and people routinely don’t have cash on them), you get a scenario where the waiter or waitress gets handed 10 different credit cards and is instructed to charge 10 different amounts. The chances of it all actually adding up properly are slim; it takes 20 minutes to figure out what everyone owes; it takes 15 minutes for the waitperson to run all of your cards; and inevitably someone doesn’t add up the price of their food adequately and the waitperson ends up getting short-changed on their tip. In the meantime, all of his or her other tables are being ignored, your table isn’t being turned over on time, etc etc. It is an enormous pain in the ass. It is why waitpersons hate large groups.

      So yes, in big groups, it is MUCH easier to just split everything evenly. If that’s not possible and you only want to pay for exactly what you ordered, ok — you can mitigate being a pain in the ass by having enough cash on you, and by adequately adding up what you did plus 30% for tax and tip. In my experience with big groups, though, this absolutely does not happen. Which is why it’s annoying.

  29. Sheelzebub:
    If you have a moral problem with what someone’s eating or drinking–or with anything else they are doing–then by all means, don’t “subsidize” it.If eating meat is that morally repugnant to you, maybe you don’t want to watch people eat animals, period.

    Watching people eat meat may come across as incredibly repugnant to some, but I think for most “moral”-reason (which can include everything from eco-impact to Tx of animals) vegetarians, this isn’t the case, they’d just like not to be asked to pay for meat. And the difference between a vegetarian meal and a meat-inclusive meal at many restaurants (especially nice ones) can be fairly significant, up to 30 dollars sometimes. The same is true of alcohol, if everyone else knocks back a few glasses of wine/beer, you can be looking at easily 20-40 dollar deficit. I don’t think someone should change friends simply because they don’t want to make up what can often to amount a big difference.

  30. Florence – that last paragraph was very well put! There has to be a compromise.

    (Slight derail but cute story so…) My rabbi and his wife once had a Catholic bishop to dinner on a Friday. The rabbi’s wife made their usual Jewish Friday night dinner of roast chicken. The rabbi was mortified because a devout Catholic is not supposed to eat meat on a Friday. The bishop ate it without complaint and complimented the rabbi’s wife on her cooking. When the guest was leaving, the rabbi took him aside and apologized, saying his wife had not known, and thanking the bishop for eating the food so politely. The bishop said, “God will forgive me; your wife would not.”

    Everyone has their limits!

  31. While the misogyny was, well, frustrating, a lot of it rang true for me. Even the bit about the cute girl who just smiles and tries to get away with under paying.

    I generally don’t want to have to pay for someone’s $20 entree and $25 of drinks when I only ordered a $10 dinner and luckily it’s common practice for my friends and I to pay for what we ordered plus the tax and tip. It’s still always a mess though and I’ve taken myself out of the equation by always noting the price of what I order and always carrying small bills when I dine in large groups. This way I can throw in what I owe (plus a generous tip because I was a waitress once and to help cover the “cute girl who underpays”) and then I back away.

  32. Is it bad that I couldn’t make it past the 4th paragraph? I just stopped reading, it was too insulting.

  33. UGH. This article is busted. The misogyny of course, but also when the dude calls people whiners for not wanting to drink. Alcohol is really expensive and way to add to all the other social pressures people who don’t drink have to contend with. It’s insane how aggressive people get when they find out you don’t drink. Also, being from the U.K., I second that after a certain time (around 6pm) it’s pretty much impossible to go anywhere where drinking is not a central activity. Unless you want to spend every night you go out in the cinema, that is.

  34. Again, with the vegans!

    I would love to only patronize vegan establishments but there are ZERO in the entire state where I live. I cook at home quite a bit but sometimes you’re on the road/desperate/forgot your lunch/don’t want to be a hermit and need to grab something at a restaurant that serves animal products.

    There’s no appreciable difference for me between folks eating flesh, dairy, cheese, or even using other animal products like wearing a leather jacket at the table. It’s all exploitation but it’s around me all the time; it’s really no different at the dinner table. But really, I’m a big girl and can handle it (and most vegans are mature enough to be around animal products without causing a social fuss). Conversations about veganism are much better to be had when food is not around, too, because it can cause tension and odd feelings and is just not effective if advocacy is your aim.

    I do not want to directly pay for someone’s animal products and I shouldn’t have to. The indirect subsidy argument is kind of silly (ex: I drive on city roads which use animal products [slaughterhouse byproducts] in their construction, so I can never be 100% vegan, just as vegan as I possibly can with what I have). We all indirectly subsidize animal product consumption and it’s usually beyond your control. Choosing to be vegan for what you can control, however, is what matters.

    I’ve never had a problem just paying for what I ordered, even in large groups, because most people can see my item costs about half as much as theirs and know why I am vegan in the first place. Even though I’m the only vegan in many of my friend circles, this has never been a problem.

    And since I worked as a waitress from ages 16-22, I too was annoyed unless everyone was absolutely sure what they had, how they wanted to split, etc. People getting into fights by insisting to pay for things was actually way more obnoxious. That’s why most restaurants add gratuity to large parties; that definitely makes up for the extra work, especially on big checks. What I do hate, however, is if the gratuity was 12% or maybe 15%, folks wouldn’t make up the difference to 20%. All waitstaff deserve 20% unless they royally fucked up, which is pretty rare for most places.

  35. Sounds like eating out with a group of folks is reified class privilege! Why should those who spend big, without regard to the ability of others to do likewise, be the ones who set the boundaries of either social acceptability or coolness. Isn’t that the very definition of privilege?

    If you have money to burn, burn it; but realize that one of the reasons you might have money to burn is that you are totes willing to let other people pay for part of your pleasure/convenience.

  36. In this issue, I’m an ass. There are certain foods I dont eat and I will damned if I will pay for someone’s filet mignon when I no longer eat beef at all. I don’t see how it is air to call someone an ass for not wanting to subsidize someone else’s meal? My spouse and I go on group dinners once a week and we always split the check (usually in twos are everyone either as a date or a dinner buddy and the dinner buddies (totally platonic non romantic friends) will pay with one card cash and we all get billed gratuity. In our group my husband and I have a LOT of money but there are people with far less. How fair woulld it be for me to rack up on cocktails ( I love patron margaritas, sangrias and I often mix my own drink with premium alcohol), eat loads of seafood and expect my friends who barely had enough to afford the chicken tenders split the cost of it all evenly? Seriously? Who is the asshole in that picture? You shouldn’t have to agree to pay for other people just to enjoy their company if its already been established that every man or woman is paying for him or herself. We always tip big (never left less than 5 bucks per person if the service was bad and have gone past 10 bucks a person when it was good). That article was full of misogyn but still I cant get past being expected to subsidize the meals of others or others subsidizing my meal because we sat at the same table.

  38. Thank you Emily, Azalea and others.

    There does seem to be a lot of privelege showing in the original post and some of the comments.

    If you can casually afford to pay for food you’re not eating, well, good. I’m not trying to be snarky, here: It’s truly a good thing to be in that financial situation.

    Right now I’m in a position that occasionally splitting a check evenly wouldn’t be a hardship, but there have been (and will be again, I have no doubt) times when I have chosen carefully entrees by price because the only way I could afford to eat out was to budget and count my quarters. I will always choose a cheaper entree or skip extras rather than stiff a waiter or waitress.

    I have friends and family members who are in better financial situations, and some who are in worse ones. I would accept an offer (to pay for the meal, to split equally if entrees weren’t similar in price, etc.) from somebody who can afford it, but I would never EXPECT it from somebody who can’t, or presume to know whether or not they can afford it.

    To me, automatically expecting somebody else to pay for your food or regularly ‘subsidize’ your meal is more ass-ish.

  39. But I *have* the $6 to pay for my cheaper vegetarian meal, and I *do* want to hang out with my 9 friends who I don’t see very often. I’m pretty sure that doesn’t make me an ass, but maybe next time I should just sit home by myself and eat PB&J. Sheesh.

  40. The thing is, staying in and cooking a meal at home is fine. But I don’t think I’m an asshole for wanting to go to a restaurant AND not drop a lot of cash. Going out is, like, fun?

    1. The thing is, staying in and cooking a meal at home is fine. But I don’t think I’m an asshole for wanting to go to a restaurant AND not drop a lot of cash. Going out is, like, fun?

      Right, and no one said that you were. My point is that it’s obnoxious for the server to run 10 different credit cards with 10 different amounts. If everyone pays cash and wants to itemize the bill, ok.

  41. Sheelzebub:
    If you have a moral problem with what someone’s eating or drinking–or with anything else they are doing–then by all means, don’t “subsidize” it.If eating meat is that morally repugnant to you, maybe you don’t want to watch people eat animals, period.

    Or maybe I want to be allowed to set my own boundaries, and to say that I don’t give a gently-sautéed rat’s ass au jus what other people eat, I just don’t want to be asked to pay for it.

    Bowing out of this conversation now, as I’m not sure I have anything useful to contribute.

  42. Emily:
    It seems like a lot of people are very defensive of continuing to expect other people to pay for more than their fair share when going out to eat in a group, and I really don’t understand why that is. If everybody agrees to split evenly, awesome. But if someone, for any reason at all, wants to not pay for someone else’s meal, I don’t understand why there is so much animosity towards that. Saying, “well if you can’t afford it then just don’t go out” seems really cold to me when it’s not that they can’t afford to pay their own way, but that they can’t afford to pay your way on top of that.

    Thank you. That’s how I’m beginning to feel, reading this thread. Expecting your friends who eat cheaper to either continuously subsidize you or not go out is fairly obnoxious. So is paying the bill with 8 credit cards, but that’s why I make sure I have cash in these situations. Is it really that objectionable if someone says “I had the $8 salad and the $6 glass of wine, so here’s $18?”

  43. Why on earth is it so hard for everyone to pay their own way? I have only split when the costs were even or close to even (and if they are not even and I’m the one who got more, I make damn sure my dinner companions are okay w/ splitting evenly). It is really not that hard to put in for what you owe. If you must all pay with cards, and it is inconvenient for the server to do different amounts, you can even it out in the tip, or – here’s a thought – agree to pay your friend the extra amount. But it is really lousy to assume that it will “even out” when that’s often not the case, and when it’s a big risk to a less-well-off friend to assume that it will.

  44. Zes–I don’t drink (with the exception of maybe a glass of wine on Christmas and on New Year’s). I lived in the UK and in Japan, where drinking was practically mandatory. And yes, I was often expected to pick up my share of the check which included alcohol.

    Look–I have been in the position where I didn’t order much/didn’t drink anything and had to split “evenly” with others. What pissed me off was the tinge of self-righteousness of people who didn’t want to subsidize meat eaters–and I wanted to point out that it’s not just vegetarians who subsidize people (again–I had to split checks when the vegetarians had several glasses of wine and desert and I had an inexpensive entree only).

    I’m saying that if your friends expect you to split the check “evenly” when they consistently order more alcohol/desert/expensive entrees (it’s not always the meat entrees that are more expensive) then you might want to find more considerate people to hang out with. I don’t quibble over the difference because the places my friends and I go do don’t have such a huge difference in meal prices–and I don’t quibble over paying for someone’s wine or beer because they didn’t quibble over my desert the last time.

    Again–it wasn’t that long ago to me when even eating at a place like IHOP was a huge expense/treat so the discussion about $30 differences in meal prices is. . .mind boggling to me, to say the least. I have a feeling that my choice of restaurants would be sub-par to most of the folks on this thread.

  45. “Again–it wasn’t that long ago to me when even eating at a place like IHOP was a huge expense/treat so the discussion about $30 differences in meal prices is. . .mind boggling to me, to say the least. I have a feeling that my choice of restaurants would be sub-par to most of the folks on this thread.”

    And just want to clarify–I’m seeing classism on all sides in this discussion. Because hello–$30 difference in entrees? I can’t even think of affording a place like that.

  46. junk – “how aggressive people get when they find out you don’t drink” Amen to that! Always with the demanding why. Argh.

    But to get back on subject, one of my best friends is an actress. When we hang out, if it is my turn to pay, we go somewhere that costs x per head. When it’s her turn we go somewhere half the price. She was very hard up for a while so I had her to dinner a bunch of times. I think this is totally fair because I have more money than her right now. If she becomes a big star I know she’ll take me out to posh places. If I happen to be financially ahead of of her forever, then, hey – I know she will always be kind to those with less than her. When I was a student I had a student friend who had no money at all and I had a bit, so I bought him many pizza slices. Now he is a big lawyer, he buys me steak. Surely being a friend means you take care of each other as best you can according to what resources you have at the time. Sometimes one has more to give, sometimes another. You can’t put a price tag on the stuff that matters most anyway. If you are lucky enough that $20 here or there is mere quibbling, then yay for you – I’m a lucky person and not speaking from envy. Either get yourself some equally wealthy friends or accept that, as the same amount of money means less to you, you may more easily part with it for the sake of friendship and good company.

  47. Look, if you can afford not to “quibble” about a difference in price of a few dollars, then that is really great for you. However, if you judge someone else as being a pain in the ass because they cannot afford to pay 3 extra dollars for food that THEY DID NOT EVEN CONSUME then that, in my ever so humble opinion, is evidence of your character, not anyone else’s.

    And frankly the protestations of “oh, I’ve been there, I used to scrimp and save to eat at Denny’s” in the same breath as effectively judging poor people as assholes because they can’t afford to buy your dessert are…unconvincing.

  48. Emily, if you’d bothered to read what I wrote–which you didn’t, obviously–you’d see that I didn’t “quibble” over it because these friends are considerate and it does even out–I don’t freak out over splitting the check that includes wine because they didn’t freak out over splitting the check that included ice cream. And where I said that if your friends are constantly ordering more expensive things and expecting you to pay for them, then they aren’t very good friends and you’d be better off without them. And you also would have seen that I’m still scrimping–see: my mind boggles at the $30 difference in entrees.

    But obviously! My going out to the odd neighborhood Chinese or Indian restaurant a few times a year (as opposed to places with huge differences in entree prices, etc.) with people who show each other consideration means that I’m really fucking rich or whatever. Fuck off.

  49. If you are lucky enough that $20 here or there is mere quibbling, then yay for you

    Wow. Yeah, I never said that. If you’re in the position to go to restaurants where $20 or $30 is the cost of an entree (or the difference for entrees) yay for you. That’s way beyond what I can afford.

  50. Sheelzebub – I agree that it is totally fine if you pay for their wine/meat/whatever if they get your dessert another time or something. It is a general sense of it being broadly fair (whether that means straight up the same, or proportionate to your means) that matters I feel.

    This is a particularly relevant matter for me because I had a colleague until very recently who did this EVERY SINGLE TIME we met up. He’d insist he couldn’t work on an empty stomach. I would state my budget, he would say “fine” then insist on going to the place of his choice, where I would get a salad for like $11 and he would get steak and wine for $40, then want to split the bill down the middle. He was just so rich (family money) that it never occurred to him it mattered, if challenged he would either laugh it off or express fear about people taking advantage of his wealth and everyone would shut up for fear of seeming like a leech. He was indispensable to the project in hand and incredibly charming too which both acted to silence complaints. So if I sound at all hostile I want to be clear it is about him and people like him, not anyone on this thread least of all you!

  51. Yeah, I have to budget myself down to the last quarter, and I’m a vegetarian, so if my friends want me to hang out with them I can’t pay anymore than I owe (including tip of course). $3 here and there adds up for those of us without much disposable income. Obviously I won’t go out if I can’t cover myself, but beyond that it just isn’t possible. People should be sensitive to this and not judge those who need separate checks.

  52. Yeah, wait, who is talking about thirty dollar differences in entrees? I don’t want to pay even five dollars I don’t have to. Perhaps I’m a miser or whatever, but fuck it, I need that five bucks. It adds up.

  53. I mentioned 30 dollars as the difference between a vegetarian and meat meal only as reference for the upper limit of what I’ve personally seen, obviously it can be much less or more, the point was, it’s not always chump change, and shouldn’t have to be partially footed by the vegetarian party.

  54. So if I sound at all hostile I want to be clear it is about him and people like him, not anyone on this thread least of all you!

    Thanks–I appreciate it. Honestly, I think I’m feeling defensive because I’m in no position to go to restaurants as often as some folks here seem to, let alone the types of places they go to. When I am able to go out with a friend or two, we split the check because a) we know it really will come out in the end and b) it’s a rare treat. Dunno–usually with us it’s more, “No I should throw more in because I had the green tea ice cream for dessert,” “Yeah, but I had beer, so I owe more,” “Oh, FFS, let’s just split it down the middle and get back to the house so we can watch Blackadder.”

    And your colleague sounds like a tool. He’s afraid of people using him for money? If he’s so afraid of that, let him go to the neighborhood Indian place and get a goddamn curry. Or bring a sandwich to your working meetings. FFS. It’s like the dude who wears a Rolex, drives a Bentley, and tries to find a girlfriend through Iwanttodatemillionaires dot com and then complains that people only like him because he’s rich. The humanity. . .

  55. And they mocked me for keeping a calculator in my purse….

    When it’s just me and my bf going out, we’re fine with splitting the check evenly. When I’m in a larger group, everyone puts down enough to cover their own shit + a few extra bucks. I can’t imagine expecting someone to subsidize my food, and I rarely eat at restaurants nicer than Friendly’s…

  56. You can go to Friday’s and get an appetizer as a meal with a glass of free water for less than ten bucks and get an entree thats close to 20 PLUS an appetizer PLUS a “specialty” drink and be looking at a 40 dollar bill.

    Again, call me an ass because I wont entitle other people to my money just because we sat at the same table. But I consider myself a very loved and lucky ass to have friends who do not feel entitled to my money to subsidize their meals when we go out on group outings.

    If I say beforehand, its on me, fine its on me, if I say I will help beforehand then fine I will help. but to order stuff you can’t even afford with the expectation that somebody at the table is going to “not be an ass” and make up the difference for you makes YOU an assand a huge pain on the wait staff and the restaurant. nobody is saying if you cant afford out of our price range, dont go, but either ask someone for help or stay within your budget. But assuming someone is going to help to the point where you call those who insist on paying their share an ass is fucked up.

  57. OR split the check and the people who order the more expensive items split the tip?

    Additionally, as a former waiter, large groups are a nightmare for the staff. Don’t tip less than 20 percent if you have more than six people. If you can’t afford the tip, you can’t afford a waiter.

  58. the other thing I dislike about big groups is often there is a difference of opinion in how much to pay for a tip…. some people throw in 10%, others 20%, and the people who (like me) don’t feel comfortable with anything less than 20% are left with the possibility of making up the entire shortfall of the tip, ‘cuz everyone else things it’s already adequate.

    (not to mention, large groups= should be larger tip) Another reason I prefer to eat at home.

  59. …ok I made the mistake of actually reading th elinked article ALL the way through and seeing ast paragraph and the “related articles.” Yeah, there is no way a super douche (author of the article) is going to tell me I’m an ass for not being the “schmuck pal.”

  60. Also, let’s be clear here: not all restaurants have Micros or other computer systems that do the math nicely for you. If your server is writing your check by hand, you are an absolute ass for trying to get an 8 way split on a check.

  61. Jill:

    If the bill is $100 and five people split it evenly on five different credit cards, it seems like it would take the same amount of time to run five cards for $20 each as it would to run one for $15, one for $25, etc. Yes, there is the time it takes for everybody to figure out what they owe, but plenty of people spend that much time (or longer) hanging out at a table just chatting, which also reduces table turnover, so unless you’re insisting that people sit, order, eat and GTFO, it seems like some chatter time (regardless of the topic) is built into the restaurant experience.

    Having a ready supply of cash is not easy for everybody. It’s easy to say “Well, if you don’t have cash, don’t go out to dinner,” but what would you say to somebody who was living paycheck to paycheck and wanted to go to their friend’s big birthday dinner the day before payday? Maybe they *have* to put it on a credit card or not go at all.

    I just can’t get behind the idea that “accommodating people with different financial situations” is the same as “putting up with pains in the ass.”

    1. If the bill is $100 and five people split it evenly on five different credit cards, it seems like it would take the same amount of time to run five cards for $20 each as it would to run one for $15, one for $25, etc. Yes, there is the time it takes for everybody to figure out what they owe, but plenty of people spend that much time (or longer) hanging out at a table just chatting, which also reduces table turnover, so unless you’re insisting that people sit, order, eat and GTFO, it seems like some chatter time (regardless of the topic) is built into the restaurant experience.

      Actually, it doesn’t, because the waitperson has to check your math before he/she can just run your cards. If it’s $100 and you hand her five cards, that math takes 2 seconds in her head. If it’s $100 and you hand her five cards with different dollar amounts attached to each of them, she has to go manually add all of those up to make sure it’s right (and half the time, come back and correct you when it’s wrong).

      And look, sometimes being a pain in the ass is justifiable for whatever reason. But that doesn’t mean you aren’t being a pain in the waitperson’s ass.

  62. Liza:
    I’m a vegetarian and therefore my meals are often significantly cheaper than everyone else’s when I go out. I guess that makes me an ass.

    I’ve actually NEVER been out to dinner with a group where anyone wanted to split the check evenly. So apparently everyone I know is an ass. At least I’m in like-minded assy company.

    Ditto. I do not understand why anyone would want to evenly split a check in a group where everyone gets different things. I’ve only done this with significant others. I suppose if the people in the group have a ton of money and don’t mind if they wind up paying for a bunch of stuff they didn’t order, it’s fine? Maybe my friends aren’t fancy enough for this problem.

    …And is there something wrong with telling the server to split the check? I truly don’t get it. When I was a server, I hugely preferred to give each person an individual check, because the pile of debit cards that inevitably resulted from giving everyone one check was a headache to sort out.

    1. …And is there something wrong with telling the server to split the check? I truly don’t get it. When I was a server, I hugely preferred to give each person an individual check, because the pile of debit cards that inevitably resulted from giving everyone one check was a headache to sort out.

      Most restaurants I’ve been to won’t actually do that for you. My understanding is that in the Midwest and the South, that’s standard practice, but it’s definitely not where I live.

    2. Also, maybe my group is unusual, but when we go out there’s a lot of sharing — a bottle of wine or two for the table, shared appetizers, entrees passed around or split, shared dessert, etc. There isn’t usually more than a $7-8 difference between the priciest entree at the table and the cheapest. It would be impossible for a waitperson to determine who exactly ordered what, and difficult to figure out around the table (“Jane and Jo split the calamari, but Lisa and Ann shared a cheese plate, and Jess took part of Tina’s burger…”). Part of the fun of eating, at least in my community, is sharing food. Which makes splitting things evenly make a lot more sense.

  63. To me it seems like people want to go to a restaurant and Have It [their own] Way without taking the responsibility of negotiating your exceptional needs with colleagues, friends and family ahead of time. You know what really is a pain in the ass? Poor planning and communication.

  64. Now that I’ve read the rest of the comment thread, let me alter what I said a little: NYC is an asshole for apparently refusing to split checks. The restaurant I worked at was Red Lobster, so it’s understandable that it would be easier than other, non-chain restaurants to quickly split some checks. But I’d have to agree that I think expecting one’s potentially broke-ass friends to pay for part of your food is much more asshole-ish than expecting a restaurant to have reasonable technology.

    1. Now that I’ve read the rest of the comment thread, let me alter what I said a little: NYC is an asshole for apparently refusing to split checks.

      Haha, possibly.

      I’ll add again that the food culture I engage in here almost always involves a lot of sharing — I can’t remember the last time I went to a meal (other than a business lunch) and just got my own entree and drink. At least at a lot of the places I frequent, and with the people I tend to eat out with, there is no clear delineation of who had what, so it would be really difficult for a waitperson to hand everyone a separate check. Also, these typically aren’t chain restaurants — they’re smaller places which don’t have the same technology as chains, so it is actually a lot more difficult for the waiters to calculate a 10-way bill split. And because they’re small, big groups are already difficult, and the longer you stay to figure out the bill, the longer 5 couples have to wait to sit down and eat.

  65. As an ex-waiter – I don’t give a shit if you split the check 16.5 ways, leave the payment in pennies, eat only unleavened bread and water or buy 11 cocktails…

    …just tip 20%, as long as I earned it.

    For some reason, the more work a table is, the worse they tip. Vegetarians and people with religious/dietary issues – terrible tippers. Foreign travelers with language barrier (especially euro) terrible tippers. Big groups – terrible tippers. People who order something and then lie and claim they didn’t – terrible fucking tippers, obviously.

    1. As an ex-waiter – I don’t give a shit if you split the check 16.5 ways, leave the payment in pennies, eat only unleavened bread and water or buy 11 cocktails…

      …just tip 20%, as long as I earned it.

      If you split the check 16.5 ways, have an enormous group, have people who show up late and place orders at different times, or otherwise create extra work for your waiter, you should tip more than 20%.

  66. Jill: Most restaurants I’ve been to won’t actually do that for you. My understanding is that in the Midwest and the South, that’s standard practice, but it’s definitely not where I live.

    That explains that, then.

  67. DP: Vegetarians and people with religious/dietary issues – terrible tippers. Foreign travelers with language barrier (especially euro) terrible tippers. Big groups – terrible tippers. People who order something and then lie and claim they didn’t – terrible fucking tippers, obviously.

    My observation is that the worst tippers are the ones who are very vocal about how awesome of a server you are. It’s like they truly believe that nice words pay bills. Anytime I heard, “You are really fast! Thanks for the great service!” I expected a 10% tip… and was rarely surprised with more.

  68. In large parties calculating tip shouldn’t be too much of a headache because most restaurants calculate it for you if you are in a large party, say, 6 or more. I do think that saying: “if you are over age X and do X, you are an ass” is annoying. If splitting equally works for you and your friends, great. If not, great. Being inconsiderate and a mooch is what is assy, however you work it.

    One way to minimize both headache and inequity is to have people pay for their own meals but split tip and tax equally. Unless meal costs are really really different, this usually isn’t too unfair. This is really easy to do when tip and tax are line itemized (which tax always is), but even if not you can figure out what 20% of the whole meal is, and then divide it by the # people at the table. The difficult thing with that is of course that tip should be written on the tip line to make sure the server gets it, but it’s easy to say, on top of your meal cost, everyone add in 1 dollar for tax and 2 dollars for tip, or whatever.

  69. Jill: My understanding is that in the Midwest and the South, that’s standard practice, but it’s definitely not where I live.

    Are we talking chain/fast casual/casual restaurants? Because if so, yes they will almost always split the check, box your food, and wipe your ass for you. But if we’re talking nicer restaurants, no, it’s not the norm most anywhere in the U.S.

    1. Are we talking chain/fast casual/casual restaurants? Because if so, yes they will almost always split the check, box your food, and wipe your ass for you.

      “Only two-ply at the end of my meal, please!”

  70. Emily: It seems like a lot of people are very defensive of continuing to expect other people to pay for more than their fair share when going out to eat in a group, and I really don’t understand why that is.If everybody agrees to split evenly, awesome.But if someone, for any reason at all, wants to not pay for someone else’s meal, I don’t understand why there is so much animosity towards that.Saying, “well if you can’t afford it then just don’t go out” seems really cold to me when it’s not that they can’t afford to pay their own way, but that they can’t afford to pay your way on top of that.

    This!

  71. the euro foreign travelers with a language barrier may totally not understand the culture of tipping here at all…. it’s my understanding that most European wait staff actually get full salaries, instead of depending on tips? Even if tourists have figured out in the US tips are expected, they may just not have figured out to what *extent* they’re expected… and just don’t get the whole tipping for a service they’re not used to tipping for at all.

    If I’m wrong, can someone correct me on this?

    1. the euro foreign travelers with a language barrier may totally not understand the culture of tipping here at all…. it’s my understanding that most European wait staff actually get full salaries, instead of depending on tips? Even if tourists have figured out in the US tips are expected, they may just not have figured out to what *extent* they’re expected… and just don’t get the whole tipping for a service they’re not used to tipping for at all.

      If I’m wrong, can someone correct me on this?

      That’s right. Tipping in most of Western Europe is standard, but not 20% — it’s usually closer to 10, at least in places I’ve been. For a lot of Europeans, the idea of tipping 20% just doesn’t occur, not out of spite or cheapness obviously.

    2. Yeah, we don’t tip at restaurants here in Australia, either, jemand, because waitstaff get paid properly… for the most part.

  72. evil fizz: Also, let’s be clear here: not all restaurants have Micros or other computer systems that do the math nicely for you. If your server is writing your check by hand, you are an absolute ass for trying to get an 8 way split on a check.

    Do people not know how to add anymore? Even if the check isnt already split up nobody gets amnesia and forgets what they ordered that fast, the person who does is an absolute ass. The deeper this thread goes the more I just see “entitled entitled entitled, pay for my food, pay for my food, you’re an ass if you wont subsidize my meal and who gives a shit if you can’t afford it, entitled entitled entitled.”

    Everyone has basic math skills, put them to use when going out as a group. I heard no one suggest that the person who ordered the most just take on the whole bill for everyone else or take on 20% of the bill and everyone else split the other 80%.

  73. jemand: the euro foreign travelers with a language barrier may totally not understand the culture of tipping here at all…. it’s my understanding that most European wait staff actually get full salaries, instead of depending on tips? Even if tourists have figured out in the US tips are expected, they may just not have figured out to what *extent* they’re expected… and just don’t get the whole tipping for a service they’re not used to tipping for at all.If I’m wrong, can someone correct me on this?

    You are correct, and it is a thing that comes down to culture. Unfortunately, “cultural differences” doesn’t do much to cool the rage at getting a $5 tip on a $75 meal you spent an hour dealing with.

    April:
    My observation is that the worst tippers are the ones who are very vocal about how awesome of a server you are.It’s like they truly believe that nice words pay bills.Anytime I heard, “You are really fast!Thanks for the great service!” I expected a 10% tip… and was rarely surprised with more.

    This is true, and a very weird thing. I never thought of it the way you put it – you may be right!

  74. Chally:
    Yeah, we don’t tip at restaurants here in Australia, either, jemand, because waitstaff get paid properly… for the most part.

    Right? This is the most frustrating part of it all. US restaurants rely on the customer to subsidize the server’s pay, and many restaurants pay tipped employees below minimum wage because they feel that the expectation of tips will make up for it. It’s absurd. Especially when you consider that the servers don’t get to keep all their tips, generally. At the chain I worked at, servers tipped 10% of their bar sales to the bartender, and a varying percentage to the bussers and dish scrapers for helping us clear tables. The bartenders were the only tipped employees who made more than minimum wage.

    We need some serious reform here when it comes to how servers and other traditionally tipped employees are paid.

  75. Azalea: The deeper this thread goes the more I just see “entitled entitled entitled, pay for my food, pay for my food, you’re an ass if you wont subsidize my meal and who gives a shit if you can’t afford it, entitled entitled entitled.”

    Personally, I’m seeing a lot of “entitled entitled entitled, I’m a special snowflake, bend to my will, entitled entitled entitled.”

    It’s probably not a bad time to remind people that college student-poor isn’t the same as poor-poor, so yeah, let’s make sure to draw a line around that one.

  76. As someone who is headed back to college, and is on an fixed income due to disability, even five extra dollars counts. I’m in Maine and don’t eat at fancy restaurants when I am able to go out. Still even at the nicer places I go to, I’m not willing to subsidize my friends’ meals. No one has ever had an issue with this. I’m medically unable to drink, so why in the world would I pay for drinks?

    I think this is more than an US vs no US issue, because I am in the US. It’s also apparently a class issue and regional issue. I didn’t realize things that are totally normal in my and my parents social circles made us asses.

  77. Do people not know how to add anymore?

    Back when I did go out with large groups of people (and we did try to split the checks according to what each of us ordered), it wasn’t uncommon for people had a few drinks to add up their portion wrong (or to forget what they ordered/split with someone, etc.). There was always an unaccounted-for glass of wine or beer, etc. I don’t think anyone was being an ass or being entitled, trying to get others to pay for their meals, I think they just plain forgot they had three beers instead of two or that they split an appetizer with so-and-so or whatever. They were just being forgetful. It happens. Unfortunately, the server would have to double-check, and if it was really busy or a small restaurant with pressure to move customers, they could get serious blowback from management or other customers if it took time. It’s a big reason why, even if I sweated gold coins, I’d rather not go out to eat in large groups ever again, because settling up was such a monumental pain in the ass–for us and for the server (who had to check).

    1. Basically what Sheelzebub said — people do the math wrong or forget things. Also, when there’s big groups, people actually don’t know how to properly add up 10 different entrees and 8 different appetizers, some of which were shared, and who had which drink out of the 15 beers on the list, etc. As the article also says, every single one of my friends went to a stupid liberal arts school, so we didn’t learn math.

  78. Haha, this thread makes me feel like a terrible person. I’m very, very good at adding things up in my head, so I pretty much just grab the bill when it arrives and go round asking people what they had so I can tell them how much they owe.

    Basically I’m an arsehole, but it stops any arguments before they start. Although everybody amongst my friends is happy to split things according to what they actually ate, there’s always that one guy who has to complain (and it’s never the same guy twice, maybe I scare them away). If I have to be the bigger arsehole in order to keep the peace, I’ll do it. I don’t see why the one person who had three courses including steak should get away with not paying their fair share.

  79. Jill: As the article also says, every single one of my friends went to a stupid liberal arts school, so we didn’t learn math.

    Y’all need some boyfriends to do your math for you. #mathishard

  80. My observation is that the worst tippers are the ones who are very vocal about how awesome of a server you are. It’s like they truly believe that nice words pay bills. Anytime I heard, “You are really fast! Thanks for the great service!” I expected a 10% tip… and was rarely surprised with more.

    When I waited tables, we called that the “verbal gratuity.”

  81. Generally in the circles I move in these days, the most sober or most arithmetically skilled person gets stuck with the job of divvying up the check to make sure everyone puts in something roughly equivalent to what they paid for, rounded up to allow for the tip.

    Usually that means there’s a pile of cash and a couple of cards. If the group ordered three bottles of wine they get split evenly between everyone but the non-drinkers (who get to pay for their own juice). When all the cash has been added up and the figures from the cards added in, it ought to add up to the cost of the bill plus about 10% (because this is the UK and waitstaff get paid properly). If it doesn’t, then there’s a general round of “please kick in a bit more” (and quite often someone remembers about a starter or a basket of bread).

    It takes time, yes, but it beats sitting there watching sourly as the assistant manager orders the most expensive meal on the menu and tops that with a bottle of beer, and then he kicks in £10 for a £15 meal while I pay £10 for my £4.95 baked potato with double filling. While, you know, obviously this makes me an ass and him a good sensible person, I still want him to pay for his own goddam lunch and this was fifteen years ago.

  82. I’m in the Midwest (Ohio) and I’ve never been to a restaurant where the waiters had any problem giving separate checks at all. I go out with large groups fairly often since I’m active with different groups in my church, and even when we’re really complicated and say those two are together, those 3 together, those 4 are separate, etc, and even when we say that at the end of the meal instead of as we’re ordering the waiter doesn’t even blink. So it’s really weird for me to think that this could be a problem for the waiters.

    I think you should try to be as nice as you can to the wait staff, but sometimes you need something that’s a little out of the ordinary. I’m semi-vegan and I can’t digest cheese well at all, so I often have to order something that’s not really on the menu but it looks like they can do it based on the other things on the menu. In that case, I just ask as nice as I can, and then tip a little extra. It’s good to be sympathetic to waiters and waitresses, but don’t hold back on things you need. I’m sure they’d rather do a little more work than not have your business, and tips, at all. Unless they refuse to do something basic like giving separate checks, then they don’t want your business and you shouldn’t give it to them.

  83. Actually, Gembird, you might have a fantastic business opportunity. You could be the professional math-whiz asshole, lol.

    I’m really glad no one ordered a three-course steak meal when I went out with a large group of people (HOLY FUCK THAT IS JUST I DON’T EVEN). But usually, going out with a large group in my case meant drinks (oftentimes for me, soda water) and appetizers–so the confusion was around people forgetting how many drinks they had or who shared which appetizers. Or someone forgetting (or being too tipsy to remember) to carry the three. We could have used a math-whiz asshole.

  84. Sheelzebub:
    Actually, Gembird, you might have a fantastic business opportunity.You could be the professional math-whiz asshole, lol.

    I’m really glad no one ordered a three-course steak meal when I went out with a large group of people (HOLY FUCK THAT IS JUST I DON’T EVEN).But usually, going out with a large group in my case meant drinks (oftentimes for me, soda water) and appetizers–so the confusion was around people forgetting how many drinks they had or who shared which appetizers.Or someone forgetting (or being too tipsy to remember) to carry the three.We could have used a math-whiz asshole.

    Actually, I’m a research technician, so I’m kind of a professional maths-whiz arsehole already 😀

    I think it also helps that a lot of my friends don’t drink, so there’s always somebody who remembers the orders on behalf of those that do.

    (oh my god, I sound INCREDIBLY BRITISH WHAT WHAT JOLLY GOOD in these comments)

  85. As a former waitress and current patron, I had the opposite experience: the “hey great service” folks always left a bigger than usual tip. Also, if I say “thanks, great service” to my server on the way out, I mean it and there is 25-30% left on the table.

    I always say it when it’s true because I was a server and still remember 2 memorable big table stiffings: both on the same Mother’s Day. 🙁 Horrible.

    (Also — special animosity for those who left NO tip but a “come to Jesus” tract instead. *slow burn*)

  86. In my social circles, we all try to bring enough cash – with maybe one or two people who have to use cards – so at the end of the meal we all hand our money to the person who has to pay by card, and they pay for the full meal.

    Shared dishes have never really been an issue: generally one person will announce “Hey, I’d like to buy us garlic bread” and then they’ve taken responsibility for paying for that item, regardless of how many people eat it.

    Tipping’s not really a factor, because I’m in Australia. You only tip in exceptional circumstances.

  87. Everyone has basic math skills, put them to use when going out as a group. I heard no one suggest that the person who ordered the most just take on the whole bill for everyone else or take on 20% of the bill and everyone else split the other 80%.

    No, my point is that if your server is doing the math by hand, calculating the tax, and trying to divide and appetizer 3 ways, you are creating a massive inconvenience for the waitstaff.

  88. As a server, it’s really time consuming when a large party pays separately using different methods. When some people are handing you twenties for their bill and asking for change, and then other people throw 8 different credit cards at you, it’s really just annoying. A lot of places now have limits on how many methods of payment can be used for that very reason.

    Fortunately at the place I work, that rarely happens. Usually it’s business people, who will put everything on one card, or a group of wealthy women who all chip in with cash. The most check splitting I have had to do it for couples- like 2 separate couples want two separate checks. That’s easy, since it’s just two credit cards, and people are already separated in the computer system by seat number.

    As for gratuity, we can add 18% for parties over 8, but rarely do. We have a pretty upscale clientele at this place, and most people will leave more, especially when it’s a large party. And yes, everyone should have to work as a server at some point. If you can’t afford to eat and tip, you should eat at home.

  89. Most people I hang out with throw down cash, with maybe a couple credit cards. I don’t think checking the math on a couple credit cards is too onerous: the waitstaff has to add up bills and/or coins if there’s no cash which just isn’t all that different. Maybe I’m missing something there?

    If we’re doing significant amounts of sharing, then yes, that is different. Usually everybody throws in the same amount for a pizza, as an example, and nobody tries to renege even if you only ate two slices instead of your allotted three or whatever.

    Maybe I just hang out with people who use cash for food way more? Restaurants are basically the only thing I use cash for at all nowadays, but I definitely do use it.

    “Yeah, we don’t tip at restaurants here in Australia, either, jemand, because waitstaff get paid properly… for the most part.”

    Huh. When I visited Australia, I gave the waiters got 15%, which is pretty typical in Canada. Guess they’re lucky ducks.

    On the flip side, I was horrified when I learned that 20% was more what was expected in the US, because I’d been tipping 15% when I visted there too.

    The fact that tipping rules change with borders is something that isn’t obvious, at all. Ideally I think restaurants should just pay waitstaff (and cooks and anyone else who gets a cut of the tip) reasonably and specify that tips are not expected at this restaurant — that’s easier to understand and gets rid of the problem of assholes who just won’t tip properly even though they know better. Failing that, I think the world would be a simpler place if a “reasonable tip” was actually posted somewhere. You could even print a “suggested tip” right on the bill, pre-calculated so there’s no chance of math errors. I get that this is seen as uncouth or something, but it really shouldn’t be. If you want your staff to be paid in tips, you need to tell your customers how their tip relates to their staff’s pay, or mistakes will happen.

  90. My fave dining annoyance is when people decide to pay item by item but then deny that they have purchased certain items, so everyone else has to pay more because they can’t be bothered paying for what they have ordered (unfortanately, my brother in law and his family are known offenders on this count). It means I get to subsidise others more expensive, meat containing meals even when we split by item.

    The problem is, in a social group there may be people trying to freeload, and often they are not the people with the least cash. And if they are the people with the least cash, they will usually ask you first to cover for them and be extremely apologetic. I have met many freeloaders could pay but chose not to.

  91. Ens: Huh.When I visited Australia, I gave the waiters got 15%, which is pretty typical in Canada.Guess they’re lucky ducks.

    *nods*

    Aussie waiters really like North Americans – they get tips!

    IME, most restaurants here will have a tip jar by the door, so if you’re feeling nice or just wanting to get rid of spare change, you can throw something in. It’s definitely not expected, though.

  92. I my social circle, there’s generally two models – split evenly, or someone picks up the tab with the expectation that over time, things will even out. Personally, I find people who nit-pick over pennies annoying – and no, I didn’t grow up financially privileged, and I felt the same way back when I really didn’t have anything to spare. Basically, I grew up with money being such a fucking bid deal because we had none; I don’t want to hassle with money stuff if I can at all avoid it.

    These days, I’m more likely to be the one picking up the tab or throwing in extra for the common pot.

  93. This is why restaurants that ask “are you guys paying separately” always get my renewed custom and good tips. That way they keep better trac of who ordered what, causing less confusion at the end. And anyway, it doesn’t take any longer to pay the same amount on five cards than different amounts on five cards. Not to mention, everyone has a goddamn calculator on them wherever the go cause of CELL PHONES. So start living in the 21st Century.

    @Jill and @Sheezlebub, remember that Friends episode? The One With Five Steaks and The Eggplant? Why don’t you guys rewatch that and remind yourself of what it’s like to be the friends who end up costing their low income friends $50 when they only ordered a garden salad.

  94. jemand – you are right about the difference. My parents had a place in London for a while in an area with many Arabs and they were the only ones to tip the doormen at Christmas. The neighbors were good people they just did not know, and in their culture Christmas was not important anyway. When they found out they were mortified.

    Funnily enough after years in the US, I just got in trouble this very evening for being in my native UK and trying to tip the coat check gal and the bartender, which apparently I shouldn’t have done. D’oh!

  95. I think if I ever go overseas, I’ll post on my blog asking everyone who I’ll need to tip. Otherwise I’m bound to get it wrong…

  96. Add my name to the list of those who want the check split. Best option: bring cash and appropriate amounts of change, which I always try to do unless it’s a spur of the moment meal. Thing is, I’m a vegetarian and I have never made enough money to afford the higher priced things plus drinks. I always order the cheapest item and water, but leave large tips. I really don’t want to be paying for someone else’s steak and fancy drinks when I’m having the inexpensive vegi sandwich and water. I also don’t want to just stay home every time because I don’t make enough money to pay for someone else’s steak and drinks. The worst times are when I’ve been obligated to go because it is with coworkers, coworkers who made oodles of money while I was making pittance as their administrative assistant, and coworkers who choose the more pricey restaurant because they can’t be bothered to think about whether their assistant can afford it. (These obligation restaurant meals were never covered by the company because they were supposedly optional, but of course that does not mean actually optional.) I don’t think that makes me an asshole, especially since I try to avoid giving the waiter/waitress another card.

  97. Today I had a group of four (old, unattractive) men hand me 8 credit cards. No joke. Each wanted their alcohol on one and their itemized meal on another. Traveling businessmen are the worst.

  98. Maybe I, and all of my friends, are math-whiz assholes? ‘Cause we’ve never had a problem getting organized and doing a little math in order to split the check (even after a few drinks.) We always check the total after contributing our money + tip + tax to the bill and it’s never been too little, and that usually gets a few dollars thrown on top of it anyways. So this whole debate is somewhat foreign to me.

    I don’t think you’re being an asshole if you want to pay only for your own food and you’re fairly competent. If you’re trying to pay only for your own food AND you’re drunk AND you’re bad at math AND you’re ordering off-menu… yeah, that’s probably well into asshole territory by now. :p

  99. I disagree completely. Personally, I detest going out to places which dont allow bill – splitting. I think its lazy of them and highly inconvenient for their clientele who have just spent their time and good money in their establishment.
    Also, after reading this little gem from the writer:
    “…but if you’re not even sleeping with me, why am I paying for you? Your less cute friends don’t pull this shit; they’re civilized and understand that not everything in life is handed out on a silver platter. This is one reason why there should be a law requiring YAFs to pass some sort of basic etiquette test before they’re allowed to hang out in public with the gen pop. Honestly, is there any sub-species of human more ill-behaved than a young attractive female? I don’t think so.)”
    I couldn’t actually care less about anything else he had to say.
    What an absolute WANKER.

  100. Katie,

    LAZY?!? Are you kidding? You try working ten tables solo during dinner rush. Have you considered that maybe your wait staff is busy serving others in the restaurant?

  101. @Jill

    I also live in the NYC area, and there are plenty of quality restaurants that will split your check if you ask them to before you place your order. Admittedly, I don’t know where your neighborhood haunts are, but if you need recommendations, let me know 😉

    To whoever mentioned college-student-poor vs. poor-poor

    I have to admit my own privilege. I am definitely college-student-poor, and so when all of my other college-student-poor friends go out, we get separate checks. Again, most of the places I’ve been to in NY and NJ have never had an issue with it. If they do, we do not patronize those places. It’s prettyy simple.

    Also, given that most waiters I have tend to my age, I tip at least 20% for even adequate service. Most of my friends (including myself) have waited tables at some time or another so.. yeah. It’s a personal matter.

    And! For the veggies out there: I feel you so hard. I’m not a vegetarian, but I rarely eat expensive steak-dinners when I’m out. However, I guess I just have understanding friends. The steak-dinnerers tended to have had a good night waiting tables 😉

  102. I get paid significantly more than many of my friends, so I just try to grab the check when it comes. Or, if there are a couple of us with more fun money, we’ll split it (but still offer a free meal to our unemployed or underemployed friends). Cause it sucks not being able to go out because you don’t have the cash and I want us all to have fun and be able to enjoy ourselves. It doesn’t all even out – there are a couple of friends who will never be able to pick up the cheque without a lottery win – but it doesn’t matter.

    And yeah, bi woman here, but guess I don’t count in the world of that article.

  103. I don’t mind subsidizing a drink or two, though I don’t drink, but I’ve had experiences where people (interestingly, not young women, but middle-aged dudes) racked up a $300 cocktail bill and then expected me to shell out $100. That was on top of the $30 meal I had. That’s just rude. Have some consideration for your fellow diners, or at least be prepared to subsidize your own lush ass.

  104. Personally, I detest going out to places which dont allow bill – splitting. I think its lazy of them and highly inconvenient for their clientele who have just spent their time and good money in their establishment.

    Again, this is why everyone should be forced to work in food service. No server running a full station during the dinner rush should ever be called lazy for not wanting to split a check 8 ways.

  105. evil fizz:
    Personally, I detest going out to places which dont allow bill – splitting. I think its lazy of them and highly inconvenient for their clientele who have just spent their time and good money in their establishment.

    Again, this is why everyone should be forced to work in food service.No server running a full station during the dinner rush should ever be called lazy for not wanting to split a check 8 ways.

    No, but it’s still true that it would be really beneficial to a lot of people if restaurants could standardize their technology.

    maribelle1963: (Also — special animosity for those who left NO tip but a “come to Jesus” tract instead. *slow burn*)

    They were the worst! And it always felt so creepy to pick those nasty things off the table. I’d always think, “I was so nice to you!! And this whole time, you thought I was a poor hell-bound heathen!” It is strangely more deeply annoying than you’d think, if you haven’t dealt with it.

  106. “But “you ordered the salmon and I only got a burger” is irritating” – I dunno, I call classism. Maybe that’s extreme, but I’ve spoken to people about this before and I feel like there’s an element of classism in what they have said.

    Someone else said ‘politics of indifference’, and the vegetarian tax. For me it would be an alcohol tax – I don’t drink, and often the bill can include multiple beers or even wines.

    I’ve often been out and done a little math, but splitting it evenly is more regular. I don’t mind because I can afford it, but when I’m broke it’s stressful. I once went out to dinner with a bunch of people and my friend was so stressed out about the total cost, it made a big difference to her budget (and for the record, it wasn’t lavish by any means). But it’s actually so socially awkward to ask to pay less, because you’re made to feel cheap, partly by attitudes like that.

    My partner says it’s ridiculous to pay less and you should be willing to pay because it’s what you should do – it’s in the spirit of being out with friends – but that attitude just completely ignores the difficulty you would face when being broke and trying to maintain a social life with people from disparate income groups. And our group loves going out to eat, and there can be quite a few of us.

    I don’t mind, like I said, because I can afford it – but I wonder if people take it for granted that everyone can afford it when they follow that model. Anyway. Thank goodness for the lifestyle I have in the city I’m in and the welfare I’m on!!!

  107. @Jill and @Sheezlebub, remember that Friends episode? The One With Five Steaks and The Eggplant? Why don’t you guys rewatch that and remind yourself of what it’s like to be the friends who end up costing their low income friends $50 when they only ordered a garden salad.

    @Sarah–Remember my posts? The ones YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN’T FUCKING READ? You could actually read what I fucking wrote instead of going off half cocked on things I didn’t actually say. Honestly, I’m getting really fucking tired of repeating myself to people who seem determined to generate outrage by making up shit that I’ve said. Here! I’ll cut and past for you:

    Look–I have been in the position where I didn’t order much/didn’t drink anything and had to split “evenly” with others. What pissed me off was the tinge of self-righteousness of people who didn’t want to subsidize meat eaters–and I wanted to point out that it’s not just vegetarians who subsidize people (again–I had to split checks when the vegetarians had several glasses of wine and desert and I had an inexpensive entree only).

    I’m saying that if your friends expect you to split the check “evenly” when they consistently order more alcohol/desert/expensive entrees (it’s not always the meat entrees that are more expensive) then you might want to find more considerate people to hang out with. I don’t quibble over the difference because the places my friends and I go do don’t have such a huge difference in meal prices–and I don’t quibble over paying for someone’s wine or beer because they didn’t quibble over my desert the last time.

    And:

    Emily, if you’d bothered to read what I wrote–which you didn’t, obviously–you’d see that I didn’t “quibble” over it because these friends are considerate and it does even out–I don’t freak out over splitting the check that includes wine because they didn’t freak out over splitting the check that included ice cream. And where I said that if your friends are constantly ordering more expensive things and expecting you to pay for them, then they aren’t very good friends and you’d be better off without them. And you also would have seen that I’m still scrimping–see: my mind boggles at the $30 difference in entrees.

    But obviously! My going out to the odd neighborhood Chinese or Indian restaurant a few times a year (as opposed to places with huge differences in entree prices, etc.) with people who show each other consideration means that I’m really fucking rich or whatever. Fuck off.

    AND:

    Honestly, I think I’m feeling defensive because I’m in no position to go to restaurants as often as some folks here seem to, let alone the types of places they go to. . .

    Jesus. I’m glad some of you can afford to go out with some fucking regularity, but some of us can’t. My saying that what I do with one or two friends the few times a year we can actually afford to grab Chinese or Indian isn’t a judgement on you (and pointing out that the vegetarian tax isn’t the only tax that’s gotten levied on people–SEE: my comments about being expected to subsidize the vegetarians who knocked back a few glasses of wine while I had a small entree and water). For Christ’s sweet sake.

  108. maribelle1963: Also — special animosity for those who left NO tip but a “come to Jesus” tract instead. *slow burn*)

    Holy shit. WWJD? I’m pretty sure he would tip!

  109. wondering:
    And yeah,bi woman here, but guess I don’t count in the world of that article.

    Grabbing the check and moving on is a bi thing? Count me in. 😉

    Anyway – what she said, exactly.

  110. Lars: I my social circle, there’s generally two models – split evenly, or someone picks up the tab with the expectation that over time, things will even out. .These days, I’m more likely to be the one picking up the tab or throwing in extra for the common pot.

    I am seriousy curious now, what is your definition iof “large group” because when I go out with a large group its about 12-19 people and unless you’re dining at McDonald’s that would be way more than 10 dollars per person and easiy looking at dropping $300 dollars or more. I dont see the logic in being poor and having an extra $300.00 (thats like the cost of an abortion PLUS some right?) or MORE lying around to go to a group dinner or deciding not to go just because you cant afford to subsidize everyone else’s meal. Even if the group is smaller (say 8) the chances of 8 people averaging out to 10 dollars a person is little to none. Even at IHOP a stack of pancakes is what 5.99 a drink is what 2.99 and dessert or tea/coffee puts you over 10 before you even add taxes, let alone the 20% gratuity. I’ll admit to going to “pricier” ( I love Cheesecake Factory and Kobe’s salmon and presentation is AWESOME) but if you go as a group and take on the bill by yourself thats a big deal because its expensive no matter where you go, its just MORE expensive at pricier places.

  112. Ha! This is a problem I never had. 😀

    I’m from Germany and here it is normal to tell the server if you pay separately or together. They come with the bill and check with you everything you had and then they tell you the price (if they don’t already remember what you had). But we have the advantage of included taxes and service, so the server only has to add up what you had. Also it is uncommon to pay by credit card. But even if you don’t pay the bill separately there’s other ways to make it fair. My friends or my boyfriend and I usually give the one who pays everything the money for what you had. It’s easy since we know what we’re gonna pay from the beginning.

    I too used to be a waitress at a bar and it wasn’t much of a nuisance to me to bill evey guest separately (also thanks to my good memory I know who had what) I guess because it’s so common here. Also you have better chances for some nice tipps. A tip of 5-10% is common but many people don’t pay attention to it. They rather round up their bill to even numbers (for example a bill of 8,70€ will be 10,00€).

    The concept of splitting your bill at a reastaurant evenly never occured to me. It always seemed unfair to me. And yeah I’m vegan and I don’t drink alcohol. 😀

  113. Count me in as another who doesn’t like subsidizing the food of others. Back when it was just the chronic health problems that made eating a tricky business, I would eat very little when I went out (and of course, I wouldn’t drink). Any time someone would suggest that we “split the bill evenly” it would piss me off greatly, since I would be eating less than $10 worth of food, but everyone would expect me to cough up $30.

    Once I went out with this guy I really didn’t even like (had nothing better to do). We went to a restaurant that was kind of expensive to begin with (table charge) and then he just kept ordering food and booze, ordering food and booze, ordering food and booze … when I said I was worried about the bill, he said, “Oh, it’s no problem.” Then the bill came and the total was $88. He decided we should split it. I wasn’t just a poor college student, but a poor college student in a foreign country. To say I was angry … would be the understatement of the century.

    Nowadays, because I have severe restrictions on what I can eat (health reasons), I just don’t go out to eat anymore. Watching everyone eat while I sip on tea is no fun, and I’m not going to pay $20 for a restaurant to give me unseasoned meat with unseasoned vegetables and all the other side items/salads/whatever stripped away. And god help me if I did go anywhere to get my beverage and someone tried to make me pay their share of the bill. They might find my beverage on their head.

    Then my mother complains that I’m so antisocial and don’t make any friends. When most social interactions revolve around food and drink and I can’t partake of either … pfft. People are overrated anyway.

  114. Jill: My problem isn’t with the theory of itemizing the check — again, in theory, that should be fine. But in practice it’s a shitshow, especially if you live in a place (like New York) where restaurants do not bring diners separate checks. First of all, restaurants in a lot of NY tend to be small, so if you’re a group of 10 anywhere outside of a corporate-y restaurant catering to businessfolks, you’re already putting strain on the waitstaff. Second, if the check comes and the people who only want to pay for what they ordered don’t have cash (and people routinely don’t have cash on them), you get a scenario where the waiter or waitress gets handed 10 different credit cards and is instructed to charge 10 different amounts. The chances of it all actually adding up properly are slim; it takes 20 minutes to figure out what everyone owes; it takes 15 minutes for the waitperson to run all of your cards; and inevitably someone doesn’t add up the price of their food adequately and the waitperson ends up getting short-changed on their tip. In the meantime, all of his or her other tables are being ignored, your table isn’t being turned over on time, etc etc. It is an enormous pain in the ass. It is why waitpersons hate large groups.

    So yes, in big groups, it is MUCH easier to just split everything evenly. If that’s not possible and you only want to pay for exactly what you ordered, ok — you can mitigate being a pain in the ass by having enough cash on you, and by adequately adding up what you did plus 30% for tax and tip. In my experience with big groups, though, this absolutely does not happen. Which is why it’s annoying.

    So convenience is a good excuse for perpetuating injustice? Every cell phone has a calculator– in any large group someone has a cell phone. Put that one person in charge of determining who owes what, the end. Takes like, 5 extra minutes and doesn’t screw over people without money.

    1. So convenience is a good excuse for perpetuating injustice? Every cell phone has a calculator– in any large group someone has a cell phone. Put that one person in charge of determining who owes what, the end. Takes like, 5 extra minutes and doesn’t screw over people without money.

      Which, again, would be totally fine if it actually worked in large groups. What ends up happening is that someone (or multiple people) never end up paying enough, and others end up tossing in a TON of extra money to cover them (the last time I went out with a group and people only paid what they thought they “owed,” I ended up tossing in an extra $40 so that the person whose card it was on didn’t end up over-paying alone). Again, maybe my perspective is a by-product of dining with people who all enjoy food and who don’t nickel and dime each other; we talk beforehand to pick a restaurant we can all afford, we share wine (and if someone has one glass and someone else has two, not the end of times), we share food, and we split the bill. No one whines that they’re paying an extra 50 cents toward someone else’s meat dish when they’re a morally-superior vegetarian (all of my vegetarian friends choose to be non-annoying about their vegetarianism, which is why we are friends). If someone comes to the dinner and actually does only order a salad and water while everyone else eats steak and drinks wine, then of COURSE no one expects them to pony up more than whatever they actually consumed. But honestly, I don’t do repeat dinners with people like that — not because they didn’t pay, but because people who don’t eat well are really boring to eat with, when you’re someone who values communal dining and sharing food and eating heartily (not that they can’t be great people in other respects; I’m just not going to plan dinner with them).

      Look, if you want to itemize the bill with your friends and not even round up to the nearest cent for your tabbouleh salad, go for it! Seriously, do it. We will not be dining together, but I doubt either of us will be sad about that. But I reserve the right to believe that it is inconvenient. And I reserve the right to believe that it goes past the point of inconvenient and into the realm of pain-in-your-assness when you hand the waiter 10 cards with 10 different amounts to charge.

      Also, LOL at “perpetuating injustice.” I think it’s perpetuating injustice to treat waitstaff like they exist for you and you alone.

  115. Obviously this guy needs to take a course before he is let out into society. I’m thinking one about privilege specifically. He ought to recognize his own before he gets to complain about “YAFs”.

  116. Jill: Which, again, would be totally fine if it actually worked in large groups. What ends up happening is that someone (or multiple people) never end up paying enough, and others end up tossing in a TON of extra money to cover them (the last time I went out with a group and people only paid what they thought they “owed,” I ended up tossing in an extra $40 so that the person whose card it was on didn’t end up over-paying alone). Again, maybe my perspective is a by-product of dining with people who all enjoy food and who don’t nickel and dime each other; we talk beforehand to pick a restaurant we can all afford, we share wine (and if someone has one glass and someone else has two, not the end of times), we share food, and we split the bill. No one whines that they’re paying an extra 50 cents toward someone else’s meat dish when they’re a morally-superior vegetarian (all of my vegetarian friends choose to be non-annoying about their vegetarianism, which is why we are friends). If someone comes to the dinner and actually does only order a salad and water while everyone else eats steak and drinks wine, then of COURSE no one expects them to pony up more than whatever they actually consumed. But honestly, I don’t do repeat dinners with people like that — not because they didn’t pay, but because people who don’t eat well are really boring to eat with, when you’re someone who values communal dining and sharing food and eating heartily (not that they can’t be great people in other respects; I’m just not going to plan dinner with them).

    Look, if you want to itemize the bill with your friends and not even round up to the nearest cent for your tabbouleh salad, go for it! Seriously, do it. We will not be dining together, but I doubt either of us will be sad about that. But I reserve the right to believe that it is inconvenient. And I reserve the right to believe that it goes past the point of inconvenient and into the realm of pain-in-your-assness when you hand the waiter 10 cards with 10 different amounts to charge.

    Also, LOL at “perpetuating injustice.” I think it’s perpetuating injustice to treat waitstaff like they exist for you and you alone.

    Sure, but waitstaff are not the only people involved here.

    As many people have pointed out, often eating out is not purely social. You can’t just opt out of lunch with your whole office or with your boss.

    You’re being so judgmental about people who don’t have your economic flexibility.

    Now not only do they not have money but they’re also boring, petty people you won’t deign to be around socially anymore. That’s really understanding of you!

    It’s like you’ve taken what’s normal for your group of economically privileged friends and extrapolated that if it’s not like that for everyone on earth it means they are bad people.

    1. It’s like you’ve taken what’s normal for your group of economically privileged friends and extrapolated that if it’s not like that for everyone on earth it means they are bad people.

      No, actually, I didn’t say that. I said that people without much economic flexibility should make that clear ahead of time so that everyone can enjoy themselves. I also said that people who don’t enjoy eating, or who are picky, or who are only going to get a salad aren’t bad people, but also aren’t people who I personally enjoy eating with. And business lunches are very different than social lunches with friends.

      Also, what’s with the assumption that everyone is apparently being screwed into paying for someone else’s food? If you eat out with the same people regularly, it probably does happen where sometimes Person A orders more, and then other times Person B orders more. Again, maybe this is a cultural thing (and no, not all of my friends are economically privileged; and yes, even when I was in school and not really “poor-poor” but certainly on an extremely tight budget, I told my friends I’d prefer going to more affordable places, and then I would split the bill instead of freaking out over $3). I just don’t enjoy eating with people who quibble over money (again, there is a reasonableness factor here if it’s steak vs. salad or a difference of more than $10 or so), or people who are picky with food, or who otherwise make what should be an enjoyable experience a math challenge or an exercise in who can make the kitchen staff work harder. Personal preference.

      And yes, I am being judgmental on the internet.

  117. I guess I’m just confused about when it became “normal” to expect people to pay for more than what they ordered. If people are comfortable doing that, more power to them, but I only order what I can pay for, and I don’t think that means I should become a hermit.

    I’ve been a waitress, and there’s no doubt that it can be a pain to split checks, especially when you’re busy, but there’s also no doubt that when you do it, you get bigger tips. People are calmer, and thus less worried about paying more than they wanted. They’re also grateful you agreed to split the check. If I was slammed, I’d just be upfront that it might take a while to split, and people were usually okay with that. I learned early on that the person who gets screwed the quickest when a restaurant won’t split a check was me, the waitress. I viewed check splitting as part of my job, and with the computers most restaurants use these days, it wasn’t difficult, it just took a few minutes. I could see being infuriated if I had to do all the math by hand, but I don’t totally understand why so many people think wait staff are (and should be) pissed when checks get split. You all ordered different food too. I was able to keep track of that.

    As a diner, I would be horrified if some of my friends who make less money felt they could only eat dinner with me if they had the cash to pay for my higher priced meal. I’ve been the person who suddenly doesn’t have enough money for the meal because of the way the bill is being split and it’s mortifying. Asking for bills to be split according to what each person ate isn’t an asshole thing to do at all. If a group of friends has a different, agreed upon, arrangement, that’s great, but unless everyone sat down to the meal knowing that they’d be expected to pay for Friend A’s dessert and Friend B’s wine, it’s not fair to expect that. No, it really isn’t.

    Please don’t say that people shouldn’t go out to dinner if they can’t afford to split it all evenly. What you really mean, is they shouldn’t go out to dinner with YOU, because you only want to hang out with people who can comfortably spend the exact same amount of money you can comfortably spend.

  118. Thanks for the thread and the discussion. Before I read it, I was firmly on the side of “it’s irritating to quibble over money. Just split the bill,” although I always obliged friends who asked to do so, and never argued with them.

    After reading the thread, I realize that was incredibly privileged of me: I make a lot of money relative to my friends (relative to just about ANYONE, these days – I’ve been very lucky), and always have, and while none of us are poor college students (we weren’t even when we were actually in college – firmly upper-middle-class all the way), still – I have no idea how they organize their financial lives. I will definitely be keeping that in mind in the future.

    So yeah. Re-examining privilege. Thanks for that.

  119. Jill: No, actually, I didn’t say that. I said that people without much economic flexibility should make that clear ahead of time so that everyone can enjoy themselves. I also said that people who don’t enjoy eating, or who are picky, or who are only going to get a salad aren’t bad people, but also aren’t people who I personally enjoy eating with. And business lunches are very different than social lunches with friends.

    Also, what’s with the assumption that everyone is apparently being screwed into paying for someone else’s food? If you eat out with the same people regularly, it probably does happen where sometimes Person A orders more, and then other times Person B orders more. Again, maybe this is a cultural thing (and no, not all of my friends are economically privileged; and yes, even when I was in school and not really “poor-poor” but certainly on an extremely tight budget, I told my friends I’d prefer going to more affordable places, and then I would split the bill instead of freaking out over $3). I just don’t enjoy eating with people who quibble over money (again, there is a reasonableness factor here if it’s steak vs. salad or a difference of more than $10 or so), or people who are picky with food, or who otherwise make what should be an enjoyable experience a math challenge or an exercise in who can make the kitchen staff work harder. Personal preference.

    And yes, I am being judgmental on the internet.

    Yes, it is indeed a bummer to find out that one of your friends is budgeting so closely that while they can afford to spend time out with you, they can’t afford to budget a random x dollars that you find insignificant on the experience.

    But what should upset you is that your friend is in such a situation, not at that you were forced to become aware of her monetary situation at the end of the meal.

    But apparently you think she should just stay home, rather than see her friends– who supposedly care for her whether or not she has money– because if she reveals her troubles she is an asshole.

    No one has told you how your group has to eat dinner, but ridiculous to suggest that everyone has flexible money– that’s obviously not the case– and that if they still want to see anyone outside their house they are an asshole.

  120. I don’t agree with it. That is probably why I don’t go out with a group of friends that much. First off, they always choose a place with at least an one hour wait. Then, it is way expensive for the food and drinks ($30 sandwich? $20 cocktail?). I never really get to choose the place, when I do, some consequence comes up and it gets moved to, surprise, where one of my friends wanted to go!

    I try to go to socialize anyway, splitting an entry with my boyfriend and having a soda instead of a cocktail and then we get hit with a “let’s split the check evenly!” So what would have cost us $20 tip included, now costs us $40. How is that fair? It’s twice at much as we planned!

    The cool thing to do is just get your own check from the get-go. I ask if my food can be on a separate check or if I am with my boyfriend, both of our food can be on one check. Then other people can get whatever they want and we can budget our meal. The wait staff doesn’t have to do math or split up credit card payments. Everyone happy!

  121. “It’s probably not a bad time to remind people that college student-poor isn’t the same as poor-poor, so yeah, let’s make sure to draw a line around that one.”

    What the hell does this mean? It doesn’t make any sense unless you assume college students are subsidized by mommy and daddy. I’m a college student who is responsible for the entirety of my own financial support. My part-time job pays for literally every cent of my expenses. If I worked full-time at my same job and didn’t go to school I would have a lot *more* money. So somehow I’m not really poor now just because I might be less poor after I get my degree?

    I agree with everyone saying splitting the check is the norm and the most fair way to go about it. There isn’t any sharing that goes on with meals with me and my friends because no one orders dessert or appetizers. If you order drinks, you pay for them yourself because (a) it’s not fair to make the under-21s pay for the booze they didn’t drink, and (b) some people just can’t afford to drink 5 cocktails unless they mix the drinks themselves, at home. I am also a vegetarian and whole-heartedly agree that I should not have to subsidize someone else’s meat consumption. But this has literally not been a problem ever – because no one expects everyone to split it all evenly unless you ordered pizza or something.

    Is it potentially a pain in the ass for the server? Sure. But that’s why I always tip at least 20% and round up to the nearest dollar. Also, this request certainly falls within reasonable requests to make of your server, as long as you are polite about it.

    It seems like the behavior Jill designates as “annoying” is based on her class standing and geographical location – and hello, that is not a basis for calling poor people, people with dietary restrictions, teetotalers, and young people “annoying.” Maybe you shouldn’t extrapolate your unique fancy NYC dining experiences into broad social rules for everyone. Even the whole “people who don’t have money should warn me ahead of time that they’re going to be a pain in the ass” reflects this privilege – because it’s the norm for you that people do have money! In my social circle, it is the norm that no one has extra money – and therefore the norm is split checks. It would be the person who wants to split it all “equally” that would be the “annoying” one.

  122. Jill: Which, again, would be totally fine if it actually worked in large groups. What ends up happening is that someone (or multiple people) never end up paying enough, and others end up tossing in a TON of extra money to cover them (the last time I went out with a group and people only paid what they thought they “owed,” I ended up tossing in an extra $40 so that the person whose card it was on didn’t end up over-paying alone)

    Been there. With BigLaw attorneys no less. We went to a reasonably nice restaurant with 15 people and after everyone put in “their share” the table was “short” $130.

    My friends and I use M’s system when we get together of splitting the check and the people who spend more get the tip, but I think that works because no one drinks.

    With family, we use the trading off of paying. In some ways I think that is most fair, because you can choose where you host (at home, or what restaurant) based on what you can afford.

  123. Wasn’t there a thread here a while back about how irritating it is when some privileged journalist discovers a “trend” (ie. a thing their group of friends does that probably no one else does) and then starts wildly extrapolating it to the general populace, or giving people advice based on it?

    That’s kinda the vibe I’m getting from this post, really. Your friends split the bill a particular way (and certainly not the most common way) and it’s a way that would screw over a lot of people if they tried it themselves, but you start assigning a superior morality to your group’s particular little behavior nonetheless. This might be why so many people are getting annoyed — it’s a little self-centered sounding.

  124. Yeah, so in my group of friends you would be the arsehole. If we’re getting Indian and sharing, fine, whatever, but normally we get different food, and the difference can be as large as steak and beer vs. salad and water. Yet we never seem to have a problem splitting the bill. We ask for the bill, discuss round the table who got what, and everyone pays their share. The waitstaff only give us one bill, we work it out ourselves using our phones and heads. And yes, it does work, because everyone rounds up instead of down. Somehow the numerous meals I have with large grouos of friends don’t end in anyone being short changed, fancy that.

    You say that it’s just your preference, but then you go on to generalise about large groups in general that might have a completely different dynamic to yours. You cannot apply your personal group dynamic to everyone everywhere and expect not to get push back.

    And yeah, we don’t tip. Nice US-centrism you have there.

    1. Ah yes, imagine, being so U.S.-centric as to discuss tipping in the U.S. in response to an article about dining out in the U.S., when both the author and myself are from the U.S. and current live and dine in the U.S.! Bad Jill for not considering tipping culture in every other area of the world, and not addressing that adequately in a two-paragraph post!

      In some cultures, people don’t even eat out at restaurants. Nice Western-centrism you have there.

  125. To be honest, it’s really hurtful to hear things like “freaking out over $3,” “won’t round up to the last penny,” “nickel-and-diming,” etc.

    Some us have to be this careful about money, it isn’t about trying to inconvenience the staff and the rest of table. Frankly, it feels humiliating to be the one in a large group having to ask for a split check, precisely because of some of the attitudes expressed in this thread.

    Not caring about an extra dollar here or there IS CLASS PRIVILEGE. Seriously. Many of us don’t have it! And already feel shitty and embarrassed and reluctant to socialize when food is involved! Please don’t add to the chorus telling us our financial choices are annoying, tacky, or obnoxious.

  126. Hmmm….If everyone puts in their “fair share” and you are 10s of dollars short (like, well over $40!), then your friends are assholes who are nickel-and-diming you. If the only way that you can get people to actually pay for most of their meal is to have their friends who ate less subsidize it, then I would say that is jerky, not the other way around. I find when I go out with my friends and we all pay for our meal, often the biggest problem is there is too much money in the middle, like enough for a 40% tip, and no one will fess up to putting in too much money, so everyone gets a dollar back. If it’s a bigger crowd and complicated, I have no problem being the math asshole and figuring out what everyone ate and how much people owe. With a large group it takes maybe 10 minutes max, and I use the calculator on my cell phone. I find people are relieved to be told “you owe $X,” and don’t quibble about paying for what they ordered.

    Also, people aren’t talking about squabbling over 50 cents. I doubt anyone on this thread is upset if their total meal costs were $9.35 and they had to pay $10, or demands their friends split up pennies, etc. However, what may seem trivial to you (oh, it’s just a few dollars), can actually make a difference for someone else’s budget. Having a wealthier person tell you to stop worrying about money, or to “lighten up,” or telling you what is or isn’t a trivial amount, is *really* irritating.

    Again, if your friends don’t mind splitting, great. No one is saying you shouldn’t do what works for you. What people take umbrage to is being told, “you should do it my way, or you shouldn’t go to restaurants because you’re an asshole.” Not everyone is a lawyer in NY who can throw down $40 to cover their friends, and it *is* insensitive to claim that people who aren’t are stingy and uptight jerks. Lots of people plan ahead and budget, and that doesn’t include figuring out what your friends are eating and how much of their meal you can pay for. If you are ordering lots appetizers and splitting them, eating family style, all spending similar amounts, etc., then splitting equally usually makes sense. Most people on a budget however, are not splurging on tons of stuff besides an entree, so the, “it’s too complicated, because we got 50 bottles of wine and 30 appetizers isn’t exactly a situation for anyone who is not wealthy.” To say, it doesn’t work in practice because I am wealthy, order like a person with money, and can’t be bothered to worry about overpaying because it’s not worth my time and effort to sort it out, and then assuming everyone is like you, then yes, you are being classist.

    I think people realize this was a light hearted post and the article was an attempt at humor, but not only was it sexist, it was also super classist, and I think that’s where all the pushback is coming from.

  127. The more homogeneous the financial status of the group eating out is, the more splitting the bill evenly makes sense. The less homogeneous the group’s financial status is, the more itemizing makes sense.

    The bigger the group, the greater the disparity in financial situation is likely to be. Unfortunately, the bigger the group, the more likely it is that one or more people will try to get away with underpaying unless everyone agrees to split the bill evenly.

    This is why dining out in huge groups sucks. My preference is for splitting the bill evenly all the time, but if people genuinely can’t afford to pay for more than what they eat, it’s nice if the rest of the group can float them a few bucks. It also helps if you don’t eat with assholes. (Also, if what you’re ordering costs *way* above the average of what most everybody else is eating, it’s really only polite to say that you’ll cover the entire difference yourself, even if the bill will otherwise be split evenly.)

    I think the etiquette should be quite different in group business lunches; in a business environment, the onus is really on the group organizer (especially if the organizer is a boss) to avoid even the appearance of anyone taking financial advantage of anyone else. Separate checks should be the way to go there, unless someone’s picking up the whole tab.

  128. In nearly every situation where I dined out with friends, we’d divided it up according to who ordered what or one of the wealthier friends would offer to pick up the tab, especially if it’s at an expensive venue(i.e. Greater than $20 per entree in NYC).

    If it is the latter, it is with an implied request that someone else would return the favor at whatever restaurant of their choosing…whether it is at a similar venue or a really cheap dive….didn’t matter. It’s all about the company of friends. Having been the poor-poor kid and scholarship student in college, I understand very well how much shame there is in not being able to keep up with the more socio-economically privileged friends.

    A reason why I make it a point to choose inexpensive places or if it is an expensive place, I or someone with greater socio-economic privilege will pick up the tab on the implied promise of someone else treating us at another time….whenever and whereever it may be.

  129. Jill:
    Ah yes, imagine, being so U.S.-centric as to discuss tipping in the U.S. in response to an article about dining out in the U.S., when both the author and myself are from the U.S. and current live and dine in the U.S.! Bad Jill for not considering tipping culture in every other area of the world, and not addressing that adequately in a two-paragraph post!

    In some cultures, people don’t even eat out at restaurants. Nice Western-centrism you have there.

    Well, nice defensive reaction, but for those of us who aren’t from the US nor share the comfy life situation where every person over 25 is either rich, tactfully sticks with people of similar financial situation, or just stays home in order to not spoil anyone’s evening by ugly Quibbling About Money – could you at least put in a warning above the post so no one accidentally reads through two articles where they get shamed for not having enough privilege, only to realize they shouldn’t have bothered, because post and discussion were only meant for US citizens anyway?

  130. evil fizz: Personally, I detest going out to places which dont allow bill – splitting. I think its lazy of them and highly inconvenient for their clientele who have just spent their time and good money in their establishment.Again, this is why everyone should be forced to work in food service. No server running a full station during the dinner rush should ever be called lazy for not wanting to split a check 8 ways.

    I agree that it’s not lazy on the part of the server to find it annoying, but I think that there are certainly places where it’s laziness on the part of the owners/managers for not providing the ability or for not caring about their customer’s wishes.

    Part of working public service is doing things that we might find annoying. I’ve worked in various sorts of customer service for over 15 years. I spent years in food service before going into retail, and now I work in the public sector, and there are *always* things that are annoying about it. But the fact is, I’m getting paid to wait on people or to help them or to provide them some service. That’s the nature of the job. That doesn’t give people the right to *abuse* me, but I don’t see how asking for the bill split, or how trying to pay only what they actually owe, is abusive. And, in the long run, I think that expecting people with limited income to subsidize other people’s food and drink is a lot more unjust than expecting the server to split the check or run a few extra cards.

    Even having worked in food service, I still prefer to have the bill split for exactly the reasons others have said. I love going out with my friends, but going out is a treat for me. I can’t necessarily afford to go out, get a pre-dinner cocktail, a plate of potato skins, an expensive dinner, and 4 more cocktails as the night goes on, and I can’t afford to subsidize other people’s dining habits who do. It’s great for people who *can* afford to do that, but I can’t. It’s not because I’m cheap or nickle and diming people, it’s because I have to save my money and be very aware of how I’m spending it, and treat dining out as a special thing. I don’t expect people with more money than me to buy me dinner and drinks, so why should I be expected to cover parts of their meals just because I have to be careful not to overspend?

    I think that some of this falls onto the shoulders of the owners and managers who don’t necessarily provide their staff with the coverage they need. There will be times when you end up with shortages and your staff have to work extra hard to make up for it, but I’ve certainly worked in my share of places where proper coverage wasn’t provided because they just didn’t feel like paying for the extra bodies, and that’s not the customer/patron’s fault.

  131. Most of the time when I eat at a restaurant, it’s by gift card (fairly successful bar-trivia team), which presents kind of the opposite end of the problem: how to split the gift card when the people who won it may not be exactly the same group as the people who are using it. We generally split it evenly between the people who are there (easier to keep track of), and everybody figures out their share of the bill plus tax plus tip and deducts their share of the gift card from it. We’ve never had a problem with the total being short; nobody seems to have any difficulty with totting up their bill and calculating a tip (twenty percent? One fifth. If you’re lucky enough to have a meal tax of five percent, the whole exercise is trivial).
    The major fault appears to be with restaurants who haven’t figured out how to make separate checks painless for both their servers and their customers. Surely there’s a way to get the check to print with individual-order subtotals and tax? If there isn’t already, surely it wouldn’t be that difficult to devise?

  132. Surely there’s a way to get the check to print with individual-order subtotals and tax? If there isn’t already, surely it wouldn’t be that difficult to devise?

    There are certainly restaurants that have systems like you’re describing, but you need to have relatively modern equipment to do so, and you need to pay for the right system. The last time I went out with co-workers, we went to a place that does this–you get a large bill with the total amount, but broken down by the seats, so that the person who ordered a cheeseburger and two drinks can see exactly how much, including tax, they owe.

  133. I agree that it’s not lazy on the part of the server to find it annoying, but I think that there are certainly places where it’s laziness on the part of the owners/managers for not providing the ability or for not caring about their customer’s wishes.

    As mentioned, not all establishments have the funding to install Micros or some equivalent. It’s certainly becoming more standard, but I started waiting tables about 10 years ago, and it was still largely confined to chain restaurants and larger establishments. So no, lazy is not the right word here.

  134. I’m pretty sure that I was actually one of the people who pointed that out.

    I didn’t say it was always laziness, I said that it was laziness in *some* cases. Having worked in places where it was purely an issue of laziness, I think that lazy was exactly the right word.

  135. What I still don’t see is how you need special equipment in order to treat customers as seperate persons instead of as a group?
    If I go out and eat alone this is not a problem in any way, whichever system is used.
    What is there that I’m not understanding?

  136. kiturak:
    What I still don’t see is how you need special equipment in order to treat customers as seperate persons instead of as a group?
    If I go out and eat alone this is not a problem in any way, whichever system is used.
    What is there that I’m not understanding?

    When you are with a group your stuff has to be coordinated with all the other people at your table and by a single person on the wait staff. When you eat by yourself the waitstaff can delay or stagger your order into a flow system so that each table get the required attention. Greeting/Drinks. Drinks/Food Order. Service. Post Service Check. Periodic Bus/Drink Refills. All of these things have to be coordinated so that people get served in a timely manner.

    But if you are in a large group, I can’t pick up two or three of your orders and then check on other tables. Instead I spend at least 15 minutes putting together the drink orders for one table. Scrambling to get that done while also scrambling to get to my other customers who are now pissed because I left them sitting there for 15 minutes. Then repeat for each point in service. If at the end of that, when operating at a dead run for over an hour you want me to split up the check which takes minimum 15/20 minutes, then yeah, I’m going to think you’re being an ass.

    Also separate tickets from the beginning isn’t a great solution either, because that means separate tickets to the kitchen, so your food isn’t going to come out at the same time.

  137. @ Kristen J.’s Husband: Thank you for explaining.

    Where I’m from (Germany), it’s a completely normal thing to do, paying separately – to my knowledge. Those of my friends with work experience as waiter_waitress I checked with said that some big groups tend to pay together more often than not (families, groups of people working together), some separately more often than not (groups of friends going out together). It takes time and a pencil to do the separate checks, and they use(d) to consider it tricky, but par for the course.
    (In Munich pubs, they often mark all you had on the little paper thingy you put your glass on, and add it up when you leave.)

    Apart from that, I would be thankful if people finally stopped

    – calling other people asses/ pain in the ass/ boring/ etc. for something that has been clearly established by a lot of people here to be a classism problem, or habits that can well be important to people with disabilities/ eating disorders (“not eating well”)

    – lightly proposing everyone should work as a waiter_waitress in their lives. People are forced to work in jobs they don’t like to survive enough as it is, and people do have lots of jobs that can be equally or less rewarding, socially and financially, than working in a restaurant.

  138. Last time I went out to eat for a friend’s birthday (at a place I didn’t and wouldn’t have picked, based on expense). There were six of us. I had no entree, a main, and two cheap beers. My part of the bill was exactly $32.

    When it came time to pay, one dude (who, like everyone else, had had two or three glasses of expensive wine, and an entree in addition to his main) was like, “Okay, that’s $60 per person!”

    LOL WHUT? Um no. I was sitting there, literally nursing a glass of beer while everyone else ate their entree. Not paying for it.

    And when you break it down, everyone else paying the extra $5-6 they should be paying, it really is nothing to them.

    But expecting me to pay nearly twice as much as what I actually consumed? That’s the difference between whether I can actually afford to buy groceries for the week.

    There choice is clear.

    And I’m not going to stay home and miss out on a close friend’s birthday dinner, because I can’t afford to pay an extra $28 in imaginary food, to make someone else’s life easier.

    So the only option I have in this situation is to say, “This is what I had, and this is what I’m paying” and then subtract myself from the situation, and if everyone else at the table still wants to split up the remainder, then that’s their prerogative. Or if they then want to itemise for themselves, that’s their prerogative too.

    And it’s possible to do all of that without fucking over either the server or me.

  140. is it that hard for people to do math

    you know what you ordered, you know your total

    move the decimal point one place to the left and multiply by 3

    that gives a 20% tip and 10% tax

    done. If you want to then be more picky move the decimal place over one more point and multiply that number by the difference between the tax rate and ten. Then subtract that amount from your total that you were going to pay.

    Now you are really done and actually pay an accurate tax + tip amount.

    Takes like 30 seconds, maybe a minute. And even for the mathematically challenged everyone has tax and tip calculators on their phones these days.

    The bill will add up unless someone is being intentionally cheap or a dumbass

  141. Anon,

    That assumes people “know” what they ordered. In my experience, in large groups (annoying) people order appetizers or wine for the table and then when someone says, “but what about the appetizers,” no one wants to cough up because they just had a “bite” or they didn’t REALLY want it. Its freaking annoying.

  142. You know is really ticking me off on this thread? People don’t seem to give a shit about dumping additional work on their waiters/resses. I mean, do people even realize that service staff live well below the poverty line? Let’s give this some fucking context okay. When M was a waiter he earned less than $10,000 per year. How many people on this thread have tried to live on less than $10,000 a year? In freaking Hawaii.

    These service industry jobs are almost by definition exploitative. It is physically demanding, pays well below a living wage, usually provide insufficient hours, and no benefits. And you want to add to their already shitty, exploitative jobs because its too difficult to negotiate payment amongst yourselves?

  143. Whoever said that splitting checks for people leads to higher tips- I have the completely opposite experience. It usually leads to smaller tips for me. Groups who don’t ask for separate checks or groups who ask for 2 separate ones (one for each couple) leave the best tips. 15 people who ask for 15 different checks almost always leave less than 18-20%.

    When I worked at a less upscale place than I do now, groups who asked for more than 8 checks often left less than the total. It was to the point that the manager had to stand there and count it out before everyone left, or we got screwed.

    Typically when I have a table that shares appetizers, it makes no sense to split the bill. I can’t split an appetizer onto two separate checks. People who would haggle (“I only ate one of the oysters, you had two”) look tacky, and probably shouldn’t be eating out. Fortunately this is rare where I work now. Eating out is a luxury, and even though I wait tables, I can’t always afford to eat out. If $3 is going to make or break me, I’m not going to go out to eat, unless a friend offers to cover me.

  144. Anyone who would call a server lazy obviously hasn’t waited tables themselves. I’ve been on my feet ALL DAY, and didn’t even break $100 tonight. Servers never know how much they’re going to make on any given day- it could be slow, you could get a lot of bad tippers, etc. It’s hard work. I thank God for the tables I have that make it all worth it. When a table leaves me a nice tip, and compliments me to the owner it makes my day. The gentlemen who compliment me on my smile in a not creepy way also make my day. It’s nice to feel appreciated, and in a position like this, it doesn’t happen often. Also, like someone pointed out- no benefits. No matter how many hours you work.

  145. It is physically demanding, pays well below a living wage, usually provide insufficient hours, and no benefits.

    That’s not the customers’ fault, though. Depending on the situation I often have cash, or can get cash from my friends if I put something on my card, or I can owe someone and pay them back later, and then we don’t have to split the check… but that’s not always possible. And certainly “just suck it up if you have to overpay” is not a solution. (Also, asking to split the check does require the waiter to do more work, but it doesn’t affect any of the factors you list. Refraining from splitting the check will not automatically make waiting tables a non-shitty job.)

  146. Kristen J.:
    How many people on this thread have tried to live on less than $10,000 a year?In freaking Hawaii.

    I do, for more than 10 years now. A lot of my friends do. In freakin Europe.
    As for the shitty job, I, and a lot of others, do and/or have done jobs exactly as shitty or worse. Sometimes people eating out earn exactly as much as the people who serve there, and sometimes people who work in restaurants go out themselves.

    Whenever we get a check for the whole table and it’s possible to pay by Tea’s method, I do it. People mostly pay cash here (I can’t remember ever paying by card in a restaurant), so it’s usually no problem. If there’s one person who’s paying by card, we would give them the amount we owe and they would then pay the whole. I see that’s not possible if everyone pays by card.

    Still,

    roymacIII
    But the fact is, I’m getting paid to wait on people or to help them or to provide them some service. That’s the nature of the job. That doesn’t give people the right to *abuse* me, but I don’t see how asking for the bill split, or how trying to pay only what they actually owe, is abusive. And, in the long run, I think that expecting people with limited income to subsidize other people’s food and drink is a lot more unjust than expecting the server to split the check or run a few extra cards.

  147. Yeah, actually it does. Because splitting your check diverts service from other tables. Slow service means significantly lower tips. Wait staff doesn’t groan because a large party is simply more work, they groan because they know they probably just had all their tips for that hour cut in half.

    That money may not mean much to you, but for others it means the difference between eating and not eating.

  148. I think what we’ve established, actually, is:

    1. Some people are assholes because when they go out to eat, they want the other people at their table to pay for part of the food or drinks they ordered and get narked when those people declare themselves unwilling or unable to do so.

    2. Some people are assholes because they order stuff for the whole table without first establishing that everyone at the table is OK with splitting the check evenly (or at least splitting that part of the check evenly).

    3. Some people are assholes because they don’t tip their waitron appropriately. (Some people traveling in North America for the first time are not assholes but simply have no idea that 20% tips are an essential part of the restaurant staff’s salary.)

    4. Some people are assholes because instead of sitting there with the menu and a calculator and figuring out what everyone’s share of the check comes to, they put extra work on their server and complain that s/he’s lazy.

    5. Some people are assholes because instead of leaving a tip, they leave a tract disguised as a $20 bill.

    In conclusion: some people are assholes.

  149. That money may not mean much to you, but for others it means the difference between eating and not eating.

    …Didn’t the thread make it abundantly clear that this is sometimes the case for people eating at the restaurant as well? The fact that other people tip like assholes doesn’t mean there’s something horrible about only paying for the food you order.

  150. Bagelsan,

    It does not cost the table anything to figure out the check themselves. It does cost the service staff.

  151. Jill: I would just say so and not go, or suggest somewhere cheaper, or cook at home with friends.

    I’ve suggested other places to people who pitched a fit about not being able to eat at a steakhouse. So to keep the peace I go to a place where all I can get is maybe a side salad and some teeny appetizer. I’m already sacrificing being able to have a satisfying dinner, I’m not also going to pay extra.

    And what about the assyness of being the person who knows their friend is a vegetarian and yet forces them to constantly eat at places that don’t cater to their needs? No one ever calls them out on that.

    It’s really easy to say “just cook at home!” “Suggest somewhere else!” “Get over it!” But that’s not always possible. A few bucks per dinner adds up over time, sometimes it’s easier to go where your friends all want to save from bickering, and you don’t always feel like cooking and cleaning up after. And “just don’t go”? REALLY? Now being a vegetarian means I have to segregate myself and stay home? And I’M an ass?

    If you’re all so concerned about the waitstaff, pay cash instead of handing them 10 cards. Or put it on one card and reimburse the cardholder with cash. That doesn’t give the server any extra work and it’s actually (gasp) fair to everyone at the table.

    1. And what about the assyness of being the person who knows their friend is a vegetarian and yet forces them to constantly eat at places that don’t cater to their needs? No one ever calls them out on that.

      I actually don’t have much sympathy there. I was a vegetarian for 10 years — its almost always possible to find something (or many things) you can eat at just about any restaurant. The key is to not be demanding and sanctimonious — realize that your dietary restrictions are yours, and if you’re taking tons of options off the table, it’s up to you to adjust, not everyone else to cater to you.

  152. Kristen J.: You know is really ticking me off on this thread? People don’t seem to give a shit about dumping additional work on their waiters/resses. I mean, do people even realize that service staff live well below the poverty line? Let’s give this some fucking context okay. When M was a waiter he earned less than $10,000 per year. How many people on this thread have tried to live on less than $10,000 a year? In freaking Hawaii.These service industry jobs are almost by definition exploitative. It is physically demanding, pays well below a living wage, usually provide insufficient hours, and no benefits. And you want to add to their already shitty, exploitative jobs because its too difficult to negotiate payment amongst yourselves?

    I. dont. get. it.

    My group ,and I tell you it is never less than 8 unless me and the hubster are dining with another couple, asks UPFRONT for seperate checks if thats not ok or possible nobodyhas a problem remembering what they did or did not order. I guess its because we’ve been doing it for so long and so often but I dont get it. Why is this so complicated? We never underpaid or left less than a 20% tip because we’re a large group. The combined bill is almost always well over 300 bucks so we’re talking a server making at minimum 60 bucks off our group in tips (and thats if the waitperson was a borderline ass) and we never stay for more than 2 hours. When we have stayed longer, its a place with a bar and the tab and tip gets ridiculous. Not because everyone has money to blow but because the group is so big.

  153. It also costs the service people to clear the dishes and clean the table, all of which the guests could do, too, but it’s still considered an acceptable part of their job. I think there is a bit of a disagreement about what tasks are reasonably included in a server’s job; you think splitting a check is not one, and I/various people upthread think it is.

  154. @Azalea,

    Tips at restaurants with bars are shared with all the other servers. Bartenders take a larger cut than servers. So your $60 likely split 3 or 4 ways, depending on who is involved in the service (often managers take a third of tips off the top). Say a generous split, that $60 is $15 per two hours. Then take out social security, local taxes, add in the sub-minimum wage and your server gets about $10 per hour…which might be livable except restaurants often only hire part-time employees to avoid providing benefits…so that $10 has to cover a person even when they only get to work 20 hours per week.

    Now do you get it? Your server will probably split the check for your be cause ze needs the tip and you’re already on hir service, but that doesn’t mean they want to, that it isn’t a pain in the ass, or that you shouldn’t sort it out yourselves.

    FYI, I don’t care how you work it out…I just don’t think the solution is piling more stuff on your server.

  155. @Bagelsan,

    Well, if the manager doesn’t include splitting checks in the service, if ze doesn’t set up the service so that there is time for the server to split up the checks…then at that restaurant it is not the servers job.

  156. The key is to not be demanding and sanctimonious

    I’m sure everyone on this thread would agree to that. Of course it applies in all directions: non-vegetarians shouldn’t be demanding and sanctimonious about vegetarians who want to eat somewhere they get to choose their meal, either.

    And let’s also consider that it’s unfriendly and unkind to be demanding and sanctimonious about people who prefer each to pay their own share of the meal, and not to end up paying for other people’s food and drink they hadn’t budgeted for and can’t afford.

  157. I just can’t believe it took Jill 174 comments to use “sanctimonious.”

    Look, vegetarians, it’s simple. You pay more, you meekly eat your side salad and you shut up about it. Just be happy you actually have friends.

  158. its almost always possible to find something (or many things) you can eat at just about any restaurant.

    This is flat out not true. I’ve been to multiple restaurants where even the salads had meat. And I didn’t care about small amounts of cross-contamination, but if I did, going to a place that at least recognizes meatlessness as option would have felt more secure.

  159. When the check is split evenly, there’s the non-drinker tax, and the vegetarian tax, but also the light-eater tax. Which (I’m a little surprised nobody else has pointed out) is often equivalent to an eating-while-female tax.

    I’m a fairly average-sized man, but I eat way more than most women seem to. It doesn’t seem fair to split checks evenly when the men are likely to have eaten about twice as much as the women.

    Maybe that’s just my experience. But I do see that a lot.

  160. @ Kristen J,

    I understand wait staff isn’t paid a boatload of money and that they often times have to or just DO share their tips. That isn’t my fault. I do my part by patronizing their place of employment and then tipping ABOVE the 20% that is recommended for GREAT service. My part is more than done.

    Waitstaff for my group pretty much does 3 things, greet us, bring our drinks, bring our food. When we’re done we stack the plates ourselves all that needs to be done is taking the plates back to the kitchen and have the buspeople wipe the table down. They are getting 60 bucks (again that was minimum when the whole group is there of 19 people it is far more than that) to pretty much ignore us because we are so busy, eating and enjoying each other’s company that we dont bother the waitstaff. But again, we dine out weekly, we pick a restaurant in advance we know these places and are regulars at most of them so we already know what we want before we’re even seated. I dont get it because we always work the math out ourselves. And how does the waiter know who ordered what if they arent itemizing everything as you order it anyway? Do they remember the faces with each order per table and every subsequent drink or add on thereafter? That seems like far more work than just creating seperate checks from jump.

  161. Separate checks = separate tickets = not getting your food at the same time. People tend to get rather pissy when half the table is served and the other half has to wait 15 minutes.

    But sure…let’s ignore our personal and additional contributions to exploitative labor. You know we should also not clear our tables at delis or place things back on the shelves where we found them at stores. Why hang things up when you try on clothing? And why not litter? Someone with low wages and few alternatives will come by and fix all those little things in life that cause us the slightest inconvenience.

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