In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Sorry, Feministe, I am leaving you*

Jill

I am also leaving New York, because I have found true love, and it’s with this guy. Money quote:

The man told officers Amundson’s bizarre behavior continued. Amundson lay on his side and lifted one leg in the air, exposing himself, the man told police.

“(He) stated that he wished that he could get the image out of his head and that he was very disturbed by Amundson’s actions,” the Seattle detective told the court. “(He) stated that he … never would want his children to see something like that.”

That’s my boyfriend.

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*Kidding, of course. I would never leave you. Unless James Amundson calls me.

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40 thoughts on Sorry, Feministe, I am leaving you*

  1. I’m wondering why the witness circled the block three times.

    “Oh, that’s horrible! I never want to see that again! Let’s circle the block and see if it’s still happening. Oh no, it’s still happening! I’ll never get that image out of my mind! Let’s circle the block one more time, just to see if it’s still happening. Oh madre de dios, it’s still happening! Okay, now I’ll call the cops.”

  4. Funny thing, I was looking at the price of apartments in that neighborhood the other day. They were quite cheap. Now I’m wondering if that was for a reason…

  8. Ahahahaha…oh, Seattle. I love you. And Zoe– my friend used to live there, and it’s an excellent neighborhood! Green Lake is so much fun to wander around in the summer and Chocolati is RIGHT THERE.

    Actually, if I lived there, I would probably lose all my money to Chocolati. Perhaps a reason not to live there.

  9. Quit playing games with my feminist, NYC-livin’ heart, Jill.

    It can’t take a joke on a snowy, depressing Monday. SHEEESH!

  11. aww, this guy seems like he’s got some mental health issues he’s dealing with. He committed a crime, but let’s play nice.

  13. I dunno Spencer. I’ve seen people without mental health issues do much more embarrassing things while drunk.

    Maybe I should write a memoir.

  14. As a general rule, try to dance naked in the comfort of your own home. It’s warmer, and there’s less of a chance the cops will get involved. And if they do, I think there’s recent case law that says you can be as naked as you damn well please, even with the curtains open, if you’re inside. (Not sure if it extends to sexual behavior, so stick to dancing.)

  16. Well thank God for drunk people then! As someone who has a mental illness, I honestly don’t know how I’m allowed out in public given how embarrassing my behavior is. Luckily, there are drunk people who do stupid shit like dance in public naked from the waist down that help put some of MY behavior in perspective: REALLY crazy shit, like buying groceries, getting an education, waiting for the bus, having conversations with friends, calling my mom to check in on the family, listening to music…

  17. ya, maybe I’m a concern troll. I just feel like it’s fun to make fun of people for being mean, but it’s mean to make fun of people who can’t understand.

  18. He couldn’t get the image out of his head and he didn’t want his children to see it, but he circled the block three times? I live in Seattle, and when I see a stranger’s naked ass, I keep driving…away.

  19. “(He) stated that he wished that he could get the image out of his head and that he was very disturbed by Amundson’s actions,” the Seattle detective told the court. “(He) stated that he … never would want his children to see something like that.”

    Poor sensitive guy. He should try being a woman and riding the subway or the bus. Hell, he should try reading Hollaback. Imagine! Having to see naked men when you’re just going along, minding your own business.

  20. Clearly the man has issues.

    This being his third offense, it would seem he engages in behavior that is hurtful to himself (as well as others).

    I have no idea if this is about addiction to alcohol, or a poor impulse control, but I sure doubt that convicting him for a felony will solve the problem.

  22. Spencer: ya, maybe I’m a concern troll.

    “Concern troll” is a lot nicer than “someone who has internalized and spewed ableism on the internet.” The article says he was blackout drunk. Every time you see someone displaying rude or embarrassing behavior and you say, “Well, maybe they have mental health problems!”, you make it harder for those of us who actually do. It’s because of your bullshit “concern trolling” that people think I’m suddenly going to drop trou or shoot up a political rally – because I just can’t help it. It was ableist.

  23. Pretty Amiable, I see what you mean about assuming that poor behavior equals mental illness. People did (and are doing) the same thing about Jared Lee Loughner. On the other hand, I am concerned when we react to certain kinds of bad behavior by blaming or mocking, because it often seems cruel. This man’s behavior, for example, seems like it might not be the same as the guys on Hollaback, but rather an example of some sort of problem (addiction, perhaps, if he was drunk). Maybe we could just say that until or unless we know why this person behaved in this way, we should refrain from judgment (obviously this doesn’t apply to violent or cruel behavior – this guy just violates social norms).

  24. aww, this guy seems like he’s got some mental health issues he’s dealing with. He committed a crime, but let’s play nice.

    Yeah, when I first read the article I thought about not posting it for that reason. But then I read it again and it pretty much just sounds like the dude was wasted.

  26. Then Carolyn, I would argue that the appropriate response – the concern trolling, non-ableist response – is “We don’t know what’s going on in his life. Maybe we shouldn’t laugh that he’s throwing his dick to the wind.” I’m not saying this guy is 100% healthy (because I don’t know him and being aware of one incident in this guy’s life definitely doesn’t qualify me to diagnose him), but I am saying that unless you know something about him and his diagnoses, playing internet shrink is inappropriate. Maybe it’s addiction? Odds are he was just shit-faced. (No seriously – go find the odds that someone will do stupid shit while drunk and compare them to the odds that someone has a disorder that results in bottomless public dancing). I have friends who have whipped it out in public to pee, gotten into barroom brawls, so on and so forth. They’re not addicted (AFAIK).

    You know what else could have happened? Maybe his buds saw him trashed, realized he couldn’t consent to anything rationally, and told him this was a good idea. Why are we assuming mental illness and addiction over this scenario?

    Even if the thought crosses your mind that this guy was having a shitty day and could only cure his shitty day blues by dick-waving in public, the fact that a dude circled around three times before calling the cops whilst horrified is objectively hilarious. Unless someone wants to step in and point out that he might have OCD so he HAD to circle three times.

    So, to reiterate: Jesus Christ.

  28. PrettyAmiable: Well thank God for drunk people then! As someone who has a mental illness, I honestly don’t know how I’m allowed out in public given how embarrassing my behavior is. Luckily, there are drunk people who do stupid shit like dance in public naked from the waist down that help put some of MY behavior in perspective: REALLY crazy shit, like buying groceries, getting an education, waiting for the bus, having conversations with friends, calling my mom to check in on the family, listening to music…  

    QFT. The tendency for people to reach for “Ze must be mentally ill!” to explain behavior that they don’t understand or approve of is getting way beyond tired.

  32. You know what’s funny? The second people said, “What? Don’t laugh at the poor mentally ill folk despite the fact that I can’t possibly know whether they’re mentally ill!” I thought of David in that one thread where he said Feministe commenters don’t tolerate bigotry against people with mental health issues (in addition to women and trans* people). Religious bigotry was apparently the only one he rubber stamped as being tolerated by commenters, if I recall.

    I knew you would show up and piss me off on this thread. To your comment, What Jill said, @ 30. Also, feel free to review my comment @26. You are not a shrink, and odds are you don’t know the guy. You aren’t qualified to judge whether he’s an alcoholic based on some random news item.

  33. Unless someone wants to step in and point out that he might have OCD so he HAD to circle three times.

    I lol’d.

    My view is that in general, people do weird shit while drunk. People who don’t have mental illnesses do weird shit while drunk. People who do have mental illnesses do weird shit while drunk. It’s common knowledge that person + lots of alcohol can result in some weird shit.

  34. You know, when I first read the post, I did do the “oh god this sounds suspiciously like mocking of the non-NT” because I didn’t really understand the context and what the man had done. But when I read the article, I went “oh, right, not so much” – because this sort of behaviour can be perfectly explained via “guy is drunk”. Not all strange behaviours are a sign of non-NTness! Furthermore, men exposing themselves to strangers can actually be a sexist and misogynist act, yeah? and done in a threatening manner and so on? Not saying this was the case here, but as a result the “but what if he’s mentally ill?” reminds me of other cases where when people try to call out sexist/threatening/etc. behaviour by men it gets derailed via “but what if he’s not NT?” (street harrassment and autism, I could *cry*.)

  35. Not all strange behaviours are a sign of non-NTness! Furthermore, men exposing themselves to strangers can actually be a sexist and misogynist act, yeah? and done in a threatening manner and so on? Not saying this was the case here, but as a result the “but what if he’s mentally ill?” reminds me of other cases where when people try to call out sexist/threatening/etc. behaviour by men it gets derailed via “but what if he’s not NT?” (street harrassment and autism, I could *cry*.) Kaz

    THIS. And to second what PA said: JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

  36. In semi-related news, did everyone see that Jessica Valenti is leaving Feministing? Jill, you might be a soothsayer. (I like soothsayer better than psychic. It’s vintage.)

  37. PrettyAmiable:
    You know what’s funny? The second people said, “What? Don’t laugh at the poor mentally ill folk despite the fact that I can’t possibly know whether they’re mentally ill!” I thought of David in that one thread where he said Feministe commenters don’t tolerate bigotry against people with mental health issues (in addition to women and trans* people). Religious bigotry was apparently the only one he rubber stamped as being tolerated by commenters, if I recall.
    I knew you would show up and piss me off on this thread. To your comment, What Jill said, @ 30. Also, feel free to review my comment @26. You are not a shrink, and odds are you don’t know the guy. You aren’t qualified to judge whether he’s an alcoholic based on some random news item.  

    I’m not sure if I’ve ever said that specifically but even if I did I’d have to amend that opinion. I think that the kind of bigotry that exists here usually manifests itself in a minority of individuals. The community as a whole seems pretty good to the point that at least one person will call someone else out on their crap. I might change my opinion in the future, but there it is for now.

    Regarding drunkenness – I’m not a shrink. It is also impossible for me to say that the man in question is an alcoholic. But, I like to at least entertain multiple explanations for different events. The man could have been a pantless-dancing wonder with a casual relationship to booze, or a stone-cold alcoholic who is too shitfaced and blacked out to care or know what he’s doing. In one reality, we’re making fun of a dude for being a gross exhibitionist, in another we’re making fun of him for his addiction.

    Though I will concede to you that it’s pretty funny the other person circled back 3 times to check.

  38. So isn’t the answer “don’t laugh” instead of “play amateur shrink where you get to imply that this person has an addiction?”

    I’m generally bored of the idea that any time someone makes an ass of themselves, the very reasonable endpoint seems to be something that requires years of training, an interview with the person concerned, and a DSM-IV for verification. Or you know. Nonsense ableist bullshit.

  39. This is just to add support to what PrettyAmiable is saying, and to say thank you for taking the time to explain what’s wrong with that tactic.

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