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On having been a teenage writer

As Cara kindly mentioned, I had a birthday in November. It was my twentieth. So, in making a break with my teen years, I want to talk about what this means socially, and particularly as regards my writing work. I’ve been struggling with this post since October, and I feel a bit self-indulgent doing this. But I think it’s important to address, especially in deconstructing some attitudes about what teenagers are capable of, and what teenage writing looks like.

For my entire life, I’ve been running up against some really trying attitudes regarding my writing – and what I believe, and who I am – based on my age. That’s regarding my academic work, my creative work, and my social justice work, though, curiously, not the youth issues column I used to write for the local paper! I spent a fair portion of my schooling years being accused of plagiarism in my stories and poetry, accusations people could never back up, because they weren’t true. They were purely based on the idea that young people couldn’t write in the ways I was clearly writing. A total lack of evidence, authority over the accused and a warped social attitude make for a heady mix.

It made me feel constantly anxious about cheating even though I never did cheat. It made me feel insecure about not living up to newly heightened expectations, too. (Even as I’m writing this, I’m worrying about whether my writing is sophisticated enough for those readers who are stuck on the idea of youthful incompetence – in spite of despising the “wise beyond her years” trope I’ll be thrust into if I do achieve it, and in spite of my conviction that a sophisticated writing ideal has some rather culturally-specific and classist assumptions.) But even worse, my experiences made me feel like the writing soul in me wasn’t quite legitimate, like how I express my humanity isn’t quite real.

But I’m not ten years old anymore. It’s been getting better as time goes on, particularly in offline modes where I am finally being treated like I might know what I’m talking about, might have written something myself, might have experiences and feelings in me. Less of the “you’ll know better when you get older” and such, if you know what I mean. The continuance of these experiences online in particular was therefore quite a shock.

Recently, I mentioned how my race gets constructed by Feministe commenters. I’ve spent the time I’ve been writing here being constantly misracialised, usually as white. This has had some pretty nasty effects on me as a non-white person with light colouring, effects you will never understand unless you’ve been in the same situation, if you’ve been living the kind of life I’m living. It is a horrific experience, and one I really wasn’t expecting to have while writing in a social justice space.

What has that got to do with age? Well, there’s a pretty enormous contrast with how my age gets constructed by readers. My youth has been brought up a lot, and is, unlike my racial identity, inevitably remembered. My age has been used to shut me down. In comments on this, my own blog. In emails. In threads on other websites. It has even been brought up in irrelevant contexts in ways the speaker thought supportive, as in “this is so good for someone so young”.

So: one part of who I am, my race, gets pushed aside, I guess in part because there is a view of Feministe as a white blog. On that last, white viewpoints do dominate here, and that’s important to acknowledge, but erasing non-white people in the course of acknowledging that is hugely messed up and, as I hardly need point out, racist. I think it’s partly also because we do seem to have a majority white readership, and privileged people tend to expect to encounter people and viewpoints matching their own. But another part of who I am, my age, has often been utilised against me. That dynamic, that contrast, has been at the forefront of my mind for months now.

Bits of me get constructed as is convenient where people don’t want their worldviews challenged; that’s true for anyone marginalised in a particular instance. It is hard going trying to exist in the world, and it is harder being erased and being reconstructed to other people’s satisfaction in a space that ought to be sustaining. Exposing myself to this weaponisation of who I am is against my better judgment, but writing and doing my best to show that I exist has kept me going through the ridiculous days and nights of trying to speak.

Hopefully, now I’ve passed the arbitrary birthday that will mean I will be granted more respect. And I hope I never forget to support those who haven’t, and who still are facing the kind of rubbish I have been. As for race stuff, well, I can only keep speaking, and can only hope that people remember that white people aren’t the only people, and stop jumping to binarised notions of race otherwise.

I never grew used to the contempt and condescension I got as a girl and in my beginning womanhood. I never took it as a given that I ought to look cute and shut up. I never accepted that my life experience was less worthy for my life being shorter than those of some, or my opinions worth less the hearing. (There’s a quote from Jane Eyre I like: ‘I don’t think, sir, you have a right to command me merely because you are older than I, or because you have seen more of the world than I have; your claim to superiority depends on the use you have made of your time and experience.’) I never submitted to the idea that I was less of a person because I was a young one.

I’ll be glad to never hear that I write ‘really well… for a teenager’ ever again for as long as I live. That’s a pretty sad way to be leaving my teen years, however. Regardless, I’m looking forward to seeing what twenty feels like. I never got to feel like a proper teenager for fear of being viewed with contempt, and I never felt I could act in “teenagerish” ways because that would have been confirming the worst. Hopefully I can come to feel more free to be myself, a self who is sometimes clever, sometimes silly, always passionate, and far more invested in looking after myself and my idea of myself, no matter what anyone else thinks. I think I can thusly harness the idea of teenage rebellion to nurture myself in years to come, even if I never played it out in my teen years.

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46 thoughts on On having been a teenage writer

  1. Chally, I had similar experiences as a teen, and unfortunately I found they continued through my twenties. I feel this is an insidious form our youth-obsessed culture can take: if one can maintain the view that adolescence is a mere extension of childhood, and also manage to believe that adolescence continues until one is approximately 30, then no one needs to confront the fact of their own age or their own mortality.

    I am now comfortably into my 30s, and have only heard once in the past year that I am “too young” to hold some outlook or another. I hope you find that your 20s are old enough to get you past that barrier, and do not have another decade of dismissive comments ahead. Happy birthday, and best of luck to you. I look forward to reading your public works for decades to come.

  2. Thanks, folks!

    Thanks very much, Lou. I’m just thinking how this dismissal fits in to the preoccuption with and the glorification of youth, and that’s a point I will have to hold onto.

    Marksman2010, I was first published when I was four (in a tiny contribution to a book, which was quite exciting) :).

  3. Happy Birthday and good article Chally.

    I think there are many serious systems of oppression and exploitation that need and aught to be addressed, and often are within radical communities, but youth rights still get overlooked.

    I know there are youth advocacy groups and programs aimed at teens and children, but I have yet to find any strong movement or group serious about Youth liberation. By liberation, I mean promoting autonomy and self determination not only for people of color, women, men, working class and so forth of an ADULT age, but of YOUTHFUL ages as well.

    Obviously, people in positions of experience need to be careful, a parent isn’t going to let a 4 year decide what city they want to live in or what street they want to play in (none). But I don’t see any good reason why a 12 year old can’t start participating in politics or buying birth control (without parent’s permission) or entering the job force (if thats his/her decision, I support education but this is just an example).

    Its harmful to restrict youths from voting until 18. Its harmful to throw a 15 year old in jail for pornography because she took a picture of herself naked. Its harmful to push someone through compulsory education via grade levels rather than levels determined by aptitude in particular courses.

    I remember feeling incredibly indignant and angry when people made comments to me concerning my political or social writings and stances because I was young. And sadly, as other commenters have pointed out, those reactions haven’t really changed just because I’m in my early 20’s. Its better but not great.

    One of the best first steps we can take towards empowering youths, is too stop telling them “it will getter better when your older”.

    nope.

  4. Condescension is often more a sign of the speaker’s feelings of insecurity than it is of your inexperience, gender, race, etc. I know when I hear something condescending come out of my mouth (yeah, I can be an ass) its because I’m feeling threatened. So, I don’t think the condescension is going anywhere.

    A very wise woman once told me that your 50s are the prime of your life, not because people take you more seriously, but because you don’t give a shit anymore. Personally, that’s what I’m working towards.

  5. A thought. I never once remembered your age unless you brought it up. Exactly the same as with your race (which I realise is a bad habit of mine) – but, are they equivalent problems? By which I mean, would you say that mentally erasing your age is to ageism as mentally erasing your race is to racism? Or are there different relationships with erasure in the two areas of potential marginalisation? I would imagine there are, but since the closest I get to non-white is Jewish ancestry I’m not sure how to compare them.

    Personally, people on the internet have assumed I was an adult until told otherwise since I was about fourteen, and I’ve never experienced it negatively, but then I’ve also never experienced the other stuff you mention here, presumably because my engagement with social justice/Serious Issue Blogging has always been more or less in a lurker capacity. All I’ve gotten is blog comments with slight “aw a cute young girl” condescension auras.

  6. I have to say that I myself was not aware of your actual age until reading this post. And yet I very nearly was going to say that you write with a kind of authority that few people in their teens and early twenties are capable. I relate, being that such things were said to me not long ago, and I found them condescending at best. For what it’s worth, I would have intended those words as a complement, with the best of intentions.

    When I was in my teens and early twenties, I felt a strong sense of isolation from my peers. They were interested in passions and pursuits I often found formulaic, juvenile, and silly. Quite deliberately, I aspired to sound “older”. So being lumped in with everyone else my relative age would have been a high insult.

    I’ll tell you a situation from my recent past that is related. To make a long story short, a car accident eons ago caused issues with connective tissue in my left thumb. Trying to avoid surgery, I visited a deep tissue massage therapist. While speaking informally with her during the session, I mentioned something that she apparently took as wise, but then immediately implied that I was too young to have reached this conclusion by myself. Total invalidation. It was not amused.

  7. Chally, you’re a good writer. Period. Somehow I missed all of the harassment you’ve received because of your age, and I’m sorry for it. If I had seen it, I would have spoken up. I’m 22 now, and it slowly gets better. I’m enjoying 22. At 21, many associated me with the wild, party-sex-drinking-binges that stereotypical 21 year olds in the U.S. supposedly do. I was in college. I did drink. And yes, sometimes I did silly or stupid things while drinking. I am still the same person, but that wild, partying stereotyping nonsense is done, partly because I’m 22, but I think party because I graduated with my bachelor’s last May. I’m starting my writing career, and it is very refreshing to be treated like an adult with insightful ideas, and a creative way of saying them. (Rick, if you’re reading this, THANK YOU.)

    The hardest thing for me, that I’m still learning, is when people start aiming low, to walk away, or hit the delete button on my facebook or my blog, or engage with others present who are respectful and willing to have a decent conversation. I struggled with it yesterday with the disableism surrounding the shooting in Arizona. I argued with various people, on various sites until late into the night last night. (I’ll especially regret that late tonight while I’m at work.) I hope you’re better at it than I am.

    Happy belated birthday, Chally. Don’t let the haters get you down. You’re doing what you love, and you’re good at it. That’s what matters.

  8. I got the mix of condescension and “child prodigy” remarks as a teenager. On top of dealing with the general suckiness of the attitude, I also felt pressured to write write WRITE publish a novel before the age of 20 that guy who wrote Eragon did it why can’t I etc. to keep my child prodigy status or else sink back into the undifferentiated masses of teenagers who got only the condescension without the backpatting. Now that I’m in an age group in which some people *have* published novels, written doctoral theses, and made a name for themselves in literature and academia, I feel a lot more laid-back even though I haven’t done any of those things (yet :P)

    I think it’s important to mention the ableism that is often a factor in this species of ageism, too – the idea that teenagers are all “stupid” and “crazy,” the elevation by teachers and parents of children with high IQ scores above the rest, how easily also a “gifted” child will be knocked from their pedestal if they develop a mental illness. I sympathize with the original goals of the IQ tests, which was to help tailor children’s education programs to their strengths and weaknesses, but it is generally used in our school systems to create a pecking order that privileges “gifted” children above others at the same time as it tokenizes them. I mean the whole point of the “gifted” diagnostic is to go, OMG, look, this little kid can think almost like a REAL person, isn’t she PRECIOUS?!?!?

    That being said, happy birthday, and here’s to a hopefully condescension-free future.

  9. haley: I know there are youth advocacy groups and programs aimed at teens and children, but I have yet to find any strong movement or group serious about Youth liberation. By liberation, I mean promoting autonomy and self determination not only for people of color, women, men, working class and so forth of an ADULT age, but of YOUTHFUL ages as well.

    Were you around for the Feministe and Jezebel commenters’ response to Maia’s work around youth rights and how we understand the role & dynamic of children and parents?

    I feel like even progressive communities often have very traditional ideas about the attributes and roles of children, and are often very jarred or horrified by ideas like: kids can be sexual & have sexual experiences already, kids can be directly affected by & can engage in politics, kids are not growing into potential monsters any more than adults are, kids have the need & right to physical and emotional autonomy and agency, the so-called division between kids and adults is much more complex and socially constructed than we may realize, our ideas about what childhood is and what it should be can mess up kids (i.e., childhood is a time of purity and magic and innocence so I’m not going to teach you how to negotiate consent), etc etc.

    I think youth rights (and elder rights for that matter!) are really important, and there are definitely youth & adults mobilizing for this – albeit with much struggle, because “youth don’t/shouldn’t/can’t mobilize” – but wider mainstream consciousness of those rights is still in its infancy… (No pun intended.)

  10. Thanks for the nice words about my writing, and for the well wishes!!

    Maggie: No, they’re not equivalent problems, and there are different relationships, I think.

  11. Haley – there is actually some great organizing by and for youth. For example, FIERCE, which is by and for LGBT youth of color (many of them homeless, under attack from the wealthy gay white Chelsea establishment, etc.), and also the Young Womens Empowerment Project, which is by and for female youth (including trans girls and young women) in the sex trade and/or street economies (they organize around denial of health care, paternalism, discrimination, etc.).

    I think youth rights are really important but there are a lot more serious issues there than this one.

  12. Thank you for writing this Chally. I’m sorry some people are jerks.

    I’ve dealt with similar issues in both on and offline as well and it really is disheartening for me.

  13. RD, we don’t have to play Oppression Olympics, especially as you’re clearly keenly aware that youth issues aren’t just youth issues, but intersect with other bits of people’s lives and identities.

  14. RD: I think youth rights are really important but there are a lot more serious issues there than this one.  

    This reminds me of people who ask me why I focus so much about the “equality status” of women in America when there are so many women around the world suffering from conditions that are much worse and then call me an ungrateful feminazi. I don’t think seriousness is the same thing as importance. Of course there is a sense of urgency in more urgent matters, but all lives are equally important. Oppression is oppression, and what’s wrong is wrong–I don’t think there’s any need for a comparison. As a matter of fact, I think comparison would do more harm than good.

  15. I’m not playing Oppression Olympics. How, by bring up great youth orgs? I didn’t even say anything about myself. And actually I do think that the equality status of women in the US is less important than the status of women suffering more elsewhere. But what’s even less important than that is being taken less seriously by a few random strangers on the internet for being 19.

    Look, Chally, you wrote this post as if this was just horrible, so oppressive…it didn’t seem like you just meant it as a one-off.

  16. Ah, I thought “this one” was referring to youth rights, not my personal experiences of ageism. You know what? Having all my work seen as fake or improper or what have you isn’t as important as a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth writing about. Sometimes I blog about Swedish pop music, too, and other times I write about massacres. Saying something that clearly matters a lot to me isn’t important for no reason other than that there are other things that are more important in this world is really unnecessary and unkind here.

  17. Yeah, actually, RD, you are. Claiming that an issue an oppressed group brings up is less important than another oppressed groups issue, particularly when you are a member of the latter group and not the former is kind of the definition of Oppression Olympics.

    I think this post is excellent, and I fully agree with you on all counts, but will anything be done to address/correct the recent incident of language insulting to youth on feministe?

  18. Chally, I had no clue how old you were, (where have I been? in my own head somewhere probably) and I was thoroughly impressed by both your writing and the well-thought-out views or opinions you were expressing (even ones I didn’t completely agree with).
    Don’t hold out too much hope for your twenties in terms of the attitudes of those around you changing- your age will be used against you by those who don’t want to hear what you’re saying regardless of how old you actually are. When they can’t call you “too young” anymore they will start saying you are old and out of touch, and then eventually they’ll call you senile. It’s not really about your age, it’s about what other people do or don’t want to hear. On the bright side you may accused of plagiarism less frequently. Maybe.

  19. Thank you so much for writing about this, Chally! This was amazing! There’s no excuse for the dehumanizing treatment that you and other young people (and anyone else treated like that for that matter) are subjected to. Your life isn’t only just now becoming valid. You’ve always been valid! I wish you the best of luck. 🙂

    I also want to say I’m very pleased with the supportive comments. So many other places online where someone even tries to challenge our anti-youth culture they’ll find themselves shouted down and insulted inside and out.

    I myself began college at age 15, graduated at 20, yet so many people thought I was “missing out on childhood” and that this was harmful for me. People basing this entirely on how old I was, even though I knew full well, being my own life and situation, that having stayed the “traditional” route of high school would have done me great harm.

    As for the question of what youth rights orgs are out there, well, in the United States anyway, there’s the National Youth Rights Association (okay, full disclosure, I’ve been on their board of directors for several years!). Main issues include lowering the voting age, repealing curfew laws, protecting student rights, and many others.

  20. I think sometimes people can be so dismissive is because they recall their own journey—I’m totally not the same feminist I am today as I was when I was 20. But no matter our age, we all are on a journey.

    Keep up the good work. 🙂

  21. My first reaction upon reading this article was that I never would have guessed you were so young. Thank you for writing it, it gives me lots of food for thought and shows me that my assumptions about young people need to be addressed.

  22. I think sometimes people can be so dismissive is because they recall their own journey—I’m totally not the same feminist I am today as I was when I was 20.

    I think that’s part of why I have trouble taking this issue seriously, personally. I was immature as a kid and teen — that’s a pretty common phenotype for people who are very much in the process of growing up. I am wiser now than when I was 19. This isn’t to say that kids and teens are never wise or mature, obviously, but I sort of automatically take that kind of thing with a grain of salt ’cause yeah I also thought I was the shit as a kid…and in retrospect I was sometimes sort of the shit and sometimes just a shit. I’m sure I’ll look back at my current self at 30 or 40 and think similarly.

    I’m very undecided on the whole idea, frankly. As someone in her early twenties it is important that people take me seriously, but I also think it’s fair that my opinions aren’t always given an equal weight as those of older people (I mean, when I’m talking to someone who’s been doing a procedure since before I was born… not a bad time to allow a little seniority in.)

  23. (I mean, when I’m talking to someone who’s been doing a procedure since before I was born… not a bad time to allow a little seniority in.)

    Or maybe grad school is just a very humbling experience. I’m back to being both the youngest and most ignorant person in any given group, again. :p

  24. I think it’s a matter of respect. To my good fortune, most comments about my youth or age have been made from a perspective of “wow, I thought you were so much older than you really are”, which for me, was a compliment, given that it was taken as a statement about my maturity.

  25. Young people are constantly walking the same thin double-standard tightrope as women and girls are expected to dance across; the only difference is that for females it’s sexuality vs. chastity, and for the young, it’s competence vs. amusing ineptitude.

    The young and gifted are prized for their potential, but underestimated and condescended to because they’re too young and inexperienced to be able to comment on anything meaningful. The same middle-aged, middle-class people who will boast about how they’ve been doing this for 20 years don’t appreciate the input of a 20-year-old who has been doing the same thing since they were born. Students are encouraged to avoid drugs and alcohol and sex and follow the rules, but also accused of wasting the best years of their lives if they don’t experiment and rebel (in socially acceptable ways that amuse older people), and that goes double for the dudes, who are failures if they don’t use these things to prove their manhood.

    In the end, I think the only thing to conclude is that intelligence is threatening to people who like to think that they should be the smart one in the relationship, whatever that relationship is. Students cannot be smarter than their teachers, employees cannot be smarter than their employers, the junior cannot be smarter than the senior. To deviate from this makes the expected inferior partner look self-important and arrogant for daring to have thoughts on or higher than the level of their superiors before they’ve earned enough seniority by not dying for an acceptable number of years. Ageism isn’t any prettier than any other -ism.

  26. Thank you for writing this.

    I thought I was the only one in the whole world who was told that I was “a good writer, for a teenager” (when I was a teenager). Writing that out now, though, it’s probably ridiculous that I thought that way, but I guess it never occurred to me that others might have similar experiences to me. I realize that’s completely selfish, but I learn new things every day and try to adjust accordingly.

    Also, if it matters at all, I’m with Comrade Kevin: I never knew your age until this very post. So, I guess, happy belated birthday!

  27. The same middle-aged, middle-class people who will boast about how they’ve been doing this for 20 years don’t appreciate the input of a 20-year-old who has been doing the same thing since they were born.

    Well, not to harp on this or anything (it’s just genuinely been on my mind) but there’s a learning curve on a lot of things for a portion of that time. Someone who has been writing from age 10 to age 30 is probably going to have had a different amount/quality of writing experience in that 20 year span than someone who is 20 (whose 20 year span is going to include stuff like developing basic motor skills, learning her alphabet and how to hold a pen, etc.)

    Which is to say, I don’t think you can directly map a child’s experience onto an adult’s. (I’m literally visualizing a graph here, X axis is time and Y axis is “competency” or whatever, with learning curves springing up from zero…) I would absolutely find it appropriate to praise a developmentally typical four-year-old for being able to recite the alphabet, but a 10-year-old less so (and a 20-year-old not at all) because the curve for that task looks different at each of those ages; the slope and integral of the birth -> 20yo portion will be very different from the 10yo -> 30yo portion. I have a hard time reconciling those kind of shifting expectations — which seem totally reasonable — with the “ageism” of judging someone’s performance against their age.

    Basically, I think that age is a pretty unique category when it comes to social justice — you do not generally get “more woman-y” or “blacker” over time, but you do get older — and I think that simply equating it to other groups/minorities does the complexities of aging a disservice. In short, I fundamentally see a statement like “you write well for a teenager” as being different than something like “you write well for a woman (POC, etc.)” even if I can’t put my finger on why.

  28. I fundamentally see a statement like “you write well for a teenager” as being different than something like “you write well for a woman (POC, etc.)” even if I can’t put my finger on why.  

    I strongly disagree. The fact is, most people don’t really write much– sure, lots of us have Myspace posts and emails and texts, but most people write to communicate socially, not to communicate ideas to people outside their usual social or work circles. It’s not something everyone can do, let alone something everyone can do well. An adult saying “you write well, for a teenager” is instantly asserting that they, being older and more experienced, are (or, more often, would be, if they wrote,) a better writer, the same way a man is instantly asserting that he is better when he says “not bad, for a girl” to a woman. It’s a statement that the quality of the work is noticeably better than average, but not on the level of what someone of the commentor’s age/race/sex/whatever typically does– when someone says “not bad for your age”, there’s an unspoken follow up that goes, “but I’m still better because I’m older than you.”

    Yes, there is an observable trend among young writers to be less skilled than older writers, because they haven’t been writing for as long and haven’t had as much time to hone their skills. That doesn’t instantly mean that a person’s age bracket dictates their skills, or that a younger writer cannot be more skilled than an older one, and it certainly doesn’t mean that “you write well for a teenager” is any less of a backhanded compliment.

    What’s wrong with “You write well”, no strings attached?

  29. Great post. It’s good to see all the encouragement here, though similarly disheartening to occasionally see the attitude that the issue isn’t an important one.

    My writing took a lapse when I went to college, and in high school I was blessed with teachers who left out the condescension when they praised me. Maybe because the writing wasn’t good enough to be threatening, or maybe because they were just awesome – I’m not really sure. But I’ve encountered the similar and infuriating issue (and really, still do sometimes, at 23) of my opinions and viewpoints being dismissed as “parroting” prominent feminists and skeptics for years because I couldn’t possibly be smart enough or informed enough at 15/17/21 to really understand the issues. That or, from my otherwise fantastic parents, the tired “you’re going through your rebellion phase; you’ll see how valuable your religious upbringing was when you’re older” when I talk about being an atheist.

    I guess it all comes down to people looking for a reason to dismiss things that they feel threatened by. Age is always an easy one, and comes as a no-brainer because nearly everyone’s had that used against them at some point.

    Best wishes for your 20s; it does get better!

  30. Chally, thanks for writing this. As a younger person in the feminist community, I do sometimes wonder how my ideas will be received–in my case, particularly due to my lack of experience with some writings or issues that most everyone else has read. Since you’ve been in the community longer than I have, I’m not sure if you have the same problem, but it was nonetheless helpful to read your story.

    Do you have any particular suggestions for dealing with critics who are too focused on your age?

  31. Yeah, there are some writings I am trying to “catch up” on that a lot of more established feminists seem to have read, but I think that in addition to the issue of simply having not had as much time to read them there are some other things going on. Like, which kinds of texts are assumed to be in the feminist canon? A lot of the time it might be academic texts, which not everyone has access to, or texts by US feminists (where, you know, there are texts important to other places, and also books are really expensive where I live). Happily, I’m at university now, and I have access to a lot of those books, so I’m making my way through in between my studies. My suggestion – if you wanted my advice on this, I’m not sure! – is to keep reading and engaging, and remember that most of the planet isn’t familiar with a lot of the writing or framing of a lot of the issues that are held up as The Feminist Issues and Writing, yet all of the planet is of feminist concern. Different perspectives, offered respectfully and with an open mind, are pretty much always welcome from where I’m standing. And feminism needs that to be effective, I think.

    Some of my favourite techniques are to question the extent to which my age has anything to do with the matter at hand, point out assumptions about my life experience, ask how someone would have reacted differently had the piece been written by someone older, ask what evidence they might have to back up suspicions of plagiarism, and just ask to be treated as an equal, with respect. But, you know, I have gotten some awful reactions for being perfectly polite and treating older people as equals rather than superiors. There’s no absolute suggestion that works.

  32. I fundamentally see a statement like “you write well for a teenager” as being different than something like “you write well for a woman (POC, etc.)” even if I can’t put my finger on why.

    Sarah:
    I strongly disagree.

    I think there’s room for both ideas to exist. Like, oppressions function (or dysfunction) and play out in different ways, which is why being an expert in one oppression doesn’t mean your knowledge can be neatly overlaid onto another. Not to mention the considerable diversity of lived experiences within a single oppression, such as racism!

    I don’t think it’s entirely right to say that ageism is the same as racism, for example, or that they’re equal in severity – because I think it’s a fallacy that making such a calculation is even possible. Plus, I think attempting that kind of “oppression Olympics” math amounts to categorizing and ranking our own sufferings, which I suspect isn’t the kind of thinking that can be truly liberatory.

    (Disclaimer: that said, when people complain because a blog is covering too many white issues, or whatever, I don’t think that’s tantamount to “oppression Olympics”. There’s a difference between shedding a light on your own exclusion from a space, and starting a race to the bottom about who deserves the most and least liberation.)

    But at the same time that ageism isn’t “just like” racism, there are some common social constructions that underlie oppressions, and maybe one of those constructions is the pigeon-holing of people into a rigid categorization system, in which those who don’t fit are either violently forced into a pigeon-hole, or shamed and exiled, or silently erased, or in some cases, crushed and killed.

    Maybe part of resistance is finding a way to write and live and trust your own narrative when the rest of the world is persistently backspacing your existence, or writing over your words.

    Now I’m just rambling.

  33. Yes, there is an observable trend among young writers to be less skilled than older writers, because they haven’t been writing for as long and haven’t had as much time to hone their skills. That doesn’t instantly mean that a person’s age bracket dictates their skills, or that a younger writer cannot be more skilled than an older one, and it certainly doesn’t mean that “you write well for a teenager” is any less of a backhanded compliment.

    What’s wrong with “You write well”, no strings attached? Sarah

    I basically agree with you; I think I’m just coming from a bit a different perspective, ’cause when I hear or say something like “you write well for a kid/teenager/etc.” I see it as more comparing them to their imaginary older self, rather than to random older people. I fully expect that a person who “writes well for a 5-year-old” is going to proceed to “write well” for a 10-year-old, a teenager, an adult, and so on and so on.

    It’s totally subjective — I’m not trying to say I’m right! But that’s how it strikes me, as commenting on a moment in a person’s progression rather than trying to treat them as if they are statically a “good writer” and always have been. (As someone whose skills are very much not static at the moment, I’m just thinking out loud. :p)

  34. It’s totally subjective — I’m not trying to say I’m right! But that’s how it strikes me, as commenting on a moment in a person’s progression rather than trying to treat them as if they are statically a “good writer” and always have been.

    Well, that’s true– it IS totally subjective, which is why I think that undervaluing something just because it was written by someone young who can expect to improve in the future is offensive. The ability to communicate is both a talent and a skill, and raw talent doesn’t care how old a person is when they discover it. Now, if someone were to read something written by a teenager and say, “This is really good, I look forward to the evolution of your work” or even constructive criticism that doesn’t boil down to “This will be better when you’re my age”, that would be perfectly all right!

    I suppose a certain amount of this is personal frustration on my part; when I was a teenager, this kind of talk discouraged me from actually trying to write anything meaningful. I was constantly being told that my work was good, for someone my age. When I asked how my being older would change what I had written, no one had any answers beyond, “You don’t know anything.” When I asked what I needed to know, the usual answer was along the lines of “that’s cute that you asked that”, or “You’ll understand when you’re older.” I gave up trying to communicate any of my ideas at that point, because how old does a person have to be before they can write something, have someone read it, and have anything to say about it other than “this would be really good if you weren’t a kid.”

    All I mean is that “…for a teenager” is as dismissive as any other praise-caveat, whether it’s true in context or not, and just as backhanded. There are better ways to compliment a young writer without trying to undermine the worth of their effort with their age.

  35. Chally,

    I completely understand what you mean. I, myself, am fourteen years old, a writer and a musician. People constantly tell me that I will never do anything worth while until I am older, I do not accept this as fact, and I try my best now instead of waiting for the magical age of 18. I am young through no fault of my own. Keep writing.

  36. It’s funny (where funny is read as frustrating). This idea that “you will understand/be better/get it when you are older hasn’t gone away in my experience and I am 30. I still, now, have people tell me that I have lived long enough to understand things. People still talk to me as if I couldn’t possibly grasp why something is the way it is (“when you’ve been in the military 12 years…”). Even with parenting, the fact that I have an 8 year old doesn’t seem to matter because I started parenting young, so my peers who have young children who “did it the right way” by marrying first, dismiss my advice as that of a young, wild, misfit who has no clue how to change a diaper let alone why a kid is behaving in a certain way. It just Never Ends.

    I also like that you compare it to being misracialized and being erased on this blog, because I find a level of truth to it. It doesn’t matter how much you do, or where you do it, people are going to tear you down (white feminists and non-white alike, it seems, because you will always be doing it R-O-N-G unless you do it according to their script). The work you have done here is revolutionary, though, as the membership chair of the We Hate White People Club, you need to return the toaster.

    The point is that you are total Rocketsauce, the main ingredient, even. I hope your twenties are better, and that you are able to relax and enjoy them knowing how incredible you are. I hope you are able to enjoy your accomplishments and that the criticisms of people who are only here to tear you down don’t manage to succeed.

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