Feministe Feedback: Help for a friend in an abusive relationship

64 thoughts on Feministe Feedback: Help for a friend in an abusive relationship

1. I’ve been with an emotionally abusive asshole before, with some drinking and drug problems in development while I was dating him (he oh-so-kindly always offered to let me join).

   Be as there for her as you can. Call her everyday. Meet up with her new friends and her if you can, become friends with them, let them know about this cycle.

   For me at least, telling me (or posting to the internet about it) would not have worked. Talking mean about this guy won’t either. You just have to be as there as you can, especially when the bad stuff happens.

   ymmv, of course.

2. She has been in situations like this before, and managed to leave the guy and get herself into a safer position relatively quickly, and with the help of her enormous circle of friends. This time around, though, she doesn’t have such a vast support network . . .

   I suspect the reason her support network is no longer so vast is precisely because they have been required to repeatedly save this woman from abusive relationships.

   I don’t know how to save people from abusive relationships. I’ve tried, but never succeeded. However, if she does get out, she needs counseling so she can stop this cycle of abuse and salvation. As she is already learning, people get tired of having to continually rescue others from the same situations. She needs to stop this before rescue is no longer an option.

3. I agree with nonskanse. Be there for her as much as you can. Let her know (if it’s feasible for you) that you are available for her by phone any time she needs it. Talk with her ex-boyfriend and anyone else who knows what’s going on and work out an “escape” plan with them. Then let her know that if anything happens she can call any one of them and someone will go pick her up or just be with her.
   Best of luck to both of you.

4. i work for a domestic violence agency in maine, and i’d first like to say that you’re doing exactly what you should. be as there for her as you can be (i know this is a repeat, but it bears repeating). stay in touch. don’t abandon her. what i know is that the abuse isn’t because of his alcohol (or other drug) problems – people who are alcoholic aren’t always abusive, people who are abusive aren’t always alcoholics, and people who are abusive and alcoholic are still abusive even after they’ve gotten treatment for the alcohol problem. that’s because abusive behavior is a choice – in this case, his choice, not your friend’s. she doesn’t choose to get into abusive relationships, as “personal statement” seems to be implying. i suspect she fell in love because it’s really good, when it’s good, and the abuse didn’t start right away. after listening to her and believing her, which you’re clearly doing, some concrete things you can do are reiterate how you feel about her situation: “i’m scared for you,” “i’m worried about you,” “i know he can be a great guy, but that doesn’t give him the right to treat you this way,” “it’s not your fault.” find out what the domestic violence agency is in her area (there is one, i promise) and give her their hotline number. calling the hotline doesn’t mean someone’s going to make her go to shelter – it just means she has an extra avenue of support, since he’s isolated her from her friends. and dv advocates are trained to be non-judgmental, so no one will be telling her it’s her fault, or what she should do. mostly what we do is listen, and give options if we’re asked. if you’re friends with any of her friends, you might talk to them and encourage them not to give up on her – they can call her, too. there’s a lot of shame and stigma around intimate partner violence, mostly because of all the victim-blaming that goes on (“she always gets into these relationships,” “she pushes his buttons,” “she should know better by now” – kind of like what we hear about sexual assault. odd how no one ever says this kind of thing about other crimes). let her know she has nothing to be ashamed of, and talk to her about who she might go to for help in her area – does she have a job? is she in school? is she close to her family? people at the dv agency can help her figure out what her options are – we call it safety planning, and it doesn’t always mean figuring out how to leave.
   you’re doing everything right – what we always tell friends is to listen, believe, and don’t judge (her or her partner). be there for her, and make sure you’re getting the support you need, because it’s frustrating to watch a friend go through this. thank you for being such a great friend to her, and know that your support is incredibly important.
   kt

5. In my experience you can’t talk someone out of an abusive relationship. I’ve seen someone I’m close to become isolated and the only thing I could do for her was to stay available and to not judge her for choosing to stay as long as she did. My best advice is to continue to reach out to her and let her know that you love her no matter what, that no one deserves to be treated the way she’s being treated, that she deserves better, and that she can leave at any time and you will support her in whatever way you can (even if it’s only emotionally).

   Also, if you see her being abused physically, call the police. After my friend ended her relationship she was empowered when she realized that some of her ex’s behavior was illegal – she didn’t have to withstand his attacks alone, she had the police on her side.

6. Since it seems clear that she knows this guy is no good, it might help to get her to really think about what it would be like to have children with him. Could she live with him abusing her in front of their children? Could she live with him abusing their children? And could she live with having had kids with him knowing what a terrible person he can be?

   No matter how trapped she feels, the answer to all three of those questions should be a resounding “no.” While the abuse would be entirely his fault, knowingly bringing kids into the situation could weigh heavily on her conscience. Even if she doesn’t think she deserves a better life (and, friend, if you’re reading this, YOU DO), she should believe that her future children do.

   As for the fact that she doesn’t feel she has much of a support network, she has you, and she has an ex-boyfriend willing to help her if she gets rid of this new jerk. That’s two really great friends right there, and that’s a lot more than a lot of people have. Remind her that not having as much as she had before is not the same as having nothing at all.

   Does she have a family? Do they know what’s going on with her?

7. I’ve been in emotionally abusive, toxic relationships myself. And I’ve seen both of my sisters end up in situations just like these. Insecurity and low self-worth are the reasons why they feel they have to settle for men who are unhealthy. It has caused me no small consternation to recognize that they could do so much better for themselves. And I know that those who care about me have felt the same way. I can’t speak for my siblings, but in my situation, I was deathly afraid of being alone, and entered very unhealthy relationships for that reason.

   My advice is for her friends to reinforce how much they care and love her, while simultaneously encouraging her to leave him. Other posters have noted the difficulty of getting through to someone in an abusive relationship. It is, unfortunately, easier to stay in the dysfunction you know than brave the healthy unknown. We end up repeating patterns of behavior, and I certainly did, bouncing from one partner to another who kept me around for their own gratification, but rarely took my own feelings and desires into account.

   Has she opened up about why in particular she feels a compulsion to stay with him? One of my sisters never did until the physical abuse ended up with her fighting back and ending up in jail because of it. Hitting absolute rock bottom is what it took for her, and I fear the same may be true here.

8. Is there a local domestic abuse crisis line you could call? When I was volunteering with a rape crisis center, we were closely partnered with a domestic abuse center and they would take calls not only from people in abuse situations but also from friends and family trying to get help for them. They’d probably have a lot of ideas of what you could do to best help your friend.

9. Agreed with the others… there is not a whole lot you can do apart from being there. Get a bus pass. Meet her in the middle for brunch every Saturday…

   At the same time, as a social worker and someone who has tried to help friends in toxic relationships – his isn’t you or your relationship, and you have to practice adequate boundaries for self care.

   As the old adage goes, you can lead a deer to water but you can’t make it drink. Please do not get down on yourself or obsessed with trying to make her leave him…

   I currently work with sex workers & drug users – and I see them making choices every day that are detrimental to their emotional and physical health. We work from a harm reduction model – which I beleive also encompasses compassion, support, empathy – not being judgemental. Having a onderful friend is a arm reduction tool – simply your presence in her life is something that increases the chance of her getting out of the abuse cycle.

   But you can’t make it happen. She is her own free-thnking being with choices – all you can do is be there to support her.

   And if it gets to hard for you – let her know why. If you told her honestly that its just too hard for you to see her go through the ringer again – that its making you sick, depressed, etc …

10. I agree with abby wan kenobi. I lived upstairs from an asshole who beat his girlfriend. When I heard him try to rape her, I called the police. She denied it, but a week later, she was gone.

    Then the asshole got drunk, tried to break into someone’s garage, got picked up by the police, and confessed everything. Hah.

11. I totally agree with the others on not being able to talk her out of it. Something has to click within her, or something in the situation has to break or get extreme. I’ve been one of those concerned friends before. It’s so hard to hang with a person in this position. Just give whatever support you can, and the ideas about crisis center calls and/or reporting any physical abuse if you see it are also good. Take care.

12. Never judge her, always listen, always support. Never say “I told you so” or give her orders. She has to get out herself, and she needs to know that when she does, she will have you to help her.

13. Depending on the guy, get a restraining order.
    As an attorney, you should know how effective (or ineffective) these can be.
    I helped a friend with this once. The guy was so image-conscious that, as soon as I informed him about the order, all the phone calls, texts, and e-mails stopped. he did not even go in to challenge it; I am sure he did not want anyone to know what was going on.
    Of course, she has to want it, and he has to be the type that would obey it.
    -Jut

14. My sister and I have a friend who was in a very emotionally abusive relationship. One by one her boyfriend cut her off from all her other friends. She knew we didn’t like him, but we didn’t talk about him or pressure her. After a couple years, she was ready to leave, and we were there to support her. It was rough, seeing her with this asshat, but if we had made her choose, she would have chosen him.

15. Second to what Bushfire said. As a friend in this situation, it can be very frustrating and it sounds like you’re doing a good job so far but it’s important to stay the opposite of the abusive boyfriend’s behavior. He’s blaming, isolating, yelling, abusing and taking away her sense of self. You need to listen, understand and empower her to make her own choices while highlighting the positive things she’s doing for herself. The more you push and try to strong arm her, the more she’s going to reject that. What the abused woman is saying is very critical. She said that she doesn’t feel like she has any friends to turn to anymore. The more she feels isolated, the more she will have difficulty leaving. It’s important to remember that despite the bf’s abusive behavior, in her mind she is still mourning the potential loss of a relationship and her feelings need to be taken seriously. Be there for her when she needs it and offer to find local DV resources with her. If she wants to, she has to take that first step to make the call to the crisis line and decide whether she wants to meet with a women’s advocate. It can be very trying but even though she’s left other abusive boyfriends before, this is to her a completely different relationship. It sounds like you’ve had conversations with her about how dangerous this can be but also talk about what safety measures she’s taking right now and what she could take in the future.

16. I’ve just gotten out of what I’ve decided will be the last of a string of abusive relationships. It’s not easy. At all.
    Telling her to get out will not help. She almost certainly already knows what she SHOULD do. In practice, it’s much harder.
    She has to buckle down and make a very committed decision to get out. And if her heart’s not in it, like mine always hasn’t, she won’t be able to do it. I’ve tried probably a dozen times to get out of this last relationship. But I always went back, because I didn’t really want to leave, despite knowing that I should.
    It’s a matter of disassociating. I ignored what I thought I wanted for a day–just one day. And I was finally able to do it. After that, it’s a matter of not contacting him. At all.
    If you are able to stay with her to that point make sure she has NO CONTACT with him whatsoever.
    Unconditional support is what she needs right now. She’s probably lost a lot from these negative relationships. Make sure she knows she won’t lose you. But at the same time, she has to do all of this on her own, make these decisions. You can’t tell her what to do.
    As for her financial situation, that’s something she’ll have to decide for herself, whether or not to take her ex’s offer, or whatever other options that may be available to her.
    Best of luck. I hope this has been helpful and I hope everything works out.

17. If this is a pattern for your friend, then there is something in the relationships that is feeding a familiar ‘poison’ in her life – that poison could be disrespect, rejection, control by another, etc – but until she deals with her need for the poison, she’ll continue to find people (lovers and friends) who will feed it to her. Many of us are raised with love tainted by some poison, and love doesn’t feel familiar without it. It’s a lot of work to separate out the two. Meanwhile, be there for her in a positive way and hold her with love and respect.

18. Well it sounds like this is a pattern for her, so if she gets out of this abusive relationship, she might just get into another one. You’ve made your opinion known, I think that’s a good idea. Beyond that, some people just “R who they R”.

19. Sometimes speaking in the stark terms of “abuse” only push victims further in denial.

    A lot of people wonder if they’ll ever find someone again, or cling to one or two good qualities as the “perfect” qualities that they really don’t care to do without.

    I’d point out that 99% of relationships “fail.” That we should not think of any relationship as “the one” because every relationship seems to be “a success” until it actually fails.

    So instead of waiting around and hoping things get better just so we can stay in the “successful” relationship, we should acknowledge that most relationships with end and plan accordingly. Prepare the ground now for an exit that will prepare you to learn from what was nice about this relationship AND what was bad about it, and move on.

    The best way to do this is to physically move.

    We all need to realize that it’s easy to fall in love and hard to leave. No one ever talks about breaking up and so we all do break-ups horribly.

20. I cannot believe the amount of victim blaming going on on a feminist site here. She has a pattern of being abused, so it’s not worth supporting her through abusive relationships? Holy crap.

21. I am too saddened by the amount of victim blaming happening here. I’m sorry that your friend is in this situation and it can be truly difficult to watch from the outside. I don’t know where you are at but most states have domestic violence centers, usually one in every county but this is not always the case. If you cannot find a local number, calling the National Domestic Violence Hotline would be a great option. They may be able to set you and your friend up with some local resources. http://www.thehotline.org/

    Most agencies should support your friend in what she wants to do. Relationships are always more complicated than they seem from the outside. If she does in fact want to leave hopefully they can help find her someplace to stay and set her up with ways to get out on her own two feet. If she wants to stay with him they can hopefully help her to do some planning for staying safe and ideas about what her option are in case of an emergency.

    It is really important to know that in an abusive relationship the danger often escalates when a person tries to exit the relationship, even if that is just withdrawing emotionally. It is important to recognize that sometimes staying is actually the safest and best option, and that the only person who can really know that is the person in the situation. We should always support someone in that situation in what they want to do. Regardless of previous abuse, abuse is NEVER the victim’s fault and the only way domestic violence will ever end is for the ABUSERS to stop abusing.

    As for the woman who wrote in, please take care of yourself as well. I know this can be an emotionally stressful situation for friends. Most crisis lines are there to support you too so do not hestitate to access those resources.

22. I think the “when it’s good, it’s really good” is a clue on how to proceed. She’s probably doing a cost-benefit analysis that goes like this:

    If I stay with Abusive Asshole, I get some very good things and some very bad things.
    If I leave Abusive Asshole, I lose the very good things and the very bad things.
    Abusive Asshole is the only person in the world who will give me these very good things.
    Therefore, if I want these very good things, I have to put up with the very bad things.
    (Also, based on my experience, it’s very likely that anyone else will give me these very bad things, too.)

    With that perspective, staying makes perfect sense. Of course, that perspective is based on some incorrect beliefs. Perhaps you could explore those with her, and ask her if she believes that she could get the very good things from someone else who doesn’t give the very bad things.

    You could also consider discussing her future with him, particularly if she wants children. Children who grow up in abusive households are dramatically more likely to abuse or be abused as adults. Is that the life she wants for her kids? I would tread lightly with this, though, because it’s a bit of a guilt-trip, and that can backfire bigtime.

23. Eli Shrinks: I cannot believe the amount of victim blaming going on on a feminist site here. She has a pattern of being abused, so it’s not worth supporting her through abusive relationships? Holy crap.  

    Huh? Exactly who on this thread has said anything like that?

24. What? No one said to cut her off. Please take the straw to another thread.

    nonskanse: Be as there for her as you can. Call her everyday. Meet up with her new friends and her if you can, become friends with them, let them know about this cycle.

    groggette: Be there for her as much as you can.

    abby_wan_kenobi: My best advice is to continue to reach out to her and let her know that you love her no matter what, that no one deserves to be treated the way she’s being treated, that she deserves better, and that she can leave at any time and you will support her in whatever way you can (even if it’s only emotionally).

    nathan: Just give whatever support you can,

    Bushfire: Never judge her, always listen, always support

    Aside from possible hand-waving from Tony that this is something intrinsic to her personality, I don’t see anyone who is suggesting she (she?) shouldn’t support her friend. Lots of people say she can’t make her friend leave this relationship – and that’s pretty factual. It doesn’t imply that she should stop being supportive at all.

25. Can’t make her leave. Can’t convince her to leave. She will stay until the good times aren’t so good anymore. Just don’t let the alcoholic abusive asshole drive you or the rest of the support system away.

26. This story is heartbreaking, as are the comments–it seems like we’ve all been in a situation like this before. I have to echo the posts above that advise staying in the friend’s life, reminding her that she is a person worthy of respect and dignity.

27. A few months ago, I was also the woman “waiting for the abusive asshole to stop being an abusive asshole.”

    So I can back up everyone here who advises that you show her that you love and support her. It is, unfortunately, the best thing you can do.

    My friends never stopped letting me know that they were there for me-and ultimately, it’s what gave me the courage to get away from the abuse. If any of them had told me flat out he was a jerk and I needed out, however, I know I would have shunned them for it.

    Good luck.

28. If she decides to leave, it’s going to be something that she does on her own. No amount of convincing on your part will make much of a difference.

    I would encourage your friend to find counseling and to ask her boyfriend to consider counseling as well. I was in a similar situation and got into counseling myself. When I worked through some things and finally got the courage to tell him he needed counseling, he refused. That’s what finally made me realize that all of the “I’ll work harder; I’ll do better” was just talk.

    Do you have any mutual friends? Are there any people you know in that area? If she could find a few female friends in town that her boyfriend finds nonthreatening, it would start her down the right path toward building another support network. At the very least, she would have more people to talk to and spend time with. I don’t think she should have to get rid of her male friends but for now it seems she’s stuck in a situation where some contact is better than none.

    Continue to support her for as long as she needs. It may be some time before she feels ready to move on.

29. when i started reading this i actually thought it was about me…it really sort of is. it’s long distance, he’s an alcoholic and verbally/psychologically abusive. i don’t know what my problem is or why i stay.
    i think that a large part is that he good stuff is really good and things are getting better. he’s acknowledged there is a problem, he’s working hard to get better and stay sober (he’s been sober for a while now. but won’t go to meetings).
    part of it is that i an plainly see what causes the bad shit and i empathize with him and his situation. and the other half of me knows “excuses excuses”.
    we are also very similar, being bipolar and with so much baggage its ridiculous and i can’t see how anyone else would ever accept all this shit–from me. what i’ve been through, from before this current situation is bad enough. and why would i throw away something for nothing?
    it’s a tough one.
    in my head i know it’s bad and i should get out.
    i have no advice. i also have no support…
    this is a tough one. i really do love him. i’m beginning to realise he may never change, yet at the same time before my very eyes he is changing.

30. Like Skye, I was in the same position as your friend for almost four years.

    I’m glad that you are there for her. If your friend’s experience is anything like mine was, she probably feels undeserving of your help and attention and blames herself for some of the things that have happened to her. It will be very difficult to convince her that her boyfriend is a flat out creep. I had a good friend that helped see that I was worthy, beautiful and capable. After she started introducing me to a greater social circle, I finally had enough confidence to make new friends. As I made new friends, I learned new perspectives and eventually saw that I could have a better life and mindset.

    I also was with meager resources when I exited my abusive relationship. I agree with the other posters about keeping in contact with that ex who that willing to financially help. I know that it’s difficult to find employment & housing these days, but keep your eye out for potential opportunities so that she won’t have to rely on anyone else and easily fall back into the cycle of abuse. When she is ready to leave him, make sure that she files with the DMV, courts and appropriate government bodies if she has bought a car, a home or any other large purchases with this person. You should also encourage her to file a restraining order while these things take effect, so that he cannot take back these items if he tracks her down.

31. Personal Failure: She has been in situations like this before, and managed to leave the guy and get herself into a safer position relatively quickly, and with the help of her enormous circle of friends. This time around, though, she doesn’t have such a vast support network . . .I suspect the reason her support network is no longer so vast is precisely because they have been required to repeatedly save this woman from abusive relationships.I don’t know how to save people from abusive relationships. I’ve tried, but never succeeded. However, if she does get out, she needs counseling so she can stop this cycle of abuse and salvation. As she is already learning, people get tired of having to continually rescue others from the same situations. She needs to stop this before rescue is no longer an option.  

    I see that some other people have responded to this, and I wanted to clarify something. My friend doesn’t necessarily have “a pattern” of being in abusive relationships that require her friends to “save” her. In the past, if she found herself in a bad situation, she’d leave, usually on her own. She’s not one to call on people to “save” her, which is actually part of the problem, from what I can see.

    Thank you all for your advice so far. It’s very troubling how many people I know have found themselves in this situation, and how many other people have too, by evidence of the comments on this thread alone.

32. I have a follow-up question:

    It seems that the catalyst to his abusive behavior is alcohol. Has anyone been in a situation like this where the person with the drinking problem has stopped drinking, and their situation has improved? I tend to be pessimistic about such an outcome, but that may be due to my own experiences.

33. Unconditional positive regard and non-judgment.

    You know that what shes doing is bad for her, you know that things aren’t going to change, you know that this is a destructive path. So does she. Your friend isn’t stupid, she’s in a terrible place. She has fallen for someone who is capable of both kindness and aggression and she doesn’t know how to get out yet, she. She is surrounded by people telling her what she should do, surrounded by people pushing her this way or that, don’t be yet another one of those people. Be there for her, support her, don’t push, convince, cajole, or direct her. Don’t organize behind her back, don’t be someone else who knows better than she does. All of that helps you, it gives you piece of mind and allows you to feel like you’re doing something. It does nothing for her.

    The time will come when she is ready to go and she’ll need people she can trust who can give her the help she needs even if it puts them out. Maybe she’ll ask you to save her, maybe she’ll just ask for a place to stay for a week or so. Be there to give her whatever it is she tells you she needs. If you know her circle of friends you’ll know who else can help and can contact them then.

34. I would say, continue to be supportive.  Perhaps send her the link so that she can see what her situation looks like from the POV of someone not her.

    Also, what William said, yes.

35. It sounds like one of the things keeping your friend in the situation is economic difficulty. Maybe that’s something you could help with — not lending money, but talking with her about her job situation, what kinds of jobs she might like, or helping her do research on job sites or something?

    Also, Breakup Girl had a great column about this back in 1998.

36. To clarify, I’m not suggesting the reader not support her friend, that’s the last thing that would be good for this friend, who, as the reader notes, feels she has no one to turn to. I would echo those who say continue to be supportive. That ought to really count for a lot. Don’t put your friendship in danger over this.

37. While you are supporting your friend, please remember to get support for yourself too – it can be very stressful watching someone you care about going through this and not being able to do much. Domestic violence hotlines and centres will provide resources and support for friends and family. Learning more about the dynamics of abusive relationships can help too. But you NEED to look after yourself so you don’t burn out.

38. Tim:
    Huh? Exactly who on this thread has said anything like that?  

    I think what Eli Shrinks was referring to was victim-blaming like this:

    As she is already learning, people get tired of having to continually rescue others from the same situations. She needs to stop this before rescue is no longer an option. Personal Failure

39. Yup, I was referring to comments like those by Personal Failure (“I suspect the reason her support network is no longer so vast is precisely because they have been required to repeatedly save this woman from abusive relationships.”) and Tony (“Well it sounds like this is a pattern for her, so if she gets out of this abusive relationship, she might just get into another one. […] Beyond that, some people just “R who they R”. “). I’ve been (and currently am) The Friend in this situation and I know it is really hard. But as hard as it is for me to see him get in the same kinds of relationships again and again, at least no one is suggesting that I don’t deserve to be in a healthy relationship, or supported through bad ones. Tony has clarified what ze meant, and I don’t think anyone meant to victim blame, but I am seeing frustration with the writer’s friend for being abused again (like there is an acceptable quota of abuse that she has exceeded?), rather than outrage at the abuser for being abusive. That is victim blaming, and we need to be aware of it.

40. Eli Shrinks: but I am seeing frustration with the writer’s friend for being abused again (like there is an acceptable quota of abuse that she has exceeded?), rather than outrage at the abuser for being abusive. That is victim blaming, and we need to be aware of it. 

    I want to be clear that this isn’t the way that I feel about what she’s going through. What I’m seeing, and what maybe wasn’t made clear in the original way I worded the question, is that she seems uncharacteristaically compelled to stick around a situation which she knows to be completely unhealthy, yet she seems to have no motivation or inclination to make it stop. The sort of no-nonsense way she’s approached crappy and potentially dangerous experiences with relationships in the past, and the way that she seems to be so accepting of this terrible behavior in the present, are so polar opposite. It seems that she’s not even all that interested in making the effort to leave for reasons that aren’t so common in abusive relationships. There aren’t any kids, there are ways out financially, etc. But it was the same in my situation with my ex, too. No kids, I had a place to stay if I need to (my family), but I stuck around for way too long, anyway.

    I really wonder if it isn’t related to women just feeling more pressure to be supportive and caring, and take care of their partners and friends that might be contributing to her wanting to stay. I don’t feel that it’s necessarily appropriate to speculate, but it’s the only way I feel useful in trying to figure out how to help, because it isn’t such a cut-and-dry, stereotypical pattern of intimate partner violence, you know? I know, too, how exhausting it can be to try and maintain a reasonable life while dealing with this partner who is abusive and also addicted to something, and sometime, even leaving just feels like too much work.

41. The Friend: I have a follow-up question:It seems that the catalyst to his abusive behavior is alcohol.Has anyone been in a situation like this where the person with the drinking problem has stopped drinking, and their situation has improved?I tend to be pessimistic about such an outcome, but that may be due to my own experiences.  

    A family member of mine was in this exact situation. The husband was a heavy drinker who would get mean and violent, not physically towards his wife and kids, but verbally and emotionally. They begged him to get help, to stop, and one day he just decided “Enough.” He quit drinking, cold turkey, (did not want to go to meetings or formal treatment), and completely cleaned up his act and made a 180-degree turnaround…never drank again, and vastly improved his family relationships. Of course this is not going to be the case for everyone and quitting cold turkey does not work for many people, but I think this kind of story doesn’t get told in our culture. Like many people have pointed out, you can’t externally MAKE someone change or make them make a decision…you can support them and hope that one day they will come to a moment where they decide “Enough.”

42. @The Friend: If your friend has been able to deal with these situations before in a no-nonsense way, if she’s been able to reach out before and now can’t seem to, I’m thinking there are other issues at play. Has she been screened for depression or other challenges like that? Are there other factors in play here?

    The way I deal with situations can vary quite widely depending on my physical and mental health. When I’m depressed, I’m quite apathetic. Angry and bitter, but too overwhelmed to do anything. I’m not saying that’s what’s going on with your friend, but it’s a possibility. And if it’s not that, than it could be something else.

    It’s just the change in behavior, etc. that’s raising the flag for me.

43. The Friend: It seems that the catalyst to his abusive behavior is alcohol. Has anyone been in a situation like this where the person with the drinking problem has stopped drinking, and their situation has improved? I tend to be pessimistic about such an outcome, but that may be due to my own experiences.  

    My father is horribly abusive when drinking. He used to be what we informally called a weekend alcoholic because it didn’t interfere with work. If we didn’t “cross him” when he was drinking, he’d be fine (i.e. it’d still be sad that the dude was drinking on his own reliving his glory days), but the stupidest shit would set him off and he would break things, be emotionally abusive, and once physically abusive – though he threatened physical violence all the time. I ended up skipping town for the last several years because of it.

    He ended up getting diagnosed with a shit ton of non-mental medical problems including diabetes. When he drinks, his blood sugar drops to perilous levels, so he more or less stopped for six months, but he’s started drinking again. It’s less common because they’re also experiencing financial hardships, but it’s got us all on eggshells.

    The point is this: he needs to realize he has a problem (and telling him is insufficient) and he needs to want to get help. It’s very much like what your friend is going through, in that regard. Those two conditions need to be met before steps can be taken to get them help. Whatever happened with my father is shitty but helpful, in it’s own way, but it’s definitely not a long-term solution to the alcohol problem as evidenced by the fact that he’s started again.

    Incidentally, as a note, my dad is angry even without the alcohol. He’s not violent and is significantly less emotionally abusive, but it’s pretty clear that there are two separate problems there. I’m not saying this is true for your friend’s boyfriend, but it’s something you might want to keep in mind.

44. The Friend: I have a follow-up question:It seems that the catalyst to his abusive behavior is alcohol.Has anyone been in a situation like this where the person with the drinking problem has stopped drinking, and their situation has improved?I tend to be pessimistic about such an outcome, but that may be due to my own experiences. 

    I’d be really careful about that line of thinking just because it tends to be a long wait for a train don’t come. The guilt of beating up his girlfriend when he drinks hasn’t lead him to change his behavior, do you really think its possible that you have something more compelling to offer? Even if you somehow managed to coerce him into treatment you would still have to contend with the reality that relapse is part of the process for even the most motivated of people in recovery. More than that, you’re playing into the abuser’s narrative, making the situation about helping him rather than about your friend’s safety. Finally, barring some uniqie situations and rare medical issues, intoxication doesn’t change who someone is, it just lowers inhibition. This man doesn’t beat his girlfriend because he’s a drinker, he beats his girlfriend for the same reason practically all abusers do: because he feels he has the right and enjoys the sense of power it gives him. Alcohol might be a catalyst, but thats all it is.

45. From your follow-up comments, it sounds like she’s trying to be a caretaker, I.e. trying to help him, putting her own needs and safety on a lower tier of priority. We all do it-put aside what we need and want to take care of or simply love who we love. Remind her that, though she may love him, he’s a grown man. He can take care of himself. More importantly, remind her that she needs to take care of herself, bodily, psychologically, and mentally. Even though we may love someone, sometimes we’ve got to put ourselves first.

    My mom was in the hospital earlier this month. For a while, we weren’t sure if she was going to make it. I wanted to spend every moment at her bedside, talking to her, just in case she woke up. But eventually, I had to go home and sleep. I hated it with every fiber of my being. I felt like a bad daughter, a bad person, but I couldn’t eat out of vending machines and sleep in uncomfortable hospital chairs until she woke up. I felt guilty, especially if I got online or watched TV, and found myself enjoying myself. But I needed it. And your friend needs to take care of herself. She needs you right now. My friends were out of town too, and I wanted them with me so badly it hurt. But talking to them everyday helped so much-because I was taking care of my family, and didn’t want to break down with them. Friends are everything. They’re there. SOs come and go, but friends are chosen family, and they’ll be there for you no matter what. Make sure she knows it. It’ll help, trust me.

46. I’ll echo the comments on being available/non-judgmental with one caveat and one additional point.

    The caveat: This probably isn’t the case here but it can sometimes be dangerous to give DV victims written hotline numbers or pamphlets. In those cases I’ve helped clients memorize the hotline/shelter/my number. Unfortunately, when you give a victim something you have to consider how the abuser might react. Similarly, in this case, even though you think he’s a shit bag, he can’t know that. Otherwise he may prevent/punish her for meeting you.

    Additional point: Some DV victims struggle because they do love their abuser. They want to help them. They would miss them. In those cases I’ve been somewhat successful with casually wondering out loud whether the victim leaving would give the abuser the chance to get the counseling they need to really be happy. (Assumption being that the abuser isn’t happy with his own behavior, which believe it or not a good number of victims believe.). I know it may feel icky to express concern for the alcoholic shitbag, but results are results. Besides as someone noted upthread its possible he could get help and become his most charming self all the time.

47. I love this advice (from Daphne’s link above):

    What made her wake up and get out?The fact that her friends stuck by her, included her in their plans, and constantly reminded her — even without saying it outright — that she mattered.

    So tell her why you’re concerned, tell her that it’s the last time you’re going to lecture her about why you’re concerned, tell her that you will be there for her no matter what, and tell her that she better get her shoes on because you’re going to see Grease.

    I know you said you’re not as close to her anymore, in part because you live farther away with limited transportation, but whenever you do have a chance to hang out with her this might be some good advice to follow.

48. [Trigger warning added; see comment below ~ moderator]

    Helpful stuff I’ve found…I wish I could quote the source to you but it’s been to long. From actual sociological research, people in abusive relationships try to increase emotional intimacy with their abuser because if the abuse has tender feelings for them he won’t hunt them as badly. For example if the abuser feels close to his victim he will be he might slap with moderate force instead of extreme force, so she end up with bruises rather than broken bones and internal bleeding. So when a victim stays with an abuser or makes excuses or coddles an abuser the victim is trying to survive, just a like a prisoner trying to get a prison guard to like them. It’s an instinctive survival tactic, not the ridiculous self destruction it can look like from the outside. (stereotypical gender pronouns-sorry)

    Same website said routine contact is less disturbing to abusers than irregular contact. For example if you call every Wed day and Sunday evening at 7 the abuser is more likely to accept it as a fact of life, than if you just call when ever.

    This is advice stolen straight from AA, and Al Anon. If you can’t leave make practical plans to keep yourself safe. Store money and car keys in a secret place you can get to quickly and arrange with friends to stay the night on short notice if you need too.

    These are just personal ideas of places to spend one night if you don’t have friends or family near by an all night diner, the local college library, a truck stop, a hospital emergency room, a busy local train station or bus station, church, any place that’s busy with people around, driving around all night in the car of a friend who is the local security guard, anything.

49. Gah that should have a trigger warning for violence or just delete the sentence about the victims injuries.

50. Hi there,
    I don’t think you will like my advice, but I will share it anyway with the hope that it is well received, even if it is not followed.

    My daughter has been in a similar relationship. He was put in jail for trying to strangle her and she was given all kinds of victim benefits including cash and help with bills, housing, etc. Even after all this she still went back to him.

    Here is my advice: if she is intellectually aware of the situation she is in, which it sounds like she is… recommend counseling, and offer emotional support through the process. That is all you can do. She has to come to a turning point by herself. You can not help her get there, as badly as you may want to.

    I hope your friend sees the value in her self and demands better of the men she is with.

    Best,
    DebND

51. I’d echo what most others have said and emphasize trying to be “with her” in as many ways as you can. If you can, for example, get to see her and introduce her to a new potential (probably female) friend of yours (maybe someone to give you a ride to see her for example), that’s one more potential help for her not necessarily in helping her escape, but in feeling less isolated. Sending her a card – by email and snail mail – periodically, etc. You can think of other good ideas- sending her cookies or whatever she may appreciate.

    Along with these things, I think you really need to take care of yourself – as some have said. To the degree that you worry (as you obviously will!), you don’t want to – push her or push at her or indirectly drive her away by your anxieties at wanting to help her.

    Being there – isn’t easy. It’s great that you’re trying to help her. You also need to really love yourself (a little more) and continue much of what you are doing already. Good Luck – to both of you!

52. Idea: get her a copy of the book Why Does He Do That, by Lundy Bancroft. It’s been a lifesaver for many an abused person, and I sure wish it was around when I was with my abusive ex.

53. It sounds like your friend needs help with her potential exit strategy.

    I think at this point, if she is considering entrenching her relationship in other ways i.e. taking a job so that she can be closer to her bf or something, I would remind her what she is risking.

    She obviously isn’t ready to leave the relationship, but if you can help when she does, I think that’s the best bet.

54. one of the 2 needs an intervention. i’m not sure which would be most successful.

    a carefully planned intervention for the abusive alcoholic involving family and co-workers could set him on his way to sobriety. he needs to know the ‘jig is up’. but, it could also lead him to retaliate. she would need to be ready to clear out should he react negatively to the intervention.

    an intervention for the victim might get her to see how much she’s loved, but also the effects her precarious situations leave her friends, family and co-workers. they could help her seek professional counseling.

55. marydem: an intervention for the victim might get her to see how much she’s loved, but also the effects her precarious situations leave her friends, family and co-workers. they could help her seek professional counseling. marydem

    No. This is nothing more than blaming the victim. Guilt-tripping her in this way is cruel. She’s already hurting and in a situation where she feels trapped, and now you’re suggesting an “intervention” where she’s to be blamed for the feelings of her friends? Her abusive bf has already torn down her self-esteem – after all, that’s the core modus operandi of abusers – and you’re suggesting that her friends should tear her down further? How is that going to help her leave?

56. Unless she’s explicitly asked for help I think Mind Your Own Business is a good rule to follow for other peoples’ relationships.

57. one of the 2 needs an intervention. i’m not sure which would be most successful.

    I know that schadenfreude-centric reality TV has made interventions into popcorn events and pop culture has made them seem attractive, but interventions aren’t really that great of an idea. The central idea around the kind of intervention you’re talking about is using social pressure, guilt, and an artificial sense of urgency to force someone into complying with a given course of treatment. Its unethical, repulsive, and ineffective given what we know about the nature of substance abuse. Suggesting it for a DV victim is ignorant and irresponsible.

    a carefully planned intervention for the abusive alcoholic involving family and co-workers could set him on his way to sobriety. he needs to know the ‘jig is up’. but, it could also lead him to retaliate. she would need to be ready to clear out should he react negatively to the intervention.

    What you’re talking about is a public shaming. It might be satisfying to humiliate the abuser but its unlikely to do much to change the situation. In fact, its almost guaranteed to set him off. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but at some point he will punish this woman for “putting him in that situation.” He will react negatively to this stress and humiliation because he has already shown that his response to these kinds of feelings is to beat someone weaker than himself. She’ll be there because we already know that that little caviat you have at the end “she would need to be ready to clear out should he react negatively” isn’t the case. This isn’t a made-for-TV movie, this is real life with real people in real danger.

    an intervention for the victim might get her to see how much she’s loved, but also the effects her precarious situations leave her friends, family and co-workers. they could help her seek professional counseling.

    So what you’re saying is that, because this woman is in an abusive relationship, has had her personal support system damaged, and her self esteem torn down we should stage an intervention. This will be helpful because it will “show her how much she’s loved” by showing her how much staying in this relationship hurts people close to her. Again, the core dynamic of the intervention remains the same: humiliation. You’re talking about emotionally manipulating a domestic violence victim in order to coerce them into leaving an unsafe situation. You’re suggesting taking what little control she still has over her life away from her. You’re talking about leaving her completely powerless and dependent upon others. You’re talking about staging a situation in which she is made to feel guilty for being a victim because her being victimized hurts her family, friends, and (seriously here, what the fuck is wrong with you) coworkers? Because this isn’t about the victim, its about the burden she places on others by allowing herself to continue to be abused, right?

58. When someone in my life was in a similar situation, we all told her at different times, “Any time you need us, we are here” and “I hope you know that if you need a place to go to, my home is open to you” and “I want you to know that we are here for you to support you.”

    I’m seconding the suggestion to read Why Does He Do That. Lundy Bancroft did a fantastic job not only showing how anyone can get sucked into an abusive situation (they don’t start off that way on day one) but the sometimes subtle and manipulative way abusers work. He also demolished a lot of myths about abuse/abusers.

59. Tamara: Unless she’s explicitly asked for help I think Mind Your Own Business is a good rule to follow for other peoples’ relationships.  

    You say it like they’re having an argument about whether they should move or one of them should give up their jobs, in which case, yeah, MYOFB. But this isn’t the case. He’s abusing her. He is committing a crime. When you see someone getting mugged, is it ethical not to do something? No, you fucking call the cops. Since it sounds like this isn’t an option, giving the victim resources she needs to get herself out of there (i.e. a place to stay) without making her feel awful for being victimized is the ethical choice.

    Mind your own business about domestic violence victims? Classy.

60. I went through this with a friend who dated assholes – one on and off for ten years. Each time she would go through cycles, and we’d stop speaking for months. Eventually things got so bad that she had to call me to come get her from a terrible situation in which she had to sneak elsewhere to call the cops. What finally got to her was that I was there for her every – single – time. She totally blamed herself for all of it until I read the definition and signs of physical and emotional abuse.

    It happened again recently with a new guy, but this time she had the nerve to stand up and walk away from him the moment he started pressuring her. She decided that she was worth more than what he was willing to put her through, even if she had to start all over again.

    It is hard to stick by and watch loved ones go through such torment, but they do come around sometimes.

61. I’ve only just seen this post, and in addition to the great advice that’s already been given (I’d definitely second getting her a copy of the Lundy Bancroft book), there’s also a great forum for women affected by domestic abuse on the Women’s Aid (a UK domestic abuse charity) website – http://www.womensaid.org.uk. The forum has been a huge help to me personally, because it enabled me to see my relationship through the eyes of others, to take a step back, and see that in the long-run the relationship was going to do me far more harm than good. Because it’s something that your friend can dip in and out of whenever she wants (she doesn’t even need to post – just reading about other people’s experiences can be an enormous help), she can do things at her own pace, remain in control, and not feel like she is burdening you or her friends/relatives (I know this was a big worry for me). I really hope that she manages to get out of the situation – she’s lucky to have a good, understanding friend in you.

62. Pingback: Feministe Feedback: Help for a friend in an abusive relationship « Male Ally

63. I second kt, but with some points. Some times people that work on domestic violence tent to forget that Feminisms is not the only tool we have to deal with this situation and that some times a multidisciplinary approach is useful. As long as she is in the abusive system feminism probably has a good probality to help her out. but we need to realize that we don’t even know if he actually fits the feminist model of an abuser. This by example is false in a lot of cases: “people who are abusive and alcoholic are still abusive even after they’ve gotten treatment for the alcohol problem.”
    But this should NOT be about him, but about HER safety.

    EmmaSofia: she doesn’t choose to get into abusive relationships, as “personal statement” seems to be implying. i suspect she fell in love because it’s really good, when it’s good, and the abuse didn’t start right away. after listening to her and believing her, which you’re clearly doing, some concrete things you can do are reiterate how you feel about her situation: “i’m scared for you,” “i’m worried about you,” “i know he can be a great guy, but that doesn’t give him the right to treat you this way,” “it’s not your fault.” f

    That is an excellent question after she is free, not before because she don’t need more self-blame. I know my words are controversial and not trying to get into Erin Pizzey position. But if we do care about woman, we have to point out that her behavior is not healthy, and that is not a result of patriarchy . We all live in patriarchy, but not all of us exhibit such a dangerous set of symptoms.

64. Thank you all for the advice. I am happy to report that it is no longer needed. They broke up.

    Hooray!

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