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I *Heart* Oprah. And Bras.

No, I really do. And now she celebrates 20 years. I like her because she seems normal; she isn’t conventionally pretty (although I happen to think she’s really gorgeous), she’s outspoken and opinionated, and she seems unafraid to do things her own way. She came up from poverty to become one of the most successful women in the world, and one of the first familiar African-American faces on television. Unlike most other celebrities, she doesn’t take freebies — everything she wears and owns she purchases on her own. And she uses her celebrity status to do a lot of good.

For every crass audience give-away (last year she gave a new car, donated by Pontiac, to each of her 276 audience members), her show matches it with a call to alms. Almost all talk shows raised money for tsunami and Katrina victims. Ms. Winfrey makes a point of also embracing less obvious causes. The collection includes snippets from several segments that Ms. Winfrey did on obstetric fistula in Ethiopia, where many young women who give birth too young are left with internal holes that leave them trickling bodily wastes and shunned by their families.

Ms. Winfrey interviewed an elderly Australian obstetrician-gynecologist, Dr. Catherine Hamlin, who has been performing fistula surgery on tens of thousands of young Ethiopian women for more than 30 years. Until Nicholas D. Kristof wrote a column in The New York Times about their fate in 2003, only Australian newspapers and European medical journals paid much attention to those women. Ms. Winfrey’s show – and subsequent visit to the clinic in Addis Ababa – introduced the subject to millions of viewers, instantly raising public awareness as well as $2.2 million in donations to date. To her credit, Ms. Winfrey admits that she resisted doing the story until a stubborn producer told her she knew “in her soul” that this was a cause worthy of Oprah-giving. (Apparently, employees of her company invoke their souls when they want the boss’s full attention.)

To date, she’s also one of the only public figures who has spoken openly about living through sexual abuse. Breaking the silence about such a stigmatized issue is definitely laudable. And as much as I mock “Oprah’s Book Club” books, she get millions of people reading — hell, she single-handedly got John Steinbeck back on the NYT best-seller list. She introduced millions of “average” people who may otherwise lack an interest in literature to Toni Morrison and Maya Angelou. Right now, she has her book club reading “A Million Little Pieces.” That’s something.

I know a lot of people have complaints about Oprah, and I’m not trying to prop her up as a perfect feminist icon. She’s not. But then, she’s never really claimed to be. She does, though, take women’s lives seriously. While “frivolous” female things may garner a lot of attention on her show, and are easy to write off as fluffy and silly, the truth is that all people indulge in the unnecessary. See Lindsay Beyerstein, in a somewhat unrelated (but thoroughly fantastic) post:

It’s also important to ask how irrelevant gender stereotypes blind us to relevant similarities between superficially different behavior patterns. Who gets called frivolous, and what for? Usually, we associate frivolity with gossip, fashion magazines, and giggling. But if we think about what frivolity is and why it’s bad, it’s clear that men are equally prone to this vice. Frivolity is an excessive and/or situationally inappropriate preoccupation with amusing trivia. There’s nothing inherently gendered about the concept. Yet, a guy is unlikely to be dismissed as frivolous if he’s excessively preoccupied with poker, sports stats, or horse race politics.

So, long story short, I like Oprah because she explores human experiences from her own perspective; she isn’t afraid to recognize that our lives are complex, and can include the political as well as the fun; and she’s broken down a lot of barriers. So cheers to her.

If you’re around today, check out her show — it’s all about bras, and my best friend from Seattle‘s mom is going to be on as the bra expert (that’s right, I buy my bras from the Oprah bra expert. Amazing). While you’re at it, go get fitted. I see people walking around all the time in ill-fitting bras, and it just looks painful (something like 80% if women wear the wrong size bra). Wearing the wrong size bra can cause back pain, muscle tension, headaches, and all kinds of other bad stuff. Even if you’ve been fitted before, go and get re-sized if it’s been a while, especially if you’ve lost or gained any weight (I was the same size for years, and when I got re-sized a few weeks ago I went down a full size in my ribcage measurement. That’s just the way it goes sometimes. Now my new bras fit better). If you don’t want a stranger to size you, get out a tape measure and figure it out yourself: wear a non-padded, well-fitting bra and measure around your ribcage, directly under your breasts. Add 5 inches, and that’s your rib cage size (32, 34, 36, etc). If you’re an odd size (like 33), go up one. Then measure around the fullest part of your chest. If the difference between your breast measurement and your ribcage measurement is less than 1 inch, you’re an AA. If it’s one inch it’s an A, two inches is a B, three inches is a C, and so forth. If you can, though, it’s worth getting fitted professionally, as they can help with bra strap length and style of bra that’s right for you. Department stores that are more focused on customer service, like Nordstrom and Bloomingdale’s, and speciality lingerie stores (but please no Victoria’s Secret) are going to be your best bet.

And this is just my two cents (really, what isn’t?) but it’s worth it to invest in high-quality bras. I’m a big Natori fan — they fit well, they’re pretty and comfortable, and they’re invisible under t-shirts. For women with bigger busts, I’ve heard good things about Wacoal, and the Nordstrom website carries them up to size I. Bras should be hand-washed or put in a mesh lingerie bag before you put them in the washing machine on the gentle cycle. Never put them in the dryer.

Or you could just do what I do and go braless much of the time.


49 thoughts on I *Heart* Oprah. And Bras.

  1. Lane Bryant (the plus-size store) also has great bras (Cacique) for larger-breasted women. I believe they serve 36-46B-DDD, with some variations depending on the specific style. They will also measure you upon request.
    http://www.lanebryant.com

  2. My mom saw this show and took herself out to get remeasured and such. She also went to VS to get whatever that new bra is. I finally got some great fitting, pretty bras seeing as I’m a DD. Usually I have to foresake prettiness to get support which can make bra shopping kind of depressing.

    However, us large chested women can’t go braless because it’s way obvious (think Eudora Welty). And after having a kid, my boobs are no longer where they used to be.

  3. Delurking to confirm that getting a professional bra fitting is like a revelation. I was in Nordstroms for something else, but on a whim decided to get a fitting. Holy crap – I’d been wearing the wrong band size (too big) AND the wrong cup size (too small) for YEARS. Finally, my boobs look normal in a bra. Who knew?

  4. Hugo, I’m not saying you’re slow, but having watched Hedwig and the Angry Inch was all it took to teach me…. πŸ˜‰

  5. i too had the revelatory re-sizing a few months ago. eureka! who knew bras didn’t have to pinch?

    i need to get one of those mesh bags, because i really hate bothering with the handwashing.

    and jill, just curious, but what do you have against victoria’s secret? is is something particular, or just a general disdain for the pinkest place in the universe?

  6. I like Oprah except for one thing: She brought Dr. Phil to national attention.

    Friends of mine enjoy watching him as he demolishes some poor person suffering through grief or depression because it is obvious that he has no freaking clue what he is doing or what his mostly female victims are going through. “Oh get over it,” seems to be the only thing he is able to say. I certainly would not go to a therapist like that and he is counter-indicated because his “wisdom” can be so destructive to the recovery of people undergoing depression.

    It hurts, dammit. And no bald-headed yokel is going to pull a real depressive out of his mood. I wonder how many of DP’s patients have committed suicide because of his pressure or simply gone on to another therapist before he crushed them entirely? That would be very very interesting to know….

  7. Yeah, I really hate Dr. Phil. If I have to hear him say “You need to get real with yourself” one more time, I might die.

    and jill, just curious, but what do you have against victoria’s secret? is is something particular, or just a general disdain for the pinkest place in the universe?

    I have a bit of a lingerie fetish, and VS bothers me because it’s really poorly made. They use terrible fabrics, and everything is made cheaply and exploitatively in sweatshops. It’s basically K-Mart quality, but really over-priced. If something is going to spend all day next to your naked skin, it should feel good, especially if you’re dropping $50 or $60 on it. Their fits are also off. Admittedly, though, I do buy my 5 for $25 cotton underwear there. I just have a personal vendetta against them. No offense meant, of course, to anyone who shops at and/or enjoys VS.

  8. Re: Victoria’s Secret

    Their bras are definitely “Vanity sized” — about everyone I know wears a slightly large bra from Vicky’s than from anywhere else. That said, you can get the same damn bras at Target under the Gilligan and O’Malley name. And they no longer sell bras for $20 or so at their semi-annual sales; they are now up around $20 or so. As someone who uses them for costuming purposes (read: I end up cutting them up and using mostly just the cups), that is a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a bra.

    Then again, I refuse to spend $50 or $60 on a bra categorically.

  9. Bras – don’t wear them myself but I like those that do. And I like the act of putting them on and taking them off. They are only a nuisance when I’m reaching, wet faced, for a towel only to find one slung over it. Oh well.

    I remember Oprah on a show back in the eighties with three women reporters, heavy hitters, like Diane Sawyer. On each topic the news women gave thoughful, analytic opinions and Oprah said how she felt about it. I thought the woman was stupid. About two weeks later I learned she was the richest person in television.

  10. I harbor a grudge against VS, because years ago I went to one of their stores and asked if they carried a 32DD, and the sales person laughed at me. I mean, she literally laughed, and then she said “no” in a way that conveyed “what kind of freak wears a 32DD?” So this freak doesn’t shop there anymore, even though I think they now have some bras in my size. The only time I’ve had a bra salesperson say something worse to me was when I was 15, and a woman at a department store told my mother that I should consider surgery because my breasts were “a medical problem.” Because every 15-year-old needs to hear that her body issues are rational and require surgical intervention!

    I spend a lot of money on bras. It’s worth it for me. It might not be worth it for someone with smaller and/or perkier breasts, though.

    And I have no opinion on Oprah, because I’m not home when she’s on.

  11. Holy crap – I’d been wearing the wrong band size (too big) AND the wrong cup size (too small) for YEARS. Finally, my boobs look normal in a bra. Who knew?

    No kidding. I took the money from redesigning Bitch Ph.D.’s website and got new bras ( figured she’d be pleased with that). I found out I was wearing bras with the bands too large and the cups too small. Now I don’t mind wearing them. I’d go without, but you know the deal with teen boys. Must wear bras while teaching.

    On Oprah: I am a shameless Oprah watcher. For all the crap she’s been given over the years, she is one person on television that takes the power she has and puts it to good use — exposing vital issues and getting masses of people to contribute to world causes and epidemics is a movement I can get behind, even if she is still doing stupid celebrity interviews.

  12. thanks for all the thoughts on VS. lacking much knowledge about (or the funds for) speciality shops, i’ve kinda gone to vicky’s as a default, but i’d consider branching out – especially after reading about the roots of the chain in Backlash last summer (yes, i only just read Backlash this past summer, i’m ashamed to admit).

    now here’s a question, though – if vicky’s does vanity sizing, and i got sized at vicky’s, will i have to be resized at each new place i try? is this like jeans shopping but with bras??

    i’m exhausted just thinking about it.

  13. Oprah is lousy. Every one of her shows is tilted to her liberal POV. And have you ever noticed no one is around to argue against her? Oh well, at least she doesn’t attempt to portray her show as objective. You know when you turn it on that it’s just more liberal, bleeding heart B.S.

    The problem is that she tries to portray herself as a Champion of the Poor and Downtrodden. Yeah right. How many brand new cars did she give away to audience members? Why didn’t she arrange for her sponsors to give those cars to poor families who needed them? I e-mailed her about that. No response. How about that? We’ve got pregnant crackheads, Vietnam Vets sleeping in the snow, and retired people choosing between their prescriptions or paying their electric bill. What does Oprah do? Gives cars away, millions of dollars’ worth of them, to her audience members.

    She sucks. I wish she would get canceled and die.

  14. Delurking to say: how hilarious, there’s a spontaneous bra meme going around! I wrote a whole post about going to Nordstroms and getting fitted and finding out I was a different — and bigger! — size than I thought I was. And then the blogger Tiruncula link to it and talked about her favorite places to get bras. And my post (and the experience it’s about) was inspired by Bitch Ph.D., of course. Sorry for the self-promotion, but I think it’s funny — and great — that we’re all talking about bras and so is Oprah!

    Anyway, I whole-heartedly second the dissing of VS. They have a limited range of sizes and they’ll try and convince you you’re a different size just so they can sell you a bra. And they don’t last.

    (Btw, I love your comment interface! Awesome!)

  15. I harbor a grudge against VS, because years ago I went to one of their stores and asked if they carried a 32DD, and the sales person laughed at me. I mean, she literally laughed, and then she said β€œno” in a way that conveyed β€œwhat kind of freak wears a 32DD?”

    I’m with you. I went in and asked for a 38D years ago and was treated very dismissively and they didn’t have any in that size. The whole place coddles to a limited Playboy model range of sizes, right down to the nightgowns. Also, Jill’s right about the cheap sweatshop labor – check out http://www.victoriasdirtysecret.net.

  16. How many brand new cars did she give away to audience members? Why didn’t she arrange for her sponsors to give those cars to poor families who needed them?

    My, how bleeding heart of you.

  17. The problem is that she tries to portray herself as a Champion of the Poor and Downtrodden. Yeah right. How many brand new cars did she give away to audience members? Why didn’t she arrange for her sponsors to give those cars to poor families who needed them? I e-mailed her about that. No response. How about that? We’ve got pregnant crackheads, Vietnam Vets sleeping in the snow, and retired people choosing between their prescriptions or paying their electric bill. What does Oprah do? Gives cars away, millions of dollars’ worth of them, to her audience members.

    No! Not a frivolous, self-aggrandizing television personality who does publicity stunts in addition to charity work! How does she sleep at night?

    And I cannot fucking believe she didn’t answer your email. Fuck, man. That’s just beyond the fucking pale.

  18. Kate:
    Take the sizing information above and measure yourself (or to be really accurate, have a friend do the measuring). Be sure to wear a well fitting, supportive, NON-padded or hard cup bra for that. That should give you a really good idea of your true size. Also be aware that there are approximately equivelent cup sizes. For example: a 34 B is more or less equivelent to a 32 C, or a 36 A. You might want to try a couple of different sizes to get your best fit, as everyone’s ribcage is constructed a little differently, and frankly, measurements can lie. πŸ™‚

    Re: Vicky’s
    I find that the measurements taken at Vicky’s are more or less accurate, and the sizing *information* to be accurate, but the bra cups themselves to be a tad on the smallish side in “payload”, as it were. As if their models had their measurements taken *without* wearing a supportive bra.

    OK, I officially spend WAAAY too much time dealing with bras in my professional life! πŸ˜‰

  19. One other tip on self-measuring.

    Many (most) manufacturers say that once you hit 33″ as your *actual* rib measurement, you start only adding 3″ rather than 5″.

    So — if you’re 33″ around the ribs and 40″ around the bust, you are *not* a 38B, you are a 36D.

    I also have noticed the vanity sizing phenomenon. A 36D from Victoria’s Secret or Wonderbra is just.too.small. And they don’t sell many/any DDs. Meanwhile, Playtex sizes large, so people can say they’re not quite as big as they are. I measured out at a 34D at Lane Bryant (with their special measuring tape) though I found the 36C’s fit wonderfully. And they make a real push-up bra in D cups and above.

  20. I’ve always had problems getting sized at deparment stores. I’ve also found no department store that carries my size (38J). I generally go to a professional sizer and buy custom-made bras.

    If you are in Minneapolis, I highly recommend Bravo Bras. It’s a great place to get sized and buy your bras.

  21. I really have to agree with all of the Victoria’s Secret complaints. I went looking for 38DD, and they just laughed. I have ordered from them online, where they usually have a better selection, and fairly comfortable bras, but not THAT comfortable, so it’s a rarity. And I probably won’t buy from them again after learning about the sweatshop labor thing – thanks for the enlightenment!

    Lane Bryant really does sell the most comfortable bras that I’ve ever found. Love ’em. Even though I don’t shop there for anything else, their bras are the best to be found. Unfortunately, I’m picky about bras, and will wear nothing but cotton. It’s becoming a little easier to find cotton bras than it was a few years ago, but still difficult. But, again, Lane Bryant carries them.

    But according to your sizing guidelines, I should really be a 42C?? I find that hard to believe… Maybe I really should get remeasured? What’s with the add 5 (or is it 3?) part? I don’t think I ever knew that before.

  22. If anyone wears a D cup or larger, I highly highly highly reccomend buying bras from Layne Bryant. Before I got fitted there I used to have really horrible back problems, but just getting the right size and cut of bra for my body shape has been a lifesaver. I introduced my girlfriend to them because she used to wear cheap Target bras that never fit properly and she is extatic about them too. Seriously. I cannot say enough good things about Layne Bryant bras.

    Also the Layne Bryant ones are so much more durable then the VS ones. I’ve had a black LB bra for almost two years now and the wire is just starting to poke out, where as I was lucky to get a year out of my VS bras before they went to shit.

  23. Laurie,
    Random question here, but since you said you use the cups for costuming purposes: is it for belly dancing costuming? Just got back from class so I have it on the brain, and I was just curious.

  24. Oh, and here’s another bra tip… I learned this from a chiropractor. He said that the bras most of us wear are the worst ones for us. What is best for your back and posture are actually the racerback ones (you know that crisscross across your back) because they distribute the weight of your breasts more evenly and force you to have better posture.

  25. I seem to have heard the “add only 3″ if you are above x size” for ribcage measurement before, but it did slip my mind. That said, if you have a broad-ish back (like I do) you might *want* the extra couple of inches.

    Unfortunately for some of us, racerback bras hit the muscle that runs along the top of the shoulder (trapezus? Cripes, where’s my anatomy book?!?) in just *exactly* the wrong way, prompting nasty, nasty muscular headaches. πŸ™

    Glad to hear about Lane Bryant, though — I’ll have to check them out. And Bravo Bras ROCKS! At least, according to some of my clients they do. I have heard that the bras tend to be of the “industrial strength/not so pretty” sort, though. Y’know, I GET the industrial strength bit — some sets of breasts just need more support than others — but can’t they at least make them in pretty colors?!? It’s not like there’s a LACK of women who need larger bra sizes, at least not up here in Scandinavia-West!

    Re: Vicky’s, again
    They couldn’t find a 38DD? Odd, they used to carry them. Apparently they treated all of us busty-er gals poorly enough that we just stopped shopping there…. Bleah!

  26. KMarissa:

    Why yes, yes I DO use said bras in belly dance costuming! πŸ™‚ How did you guess? Are you from Minneapolis?

    I also do custom wedding gowns and special occasion gowns (and alterations), and you would not BELIEVE the trouble I have getting women to wear the correct kind of bras for those garments! Ladies: a strapless wedding gown needs correct undergarments, or it is just NOT going to be fun to wear. Strapless lycra bodyshapers with underwired “cups” do NOTHING to help support the girls. Strapless bras are damned near useless in most cases. The stick on cups are interesting, but not recommended for more than 4 hours of wear at a time (due to the adhesive) AND probably won’t be helpful if you are over a B cup. Wear a boned, underwired, long line bra if you want to look perky and cleavageful in these kinds of gowns. Period. End of rant. πŸ˜‰

    Good grief — I DO know too much about this kind of thing. What a sad, sad life I lead…. πŸ˜‰

  27. For women with bigger busts, I’ve heard good things about Wacoal, and the Nordstrom website carries them up to size I.

    Robert, look away.

    I got measured not too long ago and found out I was a 40H. Jesus Christ, I had to lie down after that. I’d been told I was a 42DDD, which is at least in the neighborhood of normal, but no — I was wearing too small a cup and too large a band.

    I also think the adding 3 inches thing is bullshit, because my ribcage measures 40 inches.. And that’s my band size.

    BTW, the Town Shop is the greatest bra store EVAH! You also need to seek out the NPR program that interviewed the 95-year-old former owner of the place (she’s since died, and the NYT obit mentioned that she was a 34 C). She was so perfectly Brooklyn. “People get so upset. It’s just a brassiere.”

    Oprah? I have issues with her because she unleashed Gayle King upon the world. We thought we had it bad in Hartford having to watch her on the news, and then Oprah went and gave her her own show, and Gayle’s head got even bigger.

  28. Re: the add 3-5 inches thing: Click on the Nordtrom link and they’ll give you a better indication of what size you be. When you get up into larger sizes, it’s less than 5 inches.

    That said, I sure am jealous of you people who have breasts. Good lord. I have a 27-inch ribcage, making me a 32B, and boy do I want some boobs. I know, I know, “love your body” and all that, but jesus… share the wealth.

    Now onto more important things.

  29. That said, I sure am jealous of you people who have breasts.

    No, you’re not. Trust me, you’re not.

    If you think you are, walk around with a couple of pork loins strapped to your chest and see how it makes your back feel.

    Or show an inch of cleavage and have strange men either drool on you or tell you you’re a slut.

    Just to give you some perspective, each letter is an inch increase in the band measurement. So my boobs are 8″ more than my band size. They’re fucking heavy, they’re hard to dress, and they get stared at, if not grabbed at (because I no longer go to places, like Webster Hall, where they’re likely to get grabbed).

    So, forgive me if it’s late, I’m tired, and I say fuck you.

  30. Jill:
    I’d LOVE to send you some of mine, seriously. I say to my smaller breasted clients all the time: It’s easier to pad/paint/fluff/fake a small set into something larger/better presented than it is to engineer proper support for the larger sets. Besides, gravity does less damage to yours over time. πŸ™‚

    BTW, just a bit of trivia — every women’s clothing pattern, for ready to wear or for making your own clothes, is drafted for a B cup (of the ribcage size they used, as cup size is a relative thing). So bigger gals like myself either have to buy up a size or two and risk everything else being WAAAAY too big, or if we get our correct size based on the rest of our torso, we get gaps and wierd wrinkles, and guys staring at our chests. Or we end up living in knits, which tends to draw the same sort of attention.

    I used to be a 34B. I miss that body…. But I blame my genetics. German and Swedish genes in one’s background tend to translate as “healthy” and “sturdy” in one’s body type. πŸ˜‰

  31. zuzu:

    – If you think you are, walk around with a couple of pork loins strapped to your chest and see how it makes your back feel.

    I had to chuckle at this — the description is PERFECT, and with your permission, I will use it on my smaller breasted clients who complain. I have to assume that many of them just don’t think about that non-muscle tissue having weight without actual support, and the ramifications thereof. A visual like that should drive the point home nicely. I promise, I’ll only pull it out for the ones who really, really complain chronically.

    Seriously, though, I get your reasons for not being ecstatic about having large breasts. It’s bad enough having to wear industrial grade bras in the heat of the summer without having jerks make cracks about your body, too. Or talk to your cleavage instead of you, directly. Good luck with the new bra sizing — hopefully it will make a difference in your comfort levels.

  32. You’re drunk on a Tuesday night? Can I have whatever class schedule you have that allows you to do that, please?

  33. Ok, I have now watched the Oprah show, and all I can say is: what was up with all the fondling? I think Arnold Schwatznegger got in serious trouble for similar behavior. I know Oprah was excited about the pretty, pretty bras, but did she seriously have to grope those poor women?

    I think the boob size thing is a real grass-is-always-greener issue. I would love to be a B-cup, but I assume that’s because I haven’t ever really considered the drawbacks. Mostly, I think it kind of messed me up to get huge boobs really young. They’re kind of an inconvenience now, but when I was 12, I really felt like a freak of nature.

  34. Y’know, this sorta post is really rather useful. Just sayin’.

    Anyway, since we seem to have a passel o’ bra/boobage experts hanging around here…any advice for weird boobs? I always thought I was a B (I don’t stick out much, and the breast isn’t large enough to ‘fold’ and sit on my chest) and, dislikeing wires and hooks, wore all in one lyrca-type bras. However, being dragged into a proper lingerie shop by my mom, the nice sales lady hemmed and hawed and said I was actually a D.

    Now here’s the tricky bit.

    While a D size cup is comfortable where it sits ‘around’ and beneath the breast (no digging, pinching, etc)…I don’t fill out the cup. At all. I have the footprint of a D and the volume of a B…and so I persist in wearing lycra-style, no underwire bras because they’re the most comfortable thing available.

    Soo…any ideas what’s going on here? (If it helps any, I have a very round, almost circular boob shape).

  35. Laurie,
    Not Minneapolis, nope. I’m sure there are plenty of other uses for bra cups in costuming, but that was the only one with which I was familiar.

    You might be able to help me out, though. I’m in a very beginner student troupe, and we wear cholis as the tops for our costumes. So, we can wear pretty much any bra under those things, but I’m having a heck of a time finding one that isn’t a sports bra but provides enough strap-em-down support so that I can shoulder shimmy without the girls flying all around. Any ideas on which bras are the most supportive and…uh… subduing?

    Thanks! And sorry to get off-topic, but I thought that might be permissible on this thread πŸ˜‰

  36. Jill, I apologize for snapping at you. I’d had a shitty day, and this is a touchy subject for me. Particularly since the boobs are relatively new — I’ve always been chesty, but for some reason when I gained some weight a few years ago, it went disproportionately to my breasts. So now, to add to the joy of limited clothing options, there are now approximately two places in Manhattan I can buy bras, one of which mismeasured me the last time I was in there. The other doesn’t exactly have a wide selection, but at least they fit me correctly for the $100 bras.

    Crossing the Rubicon of the D cup range has made me feel even more freakish than usual.

    Really, I enjoy being a girl.

  37. Are bra sizes variable across brand and price the way most women’s clothing is? I really notice the male privilege stuff that comes with clothes: a 34″ waist is consistently close to 34″. The cut and fit may differ slightly, but basically, sizing is objective for men. Are bra sizes reliable, or are they like dress sizes, where the same woman may wear a different size depending on the label and the price tag?

  38. Bra sizes are less variable than the sizes on other women’s clothes. There’s some vanity sizing, and some bras run a little big or small, but there’s actually an industry standard, and manufacturers generally adhere to it. Cup sizes are a bit more variable than band sizes. I wear a 32, and I don’t think I’ve ever bought a bra in anything but a 32.

  39. There is a standard, but once you get into the larger cup sizes, there’s more variability. The cup size is supposed to represent a proportional relationship between ribcage circumference and circumference across the widest point of the bust (A = 1″ difference, B = 2″ difference, and so on). Once you go past D, though, the system breaks down. Some manufacturers go D-DD-E-F, some skip the E entirely, for some DD=E, and so on. So I can wear anything from an F to an H, depending on manufacturer.

  40. Zuzu, my sympathies. My grandmother and my sister are both slight women with very large breasts. (Scots. I wonder if empirically, larger bust size in proportion to waist is actually statistically significant among Scots.) So, I’m aware of the downsides.

  41. Wondering:
    Sorry to leave you hanging for so long — internet access was flakey today, and I can just now access things consistently. πŸ˜›

    So, you have the wide based breast thing going on? Yup, that happens! πŸ™‚ (I actually have most of a lecture on bra fitting worked up for belly dancers, since costume bra fit is *crucial* and breasts come in all sorts of lovely shapes and sizes. I discuss the difference between wide based and narrow based breasts in it. πŸ™‚

    You might consider trying a demi-bra, one of the ones with the cups that are sort of just the lower half to two-thirds of a “normal” bra cup. That might help counteract the “not filling the whole thing” phenomenon. A push up style bra might also help by filling in the bottom of the cup so you can fill in the top. Also useful might be a totally soft cup (no underwire) bra with a little padding. I’d think that would be the most comfortable option if you don’t typically wear underwires.

    Let me know what actually works for you! It’s good to have this info in my arsenal!

    KMarissa:
    Cholis are FANTASTIC for inexpensive but cool looking performance wear! I take it you are wearing the kind with the solid back — the strappy backed ones look REALLY cool, too, but are difficult to wear for anyone with, um…. more than just minimal boobage. πŸ™‚

    I’d suggest a hard cup underwire bra, either with or without push up as you see fit. I used to like the low end Vicky’s bras for wearing under dance dresses, but even a relatively inexpensive one from Target or JC Penny’s (or the equivalent) will work as long as the cups stand up by themselves. Use grosgrain ribbon to either stabilize or totally replace the stretchy straps. (E-mail me privately if you need help figuring out how to do this.) Because the straps on regular bras are stretchy, they allow for movement/bounce to work down from the shoulders into the less anatomically well supported breast area. Stabilizing those straps will help a LOT, although just switching to a hard cup bra will also help. You can’t keep them from moving at all, but you CAN keep them from being an audience distraction. πŸ˜‰

    You might also check out Dawn Devine Brown’s book on decorating costume bras — she has some good basic info in there. Her website is http://www.davina.org.

    Good luck, and happy dancing!

    Note: if either of you (or anyone else really) would like to e-mail me off-thread with questions, I’ve put my website address into the appropriate box with this post. You can e-mail me privately from there through my business e-mail. Glad to be of help!

  42. Laurie – Is cool, totally understandable πŸ™‚

    That’s all sounding pretty useful advice there, thanks. I probably should have added that I’m quite happy with the all in one bras I have, but I am looking at investing in something more suited to a dressier outfit.

    I have softcup – fabric, not moulded foam stuff – underwire which is a more halfcup style, which would be why I ‘fill out’ that one a bit more – so the advice seems spot on there! (I don’t wear it due to strap issues, so it languishes in my ‘stuff to mend’ box, heh)

    I shall keep in mind the info about push up bras too – not my style, but I know 3 costumes where I’m gonna need one πŸ™‚

    So thanks! Very helpful. (I shall remember the ‘wide based breast’ descriptor too – may help with the salespeople)

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