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Thursday LOST Roundtable: Across the Sea

Spoilers below!

A close-up photo of the Man in Black with blood and bruises on his face.

This week on LOST, we learned more about Jacob, MIB, and the mysteries of the island. Read our discussion below and add your own thoughts and theories in the comments, just be sure not to include spoilers to the last 3.5 hours of LOST!

A lot happened in this episode! General thoughts and reactions?

CARA: I … actually thought this episode was pretty awful, all around. It answered little, was largely ridiculous, and contained some really bad writing — which surprised me, since for all of my other beefs with them Damon and Carlton are usually really good writers, and the scripts they personally write are usually the best. I am also just terribly confused about what actually happened, but not in a good/excited kind of way. I’ve seen mixed reactions, though, and the thing is that I really wanted to like it, in spite of my continued bitterness from last week. So I’m interested to see what everyone else thought.

SADY: About the fact that LOST gave us a “Mists of Avalon” spin-off episode? With a cave of magic light that explains everything/nothing? And a scary Bad Mommy who killed the Good Mommy oh PS also they can’t die or kill each other but DON’T ASK HOW MORGAINE LE JANNEY GAINS HER WITCHING POWERS! And also Jacob being revealed to be like the worst actor and enunciating everything like just the biggest man-baby on earth, and his brother Blergdrflagghn being a SIMILARLY bad actor who makes the most ridiculous EMOTION FACE! ever and and and… I wasn’t fond, basically, is my answer. NOT! FOND!

SALLY: I enjoyed the episode as I was watching it, though it got worse as it went on. By the time it ended, I thought I didn’t like it anymore, but looking back now, I did enjoy it. The pace was good, the writing wasn’t great, as you said, but I think we did got to know more about these two mysterious figures. It wasn’t as good as, say, the Richard episode, but it was certainly better than a lot of the other episodes this season. Maybe that’s what they’re hoping for? That we’re so let down by some of the other episodes that we’ll enjoy this one? I don’t know, but if so, it worked for me, because I wasn’t too upset about it.

JILL: I’m not sure if I love or hate LOST for giving us a third-to-last episode with NONE OF THE MAJOR CHARACTERS IN IT. The episode itself annoyed me, but I’m still deciding if I think that move was brilliant or infuriating.

CARA: I think it would have been brilliant if the episode itself was good. I also just need a place to say this, so I’m saying it here: the MIB not having a name thing is just utterly ridiculous, at this point. And their explanation for him not having a name is the fact that his birth mother didn’t think of one, because she didn’t know she was having twins? And no one ever thought to name this person for 40 years? Even though he was his mother’s favorite? Right. Well then.

JILL: He must have a name, we just haven’t learned it yet. The writers are maintaining the What’s His Name?! thing to make us all, I dunno, desperate to find out his name?

But the biggest shock of the episode for me was how stupid Jacob was! They worked so hard to make him seem wise and all-knowing in earlier episodes, and then we find out that he’s totally intellectually incurious, and kind of a dumbass. While MIB is all, “How did we get here? Where do people come from? Magnets: How do they work?” Jacob is just like, “I like yarn!”

SALLY: LMFAO!

LAUREN: GOD, Jacob is a whiny ass baby compared to MiB, who was easily the most sympathetic character last night — an interesting move considering how hard the production team worked to convince us that MiB is evil, all evil, through and through evil, evil to the core evil, would kill off our favorite characters last week evil. I really don’t care about some of the more detailed mysteries, like MiB’s name or who Adam and Eve were, so the explanations or lack thereof are whatever. What I want to know is how the island and all its unusual phenomena, like the electromagnetic and time bending qualities, fits into the bigger picture. I feel like these are the things that will ultimately tie the characters’ stories in with one another, but we still haven’t gotten a lot of explanation on any of the science-y questions.

SADY: Oh my GOD is Jacob ever a baby. I’m not sure if I was MEANT to laugh hilariously when he was all, “No it DOESN’T! You wanted it to be HIM! Get out of my MYSTICAL ISLAND CAVE OF MYSTICAL MAGICAL ENCHANTMENT, MOMMMMMMM, I just want to listen to my Enya records ALOOOONNE,” but… I did. I DID! I was unmoved throughout by Jacob.

This week, we’re introduced to Nameless Lady who kills Jacob and MIB’s mother and then raises them as her own. What’s up with this woman?

JILL: CJ CREGG!! I love love love Allison Janney. I kept expecting her to start yelling at her kids like she yelled at Toby. But that isn’t really what you’re asking, is it? I’m not sure we’re going to get an explanation of who she is or how she came to the island.

CARA: Replacing one mysterious character whose existence and powers are wholly unexplained with a different mysterious character whose existence and powers are wholly unexplained! Yay!

SALLY: Allison Janney is pretty damn awesome. I guess my big question once the episode was over (knowing that the chances of us encountering her or her story again are quite close to zero) was where her powers come from and how, if they aren’t actually her children, Jacob and MIB ended up with powers as well? MIB can see ghosts and apparently doesn’t die all that easily. We know Jacob becomes ageless or whatever, I’m guessing because of the special wine?

JILL: Mmm special wine. But yes, the mommy/daddy issues on this show are getting out of control. I kind of want to send the writers to group therapy.

LAUREN: Dude, I could make damn good use of magic wine at my house.

JILL: Me too! Give me the Special Wine and that awesome goat-head-baby and I’d be pretty set for life. Even better than cats!

SADY: So, question… how did she get the wine on the Island? Did she steal that from a doomed lady’s vagina, too? Or was there a whole, “also we have a mystical vineyard of enchantment and in that vineyard you will find life, death, rebirth, and some fine Bordeaux grapes” plot that I missed?

SALLY: At any rate, it was also annoying to see another woman who’s all “OMG BABY! I NEED BABY! MUST KILL MOTHER FOR BABY!” But, what else should we expect?

LAUREN: No kidding. When this series is over, we’re all going to get together and do a retrospective of LOST’s crimes against women. For real, ladies.

Anyway, I feel like questioning where CJ Cregg comes from is like challenging some other epistemological POV, like if God created everything, who created God? We don’t really need to know where CJ comes from or how she got her magic wine. All that matters is that she bestowed her whiny/evil kidnapped twin babies (Jesus, the cliches) with her powers, made up some rules so her precious beloveds couldn’t directly hurt one another, and then she messed her babies up in her own special way, a way that would inspire the longest, meanest Backgammon game OF ALL TIME that can only be concluded with the innate glory and humanity of JACK SHEPARD.

JILL: So I initially misread the beginning of that last sentence — “All that matters is that she bestowed her whiny/evil kidnapped twin babies (Jesus, the cliches)” — as “Jesus” and “the cliches” as being the names of those whiny/evil kidnapped twin babies. It… kind of works.

MIB made up rules to the game he and Jacob play together. MIB tells Jacob he’ll be able to create his own game one day and make up his own rules. Is that why all of the random rules of the island are in place?

LAUREN: I kind of don’t know where to go with this reveal. One of the fascinating things from the earlier episodes of this season were the musings on where all the rules come from, who is in power, and why. Now that we know, I’m all meh about it.

SALLY: I think it got lost amidst everything else going on in the episode, but I’m also disappointed that we’re meant to think the rules simply come from Jacob’s head, just cuz.

SADY: Actually, much that is irritating about this show can be explained by the fact that it’s just inane Jacob conducting some ridiculous game of Island Fear Factor. Because Jacob is a weiner. And he would do that. And then he would whine about it when you broke the rules, and go tell his mom. Ohhhh, waaaaaaaaaaaaiit….

We learn the island has a light that’s the “source/heart” of the island. If the light goes out, it also goes out around the world. If you enter the light, something worse than death happens. And the light must be protected by Jacob. Uh, thoughts?

CARA: Okay, as we cut to the commercial after the woman who has no name (LOST: Pointlessly refusing to name characters since 2009!) told Jacob and MIB that the light was something that was “inside every man … but they always want more” with the really bad CGI light shining all over the place, I turned to my husband. And I cupped my ear in my hand, and said to him, “Do you hear that? It’s quiet, but it’s like … a motorcycle, revving up! With a faint aaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy over top. Surely, I’m not the only one who hears that!”

Those are my thoughts. Also, that waiting to jump the shark until 3 episodes from the end of the show is pretty much the most rage-inducing thing you could do. No, LOST, I’m sorry. You need to give us something that is both more specific and less embarrassingly cliched than that.

SALLY: LMAO! Well, um, yeah.

I was confused about this whole light thing and in trying to work it into the rest of the series, got even more confused? I wonder if this light was always planned and I also wonder what on earth it has to do with the supposed system they created that works with the light and the water to get them off the island? Uh, what? And if MIB never got to finish it, then how in the hell does it end up existing?

JILL: Can I just point out that for a show as popular as LOST, they have the worst special effects EVER? I mean, I thought their submarine effects were bad, but the Special Light-Hole was a little too Ferngully even for me.

CARA: YES. YES YOU CAN POINT THAT OUT.

SADY: Oh, my god! And they had to have mystic flowers growing out of the mystic light cave and then Pocahontas is there and she is like, “can YOU paint with all the colors of the wind?” And this Mel-Gibson-voiced dude is like, “sorry, no.” And little birdies come out to help Sleeping Beauty with her chores and then… I’m sorry, I should stop, because nothing I came up with could be stupider than this plot development. You could literally have the Wizard of Oz hiding behind a curtain in the light cave and he’d turn out to be Bernard and he’d be like, “it was me all along, you guys!” And I would be like, “still not stupider! We got to the stupidest level we could, and we’re sticking to it!”

LAUREN: * throws up * Sorry, I got sick drinking out of the treacle-well. Excuse me while I turn into a sparking column of smoke.

JILL: The religion cliches are also getting tiresome. I mean, yay LOST for kind of twisting them a little bit, and making it so there is no good or evil? And for so explicitly tying “evil” to curiosity and science and reason — both clearly good things? But. So Jacob wasn’t the favorite, until he was, and I definitely felt much more sympathetic towards the one who is supposed to be “evil”-ish and I’m sure that was intentional, but the “there’s a little bit of the Light in all of us?” They should have just made Baby MIB bust into an inspiring rendition of This Little Light of Mine. That song is so cute when kids sing it. And it would have been about as insightful.

LAUREN: I rolled my eyes a little at this, but it also makes sense. We’ve got three situations now where someone was tricked into safe-guarding the island against his will. First Jacob, then Desmond (and presumably the Dharma folks before Desmond, and maybe more?), and now whomever gets revealed in the final hours of the episode.

And maybe I’m twelve, but did anyone else giggle when MiB’s body went down the drain of light like a big turd?

JILL: Maybe I’m twelve, but: Someone did call it a “light-hole,” right? Ahahaha.

Perhaps most importantly, we learn why MIB is evil: his mother ruins his chance of leaving the island and also tries to kill him, then Jacob pushes him into the light. The “worse than death” thing is that MIB becomes Smokey. How do you feel about MIB after learning this?

SALLY: So this kind of annoyed me. Because I approached the last season of LOST similarly to how I approached the last book in the HP series. To that end, I’ve been let down a lot because they just could have done everything so much better. There were times when I saw how some parts of the story have been planned since the very beginning, and that really made me happy. But one thing I loved about HP is that the characters who have both good and evil in them, or are evil because of circumstances, you pretty much know the whole time. Meanwhile, in LOST, we were supposed to be questioning MIB’s goodness this whole season. Then last week we learn, BAM! He’s EVIL! No question! And this week we learn that, actually, he wasn’t always this way and, in fact, he might not have been this way if it weren’t for his brother, and, in fact, all he really wants is to get off the island. Um… what? You can’t reveal that he’s pure evil three weeks before the show ends, then decide actually he’s not that bad two weeks before it ends. Why? Because that shit is ANNOYING! And not good storytelling!

CARA: I don’t even understand this. I feel kind of stupid for it, but it’s true. I don’t know what happened. MIB is dead. But he’s also Smokey? So is he really dead, only to be taken over by Smokey like Christian and Locke’s bodies were? Or is he actually Smokey, even though his body is there decaying in a cave? The latter makes more sense in terms of Smokey acting like Jacob’s brother throughout the rest of the show, but very little sense to me in terms of tying in with other LOST logic. Further! WHY did throwing MIB into the cave make him into Smokey, or release Smokey, or whatever? If you have to protect the light, and if the light is good, why did the light do something bad? What is the point of the smoke? I just don’t get it. Please, someone explain it to me if you do get it!

SALLY: So I, too, was confused at first but here’s what I think happened (though, of course, I don’t actually know, but it’s what I think). I feel like this is one of those “too much good is actually bad” or “so pure, it’s dangerous” things. Jacob didn’t know what would happen if he threw MIB into the light, but he knew he wouldn’t die and he knew it’d be really awful. I feel like maybe it worked to rid MIB’s body of his evil by creating this evil Smokey force. It somehow took MIB’s body and killed it (haven’t worked that part out yet), but now as Smokey, MIB can inhabit his old body temporarily, the way he inhabits Christian and Locke. So, like, Smokey is the evil part that resided inside of MIB, without all of the good. Or something.

Really, the only reason I came up with it this way is because of this whole reveal last week that MIB/Smokey is evil. Because if they’re now saying definitively that MIB is evil, then I assume it must be because of Smokey and the Smokiness of the island. Or something. Because it’s pretty damn clear now that he wasn’t actually this way always. (I still don’t think he really is, but what do I know…)

CARA: Well, this makes as much sense as anything else! I’m also working on a theory that nameless lady was Smokey before she died. That she told them not to go into the cave because she did, and that’s what happened to her. It would explain how she was able to kill all of those people, and why she was happy to be killed, in addition to why MIB/Smokey repeated her line about people coming, conquering, corrupting, and always ending the same.

SALLY: I like this theory of which you speak…

SADY: I am continually impressed by your ability to be a better writer than this show, Cara.

CARA: And I, Sady, by your ability to be more subtle than Jack’s cryface.

JILL: I interpreted “worse than death” as a kind of purgatory, going along with the Hell theme that they introduced in previous episodes. So MIB is basically in purgatory — dead, but worse than dead — and trying to escape. The island is literally his hell. I still don’t understand the smoke, though. Cara’s theory makes sense, but then why was it possible to kill Allison Janney? LOST I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND YOU.

SALLY: Because he snuck up behind her and killed her with the magical knife?

CARA: Quite possibly! But I also think that the “it was the magic knife!” explanation has become the new “well of course those timelines don’t match up, because time travels differently on the island!” excuse.

JILL: Oh right, duh, magic knives! I ALWAYS forget about those.

Despite Nameless Lady confirming that MIB is a liar, it turns out he hasn’t lied as much as we thought. His mommy issues, his explanation about the wells/holes throughout the island, even his reason for getting off the island – all true. Could it be that he’s been telling the truth all along?

SALLY: Again, another thing that annoyed me. Although less so, I guess. I suppose the point of this is to make us rewatch all the episodes to figure out whether or not MIB has been lying or telling the truth this whole time. But the thing is, I’m so over this season, I am completely not motivated to do that! So while I would have been intrigued by this reveal if this season hadn’t been a disappointment, right now, it just pisses me off. I guess maybe I didn’t enjoy this episode as much as I thought I did… lol

LAUREN: Every truth has a slant though, you know? I like the thought that the truth, or the meaning of it all, is somewhere in the middle of these brothers’ stories. My frustration is similar to yours though, because I see what the writers and producers were going for, and yet so much is lost (ha) in the weak dialog and thin story lines. Also, Jacob a big ol’ baby? Ugh. MiB FTW.

JACOB: You wanted it to be HIM, Lauren! You always wanted it to be HIM! I’m going to run away to the circus on the other part of the Island and never come baaaaaaaaack.

Another reveal this week is Adam & Eve. Are you satisfied with the answer?

CARA: I am satisfied with the answer — it’s one of the few things about this episode that I’m satisfied with — though not satisfied about how they gave it to us. I thought that flashing back to Jack and Kate discovering the skeletons was corny and just really bad writing. Either trust the audience, or don’t, you know? Or do a stupid “previously on LOST” at the beginning. Either way, but this particular way was bad, and kind of put a damper on the moment for me. But the answer itself, yes, I’m satisfied.

SADY: I suppose they could have just done, like, a time lapse dissolve and literally SHOWED them turning into skeletons while everybody else buzzed around in fast motion. But other than that, I don’t think they could have been more literal or heavy-handed in demonstrating that THESE! ARE THE SKELETONS! FROM THE CAVE!

SALLY: Aside from treating us like morons and assuming we wouldn’t get the connection, I thought this was really interesting. I certainly didn’t see it coming and I’m still a bit confused about the timing of it all, but I was certainly satisfied with this.

There’s one episode left before the 2.5-hour series finale – do you have any expectations or hopes?

SALLY: I hope that the last 3.5 hours of LOST do not make me want to rip my hair out. I hope they wrote these last episodes before writing the rest of this season because they’ve clearly lost their juice. And I hope to remember some of the questions I wanted answered because I’ve forgotten them all.

CARA: Well the writers basically seem to be at the point of telling the fan base to go fuck themselves, so nah, no real expectations or hopes. If it turns out to be great, I’ll be thrilled, of course! It could potentially even redeem these past couple episodes, or basically the whole season! But if it doesn’t, I won’t be surprised, anymore. It’ll be what it’s going to be.

JILL: I hope that the Chosen One is neither Jack nor John. I hope it’s someone totally random, like Lapidus. Like how Allison Janney thought it would be MIB, but instead it was actually Jacob? (“It was always supposed to be you!” Aw, so maternal, Killer Mommy CJ Cregg!). Jacob could totally axe Jack and John and turn to Lapidus and be like, “It was always supposed to be you, so, have some wine” and Lapidus would just be like, cool. Best. Ending. Ever.


29 thoughts on Thursday LOST Roundtable: Across the Sea

  1. It seemed to me that the light was no longer in the tunnel after MIB was thrown in and became Smokey. I think, that when MIB was thrown in, the light merged with his soul/spirit/conscience, and the two are now linked. I think originally his faux mom didn’t want him to leave because she was trying to protect him from all the suffering/pain/evil in the world. Now he can’t leave the island, because he IS the light, and the light is him; or at least it is trapped within him. That is why Jacob cannot let him leave, then the light would leave the island, no more island.
    A side theory in addition. If MIB does have the light, and there is a little bit of the light in all of us, and having a lot of light makes you want more light. Maybe MIB wants off the island so he can claim the light of everyone on the planet.

  2. I loved it.

    Maybe it’s because I never felt like the science-y stuff was all that reliable or well-developed and amounted to “it’s PHYSICS!” is why I don’t feel that let down by the spiritual/magical stuff. Faith (which is much more how I saw it than “magic”) is a theme that’s been building for a long time.

    I felt like my understanding of the island and the mythology behind it is much clearer and better defined, particularly in light of last season’s finale and Ab Aeterno. People are brought to the island to protect it, one after another. They must merge their identities with the island to a certain extent (which explains the lack of name to me) and cannot kill themselves.

    Is it still foggy? Yeah. But I initially liked it, and though I think I’m defending that opinion more vociforously because everyone else hated it, I’m sticking by it for at least two weeks.

    (Also, I think the dialogue has ALWAYS been like that. It’s a pulpy, sci-fi show, and often times it’s GOOD and EVIL and not all that subtle)

  3. I actually liked what they did with MIB in this episode. Remember, at one point this season, he was all like, “you know, I had a mother once, I used to be normal”? Well, he was telling the truth after all.

    I’m treating THE LIGHT as another Biblical metaphor at this point. I guess maybe it’s the light that was at the beginning of all things? Remember how light is the first divine command and such?

    You really do think they wouldn’t have made it like some bad Kinkade-in-the-tropics crap.

  4. I agree. What is the point in answering a question with a question. This is no mystery if there is no solution, no answer. A writer that “leaves the ending up to the audience” is not a writer. Anyone can think of some weird questions and mysteries if they don’t have to answer them.

  5. LOL, love the Lapidus ending.

    My feelings about Jacob and Smokey have actually been pretty consistent throughout: Jacob’s a dick for jerking people around, I don’t care how godlike he is, and there’s more to Smokey than meets the eye. This episode actually humanized Jacob in my eyes, because at one point he thought this was stupid too, and he also thought he was being jerked around. As for Smokey, my theory was actually the same as Sally’s, that the smoke monster somehow takes on aspects of the person while enhancing their bad side and suppressing their good, something that was bolstered by this old quote from Terry O’Quinn (who was also guessing of course):

    …occasionally there’s residual Locke emotions or feelings that Smokey gets that may surprise him, may irritate him, that he can’t completely control, so he’ll be smug or make fun of John Locke. Or say he was a loser and he was pathetic and he was broken. But for my own edification, I keep a little spark of John Locke alive in this being…

    And since I’m calling Smokey “complicated”, I still can’t help but think there was a reason why they all died. And hopefully it’s…not completely evil?

    Also, I think the reveal about Jacob’s rules is incomplete. It only tells you that Jacob definitely made them up, but we still don’t know whether they’re arbitrary or he had a reason.

  6. I loved this episode. It seems it’s a pretty much YOU LOVE IT OR HATE IT deal, but I just liked the fairytale feeling it had. It was also the same reason I loved Richard’s episode.

    The magical oven of light was cheesy(I thought the island was supposed to be a cork Now it’s a candle!), but I didn’t really think they jumped the shark with that moment. Lost has jumped the shark like what, 80 times now? With the magical frozen wheel that causes a magical island to disappear and move through time?

    I think this season, and well, the entire show is pretty flawed, but I’m enjoying the ride at this point. I just hope they can make the final episodes worth it. And possibly, makes these episodes make more sense in retrospect! (ha ha ha..ha..)

  7. I hated this episode with the heat of a thousand burning suns. Mostly I hate the idea that there is good and evil which objectively exists in a person and can be separated after 5 seasons of challenging that view. Apparently I have not been watching the same show they’ve been writing.

  8. For such an epic series, Lost has managed to keep so much suspense over 6 years. In addition to the obvious mysteries and storylines, it’s also done an incredible job at throwing small clues and hints at its viewers to pick up on. Many of these have gone missed, and many have been spotted. I think that a big part of the show is putting the pieces together like a puzzle – the answers aren’t going to be explicitly stated ever on the show. It’s wrong to expect that. For a show that’s kept us guessing so long, who wants a simple answer. Here’s what I’m talking about regarding the hidden clues/hints along the past 6 seasons: http://thesmogger.com/2010/05/13/looking-at-lost-the-things-you-may-have-missed/

  9. I’ve hung in there for a lot of mystical shenanigans on this show, but this season … ugh. Too much.

    I fell in love with Lost because it was cool, character-driven sci-fi, and it was fun trying to piece together the mysterious story that explained everything odd. Over the last two seasons, almost every reveal has disappointed me. Glowy magic life cave? I’d be happier with more pseudoscientific babble about the Kasimir Effect. I’m having major Battlestar Galactica flashbacks.

  10. I think it would have helped the episode if Jacob had been the serene guy less prone to anger. I mean, MIB has not really changed since Childhood. And I think much of it would have read as more interesting if Jacob was delivering most of his lines in a calm tone-even when he realized Mom always thought MIB would be the chosen protector. Instead, we get a petulant teen ager version of Jacob.

    “Um… what? You can’t reveal that he’s pure evil three weeks before the show ends, then decide actually he’s not that bad two weeks before it ends.”

    Agreed. Had this episode played earlier in the season? It might have been a great piece of misdirection. But now he is established as an evil that must be stopped, so I really don’t care if he got a raw deal. Earlier in the season, it would have left me asking if the Jacob/MIB relationship wasn’t going to flip on us. But one thing I have found with Carlton and Cuse is that, while they may be vague and obtuse with answers, when they give a definitive answer? They are usually tellingthe truth. And if they wanted to proved that Smokey was truly evil, the purpose of this episode is not to flip it around and make us wonder if he is the good guy afterall.

  11. This episode really has been love it or hate it.

    You know, the thing that’s really bugging me is that for a show that was really great and kept fans interested FOR YEARS (even through some slow/weird seasons), they’ve done such an awful job with their last season as a whole. The order of episodes has been strange, they’re adding elements to the show that they didn’t have planned from the beginning, and their writing for a lot of episodes hasn’t been good. I just can’t understand it.

  12. I know there are plenty of inconsistencies and needs to suspend disbelief but I was troubled wondering how Mother was going to feed the babies after she killed Claudia. Did the magical light tunnel bring magical milk to her magical breasts? And how did lil’ Jacob and lil’ Smokey come to the conclusion that Mother was insane having no other people to compare her to?? Smokey seems to be the more evolved because he left Mother at age 13 to live with the AD23 Others. Jacob stayed a whiny baby because he lacked socialization. And was I the only one who thought of Marsellus Wallace’s briefcase from Pulp Fiction when we saw the cave/light/island belly button??

  13. @LisaSargese DITTO!! on the breast feeding and DITTO!! on the briefcase of light. Those were both immediate reactions 4 me. Smokey more evolved? Maybe just more acute. IMO, Pellegrino’s choices were a bit oafish, while Welliver’s character was quickly engaged. Remember the “tree of knowledge” shown in Ab Aeterno? Looks like Darlton may have paralleled the science v faith binary here. Interestingly, Smokey’s plans for Richard were unraveled by Hurley beneath that same tree.

  14. Truth be told, I don’t much care if all of the questions are answered as long as the episodes are entertaining, and the answer’s we’re given don’t seem like cheats. The biggest problem with not getting answers is that it’s been suggested that they would be forthcoming; perhaps it’s the show’s marketers who’ve been pushing that angle, to try to boost ratings, as the writers don’t seem particularly interested in delivering. I thought that the manner in which Adam & Eve were addressed earlier in the season was sufficient, and the presentation in this episode struck me as over-the-top. In contrast with “Ab Aeterno”, which didn’t answer many questions but was for the most part entertaining, or the similarly entertaining but not particularly edifying “Law and Order: Miles and Sawyer, LAPD” episode, I found this episode to be weak as stand-alone entertainment.

    I’m also working on a theory that nameless lady was Smokey before she died. That she told them not to go into the cave because she did, and that’s what happened to her. It would explain how she was able to kill all of those people, and why she was happy to be killed, in addition to why MIB/Smokey repeated her line about people coming, conquering, corrupting, and always ending the same.

    That’s good. But… alas.

    Nameless lady is more akin to “the crazy mothers of the forest” – Rousseau and Claire – than she is to smokey. Clearly she does possess some magical powers; perhaps they played a role. But it seemed pretty clear that when unconscious “man in black” was dumped into the cave and the smoke emerged, the light went out in the cave – that would seem to be how Jacob “stole” his body and trapped him on the island. How it came to be that rather than being alone and slowly going crazy like his nameless sort-of mother, Jacob ended up having to keep his disembodied brother (the embodiment of ‘the light’) on the island.

    We’ve been told that the whispers in the trees are spirits trapped on the island, and that most other appearances of dead people are the Man in Black (save for appearances of mini-Jacob and, I expect, Jacob). Jacob was able to travel off of the Island to influence people. MiB was apparently able to manifest as ghosts to certain people who had contact with the island, once they had left. But what are we to make of ghost mom, appearing to mini-MiB to tell him that she had been murdered and to drive him away from his mother. If MiB was able to see the island’s ghosts, it would make more sense that pseudo-mom would see him as her successor, but we still end up with at least as many new questions as answers.

    Interesting, also, that pseudo-mom told the boys (or was the comment meant just for one of them?) that they would not have to age and die, but they both aged up to the point that she (and MiB) died and Jacob drank the Kool-Aid, er, I mean, wine.

    … an interesting move considering how hard the production team worked to convince us that MiB is evil, all evil, through and through evil, evil to the core evil, would kill off our favorite characters last week evil.

    I think the writers have intentionally confused watchers about the relationship between Jacob and his twin. One week the Island is depicted as a cork that prevents hell from emerging onto Earth; the next week the Man in Black doesn’t seem like such a bad guy… um, then Desmond goes into the well. Then he tries to kill all of the candidates. So maybe it is as simple as good versus evil? This episode, I think, was meant to help us understand MiB’s motivations. He has a Hobbesian vision of man, and for centuries has been trapped in a ‘fate worse than death’, having been stripped of a physical body, deprived of any chance of leaving the island and reaching a point of desperation probably not dissimilar to that of his pseudo-mom: If he had no hope of escape he might be as welcoming of death as pseudo-mom – who seemed to deliberately engineer the events that resulted in her death. But he intends to escape and he’s not going to let the lives of a few men – dust in the wind – stand in the way of that escape.

    And was I the only one who thought of Marsellus Wallace’s briefcase from Pulp Fiction when we saw the cave/light/island belly button?

    Marsellus Wallace – “Wallace”, of course, being the mysterious candidate that Jacob wanted Jack to check up on via the lighthouse. It has to be the same stuff.

  15. I dunno, gaiz. Maybe I have Stockholm Syndrome or something at this point, but I’m enjoying this last season. Well, I’m fucking upset as hell that the show is ENDING, and don’t even get me started on the UNNECESSARY FUCKING DEATHS in the last episode (it just felt like they wanted to jerk the audience around for the shock factor, over all, I just can’t agree that these characters deserved such endings) but nah, I can’t say I’m not having fun, because I still am.

    I sit and watch
    As jears go by.
    etc.

  16. Magical light/power that must be kept secret. I remember this from the bad sci-fi movie Highlander: The Source. Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse mentioned The Highlander franchise in a podcast, in terms of supernatural characters obeying rules of combat. My jaw dropped when Alison Janney described the light as “the source.” I can’t believe the show producers stole an idea from the worst action movie of all time.

    My major beef with Lost is that the show establishes rules and breaks them. Jacob and MIB can’t hurt each other. Jacob is responsible for the death of MIB’s mortal self. That qualifies as doing bodily harm. Jack couldn’t kill himself or Richard with dynamite. Jin was on the freighter platform when it blew and survived. Yet Sawyer managed to accidently blow up the sub. Lost is a fantasy show and supension of disbelief is required. It is hard when the creators say fuck off to their own rules.

    Jacob did a bad job of preparing the candidates. He was arrogant enough to believe they would magically figure it out. Richard and Illeana didn’t know about the wine. There is no way for the candidates to pass on any special powers needed to a successor.

  17. *wham*
    *wham*
    *wham*

    Wait. I haven’t finished banging my head against the wall.

    *wham*
    *wham*
    *wham*

  18. OK.

    In all seriousness, I’m with those who didn’t need all the answers, just ones that didn’t feel like cheats. Much like BSG, it seems pretty obvious that despite lots of posturing to the contrary, there never was a plan. They are going to sort of tie up the bits they feel like writing about, put no thought into how any of this makes any of what went on before make sense, and then tell the fans to go fuck themselves.

    It’s disappointing, and I am curious how two shows have done this so similarly. They knew they had an end, they had time to prepare, and they do a slow, rambling, badly paced final season that doesn’t go anywhere, answers nothing in a satisfactory manner, and then they claim the shows were never about the mysteries and plans and plot – just the characters.

    Maybe there’s some awesome rabbit in the hat to pull out in the last 3.5 hours, but I don’t think so.

    I also vote for Lapidus as the surprise new Jacob. (Actually, i vote for everyone rejecting the idea of a new Jacob, sinking the island after somehow unifying/reconciling/destroying Jacob and MiB, and letting the world get on with itself, possibly in Flash Sideways land.)

  19. “LAUREN: No kidding. When this series is over, we’re all going to get together and do a retrospective of LOST’s crimes against women. For real, ladies.”

    This is something that has been getting in the way of my enjoyment of the show more and more. I’m sure you all have noticed that the female characters are (for plot purposes) all about babies (OK, they also affect the plot as objects of male love and desire). They go baby mad. They are tools to create babies. That is about it.

    OK, there are exceptions (Ana Lucia, Naomi, and Ilana are strong leader types that don’t seem overly concerned with babies, but they die pretty quickly. Shannon and Charlotte show independence and also die before going baby crazy. And Penny and Sun both show strength and devotion. And I was using hyperbole in the first paragraph) but in the major plot arcs in this season… Jack is a candidate and not Claire – they both had Shepard as a father. Kate is annoying but they never say why she isn’t a candidate. And Juliette, well she doesn’t go baby crazy and is a doctor. Of course she is a doctor that is only concerned about babies. (and all she did this season was have her death repeated many times)

    So at the beginning of this episode I was like cool – a character I’ve never seen before. Then, oh shit, she is pregnant. Of course she is pregnant. Then, oh another new character. Wait a minute, she seems a little crazy. Oh no! she’s baby crazy! Why! Sometimes it seems like it has to be a joke. It fails the show as entertainment because it brings you out of the episode. Going baby crazy isn’t a real thing!

  20. Allison Janney says a line right near the beginning of the episode were she states “Every question I answer will only lead to more questions” which I take as a message from the writers to the audience basically saying… “We tried to fit too much into this series, but look how interwoven and deep it is… look polar bears… look there’s Jack in the background of Hurley’s flashback… look there’s more mysterious people… hey look we’re time traveling now… hey we knew who Adam and Eve were right from the beginning… you don’t need answers to any of the BIG questions we’ve raised just make up your own answers… we’re tired…”

  21. Lisa Sargese and Hurleybird – didn’t you know there’s a secret stash of formula on the Island? How else would Kate have kept Aaron alive and happy for the several days between Claire running off with Christian/MIB and the Oceanic Six finding Penny’s boat (where there must also have been a stash of formula, ready just in case mystical babies arrive, to get them through the week of travel to Bali).

    For the number of storylines involving babies, the writers seem to have ignored a lot of key points about the realities of caring for them. Apart from feeding Aaron and the twins, surely Sun would have told Jin to get his arse off the sub and go look after Ji Yeon.

  22. Nicholas R- You gotta take Ana Lucia off your list. She killed that guy because he had assaulted her when she was pregnant and made her lose her baby.

    “For the number of storylines involving babies, the writers seem to have ignored a lot of key points about the realities of caring for them.”

    Agreed. But more so than that, think of how many story lines have been about children: Aaron. Ji Yeon. Waaaallllt! Alex. The other’s kidnapping the kids. The fertility issues on the island. Also, to correspond with the multitude of parent-issues in LOST think of how many kids end up being raised by people other than their parents: Aaron. Ji Yeon. WAAAAALLLLT! Alex. Smokey and Jacob. Sawyer.

    There are A LOT of children-centric plots in LOST but what has come of them?

  23. @nicholasr: Going baby crazy isn’t a real thing!>>

    What? You mean all those times I’ve hit a pregnant woman over the head with a rock, stolen children while they sadly drag their rabbit toys, or made special skull babies, I was playing into a phenomenon that doesn’t even exist?

  24. I think the parent-child thing is reeeeeally amplified on Lost in general. Look no further than Jack’s multiple daddy issues, or Sawyer’s obsessive quest to kill the guy who seduced his mother. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I got waaaaaaay tired of it with Jack, personally. Not so tired of it with Sawyer. And sometimes with they had done more with Sun’s relationship with her dad, for example.

  25. The light is like the tree of knowledge from the book of Genesis. Don’t eat that fruit! You’ll live forever in paradise if you just don’t eat that fruit. The two people who did taste it, Fake Mom and MIB, are doomed, and are even called “Adam and Eve”! Going into the cave is like eating the apple, and removes innocence, leaving you vulnerable to all the corruption of the world.

  26. I don’t think the light was a late addition in the writers’ minds. I didn’t go back and watch, but I’m pretty sure that in the episode where Ben turns the frozen donkey wheel to move the island and then lands himself in Tunisia, you can see the light between the stones and the wheel. Whether or not that was planned early is anyone’s guess, but it had to be written along with Ben moving the island to escape more invaders from Whitmore’s freighter team or whoever he was sending next. Season 4? Or was it as late as 5?

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