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Thinking about feminist icons

Chally

It’s time for a group discussion, I think! I’m going to get the ball rolling with some questions, but I really want to hear your thoughts on this, maybe build a sense of what the Feministe community thinks around feminist icons – knowing you lot, hardly a monolithic sense! So, here we go.

  1. What makes someone a feminist icon?
  2. Who are feminist icons? That is, who are some feminist icons for you personally, and who do you identify as icons for the feminist movement in general?
  3. What are the uses and problems in having feminist icons?
  4. How has the picking of particular types of feminists, or feminists from particular groups, as feminist icons been problematic, and what does that say about feminism and society?
  5. What importance do feminist icons have – to your personal feminism, to the movement – if it is important to have them?

41 thoughts on Thinking about feminist icons

  1. Women I know and love who I think should be feminist icons:
    Maryse Mitchell-Brody
    Bhavana Nancherla
    Reina Gossett
    Jay Toole

  3. Marilyn Waring! Author of Counting for Nothing: What men value and what women are worth, rigorous thinker, determined, independent, former member of parliament in New Zealand (known for many things she did while an MP, including giving up in disgust on the daily circus in the House and taking her knitting along so at least she could get something constructive done), author of Women, Politics, and Power, an insightful book at what it was like to be a woman in parliament, especially when women were hardly ever elected, renowned feminist economist and political thinker.

    She was recently on NZ tv, and I think she wiped with the floor with the interviewer, who was just a little inclined to mansplaining.

  4. This is a complicated series of questions. There’s a number of names that pop to my mind as feminist icons but many of those names have some problems behind them. Like, I think of some people as feminist icons even though I don’t even agree with their conclusions. For example: Betty Freidan, Andrea Dworkin. So why do I think of them first?
    But then a few other names come to mind who address problems. But why didn’t I think of those problem-addressers first? A few examples include, bell hooks, Jessica Valenti, Julia Serano. I tend to think of big bloggers as icons too.

    For better or worse I think that, notoriety determines who is recognized as an icon. That might mean publishing a noteworthy book or paper, teaching, or being in the media. All of that notoriety lends itself to influence, so I think that’s another feature of who gets to be an icon.

    I think the 3rd and 4th questions go together. Some problems are, who gets to be an icon? What messages are these icons spreading? Why were the first two names I thought of cis white women? Being an icon means you’re probably relatively well recognized so you might get around the media circuits. Not all of the messages said by icons though, are done with the best intention and results for everyone… sometimes those messages by two different icons conflict, too. Media might seize upon conflicts and use such conflicts to paint feminism with one big brush of disagreement.
    Uses though – feminist icons give a face & name to schools of feminist thought (I don’t believe that any single person can be THE FACE of all feminism everywhere. Maybe you can be A FACE of A TYPE of feminism, but of all of it? I don’t see that unity.) If you’re in the media enough you might be able to get word out of a new, challenging idea and other media heads will take you seriously (or not.)

    As far as importance – for me it’s like, research. Chances are there’s certain schools of thought in feminism you may have encountered, and so you might have to go research that school of thought, which will lead you back to a famous icon. I need to see what this or that person said. And maybe I want to know their background, so I can see why zie said it.
    In practice I might not give theory much weight even if it did come from a famous icon though. If someone who I think of as a feminist icon is still alive presently, I might seek out their presence online or in print to see if their ideas are the same or if they’ve changed.

    Is it important to me to have feminist icons? Well, not to me personally, no. To feminism in general? I don’t know… some icons are very dear to individuals, so I wouldn’t want to take that away. But I think that if you put too much weight into the words of one individual, because zie is famous, well what if what those words are have problems? You might not even recognize them and if pointed out, might not want to hear it.

  9. I think what contributes to “icon” status is that the out-group should also be able to typically recognize those individuals as representative of the in-group. Gloria Steinem and Lady Gaga come to mind.

    Fallibility of humankind is the issue with having icons. Steinem’s on record saying some transphobic things (per wikipedia, though I will admit ignorance outside of wikipedia regarding her transphobia). You need to look no further than the Telephone thread to understand some of the issues with Lady Gaga and the problematic elements in her video, as per the trans community.

  11. That’s some baller US-centrism in my iconology.

    I’m sorry.

    Part of it is being pretty new to the movement and my inability to recognize major, famous feminists. I apologize that I’m only coming up with people in the US. White people in the US at that. (Hillary Clinton is another that comes to mind).

  14. PrettyAmiable @11: I don’t think it’s just you, I think it’s a part of the problem in who gets to be a feminist icon in the first place. A lot of the major, famous feminists – as you are no doubt aware! 🙂 – are those white people in the US, and cis and so on as K pointed out. I also have a lot of problems identifying feminist icons outside of those groups, which is part of the reason I put up this post. I was asked in an interview the other day who my feminist icons were, and everyone I mentioned was from an English-speaking country, which was a bit shocking to me, especially as I know there are lots of great feminist activists working in other contexts but they’re just not in my consciousness enough to have thought of them then and there!

    RD, just a note: comments with more than 5 links in them go to the spam queue, so you have to wait until a mod fishes it out, (though if no one does in a few hours, send an email) though I didn’t find your first in there, I’m afraid! Thanks for the list.

  15. Are we using the term ‘feminist icon’ fairly loosely? As far as ‘uses and problems’ go, I have a hard time with the idea of ‘bestowing’ icon status on an individual. In religious vocabulary, an icon is an image of a sacred being. The image is then also sacred, as an object. In visual-literacy or semiotics terms, an icon is a sign or symbol of something else—the feminist icon would, for better or worse, be reduced to (or elevated to, if you like) a symbol of feminism as a practice, value system, theory/ideal, etc. I understand the intent is to honor and recognize the accomplishments and achievements of the individual, but I would be more comfortable if the way we framed this didn’t have the unfortunate side effect of metaphorizing a person, their life, and work.

    Especially, as some commenters above have mentioned, if our lists of feminist icons tend to include mostly white women, straight women, American women, it is problematic to set up a system that seems (in its language) to claim to represent feminism but in practice positions white, straight, western feminists as an accurate, complete, or responsible sample.

  16. I do consider many women to be feminist role models, heroes, and leaders. Although these words might not sound as lofty, they are less troublesome, because, unlike icon, there is no suggestion of eternal stability. Icon is all-encompassing, it becomes a total category.
    I’d rather say, “I consider Jessica Valenti a personal hero for her ongoing commitment to communicating the relevance and value of feminism to so many young women. In addressing the need for a re-energizing of the resources and voices available to (or interested in dialogue with) high school- and college- aged women, she *models* investment in young people, makes visible her stakes, which is uniquely compelling and galvanizing when there are so many messages that outright dismiss young people’s role or just give lip service and go right on leaving them out.”
    I admire my feminist role models so much, that if it comes down to using a short-cut (calling them an icon) with potential problems vs. fully explaining my admiration and enthusiasm, I’d choose the latter every every time.

  17. Personal icons, each for slightly different reasons:

    Yoko Ono (Yes!)
    Linda Martin-Alcoff (how many profs have their employment history on their site?)
    bell hooks (keeping the ‘center’ honest)
    Simone de Beauvoir (one/other concept)
    Vandana Shiva (middle finger to Monsanto)
    Ursula K. Le Guin (too much for me to say)
    The “Yes Means Yes” contributors (and their colleagues)
    My aunt (R.I.P.)
    I am unsure if he identified as such, but I’ll mention Dr. George Tiller for the reasons in the linked post.

    I feel trepidation about most of them being “big names.” This is my main concern about the idea of icons, cos we should be our own! Much respect to those who live it (live truth to power?) but don’t get recognized for it. Though feminist movement progress > recognition, to me. Maybe encouragement is a better word.

  18. I wonder what we can do to change that, Chally (and K). I suppose something we could do is actively support and discuss the works of feminists worldwide in all their iterations, but I wonder if that puts some kind of pressure on these individuals to perform, if that makes sense. I really dislike the idea of forcing responsibility on someone simply because they share my beliefs but are more effective at furthering them in society.

    @convexed, would “the face of feminism” work better? I find it problematic because as noted above, naming white, cis, USian, etc, etc women the “face” erases so many people. I’d like to think that I’m the face of feminism, and so are you, and Chally, and K, and every commenter here, and all the feminists without the privilege to be here. I don’t think “face” works well. But, maybe that’s the issue in our choice of what we’ve been calling icons as well. Thanks for the information re: “icon” – I’ve never been exposed to that before!

  19. Well ok all the women I listed are Usian, but actually none of them are straight. 2/4, 50% of them are of color, and 1/4, 25% are trans.

  20. Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    I don’t know if she identifies as a feminist, but I think Michelle Obama should be on that list.

  21. Beth Ditto was a big influence on me. I liked the music of Gossip, before I discovered that I agreed with her politics. I put aside the fact that I disagree with her fat-positivism.

    Posy Simmonds was a political cartoonist for the left-wing British newspaper The Guardian in the 1980s. A lot of her cartoons deal with issues about gender stereotyping and the expectations of working mothers. Sadly, a lot of her work is still relevant twenty years later.

    Dr George Tiller has already been mentioned above. I have his obituary cut out and stuck up on my study wall.

    With feminism being such a broad political movement, there will be plenty of feminists with whom I disagree with. I’ve read a lot statements by Germaine Greer that make me want to stand up and shout “I’m not with her!”.

  22. I’m with convexed, I find the whole idea of having icons for your movement pretty problematic.
    They’re just individuals, after all.
    Honoring someone’s work and achievements is one thing, but an icon?

    And on top of that, I often find that women who achieve anything outstanding at all are often held up as beacons of feminist progress – sometimes not explicitly, but clearly expressed in the way they are discussed.

    I have two biographies here of a female Nobel laureate. One is desperately trying to make her a feminist icon and somehow use her as an example of “femininine” influence on science, whatever that would be.
    The other one – which sticks much more closely to her actual life and work, and quotes her much less selectively – is pointing out, among other things, how she herself had “no use for feminism”, and how she herself pretty much thought the whole idea of female science eing different from male science is rubbish.

    But because the first biography of her made such a fuss about her supposed status as a feminist role model and whatnot, that’s the dominant perception of her.
    And I’m sure she’s not the only example.

    Someone like Wilma Mankiller who actually did care a great deal about social justice etc. may well be held up as a role model – still a different thing from an icon.

    Just pinpointing high achievers for being female and trying to make that in itself a feminist stance… well, that path leads straight to Sarah Palin.

  23. I’m not sure the feminist movement NEEDS icons; in fact, I think it detracts from one’s personal responsibility to speak up about injustice whenever you hear/see it.

    Women need to REALIZE there are 4 billion more of them in the US than men, and that the clout they need to make change… has ALREADY ARRIVED in that number. We need to elect female politicians who are progressive, for we need more women in seats of power, where decisions are being made that effect our health, opportunities, environment, planet! When push comes to shove in the House and Senate, men are still having a hey-dey.

    We still need to cultivate forthrightness as a VALUE in female children, so that when they grow up they aren’t waiting for female icons to come along to set the tone for progress; they need to be taught the truth–ALL of us were designed to lead. The time for reluctance based on gender is OVER.

  24. UnFit, there are positive benefits to having icons (or whatever word we end up choosing). It swiftly communicates what the movement is about. There are icons (or again, the other word) in every major movement because they’re rallying points for other individuals who have less of an impact. Think what Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks did in the 60s. They were people you wanted to be like who made you want to take a stand and who quickly communicated what the civil rights movement in the US was about.

    So is it fair that they had that pressure put upon them? Well, no, right? It cost Martin Luther King Jr. his life. But without them, it’s unlikely that the civil rights movement would have happened in the same way, or likely would have taken a lot longer.

    This isn’t to compare the civil rights movement in the 60s in the US to feminism today. It’s just to give an example of what powerful iconology can do.

  26. Rosanne, how do you recommend getting other women to realize their personal responsibility? It’s not something that will just happen.

  27. At the moment, I can think of three feminist icons: The Guerrilla Girls, bell hooks and Jessica Valenti. However, I can think of more widely known icons, like Gloria Steinem and Andrea Dworkin, but those women aren’t, to me, icons. I don’t know a lot about them and they haven’t really affected my thinking. But The Guerrilla Girls, Jessica Valenti and bell hooks have all affected my life in significant ways.

  28. I define a feminist icon as someone who recognizes that being a feminist stems from inward conviction and purpose, not a focus on outward displays of orthodoxy. This same thing goes for beauty—one never needs to prove it, one simply is.

    This is not meant to criticize those who our outwardly and unashamedly feminist, but mainly to point out that many people feel that a feminist identity is only achieved by a variety of steps one must scale to the top to be official.

    The feminist icons I place up high are the ones who let their art speak for themselves. Many of mine are musicians or artists. I have always appreciated Fiona Apple for her lyrics, particularly. The British comic Josie Long is a favorite of mine as well.

  29. I answered a few of these this without looking at anyone else’s so I apologize if there is replication of ideas.
    1. Being in some way a public figure, working to better the situation or women and other marginalized groups, and self identifying as feminist. (That last part is big for me.)
    2. I feel like my general and personal are pretty much the same: bell hooks, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Jessica Valenti, Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, Courtney Martin, George Tiller.
    3. Uses: putting a face on feminism for the greater public (humanizing it) and spreading awareness about women’s issues. Problems: people thinking that the ideas of feminist icons represent all feminists.

  30. Interesting. Many of the people I would see as ‘icons’ or inspirations for my feminism wouldn’t necessarily identify as feminists themselves, or don’t frame their work in those terms. Perhaps that’s why my list is a little less white:

    Dolores Huerta
    Wangari Maathai
    Daw Aung San Suu Kyi
    Angela Davis
    Alice Walker (who coined the term womanist to specifically id as a feminist of color)
    The Combahee River Collective
    Ella Baker
    Ida B. Wells
    Assata Shakur
    Sojourner Truth
    Dean Spade
    Audre Lorde
    Gloria Anzaldúa
    Andrea Smith
    Pema Chodron

    I don’t think this is simply a who’s-who roster of feminists, but individuals whose work has been critical to the development of movements among working-class women/transfolk *of color* in the U.S. (again, like many, my list is u.s.-centric: need to work on that…)

    It’s no secret that white cis middle-class feminists have greater access to educational privilege, race privilege, and media tools that help one *become* famous. But even beyond that, the icon thing rubs me the wrong way in general. Can’t quite put words to it right now, which is funny and maybe indicates some internal resistance or blockage on my part. But I guess my main reservations are that (1) in the U.S., icons tend to reinforce our generalized desire for fame and overemphasis on individualism; and (2) rather than ‘humanizing’ an issue, i think the current cultural practice of icon installation tends to dehumanize the life of the individual, erasing their internal life and personal complexity.

    Perhaps these issues have more to do with the ways in which we ourselves relate to icons than the fact of their status, but I see them as pretty deeply linked.

  31. Some great examples above, including Hirsi Ali, a personal favorite, and Friedan.

    I think feminist icons can be both women with a stated focus on feminism, or those whose accomplishments and service generally have helped pave the way for other women. It struck me that if the question of icons were asked to men, of 25+ responses, at least a few would mention entrepreneurs and businessmen. It seems that women sometimes feel odd about voicing admiration for women who have achieved financial success. But to change the current imbalance in economic leverage by gender, someone has to bite that bullet.

    So, in no particular order, a few women who are both entrepreneurially successful and known for their community service ethic: Oprah, Mary Jean Connors, Anna Garcia, Rebecca Graham Paul, Kimora Lee Simmons, Phyllis Campbell, Indra Nooyi, Zoe Cruz, and Susan Arnold.

  32. octagalore, I don’t think it’s only a matter of “feeling odd for voicing admiration” for businesspeople, but sometimes (in my case at least) having serious and fundamental disagreements with the practice of “business,” period. No amount of philanthropy/charity/community service makes up for a pro-capitalist stance, in my opinion. And I think at least some other feminists would agree, given the ways that capitalist business harms women as a caste.

  33. I should also add that apart from Oprah, I don’t recognize any of the names you mentioned — so maybe they are in fact anti-capitalist and I just don’t know about them! If so, sorry to have jumped the gun and mischaracterized. 🙂 Also, I want to be clear that I’m not tryin to dis or say that those people can’t be icons, just sharing my experience of why, as a feminist, I don’t look to entrepreneurs as leaders or models.

  34. Kloncke, you didn’t mischaracterize at all, no worries. I am indeed pro-capitalist in the href=”http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?”>pro-market id=510295 rather than pro-business way. I think many people view capitalism as the crony-capitalism, rather than a feminist, pro-market, pro entry for the little guy, system — with a robust safety net.

    The fact that the system as it exists today, and as it is bolstered by both major parties, is flawed in many ways, does not mean that women who are successful in the businessworld are somehow any more corrup than anyone else. Or that we shouldn’t admire them. I don’t see men running away from material success anytime soon, and if women do that and men don’t, by my math the power gap gets even bigger. That doesn’t strike me as a good thing.

    The women I chose are ones I like in particular because beyond simply achieve material success, they’ve also worked to help other women do so as well, and have reached out to disadvantaged women. To me that’s a great example of feminism. More grassroots activism is great as well. But for women to define success that’s quantifiable in currency as “bad” is heading in a scary direction from a feminist perspective, in my view.

  35. I second octogalore. Being a capitalist isn’t synonymous with being pro-big business. Capitalism relies on free markets which pretty much requires that there be a high degree of competition (by way of many competing companies rather than one monopolist). Saying I’m not a feminist because I buy into Wealth of Nations is bullshit and prevents people like me who are pro-woman, anti-homophobia, etc, etc from getting their MBAs. My program – a top program – is less than 30% female. Please don’t feed us anti-Coulter types lines that will keep us out of b-schools. Take a look at the women who stood up to Merrill Lynch and Bank of America recently. We should be breaking down walls based on discrimination rather than arguing over preferred economic policy.

  36. I think that feminist icons are important in that movement’s sometimes need defined leaders for a sense of community and for getting involved in the movement. That’s why Jessica Valenti, Courtney Martin, feministing crew, etc. are sooo important. They’re allowing younger women to identify with them. This is really great though b/c these new icons are changing the face of feminism, making it relevant to younger women. It’s important though, that they not be taken as the voice of feminism, a guess a fine line. Jessica actually just came to speak at my university yesterday, and I asked her what it was like to have the pressure of “speaking for feminism,” which she said that she really can’t do. I think as long as we acknowledge that collectively, it’s important to have these icons (and personal heroes) as part of creating a larger network to gain ground.

  37. Given the fact that Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin are almost always included in de facto Feminist Icon Lists while Andrea Davis and Chandra Talpade Mohanty are not… I think the concept of “feminist icon” is outmoded and reactionary from the start. And I can’t see how attempts to be more “inclusive” are very helpful. I usually stay out of these kinds of discussions, and I find the kind of “hero worship” that often ensues in them…jarring and problematic.

    I saw all the hemming and hawing among white feminists on the blogosphere after Mary Daly died and was just…thoroughly unimpressed. I mean, really??? You (non-specific you) didn’t *know* she was a transphobe? And a racist? Had no idea? And it just broke your heart and made you have some kind of existential crisis? Really? All that did was continue to center white cis processing while everyone else was like, “Well, fuck, YES, I already KNEW that shit about Mary Daly, and I never had the PRIVILEGE of counting her as a personal feminist icon, thanks.”

    I’m not particularly comfortable with having that kind of reverence for, well, anyone.

  38. That said, no problems with appreciating people who’ve paved the way, etc. It’s when it approaches “hero worship” and exacerbates inequalities among women that it bothers me. And the phrase “feminist icon” is…well, icky to me. That’s probably my own fault, and I’ve no doubt I’m not effectively articulating why, but… I’m not comfortable with granting some kind of de facto sainthood to those who went before in any movement, least of all feminism. Can people be trailblazers? Important? Sure, but I won’t be speaking about my “feminist icons” any time soon.

  39. Ela Bhatt – I am surprised her name doesn’t come up more often. Possibly because she isn’t really a theorist? At the same time she started the Self Employed Women’s Association in India which is pretty much as big of a feminist organisation (albeit looking at things through the lens of women and work) there is.

    I agree – too many American/white/middle class icons around – some diversity would be good!

    If one is following Comrade Kevin’s line of thought then I would suggest that Margaret Atwood and Ismat Chughtai (a writer originally writing in Urdu, but who has been translated into English) are feminist icons

  40. Wow, this is really tough. I automatically break the women that come to mind into categories (which is what I tend to do when thinking of icons in general)

    British Modernist Authors:
    Dora Marsden
    Virginia Woolf
    H.D.

    Artists:
    Marina Abramovic (performance)
    Cindy Sherman (photography)

    Theorists:
    bell hooks
    Gloria Andalzua
    Adrienne Rich

    There are so many women that come to mind. Begging the question – what male authors contribute to feminism and how?

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