Bitches.

56 thoughts on Bitches.

1. It also seems that this was written by a young lady of color. It’s rather telling of how children digest notions about themselves and others, and how quickly it happens. I wish I could say that my experience in middle school was any different, but I am impressed/apalled at the notion of this being from a third-grader.

2. Seems to be written by a girl. Must be one angry little girl by the look of it, I can identify with it on a certain level, I was angry at that age too and especially at other girls. Guess there probably was som self hatred in it, but growing older I learned to deal with my anger in better ways. Hope this cupcake will as well.

3. I may be alone here but I thought it was hilarious and very inventive. I doubt it was the work of a third grader.. probably a fifth or sixth grader.. but give that kid a better grasp of spelling and grammar and you may just have a great writer there.

   But, I do use the term ‘bitches’ for both genders of human and for female dogs. That’s just me.

   IE
   “My nieghbours are such thieving bitches. Their kid stole our shovel and they kept it without even an word.” and “My chihuahua bitch has to be spayed soon.”

4. Damn right I am an instigating radical queer feminist bitch. No shame there at all.

5. I think it’s fake.
   Seriously, what third grader could define “Conceited”, much less understand what “Conceited bitches” are?

6. Its its not fake I’ll eat it covered in dog poop.

   Its another piece of horseshit passed around by right-wingnuts and brain dead cows. lets put ‘girls’ in their place.

7. I realize it’s probably a joke or a troll, but this list breaks my heart. It reads like the work of a kid who is (1) black, (2) female, and (3) poor and hates herself for all of those reasons. Doesn’t really matter if it actually came from a third grader or not; *somebody* wrote it. It’s just a sad, sad commentary on the author’s experiences.

8. My first thought was that a teacher had written it…

   I can see one or more of my old teachers pulling a stunt like that.

   Either my teachers really were that bad or I’m terribly cynical. Possibly both.

9. I do kind of like “pajamas outside bitches” and “wearing shoes that be talking bitches”, though. Talking shoes have got to GO.

10. While I won’t argue that it *may* be fake, I totally disagree the assertion that a third grader wouldn’t use the term “conceited” as evidence that it is fake. I’ve been working with girls ages 6-14 the past 5 years and there have been PLENTY of them in the 8-9 range (typical third grader) who used that term. Not all…by any stretch of the imagination, but some at least.

    In my experience, I wouldn’t be shocked if it did come from an elementary student of some age. The fact that this list exists at all, however, makes me really sad.

11. I might catch some crap for this, but I sort of like it. It’s really creative. There are things on this list that give me the impression that the writer is somewhat self-aware. Give her a few years and some encouragement and maybe the anger and creativity in this list could become awesome poetry.

12. “Seriously, what third grader could define “Conceited”, much less understand what “Conceited bitches” are?”

    Any third-grader who’s had the charge leveled at them by an adult? Which might put it out of a third-grade boy’s experience, but hardly a third-grade girl’s.

13. There’s no way a 3rd grader wrote this. If your average kid starts kindergarten at 5, then a typical 3rd grader would be about 8.

    It’s unlikely that kid that age would have the attention span to write out 90 kinds of bitches, longhand, in legible penmanship, and just for the fun of it.

    On top of that, we’re supposed to believe that such a precious document was just left lying around for a tipster to discover?

    As if.

14. You underestimate kids, seriously.

15. All the different ways I look at this, it just makes me depressed. This person is obviously extremely troubled, no matter what grade (I’d guess 6th, honestly). They’re also describing a lot of contemporary problems in society that you wouldn’t expect to be so apparent to her at that age (“White bitches that think black people poor”?? Jesus Christ, that is sad). The last thing I see is it exemplifies what’s important and what’s not inappropriate to this girl (“Can’t get a man bitches,” “Gay bitches”). Maybe that last one isn’t so surprising if she’s really that young, but still…

16. I still have the short stories I wrote in the third grade. The hand writing is similar and I definitely knew words like “conceited.”

    So yeah, what Lauren said.

17. I definitely think a third grader could think all these things, but honestly that penmanship is too amazing to be that of a third grader–then again, if it’s a third grader who is older than 8/9, then it’s entirely possible.

18. The penmanship is too good?? I have no idea if this note is legitimate, but that looks very accurate to the handwriting of that age both from my memory and from my 8yo brother’s handwriting. I had the reading age of 18+ at 9, and my peers were similar (yeah, “extension” class, yay elitism), so I really am surprised at people saying this couldn’t [i]possibly[/i] be written by a child.

    But yeah. Depressing.

19. Mmm – in third grade I had excellent handwriting, and plenty of vocabulary and concentration. Fortunately I didn’t get this angry at things for a few more years.

    But a third grader wouldn’t know “conceited”? My third grader does (just asked him), as did his brother at that age. Also “defenestrated”, “coniferous” and “penultimate”. I stumped him with “sesquipedalian”, but I’ll give you long odds that if I ask him again in a month, I won’t.

    This isn’t to say it might not be fake, but it’s not fake because a third grader couldn’t do it.

20. I think this girl has great potential. Although I was very sheltered when it came to the strong language and adult issues she’s dealing with, I was definitely writing at that level in third grade so it could be genuine.

    She clearly has the intelligence and gift of writing that, when paired with her life experiences and a bit of righteous anger, could take her far in life.

    I don’t pretend to understand the lives and culture of blacks living in poor neighborhoods. I’m a middle class white girl from the suburbs. But I still really dislike that calling women “bitches” “hoes” “skanks” etc has permeated the culture so thoroughly that little kids use it.

    I mean when I was eight, naming my rival in Pokemon Poopypants was pretty scandolous.

21. I kind of like it. I remember being nine years old and being that full of hate. To me, it seems like a creative attempt to express some of that anger and bitterness.

22. I almost cried when I read this. Happy tears. I think this ABSOLUTELY could’ve been written by a little black girl because it is soooo familiar to me. She speaks her language perfectly. Her grammar is perfection. When I was this age my teachers made us read out loud until we spoke like the “other” kids. I think the frustration & self-expression & humor in this list is stunning. The pace and timing is stunning. And I don’t really feel like the author(s) or anyone else needs to explain why. (PS. Angry-token-black-kid me would say “feminist bitches” falls under #86) /passive-aggressive rant

23. omg yall like you never did shit like this when you were a kid. i remember in my mostly white middle class catholic school in queens, my friends and i would write things like this (of course, we hid them in our backpacks so whatever). in fact we would mostly do it in groups, so i have a feeling that a list this long this was a girl with her friends fucking around. i’m not calling it a work of genius or anything here but i’m just saying, it’s not exactly out of the ordinary or even sad. most kids are raised by people who are very much not feminist or questioning of the culture or anything, so i’d say that the fact that this girl/these girls use the word ‘bitch’ says more about our culture than the potential of this child. come on people.

24. also, in a charter school which are supposed to be ‘better’ than public schools that are stuck with the state curriculum? you bet your ass a third grader probably knows the word ‘conceited.’ hell, even in a public school a kid probably would know that word.

25. Give third graders some credit, will you all? I don’t see anything on this list a third-grader would be incapable of understanding. A couple big words maybe, but let’s not lump all 8-year-olds into one big simple-minded category – otherwise we’re just a bunch of condescending bitches.

26. LOL @ anyone this makes “depressed.” Cute and funny.

27. Just chiming in with the last few commenters to say I’m quite willing to believe a young girl wrote this, and I’m not sure the existence of the note is, when you consider the world we live in, a terribly shocking thing.

    I’d be inclined to suspect it was the work of maybe a 5th or 6th grader, and maybe got passed to a 3rd grader, but I certainly wouldn’t put it past an elementary school kid or group of them.

    But more to the point: the views of (black) women expressed in the list are, undeniably, real things in the world. And, though awareness levels vary greatly, kids can be VERY sensitive to cultural ideas. I’ve seen this in kids I’ve tutored and in myself (though, being white, I picked up mainly on sexist rather than racist ideas). By the time I was in third grade (1993), I was quite aware of many sexist ideas: girls aren’t good at math and science, girls are supposed to be mothers, girls are passive/weak while boys are active/strong, not to mention the existence of gendered insults like bitch. I was vaguely aware that these ideas were considered by some people to be wrong (I think I had heard the word sexism), but I had neither a deep understanding of feminist ideas nor my own eventual moderate successes in male-dominated activities to give me confidence. As a result, the messages I assimilated went very deep, and I remember imagining and sometimes writing down these very self-hating, self-punishing things about women.

    So, to get back to the “bitches” list: Yes, I think it is the work of a girl who understands to a painful extent the views of black women in our culture. Part of me wants to say, “Look at this smart, perceptive girl, isn’t she awesome? Somebody quick give her a mentor and a scholarship!” and to note that the first step toward rejecting harmful ideas is understanding them. But part of me is sad, because she probably won’t get recognized as talented, and her very perceptiveness is probably going to make it hard for her to stay emotionally and spiritually safe while growing up.

28. But also not really worth all this attention and hysteria. Come on.

29. @RD: Well it is a feminist blog… seems like a good place to discuss such an interesting meditation on the polysemy of a gendered insult.

    Anyway, I can’t afford therapy, and this is a great excuse to self-centeredly navel-gaze and unpack my own childhood psychological traumas (see para. 3 of my comment) . 😉

30. @RD: And no, in the end, I’m not worried about the author of that list. She’s going to be a brilliant social critic someday. I just feel for her because when you understand things so sharply at that age, the world can be hard to handle.

31. Oh that was about “childhood trauma”? LOL you are so full of shit.

    1. RD, that was totally uncalled for. Cut it out, please.

32. Nope, can’t say I or my childhood friends ever wrote a list about all the types of women I hated (or disliked, however you choose to describe it). Or anything remotely similar.

    I have written lists of what I hate about myself; so maybe my perspective is skewed.

    Personally, yes, I find it depressing that a child would think like this. Maybe my own experiences are just too far off to understand it.

    (And I am going to use “depressing” because there is no equivilent – I have had Depression most of my life, the word “depression” is a useful word quite separate from my diagnosis.)

33. While I can’t say I ever wrote a list approaching this level of insight into my surroundings (for a 3rd grader), I definitely spent a good chunk of grade school writing out lists of people (mainly girls my age) I hated and thought should be punished. Once I encouraged a friend to do the same on the grounds that it would be therapeutic (as it was for me, marginally, at the time – hers was discovered and she was nearly expelled; zero tolerance, etc.). I wouldn’t say that this list in and of itself makes me weep for the young woman and her future, although I’m saddened by a glimmering of an understanding of the kind of hurt and pain that might motivate a child to produce this kind of writing. In my experience, it was always part of a desperate search for a voice, any kind of voice, for my anger, while simultaneously fearing the consequences of being heard. Then again, even that might be reading quite a bit into it – I also liked to write lists in general as a kid, and a list about the different kinds of “bitches” I may have encountered or heard about seems like it would be an interesting topic at that age, if somewhat off-putting now.

    I kind of like the follow-up commentary by the original poster of the list.

34. So what exactly do ppl find so upsetting about this in the first place? I re-read it and it just strikes me as the really,really normal thoughts of a young girl. A lot of the comments I read in the link and some here just seem completely ignorant of Black US American culture and US dialects (it’s not “bad English” it’s US Black American creole). The “this girl has such low self esteem” arguments are kind of just pathologizing blackness in my opinion. Talkin smack/dissin/playin the dozens is an African oral tradition that’s survived in EVERY New World Black-identified community. Not trying to say Black girls don’t struggle with self-esteem, but this list does not indicate some uniquely troubled author/authors. Just normal creative kids figuring out identity by mimicking oral styles if their community.

35. …And what Jadey said (cuz I’m a cosigning bitch).

36. (And I am going to use “depressing” because there is no equivilent – I have had Depression most of my life, the word “depression” is a useful word quite separate from my diagnosis.)

    Great, never really thought anyone was using it to mean clinical depression. It is still ridiculous that people find this “depressing.”

37. This isn’t believable from a third grader? It totally is to me.

    I never made lists like this but I remember talking smack about the other girls in my school. It was part of the mean girl phase and while it’s not something I’m proud of, it happened.

38. Hey, by the time I was in third grade I hated being around other girls. I felt like I was in enemy territory every time I was in an area with more than four girls.

39. I didn’t see it as depressing or even as “ZOMG I HATE HANGING AROUND OTHER GIRLS.” I saw it as something a kid probably wrote with her friends and they got carried away. I did shit like that all the time when I was a kid. It could be part of an in-joke, or result from something someone they looked up to said, or something they heard/saw on TV–argh, who knows?

    However, I don’t think it’s ridiculous that someone does find it depressing. Different strokes and all that.

40. @Lorelei: “even in a public school a kid probably would know that word”

    “even in a public school”??! SERIOUSLY? I’m sorry, I really really need to point out how completely ignorant and snobby that statement is.

41. Nope, can’t say I or my childhood friends ever wrote a list about all the types of women I hated (or disliked, however you choose to describe it). Or anything remotely similar.

    Personally, yes, I find it depressing that a child would think like this. Maybe my own experiences are just too far off to understand it.

    I agree with you. This is an awful lot of hostility for an 8 year old. And I seriously can’t believe that these feelings are common among young black girls. If it is, I’m even more depressed.

    he “this girl has such low self esteem” arguments are kind of just pathologizing blackness in my opinion.

    Um…what? The hostility and animosity don’t exactly indicate a healthy amount of self esteem.

    To be honest, I’m not sure if the list is real. But to everyone who thinks this girl will be a social critic/writer….. what if someone else would have written this about women? Would it be impressive? Funny? It’s a list of insults about other women. Like those lists “Why beer is better than women” or something.

    Am I missing something? I mean this question genuinely, not sarcastically. I’m really trying to draw the connection between hilarious and girl writes not so nice list about other girls.

42. I was a short hair bitch, so I’m guessing it was bitches like this who made many of my school days not to pleasant. Then again, I was actually a “bald-headed” (not really bald) bitch.

    And I just adore how contradictory many of the hair comments are.

43. oh for god’s sake Hannah that’s what the quotes were for ‘better.’ believe me if anyone thinks this snobby ass shit about ‘omg private/charter’ schools is stupid it’s me, it’s just very difficult to make a succinct explanation of exactly what i mean, so i thought the scare quotes would be enough. apparently not. i don’t remember if i wrote a blog post about my thoughts on ~*private schools*~ or not, but it is pretty much all over my blog how much i don’t give a fuck. so please, i am sick and i ran out of my meds so i am not in the mood for high drama, just please accept that i said what i had to say to get my word out quickly enough so i could grab a handful of tissues and not shoot myself. if you want to get to know me or something to REALLY convince you, you’re free to (Lorelei Black on facebook yall!) but seriously. you’re talking to someone who practically thinks non-public education should be shut down.

44. “Conceited” is a 3rd grade word, but how many 3rd graders are that acquainted with dick-riding and the smell of everyone else’s vagina? That’s what made me think she was older than 8 or 9.

45. It might be a third-grader with older friends. Or she might be getting into Mommy’s stash of dirty books- pardon me- ‘romance novels.’

46. A lot of underestimating of 3rd graders and words/concepts/insults they may be acquainted with. I wonder if no one else was subject to “tossed salad” jokes in third grades or “If so and so gave you a love letter, would you tear it up…..hahaha, you would tear it up.” Or 3rd graders, even 2nd graders, admitting they thought about sex/sexual acts when having their heads on their desks, or telling other people to close their legs b/c it smelled or calling someone butter teeth, etc.

47. The list is probably real and probably the product of multiple authors. What should concern us is where these kids heard these terms – likely from adults around them – and whether they are using them against their classmates (they probably are if I remember 3rd grade accurately). The teacher should spend some time discussing the list with his/her class and explaining to them why it is wrong to use language like this against others. It’s a form of bullying and should be addressed.

48. @S.L Yes, you’re missing a lot of things. Your confusion should give you pause and realize that, maybe, you don’t have the life experience to judge whether or not this list is realistic, hostile, depressing, or indicative of low self esteem. Please note the context of this whole conversation: mainstream, white, upper-class, feminist web community analyzing the psyche of anonymous Black girls from an anonymous piece of writing that was never meant to be seen or talked about outside of their own social group. A piece of writing that is VERY CLEARLY an in-group form of self-expression and solidarity. A solidarity that is probably a REALLY good survival tool for someone who is constantly studied, examined, and critiqued by an oppressive class of entitled, privileged, neocolonialist, white people. This is racial voyeurism to the max and I’m frankly getting increasingly disgusted by it.
    @Everyone: Jadey gave an excellent link that explained why maybe if you’ve never experienced life as a young girl of color in the inner-city you should proooobably just shut the hell up &keep it moving. Go read that link. The mere fact that you’re using words like “hostile,” “angry,” “sad,” “depressing,” to describe the voice of a CHILD OF COLOR should give you THE biggest fucking pause of all pauses. As a former Black girl in an inner-city, I feel like I, me, my community is being examined like animals in a zoo. And, yes, pathologized: “Look at the poor brown children and how they don’t orient themselves around our ideals of gender solidarity! They use the word bitch! They don’t even MENTION feminism in this ENTIRE list! This is a tragedy. Black girls are ANGRY and depressed! The End.” And now I feel like I’m just contributing to this cycle of never-ending mainstream scrutiny of little girls of color. Ugh. This is probably just not the community for me. Peace, ya’ll.

49. @S.L Yes, you’re missing a lot of things. Your confusion should give you pause and realize that, maybe, you don’t have the life experience to judge whether or not this list is realistic, hostile, depressing, or indicative of low self esteem. Please note the context of this whole conversation: mainstream, white, upper-class, feminist web community analyzing the psyche of anonymous Black girls from an anonymous piece of writing

    Don’t have the life experience?? Do you know me? My ethnicity? My class? This was not my experience. It is not indicative of high self esteem. If this list is real, it’s depressing. And insulting. And whoever wrote it is probably not a happy person. Because happy girls with high self esteem don’t write lists like this for fun.

    I have little sisters, and I remember the struggles of being a young girl. It breaks my heart that some young women and girls are struggling to fit in and feel accepted. That doesn’t make this list any more acceptable or insulting.

    BTW Shelby…not all black women have the same life experiences. Assuming I’m white and upper class because I find a list that intended to insult women….insulting – is pretty ridiculous.

50. Everything Shelby said x100.

    I’m not black, but I did go to public school in NYC, and I can totally imagine coming up with something like this with a gaggle of friends or passing it around my 3rd-grade classroom. Really, no one else wrote or passed around dirty notes or obscene drawings when they were 10? Or smack-talked? Or used grown-up ‘bad’ language they only half-understood?

    Honestly, I think this list is very funny. I just don’t get all the pearl-clutching. I feel like there’s a big culture gap, something that’s just not translating.

51. @S.L. I wasn’t assuming you to be a white upper class woman. I said the context of this conversation was taking place in a white woman space. I said 1)if you are so confused then 2)maybe you don’t have the life experience to judge the authors of this list. I said maybe you should take a step back and listen. And when I said life experience, I meant just that. Not life experience “as a white person.” The context of this conversation is one of white oppression no matter the races of individual commenters. I really am sorry that I didn’t make that clear in my other comment.
    I’m well aware all Black girls dont have the same life experience. That’s why I said I felt guilty for contributing to this conversation. I’m an upper-middle class, college-educated, US born Black woman and that gives me a certain amount of privilege even w/in the Black community. Which, again, is part of why I’m regretting even contributing to this discussion in this type of space.

    1. @Shelby: Please don’t go! I think you’re making some really good points here. And you’re right: it’s easy for a privileged discourse to take over, when we’re looking at something like this. I do feel kind of sad, when I look at the way some of the “bitches” are described — men leave them, or they’re poor, and that’s… why they’re bitches? — but it’s easy to Other that and not think of my own experiences as a middle-class white woman and how poor or “slutty” or bad-luck-with-the-dudes women were shamed.

52. @ Anony Mouse: “Really, no one else wrote or passed around dirty notes or obscene drawings when they were 10? Or smack-talked? Or used grown-up ‘bad’ language they only half-understood?”

    This is exactly what I’ve been thinking, I’m seriously mystified. (And I’m no New Yorker either; I grew up in small-town Ontario.) When I was eight, I had been called a bitch numerous times, I had heard words like “slut” and “pussy” and “fag,” and we used to all do this obscene hand gesture when we saw boys and girls talking to each other (making a “o” shape with the fingers in one hand and using the other hand to poke in and out of it.) We didn’t quite understand sex, of course, but sure as hell understood swearing. And I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, so I can only imagine the language on the playground these days.

    What I’m thinking is that some of these commenters never got picked on. Third-graders are incredibly capable of such vulgarity – trust me.

53. @Shelby: Your post to me did make things much clearer. Thanks 🙂 I genuinely do see your point and I think you are right that my life experience changes me perspective of the list.

    @Niki: Okay now I feel old. And I’m not that old!!! I really cannot remember hearing words like that in elementary school.

54. I find the list ingenious. I couldn’t even begin to compose such a list. It’s very insightful that this young person is so keenly aware of the different types of women in her environment – many of them not very positive images. I give the child mad props.

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