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Taylor Swift Flame

Jill

Is Taylor Swift bad for women? The F-Bomb says she is not a feminist dream! Because, well, she is maybe not so talented and she writes pretty much just about boys and she relies pretty heavily on the virgin/whore thing in her songs and videos. My one quibble is the idea that Swift isn’t a feminist dream because there are lots of better female artists out there, like La Gaga, and they should be getting more of the credit. That is true, but this is not a zero-sum game! The music industry is chock-full of really really crappy male artists to balance out the handful of really really good male artists, so I’m cool with having a bunch of really really crappy female artists, too. And yes, I would put Taylor Swift in that category, even though I think she is completely adorable. And for the record, I like my share of really really crappy artists, so if you like Taylor Swift? That’s ok! But songs with painfully trite lyrics like that over sweet little melodies? Entertaining no doubt, but not exactly Musical Genius. But again, that’s ok — women should have just as much room as men to make easily-marketable and widely-palatable musical Big Macs. The problem, of course, is that women don’t have as much room as men in the music industry, and so even the really talented ones either get funneled into the Sweet Girl With a Guitar box or dressed in a latex bikini. The fact that Swift plays the virgin isn’t her fault, personally, but it is a problem with her branding — which is why it’s important to keep the ensuing flame-age focused on the idea that we’re criticizing Taylor Swift as a musical brand created and marketed in a particular cultural context, and not Taylor Swift the surely very sweet and smart young woman.

Anyway, apparently not all feminists are in agreement that Taylor Swift is bad. The point, though, isn’t that we should feel bad for liking Taylor Swift because it somehow damages our feminist creds (did anyone say that?). Just that, you know, as feminists who write on the internet we analyze pop culture and stuff. And maybe Taylor Swift is not the best thing, feminism-wise. Kind of like how Nickleback is not the best thing, humanity-wise.

All of which is to say, I’m with what our girl Sady wrote way back in ’09. And also Kate Harding, because, of course. Autostraddle also has kind of an amazing post.

Although I’ll add that, despite my feeling that Swift is completely precious, I will always sort of hate her for allowing that travesty of a duet with Stevie Nicks to go on at the Grammy Awards. That is Stevie Nicks. Stevie Nicks does not sing back-up. And if she does back you up, you had better not be out of tune.

33 thoughts on Taylor Swift Flame

  2. I won’t lie, Taylor Swifts music is a guilty pleasure of mine. However I realize she is not the best artist out there and never will be. I don’t think it is anti-feminist to like her but it also doesn’t make you a feminist because let’s face it, she isn’t a feminist or sings about feminist values. It would be awesome if she did (she has a huge fanbase) however there is a better chance of it snowing in July in Fl.

  3. I am not a Taylor Swift fan.

    Some dear friends of mine are, and here’s what I see going on.

    They are hard-driving career women with a lot of pressure to be perfect, to succeed in male-dominated professions and make it look easy. When they take time off to relax, they invariably relax with frilly femininity — Taylor Swift, Twilight, One Tree Hill, etc. They call it a “guilty pleasure,” just like Lisa does. In their off hours, they’ll dream that romance might swoop in and make it all better; when they’re hard at work, they know it won’t. But they need to dream occasionally to keep themselves going.

    I’m not sure if this is feminist or anti-feminist. I don’t think it’s as simple a phenomenon as it’s often reduced to.

    I know it’s not how I operate. My fantasies are about having sex, not about Taylor Swift-style romance; I think I’m luckier than my friends in that I actually have a decent chance of making my fantasies come true. Taylor Swift (and all the rest of modern “girly” culture) leaves me totally cold. But she’s somebody’s joy.

  4. I like Taylor Swift. She’s cute and her songs grow on you. Her songs aren’t amazing, but I think there’s room for growth. I don’t think that her songs are the most feminist thing in the world, but I don’t usually find them particularly offensive on that level.

  5. I don’t really understand why there is so much pressure put on this young woman. The poetry I wrote at her age wasn’t exactly feminist progressive either. Give her time to mature and grow.

    It is fluffy feel good music. This sort of superficiality usually annoys me but I’m ok with Taylor. She doesn’t claim to be anything else, and she can actually play guitar and write songs.

    Honestly I found Avril Lavigne’s pseudo-alternative girl routine more damaging. It’s all the more insidious because she was claiming to be some big rebel then falling back on the old “I stole your boyfriend” trope that pitches women against each other.

  6. I’ve only ever heard one song of hers (which, incidentally, I happen to like…I’m a sucker for catchy tunes), so I can’t say much about her musically. However, I’ve read about her speaking out against bullying (being a former victim herself, apparently) and homophobia. I admire her a little for those.

  7. What I think is antifeminist is bashing a twenty year old girl for writing songs about what she knows. She’s got a lot to learn, and a lot of growing up to do. I respect her for staying true to herself in the course of her career, and for coming across as a genuine person. In today’s music industry, its hard to come out on top without showing a lot of tits and ass, and I respect that so far she’s done neither.

  8. I like Taylor Swift because she writes a lot of her own music. And I think the song “Tim McGraw” is actually really good, and I’m impressed that she wrote it when she was still in high school. When you factor in her age, she is an above average song writer and she is writing songs that make sense for her age and personality. And perhaps as she matures and learns more, she will become an even better song writer; that is if she can withstand all the people who seem intent on tearing her down.

  9. The thing that most annoys me about Taylor Swift (or, should I say, posts about Taylor Swift) are the commenters who inevitably come out of the woodwork whining about how much they LOVE Taylor and how whoever’s criticizing her just doesn’t understand. Odd, to think that people who’ve spent quite a bit of time thinking critically and engaging with the ideas her work brings up should be accused of not understanding.

  10. While I *probably* like at least one of her songs (on the assumption I’ve actually heard one given the dearth of newish music around me lately), I’m commenting here because I have one basic rule about the whole “is so and so good/bad for Feminism” thing.

    No one can be “bad” for feminism unless they really are actively trying to end the freedom of a woman to be who and what she chooses to be.

    A prairie muffin who’s doing her thing is just as much a feminist as I am (and I don’t call myself one with the whole capital F because I’ve been told far too often I’m just not good enough or woman enough to be such).

    It’s when that gal gets up and tries to make other women do it *her* way that she undermines the wonder of the 3 billion ways to be a woman on this planet.

    The act of judging a woman on the basis of her living her life the way she wants to and doing things her way is, to me, personally, a way to be bad for feminism.

    Because what it strikes me as that person doing is trying to make them do things a certain way or to have them behave in an acceptable way, and for me, at least, that defeats the core tenets.

    Then again, I’m probably the last person anyone ever wants to ask something like that of, lol

  11. I’m curious who said she was a “feminist dream.” She’s a pop singer. She is (I believe) part of a fairly conservative Christian family, so her lyrics and videos really aren’t a surprise. I don’t agree with the overall philosophy or the maddonna-whore BS, but that’s not all on Swift (who’s only 15 and has plenty of time to grow and change as a person).

    I don’t think she “embodies” what wrong with pop culture today–good Lord, most of the pop singers out there are pretty trite, and there have been Grammy winners that made me wonder what the basis of the awards were.

  12. I am not really that familiar with Taylor Swift, but I saw her perform an Alan Jackson song once and was blown away. So I think there is some real talent there. And I understand she writes her own songs as well — though whether they are particularly good is another question, of course.

    I am also aware that Taylor Swift gets a lot of mileage out of being a Sweet Young Thing, i.e. her innocent, good-girl persona. I don’t think that’s really her fault — it is just a kind of feminine persona our culture likes to see in young women, and it is an internalized response for many women to oblige, especially at that age.

    I suspect Taylor Swift has plenty of raw talent, and shouldn’t be judged too harshly in light of how young she is. Isn’t she only 19? The problem is that because she became famous so young for this saccharine sweet schtick, she might ossify where she is now, rather than maturing into a more interesting singer-songwriter. We can only wait and see.

  14. Just fyi — she’s a little over twenty. There’s a lot of “but she’s so YOUNG!” that happens around Taylor Swift. I’m not denying that twenty is young and that she has some growing to do, but she’s not a child. Twenty year olds are not so young that they must be coddled constantly and the wider implications of their music must never be mentioned. They can handle some grown-up analysis.

  15. I’m not sure I’ve actually heard any of her music, but what I’m wondering is, has Taylor Swift said she aspires to write feminist music or be a feminist icon or even is a feminist?

  16. Well, I don’t particularly like or dislike her songs. I think I would have gone crazy for her videos when I was five, though, and she still appeals to my inner sparkly unicorn lover.
    I do find it interesting to hear that she was pulled out of public school at age fifteen, when her song and video of the same name presents a somewhat romantic image of a public High School.
    I don’t know whether she deserves all those awards or not, but it’s hardly news that an artist I don’t care for is winning awards.

    As far as soft spoken female country singer/songwriters go, Angela Rose of the Blushin’ Roulettes is way better:
    http://www.myspace.com/motherpluckers
    (Yeah, just plugging my new favorite band. I hope that’s ok.)

  17. I’m not sure I’ve actually heard any of her music, but what I’m wondering is, has Taylor Swift said she aspires to write feminist music or be a feminist icon or even is a feminist?

    Not the point. Some folks show up to say she’s a new feminist icon, Jill questions that.

    And I agree, a grown woman of influence can withstand a little criticism, especially considering she has a much larger soapbox from which to respond.

  18. Nobody’s bashing Swift. She’s just a thoroughly mediocre artist whose critical acclaim outstrips her achievements. Swift might get better, but she hasn’t even shown enough promise to justify the hype.

    Swift’s never going to get more feminist, though, because that would play against the formula that made her famous. Not that every artist has to be feminist. Let’s start with being good, shall we? Everything after that is gravy.

    Taylor’s fans love her because she panders to them. If she stopped pandering, what would she have left? She can’t sing all that well, and she can’t write for shit.

    As far as we know, she’s just not talented enough to succeed on her own terms. She seemingly lacks the capacity to give anything beyond what her fans already like about her.

    So far, she’s not really an artist, she’s just a performer. And her record label has no incentive to help her develop any artistic talent. Excellence doesn’t fit with her brand. If Swift started laying down killer guitar riffs or writing clever lyrics, she’d intimidate the people who buy her records.

    Swift’s completely dependent on the promotional apparatus of the record label. They’re not going to let her grow as an artist because that’d be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

  21. “Just fyi — she’s a little over twenty. There’s a lot of “but she’s so YOUNG!” that happens around Taylor Swift. I’m not denying that twenty is young and that she has some growing to do, but she’s not a child. Twenty year olds are not so young that they must be coddled constantly and the wider implications of their music must never be mentioned. They can handle some grown-up analysis.”

    Yes, this annoys the hell out of me. I loved that autostraddle post where the author says something about how strange it is that, at 20, Swift looks a full decade younger than Lady Gaga, at 23. And we tend to treat her that way too–like she’s some kind of precious child prodigy when she’s actually a grown up. She’s young, sure, but she’s not *that* young. And even if she *were* ever a child prodigy, I can’t see how “Fifteen” could ever be considered the work of an artistic genius, for the love of god.

    Also, she maintains a lot of important connections to her Christian Right formerly-homeschooling family. She writes songs about girls who have premarital sex and says that they have “given away all they had.” She spreads this Purity meme everywhere she goes, and seeing as how she’s *not* 14, this isn’t some kind of accident of femininity. She’s old enough to know how she’s being marketed and to make some decisions about how that happens.

  22. My longer comment is in moderation, but I must also say… I also despise the way that she’s marketed as writing “for and about high school girls.” Her high school life has *nothing* to do with anything I ever experienced in high school. Let’s be honest: She writes for white, upper middle class, het, cis girls of a certain temperament (the kind who feel moved by imagery having to do with rainbows and rain showers). She writes for people who have not begun to relate to the world in a critical way, and frankly? It takes a *lot* of privilege to get to high school without beginning to thank critically.

  23. And ALSO… The fact that her writing is so unrecognizable to me might be a function of the fact that she didn’t go to high school in the first place. She was homeschooled.

  25. Whether or not she’s good or bad for feminism is sort of beside the point. I think she’s untalented and that she writes mindless, consumer-driven shite.

  26. See, this is why it bothers me whenever a feminist site posts something about Taylor Swift. That comment has nothing to do with feminism, as you’ve made clear, and a lot of the anti-Taylor Swift comments have nothing to do with feminism. It just doesn’t make sense to me how many people use a feminist forum to simply bash some woman they don’t like with comments that have nothing to do with feminism.

    I think it was on this website a few weeks ago that I read a post of “mean girls” and how that behavior carries over from high school into adult hood, with women just feeling compelled to bash other women in a way they wouldn’t do to men. The amount of people who take time to comment simply to say “OMG her music sux!” is really illustrative of that point.

  28. Awards are a zero-sum game, and women that dislike Taylor and criticize her music – that’s just good taste. In any case, it’s great to demand more from award winning artists. And it’s great to really get into music criticism, which should not be just the domain of guys reviewing guys.

    I think the Grammy’s jumped the shark by giving her the best of the year award. Come on. It’s one thing liking a little confection that reminds you of pep squad. It’s another saying she’s a great artist. Her depth is the wading pool, and most of what she writes about: guys, bleachers, school games and hallways, she never even experienced being home schooled. And teh evil in her songs – always the uppity girl enjoying the boys in any I’ve heard. And her being so plain and non-sex giving that the boys hardly notice. Ok, she’s done that, but writing repeating stories about high school and people not paying attention to her at 22, she’s about wrung that rag out.

    Her singing talent, without artificial pitch correction is…well what you saw with her and Stevie Nicks. I’m sure that all of this put her in the league with Eric Clapton or Stevie Nicks. At least that is what the award implies. Embarrassing. Particularly when Beyonce Pink and Gaga blew her away that evening. Tina Turner should have come out and knocked that award out of her hands and give her something to write about.

  29. Erin: Well, my comment which is still in moderation is related to feminism.

    I’m not bashing her as an individual person. I’m sure she’s nice. I’m bashing her as a commercial product.

  30. Incidentally, I’m supportive of the message in “White Horse” — even though it’s still not great music (which, as Erin says, is not really the point), the point of the song seems to be “it’s better not to have a boyfriend than to have a boyfriend who treats you badly, and it’s more important for a boy to treat you well than to be a fairy tale prince. Also, it’s possible for a boy to seem like a fairy tale and not, in fact, lead to a happily-ever-after ending!” It’s a very different message from most of her other songs — so in this particular case, I say well done Taylor.

  31. I’m not really a Taylor Swift fan or notfan (although I do find her absolutely adorable. Seriously, I’d love to carry her around in my purse just to look at when I need a pick-me-up). I’m not really a country-music fan. But I’ve seen the occasional interview with her, and she seems to have her stuff together, which is refreshing, and she writes her own songs and plays her own instruments, which is refreshing. Her music? Meh. Can’t comment.

    1. I don’t get all of these people saying (what reads to me as), “She’s antifeminist because she’s a crappy songwriter and a crappy singer and she still wins awards over singers who are better!” Not living up to your own hype isn’t antifeminist, it’s just… getting a lot of attention and not being talented enough to warrant it, I guess. If the good girl’s album gets an award over the edgy girl’s album, it’s not the good girl’s fault that the Academy has crappy taste.

    2. High school is more than a decade in the past for me, so many of the memories have been repressed, but a lot of what she sings about would resonate with naive 15-year-old ACG. Full disclosure: I grew up white/cis/het/comfortably wealthy, so the challenges I faced weren’t comparable to the challenges of a lot of other people. But that’s also the case with most of Taylor’s fans. From what I’ve seen of her concerts, you couldn’t exactly shoot a Benetton ad in the audience. She writes what she knows for teenagers who also know it. In time, she’ll know more, and I’m assuming she’ll write about those things. Not everyone has to be edgy fringe.

    3. There’s nothing wrong with wearing pants and not singing thinly veiled songs about sexual activity. (And I don’t want that to be taken as a criticism of Lady Gaga. I love Lady Gaga, and her explanation about her grandmother and not wearing pants was sweet.) I cringe when I see Miley Cyrus in short-shorts swinging around a pole not because sexuality shouldn’t be celebrated but because the tweens in her audience don’t have a context for understanding it yet. Kids don’t need to hear don’t touch yourself or think about boys or Jesus will hate you, but it doesn’t hurt for them to hear if you don’t feel ready to jump into a sexualized relationship, it’s okay and still cool. The idea is for them to know their options and ultimately pick the one they’re comfortable with.

    4. Maybe she’s a virgin in public and in private, maybe she’s secretly gettin’ it on. We won’t know until we see the sex tape, but I don’t dig assuming she’s a hypocrite unless we have good reason.

    5. Not everything in the world can be divided into “feminist dream” or “feminist nightmare.” Some things are just feminist-neutral. Popcorn. Warm socks. The Honda Pilot. Banjos. And it’s possible that Taylor Swift fits into that category. If she does the purity thing because she really is that virginal, and if she writes fairly shallow songs for fairly shallow teenagers because that’s what she grew up with, there’s room for it in the world. When she starts criticizing women for not choosing her choices, I’ll certainly revisit this topic, but until then, I’m just going to open up my purse here and look at her for a minute. Munchkin.

  32. I dunno about thes whole “She’s only 20!” thing. I’m twenty, and I
    don’t listen to or WRITE songs like she does. Your average 20 year old girl probably cannot relate to Taylor.

    @ACG
    Banjos can totally be feminist.

  33. I’m 28 and I relate to Taylor Swift songs and find them quite empowering.

    Taylor Swift sings about relationships, but so does Lady Gaga. Paparazzi and Bad Romance are completely about relationships, and dysfunctional ones at that. Taylor Swift sings about relationships and self-confidence. “Shoulda Said No” was one of the coolest songs I had heard in a long time. There aren’t many country songs that tell women that a cheating boyfriend is not their fault and should be dumped. She’s country singer, and a damn good one. Taking her songs out of their genre and comparing them against some feminist model makes no sense. In the context of country music, her songs are just as good and feminist as Loretta Lynn’s, if not even more feminist. Country music IS all about relationships. Criticizing her for that is like criticizing Mozart for writing music to be played on a piano.

    Also, Taylor may be 20 now, but a lot of her songs have been around quite a while. It took a few years for pop radio stations to play them. I’ve been listening to her on the country radio stations for over 5 years. She was quite young when she got famous, so she gets treated just like Leann Rimes did. She’s not an over-sexualized pop singer, so she doesn’t get treated like one. There is nothing unusual about her except how catty certain “feminists” are towards her.

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