In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Bike Seats May Have Sexual Side Effects

Jill

I’m tempted to make a “banana seat” pun right now, but I’ll refrain.

A raft of new studies suggest that cyclists, particularly men, should be careful which bicycle seats they choose.

The studies add to earlier evidence that traditional bicycle saddles, the kind with a narrow rear and pointy nose, play a role in sexual impotence.

Well. We’ll get to the “especially men” part in a second.

The area in question is the perineum, between the external genitals and the anus. “When you sit on a chair you never put weight on the perineum,” Dr. Schrader said. “But when you sit on a bike, you increase pressure on the perineum” sevenfold.

In men, a sheath in the perineum, called Alcock’s canal, contains an artery and a nerve that supply the penis with blood and sensation. The canal runs along the side of a bone, Dr. Goldstein said, and when a cyclist sits hard on a narrow saddle, the artery and the nerve are compressed. Over time, a reduction of blood flow can mean that there is not enough pressure to achieve full erection.

In women, Dr. Goldstein said, the same arteries and nerves engorge the clitoris during sexual intercourse. Women cyclists have not been studied as much, he added, but they probably suffer the same injuries.

(emphasis mine)

So… why should “particularly men” be careful? That’s right, because women haven’t been studied as much, even though we might suffer the exact same injuries.

Why am I not surprised? The fact that it may cause sexual dysfunction in men garners a dozen studies and a two page article in the New York Times; the fact that it may cause sexual dysfunction in women gets one sentence. The rest of the article discusses the health effects for “cyclists,” all of whom, apparently, are proud owners of progressively limper penises. And before anyone starts accusing me of being anti-man, I’m not saying in any way that the article shouldn’t have been written or that the studies shouldn’t have been done. I’m glad they were; now I know not to date bicyclists*. It’s a big deal that a common recreational activity could lead to impotence and sexual performance problems, so I’m happy to see it’s being covered. I just wish they would have included the ladies, too. We like our wee-wees to work as much as you like yours to.

And as a final, general bitching point, I’m sick of women getting the short end of the stick on all the sexual dysfunction studies and solutions (and medical studies in general, but that’s another post). Guy has trouble keeping it up, drug companies pour millions into creating Viagra and other similar drugs. A substantial percentage of women have never orgasmed in their lives, and they get… I dunno, KY, to at least make the process less painful? It’s a crock.

UPDATE: Well, not everyone is ignoring women’s health. But, seriously, Crisco? Thanks to Jess for the link.

*Just kidding, numb-nuts.

71 thoughts on Bike Seats May Have Sexual Side Effects

  2. The reasons that there are less practical treatments for female sexual dysfunction are:

    1. Greater demand for a cure for male sexual dysfunction; it’s a more recognized, simple, fundamental problem when a man’s equipment won’t mechanically work.

    2. Female sexual dysfunction is much, much more complex than male sexual dysfunction, which, again, is primarily a mechanical problem. As far as mechanics go, to the extent that female dysfunction is a similarly mechanical problem, use of viagra (etc) can help. To the extent that we know about underlying hormonal influences, VERY mild dosages of testosterone will spur a woman’s sex drive. (VERY mild)

    3. To the extent that it’s a more complex psychophysiological problem, there are no smoking gun treatments because of the complexity. Figuring out sexual arousal (with all of the neurotransmitters, enzymes and hormones involved) is more akin to the challenge of figuring out Alzheimmer’s rather than the alternate route of how to increase and maintain blood flow to the genitalia.

    But never fear, there is hope. Currently in development is a drug called PT-141 that works on the “desire” portion of sexual arousal, in both men and women. It’s a synthetic peptide based off of the hormone that causes you to generate pigment, triggered by the sun.

    In the meantime, take a walk on a sunny day. Let the sun goddess’s soothing rays eradicate the spectre of the patriarchy’s insidious influence over your spectrum of choices for artificial sexual stimulation.

  5. OK, Jill, you don’t make a banana seat pun, and I’ll overlook the following.

    a sheath in the perineum, called Alcock’s canal

    I will not point and laugh at the fact that there’s a thing inside the taint that’s called an Alcock’s canal, that ends up leading to, well… you know.

    Deal?

  6. Why no focus on female sexuality? One simple answer presents itself: the taboo around female orgasm. A woman having an orgasm is not essential to procreation; ergo, it gets ignored.

    Sure, things are changing. The sex positive movement is gaining steam, and frank discussion about sexuality is becoming more common. But nationally, we’re still at the giggly teenager stage of sex talk. The marketing of pharmaceuticals like Enzyte is itself a major victory over our traditional Puritanism.

    Ah well. At least someone in South Africa takes the best interests of women to heart.

  7. Actually, the vast majority of female sexual dysfunction is much less complicated–it’s caused by people like Bill always blathering on about how difficult and impossible it is for women to come, meaning that women in general feel really guilty about even asking their partners to put forward the effort. And that’s on top of the fear and hatred towards our bodies to begin with.

    I’m a bona fide “skank” and even I have found myself laying there sort of bored and afraid to ask for something simple to get me there for fear of emasculating my partner. Now imagine what it’s like for most women, who are scared to even say the word “feminist” and you have a grip on the problem.

    Male dysfunction is usually age-related and medical in origin, which makes it more complex. But quite a few women suffer from something that just needs a mental adjustment.

  9. For what it’s worth, there are bicycle seats for both men and women that have a cut-out in the middle to accommodate the perineum. I don’t quite understand why there’s a new study on this; the possible detrimental effects of banana seats have been known for years.

  10. Uh…huh-huh….Alcock’s canal…huh-huh….

    Oh I laughed at that too, and considered mentioning it in the post, but I figured I had gone too far already.

  12. Male dysfunction is usually age-related and medical in origin, which makes it more complex. But quite a few women suffer from something that just needs a mental adjustment.

    Men can take a little blue pill to make their dicks work for a bit, but no pill can convince women that they should be she-spooging all over creation every night.

  13. I think Bill’s implication is not that it’s difficult and impossible for women to come, but that a pill to treat a mechanical problem is easier to make than trying to change the tide of male opinion. You may say, “I don’t need a pill, I need a guy who’s willing to pack a lunch and stay down there as long as it takes,” but unfortunately the prevalent male attitude isn’t so easily swayed.

  14. Actually I think there is another, somewhat legitimate, reason why this particular problem is much better studied in men, though the article doesn’t mention it. I’m pretty sure that the same artery that supplies the penis also supplies the testicles, and contriction of that artery, in addition to causing sexual dysfunction, can, over a long period of time, cause infertility, which it can’t cause in women. Why doctors consider this more important is up in the air. I like to think it’s because doctors find it easier to test guys’ sperm count than to ask whether they can get it up or not, but then I always like to assume incompetence over malice.

  17. I’m a bona fide “skank” and even I have found myself laying there sort of bored and afraid to ask for something simple to get me there for fear of emasculating my partner.

    see? this is where that great American work ethic should kick in. you know, how a fella, as the big, macho breadwinner should roll up his sleeves, put his nose to the grindstone (so to speak) and make it happen.

    even if it takes hours. or you know, we make it take hours even if it wouldn’t. because us American boys are hard workers. hell, just to be sure, we should double check our work. tote that barge, lift that bail. because we’re hardworking Americans, Union men, who do the job right, and can do the job the boss asks for better than any scab piece of machinery.

    You know, right about now, I think my IWW membership card is the sexiest thing I own.

  18. Actually, the vast majority of female sexual dysfunction is much less complicated–it’s caused by people like Bill always blathering on about how difficult and impossible it is for women to come, meaning that women in general feel really guilty about even asking their partners to put forward the effort.

    As much as I think you’re an idiot, Amanda, I have to admit that was funny.

    Wait, you weren’t joking? You obviously haven’t been with many of the right men. You know, ones that give a shit how you feel.

    Male dysfunction is usually age-related and medical in origin, which makes it more complex. But quite a few women suffer from something that just needs a mental adjustment.

    It’s not more complex, silly woman – it’s been essentially SOLVED in 85% of the (male) population. Little blue pill? You know, pop it and presto chango? THAT’S “simple.”

    A “mental adjustment” is much harder to attain. Some women aren’t comfortable with sex or their partners, and some – that’s right, some – have a genetic difficulty achieving orgasm.

    male sexual dysfunction, which, again, is primarily a mechanical problem

    Remind me not to consult you for medical advice.

    Why is that? Do you only dig holistic witch doctors that put incense-burning bamboo shoots in your penis or something? Age-related sexual dysfunction in men that is treatable is typically a matter of mechanics and declining hormones. The little blue pill blocks some enzymes that keep the penis from filling up, and BANG, problem solved.

    Other types sexual dysfunction (in men and women) are typically

    1. hormonal

    2.mental, specifically anxiety-related

    The hormonal issue is easy to address with synthetic hormones. The anxiety problem – performance anxiety – less so. It’s complex. Ever notice how you get horny when you get drunk? The alcohol is addressing this problem, lessening anxiety, while unfortunately diminishing the functional aspect by dilating your blood vessels. A catch-22.

    Which is the whole point – mechanical sexual dysfunction – the genitals filling up with blood – is fairly easy and simple to address.

    Loss of sex drive due to hormonal imbalances/deficits – relatively easy to address (easier for men than women, as they don’t hand out dosages of testosterone appropriate for women that often)

    Mental/anxiety problems, random physiological problems that haven’t been mapped yet – very difficult and complex to address.

  19. Bill, you silly man.

    You obviously have no grasp of logic. How does a problem being more complicated mean less time and money should be spent researching it?

    You obviously haven’t been with many of the right men. You know, ones that give a shit how you feel.

    This would be the kind of man that would call a woman an idiot? Or are you also in the category of wrong kind of man? ‘Cause generally you can’t give a shit how people feel without listening to them tell you how they feel and trying to understand them. You don’t do it by dismissing her view.

  20. Why is that? Do you only dig holistic witch doctors that put incense-burning bamboo shoots in your penis or something?

    Yeah, that’s it. I call you on your moronic handwaving and therefore I must be an altie.

    A little clue: I called you pathetic, not homeopathetic.

    Age-related sexual dysfunction that is treatable

    Ah. Just as I suspected. Next up: “treatable age-related, sexual-dysfunction-related program activities.”

  21. afraid to ask for something simple to get me there for fear of emasculating my partner.

    Now this “emasculating” thing is what I don’t get. In my experience men like it when they can get their partner off — it makes them feel successful and happy, and rightly so. Are there really men out there whose sexual identity is so fragile that it shatters at the sound of “darling, could you do this some more, mmm, I like that, you’re making me feel great”, who take that as a blow to their prowess? If women are afraid to ask for pleasure, is that really down to fear of how his ego will take it, or is it fear of being revealed as a woman who likes sex, with all those cultural complications and ye olde internalised virgin/whore stereotyping? (I mean this as a general train of thought, not ad feminam!)

  22. “Guy has trouble keeping it up, drug companies pour millions into creating Viagra and other similar drugs. A substantial percentage of women have never orgasmed in their lives, and they get… I dunno, KY, to at least make the process less painful? It’s a crock.”

    Well, after all, men have infinite amounts of money to spend on the resulting drugs, whereas women, being barefoot, pregnant & stuck in the kitchen, obviously don’t have any money to spare. So it’s just capitalism in action, right? Oh, and there are _much_ better products than KY available, I’m glad to say.

    (actually, whoever comes up with a female equivalent of viagra is likely to be onto a capitalist bonanza to make the eyes spin, but that’s another story).

  23. to, uh, come back to the bike seat issue there are also bike seats available that are wider, structured so you’re sitting on your pelvic bones instead of the perineum – far more comfortable and less likely to cause other problems. Never standard equipment of course.

    And much as I hate to say it, Bill is partly right about female orgasmic issues being harder to solve. That said, why is it that so many studies address male physiology as the norm?? Yes it’s simpler but so what! I hold out hope in about a generation because there are more women in med school than men now, particularly in some areas of specialty and hopefully, eventually, that will translate to more women centered research down the line. That is if there continues to be research funding and the whole thing doesn’t just fall apart as the wingnuts gut the government.

  24. I agree that we overwhelmingly focus on men’s “sexual dysfunction issues, but I think the exact opposite is true for infertility.

    That’s because it’s considered unnatural for a woman not to reproduce. But orgasm? We don’t need that, right?

  25. Sorry ladies, but in the grand scheme of propagation the female orgasm is merely a lagniappe. It’s nice if you get it, but the babies will pop out just fine without it.

  26. Sorry ladies, but in the grand scheme of propagation the female orgasm is merely a lagniappe. It’s nice if you get it, but the babies will pop out just fine without it.

    Sorry, fellas, but in the grand scheme of things most women will make babies only a few times, if at all but we can orgasm multiple times in a row and if you can’t do it for us, we can do it just fine without you.

  27. I call you on your moronic handwaving

    What exactly constituted mornic handwaving?

    Notice that you have twice called me names yet have not (directly) addressed the information that I’ve presented.

    Ah. Just as I suspected. Next up: “treatable age-related, sexual-dysfunction-related program activities.”

    You seem to imply that my specification of “Age-related sexual dysfunction that is treatable” is splicing finely, revealing the weakness of my initial point. This implication is incorrect. Why?

    Because “age-related sexual dysfunction that is treatable” is by far the most vastly common form of MALE sexual dysfunction. Therefore, my initial generalization – addressing the great demand for and simplicty of solving this form of male sexual dysfunction was fairly reasonable and accurate. Personally, I can only imagine that your knowing objection to my characterization about “mechanics” being the culprit is based in personal experience with sexual dysfunction (hey, every man has at some point in his life, right?), but if the problem is chronic and you are pre-middle age, it is not a particularly common or “normal” state of being. Get thee to an endocrinologist and/or urologist, and, failing that, a psychologist.

    In addition, I’ve gone on to detail the various other known mechanisms of sexual dysfunction, and if you’ll talk to a GP, urologist, endo or sexual health psychologist, I’m confident they’ll have my back. Hey, I even gave you some links!

    Now go ahead and call me a “know-nothing poo-poo head that waves his hands.”

    I know you want to.

  28. I am confused as to why a “simple” medical condition gets all the money and attention and repeated studies, especially if we have “easy” solutions for it, while a “complex” one does not.

    Even if you think of scientists as lazy (I don’t), it seems at the very least there’d be more money to make out of the grants and research studies with a complicated problem.

    That is, unless you think there’s no demand for a solution, or that the problem/patients are not worth the effort.

    Or unless the assumptions about “simple” and “complex” were false in the first place.

  29. I am confused as to why a “simple” medical condition gets all the money and attention and repeated studies, especially if we have “easy” solutions for it, while a “complex” one does not.

    One is profitable and the other is not.

  30. Or unless the system is still slighting female problems like it always has. Male impotence is “crippling problem,” but since a woman’s orgasm has always been underappreciated and ignored, there’s no reason to think that people will stand up and start paying attention.

    You’ll also notice that the perception pushed by marketing departments is that a woman’s pleasure is dependent solely upon the man’s erection. Cialis commercials? The guy’s boner makes the wife sparkle with joy: riiiight.

    Like it or not, scientific research is rarely self-funded, and oftentimes the source of its funds is just as coloured by public perception as anything else.

  31. Question: what proportion of bike-riders are men and women and what proportion women? I have no intelligible guess, but if it’s the case that riding of bicycles in amounts significant to be relevant to this study are more slated towards one gender, that would explain why not as many studies have focused on women.

    In other news, it’s not clear whether the “injuries” referred to at the end of page 1 that are probably common amongst men and women is in reference to getting an erection/being aroused or impotence, or both. It appears as though it’s in reference to being aroused, which is secondary in the article to the issue of impotence for which the supply of blood to the penis in women isn’t ordinarily possible.

  32. It may well be considered more profitable, but that raises a whole nest of worms that has nothing to do with the mechanics of male and female impotence.

    Is it that researchers don’t believe that women would pay to have properly functioning sexual organs?

    Is it that women have been socially conditioned to believe that their orgasms are optional extras?

    Is it that men have been socially conditioned to think of themselves as being defined by their sexual prowess?

    This all gets back to the original issue: men’s sexual needs are being presented and perceived as more valuable than women’s.

    Referencing their biological differences as an explanation doesn’t change that.

  33. Sorry ladies, but in the grand scheme of propagation the female orgasm is merely a lagniappe. It’s nice if you get it, but the babies will pop out just fine without it.

    Comments like this disprove the whole chose-to-be-gay myth. Really, what woman would chose this over apparantly quite effective lesbian sex? Those ladies are like experts, and this guy’s like, a dumbass.

  34. It is funny untill you ride a bicycle all day long and end up numb from the waist down. Then people make fun of you and call you numb nuts and you then suffer from low self esteem due to your numb nuts and the next thing you know you are seeking thousands of dollars of therapy for your numb nut problems.

    😉

  35. Sorry, fellas, but in the grand scheme of things most women will make babies only a few times, if at all but we can orgasm multiple times in a row and if you can’t do it for us, we can do it just fine without you.

    Somebody gets it. Women can orgasm just fine without men, and men can orgasm just fine without women. Therefore, sex => babies and the rest you can handle by yourself, so quit complaining.

  36. Bill, I think that the problem arose when you referred to female sexual discomfort as a problem that is extremely difficult to solve, while simultaneously insulting Amanda’s taste in men and her reliability as a source of information on what it’s like to be a heterosexual woman. With all due respect, I don’t think you’ve slept with many straight men.

    It’s true that lots of women have deep-seated feelings of shame around sex that can prevent them from having fulfilling sex. It’s also true that most men and women haven’t thought about female sexuality as anything other than the passive counterpart to penetrative heterosexual intercourse. Unless and until more people start thinking of the female orgasm as something other than a lagniappe, it’ll be difficult to figure out how many women might actually have a genetic inability to orgasm. There is a pill-esque solution to this problem: basic education in the mechanics of the female body. And yet, there’s no public-health interest in figuring out exactly how lousy most male partners are, or exactly how best to teach them.

    Also, while it’s true that female sexual dysfunction is less physiological than psychological, that doesn’t mean that women wouldn’t also be affected by a physiological hazard. Whether or not a woman is having good sex now, she certainly deserves the option of good sex later on.

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  38. Rana, perhaps the money and attention is spread more evenly than it appears, it’s just that the results come about more quickly for the more simple problem.

    I’d also postulate that because of the emotional connections to female climax, that birth control and other hormonal “tweaks”, as well as other medicines (antidepressants, etc.) may play a huge role. Men don’t take birth control or HRT and their orgasms are more mechanical than emotional in origin, so male potency and orgasm are less prone to be adversely affected by these factors.

    The other side of the coin is that the things that may inhibit female orgasm (stress, fatigue, etc.) also inhibit male sexual drive, and I don’t think that the ED meds do anything for non-physiological impotence.

    Male and female sexual dysfunction aren’t limited to whether something “works” or not, and debating a perceived inequality between research efforts as if ED meds are the definitive answer to male sexual dysfunction.

  39. around here we say sarcastically “science marches on” when presented with a study that offers “well duh” info. what can science say about people who ride bikes with seats that cause pain and numbness? is it evidence of devolution? is we becoming stupider?

  40. To slightly drift, I’ll second Eleanor’s comments re: a woman telling a man what she likes.

    I personally don’t see it as emasculating, though I can understand why a woman might think that it is. First off, almost any kind of explicit sexual talk is a good way to get me interested (maybe TMI there, but oh well). Secondly, in line with what Eleanor said, I like knowing that I’m doing something to please my partner and I want to do the best that I can. It would be incredibly frustrating for me to have a partner who assumed that I should just “figure out” what she wants and then blamed me for not pleasing her when I don’t.

    On the dysfunctional tip, I do wonder if male sexual dysfunction has a lot of the same elements as what happens in women. Sometimes I wonder if a purely physiological approach involves a bit of ego massaging: for the men, mostly, because it proves to them that they’re still potent, but also because it relieves us of confronting the possibility that he’s just not that sexually interested in her anymore.

  41. Rana –

    I am confused as to why a “simple” medical condition gets all the money and attention and repeated studies, especially if we have “easy” solutions for it, while a “complex” one does not.

    As another commenter intimated, there was a more clear profit potential with solving the mechanical problem of male sexual dysfunction, as well as a more clear methodology and timeline to market.

    The “complex” solution to all the wrinkles of psychophysiological sexual dysfunction is sort of as complex as figuring out the human brain itself – you might think of it as akin to attempting to solve depression or alzheimmer’s. If you’ll notice, we certainly haven’t scratched the surface of effective treatments with these conditions (anti-depressants are very crude, imprecise and side effect laden, for example). Those “complex” problems have understandable priority over pyschophysiological sexual dysfunction as they are killers, so the complexity of the problem is relevant to why it’s not being addressed.

    That being said, as I pointed out earlier, a drug is in development that works on the “desire” component of sexual arousal, in both men and women, called PT-141 by Palatin Technologies. So just wait 2-3 years and then it’s PARTY TIME.

    BoDiddly –

    I’d also postulate that because of the emotional connections to female climax, that birth control and other hormonal “tweaks”, as well as other medicines (antidepressants, etc.) may play a huge role. Men don’t take birth control or HRT and their orgasms are more mechanical than emotional in origin, so male potency and orgasm are less prone to be adversely affected by these factors.

    I’d say that this is spot on. Another factor (one of the same factors you mention?) is neuroendocrinological differences between men and women. Men suffer from anxiety and panic disorder at lower rates than women, a condition that is directly tied to sexual arousal, function and fulfillment. It also begs the anti-depressant medication that you mention, which compounds the problem.

    Piny –

    Bill, I think that the problem arose when you referred to female sexual discomfort as a problem that is extremely difficult to solve, while simultaneously insulting Amanda’s taste in men and her reliability as a source of information on what it’s like to be a heterosexual woman.

    If you dig really deep, Amanda and I have a very pure love for each other. Really deep.

    Ok, that’s a bunch of shit.

    But if you’ll notice, I did not initiate hostilities with Amanda Panda on this thread, just returning the love.

    Also, I am not really doubting her reliability on what affects hetero women, but I am directly impugning her reliablity when she asserts that sexual dysfunction tied to emotional problems and/or uncaring/insensitive male partners is a SIMPLER problem to solve than mechanical sexual dysfunction in males (or females, for that matter).

    In one instance you can take a pill that solves the problem with ease in 85% of ED sufferers. In the other, you need a good partner and confidence and comfort with yourself – body image, sexuality, etc., a whole host of complicated factors. And despite that, there still exists a minority percentage of women with a genetic inability to orgasm (I linked a piece above).

    Now, which do you think is a more difficult problem?

    With all due respect, I don’t think you’ve slept with many straight men.

    Well, not MANY, per say. But I’ve slept with myself like 4 KAJILLION TIMES, and frankly I’m BEYOND PISSED at what a selfish bastard I can be.

    Otherwise, I agree with much of the rest of your comment, but I’d note that looking at the female orgasm as unnecessary is far from a universal opinion in today’s environment, and most folks I know tend to strive for mutually satisfactory sexual relationships. I think the onus is really on women to assert themselves and teach men what they want, in addition to men getting with the program.

    But let’s face it, for us? It’s awful confusing down there. When I was 16 I felt like I was on stage getting booed at a talent competition, struggling with the velvet folds of the stage curtain as I scrambled to exit in a panic.

  42. In one instance you can take a pill that solves the problem with ease in 85% of ED sufferers. In the other, you need a good partner and confidence and comfort with yourself – body image, sexuality, etc., a whole host of complicated factors. And despite that, there still exists a minority percentage of women with a genetic inability to orgasm (I linked a piece above).

    I checked out the article. I’m skeptical of its methodology, especially given that twins are pretty likely to have been brought up in the same households, and–IIRC–more likely to partner with the same types of men.

    My point is that this is not as complicated or herculean an effort as you keep making out. Our bodies aren’t actually that much more elaborate than yours. We’ve got our buttons, too. It’s just that the stuff that works for us is hidden behind a mountain of “What do women want?” body-mysticism that makes it sound like getting a woman off is more complicated than playing the bagpipes. This is due to sexism, but it can be solved by a little bit more information. So it might not be quite as easy as popping a pill, but it doesn’t require the entire anorgasmic female (and oblivious male) population of this country to go into counselling.

    But let’s face it, for us? It’s awful confusing down there. When I was 16 I felt like I was on stage getting booed at a talent competition, struggling with the velvet folds of the stage curtain as I scrambled to exit in a panic.

    Wow, really? That blows. No, that’s really rough. By the time I hit eleventh grade, I had read hundreds of Cosmo articles designed to teach me exactly how your junk works. I wonder why similar resources weren’t made available for your use.

    This confusion has nothing to do with comparative physiology and everything to do with sexism. The reason it’s so confusing is that not much attention is paid to some very simple facts about female anatomy. It’s gross. It’s private. It’s nasty. You, on the other hand, have had your genitalia mapped so carefully that I knew what foreskin was before I knew what the labia minora were. I knew about the basic mechanics of your body way before I knew about the mechanics of my own.

  43. heh.

    I was actually just bullshitting you, Penthouse Forum took care of my education fairly well. :-0

    Look, I still think that men have a somewhat simpler sex drive than women, and it’s been my experience that even knowing one’s way around the plumbing is no guarantee for fulfilling some women’s emotional and strictly mental wants (often, needs)relating to sex. In contrast, most men I know just fuck. Even if it’s much better with a satisfying emotional connection, they’ll still enthusiastically engage without one 9.999999 out of 10 times. Women are pickier, to their credit, I think.

    Yes, plenty of studies support sex differences, from the amount of foreplay desired/required, to bisexual arousal patterns in women but not so much men, to visual stimulation in men vs. tactile and mental stimulation in women. There is also a definitive link between anxiety and poor sexual function and fulfillment, concomittant with a higher rate of panic and anxiety disorders in women.

    I guess we’ll just have to agree to sort of agree as well as disagree.

    It’s not to present the idea that female orgasm is tremendously hard to achieve or anything, it’s just different, and has developed from a different and less integral set of evolutionary considerations than the male orgasm (no doubt someone is going to paint me as thinking it “unimportant” based on that eminently logical statement; preemptively: “piss off, that’s not my implication at all.”). A strong case can be made that y’all have it better, as you can derive pleasure of greater physical intensity (a lot more nerves in the clitoris than the penis), with the potential for multiple times.

  44. You, on the other hand, have had your genitalia mapped so carefully that I knew what foreskin was before I knew what the labia minora were. I knew about the basic mechanics of your body way before I knew about the mechanics of my own.

    Bill’s genitals were are on the Map? Now I’m flashing on “Dora the Explorer” and hearing “testicles…main shaft…HEAD of the PENIS!” over and over. “I’ll need YOUR help!”

    Lauren just spewed Diet Coke on her screen reading that, and everybody else is going “huh?”

  45. My point is that this is not as complicated or herculean an effort as you keep making out. Our bodies aren’t actually that much more elaborate than yours. We’ve got our buttons, too. It’s just that the stuff that works for us is hidden behind a mountain of “What do women want?” body-mysticism that makes it sound like getting a woman off is more complicated than playing the bagpipes.

    One problem is in the mechanics of the thing. For whatever reason, most men get off in generally the same fashion, while the mechanism for women vary GREATLY from one to another. One’s clitoris is the “hot-button” for her, while another’s is too sensitive to be directly stimulated without being uncomfortable. One may only have a satisfying orgasm while being penetrated, another may find orgasming while penetrated nigh unto impossible. As a result, not every couple will “mesh” naturally such that she is satisfied every time. Layer this with the emotional, hormonal, and physiological factors at work, and it truly can become a tricky endeavour.

    Now, there’s also a significant “male-ego” factor that complicates matters, as well. Men are under a lot of pressure to be good in bed, especially in first-encounter situations. That leads them to attempt to formulate a “one-size-fits-all” method for satisfying women. Because of the complexities I’ve mentioned above, that results in a lot of clueless fumbling and sometimes in some adverse reactions. That’s also what drives the “what women really want” stigma, when the best solution is to talk to your mate–not read a damn book. As a sidebar, I never bought one of those books, primarily because I never found one penned by a woman. I figured my own trial-and-error would do as well as another guy’s.

    Whether a woman will actually request that her man does something other than a pogo-stick impression is one area that sexism and different attitudes about each gender’s sexuality may truly have some significant influence. I feel it’s painting with too broad a brush, however, to insist that rampant sexism is keeping the problem from being solved.

  46. Bill: Men suffer from anxiety and panic disorder at lower rates than women

    Yes. But on the other hand, men suffer from alcoholism in comparably greater rates. It’s thought to be self-medication.

    bisexual arousal patterns in women but not so much men

    One study. With a fucking worthless methodology.

    Also, thank you for advertising that you suck in bed.

  47. Robert,

    Oh my god. Now I can never watch that show with my son again.

    Thanks. If you could just ruin the Doodlebops so that I never have to watch that again, that’d be very helpful.

  49. a pogo-stick impression

    I call that bunny fucking. If you’ve ever seen a humping rabbit, you know what I’m talking about.

    And while we’re ruining kid’s shows, can you ruin Pokemon for Ethan? Without sex, drugs and rock n’ roll?* I’d really, really appreciate it.

    * Okay, leave the rock n’ roll. Maybe we could ruin this horrible rap/rock thing a la Limp Bizkit. **

    ** Limp Bizkit on a penile dysfunction thread could make for an amusing pun.

  50. But let’s face it, for us? It’s awful confusing down there. When I was 16 I felt like I was on stage getting booed at a talent competition, struggling with the velvet folds of the stage curtain as I scrambled to exit in a panic.

    Ok, this made me laugh out loud. Though I completely second what Piny said about Cosmo and other women’s magazines teaching us about pleasuring men, and men’s magazines not exactly reciprocating.

    I was actually just bullshitting you, Penthouse Forum took care of my education fairly well. :-0

    Now, the last time I read Penthouse forum, I was in 8th grade and had discovered boxes of dirty magazines with my best friend in her grandpa’s attick. But if I remember correctly, stories along the lines of, “I fucked my boyfriend’s roommate while giving my boyfriend head” aren’t exactly focused on encouraging men to pleasure women according to how women actually like to be pleasured.

    I’ll also throw it out there at erectile dysfunction in men isn’t such an easy problem to solve, either. Yes, they can take Viagra and get hard, but a lot of men report that their penises feel detached and not very sensitive when on those drugs. I’m also not sure that Amanda was arguing that sexual problems in women are universially more difficult to solve than those in men — I think she was just pointing out that often women consider not orgasming during sex a physical “dysfunction,” when the truth is that the vast majority of women just need some foreplay and decent clitoral stimulation to get off — having a guy hammer away without any prep work isn’t gonna be so successful.

  53. Well, we could call in a tactical nuclear airstrike on the headquarters of the company that churns out the Pokemon franchise. There could be no legitimate objection to such an action.

  54. “A substantial percentage of women have never orgasmed in their lives“

    Believe me, men are working hard on this problem every day. And night.

  55. people like Bill always blathering on about how difficult and impossible it is for women to come,

    I don’t think Bill is saying that, just that orgasm is a much more complicated process than erection, and that’s a more likely explanation for the lack of a product to make women orgasm. Believe me – MEN WANT THAT PRODUCT. Maybe more than ED drugs.

    It’s probably a function of how our brains are wired. How many men do you know that have a problam achieving orgasm? Hell, some men probably wish they had that problem.

    I’ve dated girls who would come five or six times in half an hour. I’ve dated other girls who wouldn’t come in three.

    I’m a bona fide “skank” and even I have found myself laying there sort of bored and afraid to ask for something simple to get me there for fear of emasculating my partner.

    LOL This is probably horribly wrong, but for some reason this gives me a mental picture of you saying “Okay, bend over honey, I’m getting my strap-on.”

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

  56. By the time I hit eleventh grade, I had read hundreds of Cosmo articles designed to teach me exactly how your junk works. I wonder why similar resources weren’t made available for your use.

    That’s not the sort of article you find in, say, Sport Compact Car. We did get the pictures in school, but they weren’t very good (is that a vagina or a coelacanth?) and they focused on the reproductive system and not the accessories.

    I have to watch Dora the Explorer by myself since I keep making inappropriate suggestions. (Where should we go? The river or the volcano? The volcano. I have this ring I need to get rid of.)

  57. they focused on the reproductive system and not the accessories.

    Big problem. I only figured out how the clitoris was supposed to work long after I was having sex. Man, was I pissed off once I finally figured out what I had been missing all that time.

  59. The Gatekeeper and The Keymaster,

    Man, Sigourney was totally hot in that role.

    Believe me – MEN WANT THAT PRODUCT.

    It’s called “saliva.” But in order for it to work, one needs to turn off the television.

  61. How exactly does one make the leap from Sauron to Gozer?

    “I thought you said your fence would hold that thing!”
    “You didn’t tell me it was thirty feet tall!”
    “I didn’t know.”

  63. Numb-nuts? She-spooging? Bunny fucking?
    Subject matter aside: man, ya’ll are hilarious. And crazy. But mostly in a harmless funny way.

  64. It’s called “saliva.” But in order for it to work, one needs to turn off the television.

    Works for some women, but not all. Kinda the same for men.

  66. [Saliva] works for some women, but not all.

    Well, I just tried it with my wife, and man, was she pissed.

    While wiping the saliva out of her hair, she impatiently explained that while saliva is helpful, and sex does largely take place between her ears rather than her legs, the two concepts do not Play Well Together.

    How was I to know? All I had to read in elementary school was “Tom Swift” books. Long on how to make an ion cannon for your solar sailer, short on woman pleasing*.

    * Unless the woman would be pleased by an ion cannon.

  67. Hehe, I remember those Robert. I had the Danny Dunn books too. They sported the occasional cunning linguist, but never oral sex.

    Every woman is different, was my point I guess. I’ve dated women who wanted to be put over my lap and have their bottoms paddled red before (or during) sex. You just never know what will make a particular woman’s circuits fire. They’re all special in their own way.

  68. Interesting. I’d suspected that having spent a lot of time on a bicycle had something to do with my…err…*cough*lowspermcount*cough*…problems, although *ahem* other symptoms didn’t make, uh, an appearance. So maybe I did it to myself, so to speak.

  69. First time visitor and first time poster here, but I wanted to make some remarks about the article.

    The simple fact is that if you have a pelvis, you have an Alcock’s canal whether you are male or female. It’s an indentation in the bone and the pudendal nerve runs along it and then down through some spiky edges called the ischial spines. Two pelvic ligaments lie on top of the nerve, and sometimes that nerve is between a rock and a hard place. Bicycle riding is one way to make it happen, and so is childbirth. If the nerve has enough room to swell and recover from the compression, no health problems ensue. But if it doesn’t, then you can have a chronic pain, numbing, or dysfunctional problem. There is treatment for it, but it’s very hard to find doctors for either sex who know what to do. I found the help I needed at http://www.tipna.org.

    I think that men and women equally get brushed off with catchall diagnoses. Men are commonly told that it is a bacterial infection called chronic prostatitis. However not a lot is offered to them once repeated courses of antibiotics do nothing for them. Women however are frequently told that it is vulvodynia–literally a painful vulva. Now there is a diagnosis from hell. Not only do they tell you that they really don’t understand why you have the pain you say you do, they frequently blame you for the pain (must be trying to get some attention, or probably got sick of having sex and want a reason to tell hubby no). Probably the most offensive thing they offer is the advice to change the diet to eliminate so much that patients wonder what they are supposed to live on.

    I just wanted to speak up and say that this problem affects both sexes, and we both get treated terribly by the medical world which is really very clueless about basic anatomy Down There.

  71. This is one of the best posts (incl. comments) that I’ve ever seen on Feministe. As much as some people dislike Dave and Bill, they do make for a good comment section, don’t they?

    One thing that I have yet to see mentioned (perhaps I didn’t look hard enough) about female sexuality is that women has two physical methods for orgasm. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that one can switch up, bad in that it can be confusing to know what to focus on. In my case, I have to focus on both at once.

    It’s perhaps a specious hope, but I nonetheless am encouraged that my generation seems to give more attention to female needs, albeit sometimes only out of masculine pride. Still, maybe that’s not such a bad thing. I can see the t-shirt now: “Real men come last.”

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