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Stephen Moyer on Vampire Sex: Masculinity in True Blood

The following quote is from Stephen Moyer AKA vampire Bill compton in the series True Blood.

Epilogue:  Stephen Moyer, on Vampire Sex:
“The thing about vampirism is that it taps into a female point of view – you have an old-fashioned gentleman with manners who is a fucking killer… it’s an interesting duality, because in our present society it would be an odd thing for a woman to say, ‘I want my man to be physical with me.’ How, as a modern man, can you fucking work that?  It’s one thing to be polite and gentle… But when do you know it’s OK to crawl out of the mud and rape her [as Bill does in one scene]?… It’s difficult stuff for a bloke, but a vampire gets away with it…. I think that’s the attraction of the show – it’s looking back at a romantic time when men were men, but they Oncwere still charming.”

image How many think that Moyer should stick to acting, rather than attempt a clearly heterosexist, sexist, misogynist breakdown of his character Bill Compton?  We know that Compton is a civil war vampire, however; that time period does not necessarily make him suddenly more respectful of women.   Let us not forget, in the civil war era, women were considered to be the property of their husbands, they could not vote, did not own land and education was a rarity.  We have a tendency to romanticize the past not because it harkens to a time of gentlemanly behaviour but because it normalizes the view that the patriarchal oppression of women is acceptable.

I find his claim that a woman would not tell her lover that she wants “her man to be physical with her,” to be spurious.  This claim suggests that women only desire to participate in one form of sex when they have any desire at all.  He further defines sex as something men do to women, rather than something that two parties actively engage in.  Many women actively enjoy BDSM and are not shy in communicating that to their partners.

image In terms of his commentary regarding rape, I certainly have no recollection of Bill Compton crawling out of the mud and raping Sookie.  One of the things I love about their sex scenes, is that Sookie actively assents to participation and clearly is not shy about enjoying sex.  It is never okay for a man to rape a woman and that he could implicitly state rape is  acceptable, once again displays his desire to privilege masculinity, in his understanding of the relationship between Sookie and Bill.  A woman does not consent to rape ever.  The definition of rape is forcing ones self on another in a sexual manner, therefore; implicitly denying consent.

Of course, Moyer can only see the show broken down to affirm masculinity in all forms because his male privilege blinds him to the ways in which the female characters invoke their agency.  In the very first episode of the show, Tara quits a job rather than deal with a racist and irritating customer.  Tara further initiates a sexual relationship with Sam, after stating implicitly that this is not to involve a romantic relationship.

image When Sookie and Bill get into a fight, she has no problem revoking his invitation to her home.  Sookie also speaks to Eric in a tone that no one else on the show dares to and she is human.  The power differential between Sookie and Eric never stops her from being upfront about her feelings, as well as slapping him when he crosses the line.

image We also have Marianne, who is a very powerful being.  She clearly acts of her own accord and controls those around her.  We may not like her as a character but one can be certain, that Marianne does not pander to traditional views regarding femininity and sexuality.

Let us also not forget, that though we have yet to see what she is capable of, the Queen is a woman and head of all of the vampires.

True Blood works, not because it reminds of us of a time when men were men but because it walks a dangerous line forcing us to confront our own mortality.  We are entranced with the thought that there are beings that might possibly escape the curse of death, that awaits for us all.

The vampire is a far more complicated creature than Moyer clearly understands.  He does not acknowledge that they come in both male and female, nor does he offer any analysis on power.  We  see the vampire as sexy because it acts with the assurance that it is invincible.  Coercive power is something that have come to socially respect and therefore, the vampire is understood to be seductive when it acts with impunity.

Vampires have the ability to act in cruel and terrible ways, yet touching characters like Godric, have shown us that there is a tenderness and a real ability to connect with others.  In the end, vampires mystifies us with their difference and touch us with their ability to tap into a softer, more sensitive side of human image nature.   We are lead to believe that it is the human that is overly emotional and  yet the emotions vampires do display, are filled with such passion. It costs them so much to admit their vulnerability, that their tears are made of blood.  Vampires are morally ambiguous and in their imperfection we can see that no matter how much we aim for the greater good, we to are always destined to fall short.

Cross posted from Womanist Musings


61 thoughts on Stephen Moyer on Vampire Sex: Masculinity in True Blood

  1. I have never seen Tru Blood, though i plan to catch up on DVD sometime soonish as I tend to like Vampire dramas, and friends have told me I’ll probably like this one.

    “The definition of rape is forcing ones self on another in a sexual manner, therefore; implicitly denying consent.”

    Thank you. This is so basic, yet so often not understood.

    Many women actively enjoy BDSM and are not shy in communicating that to their partners

    Seriously. The vampire danger/sex appeal thing? It’s (often) a BDSM thing. Enjoying fictional vampire sex has nothing to do with romanticizing rape, it has to do with taking pleasure in playing with/imaging power dynamics from a safe and empowered position. The viewer is not a victim, probably isn’t looking to be a victim or return to when “men were men” or wtever Moyer is wanking about.

    This is what happens when some people try to look at the popularity of vampire sex in film/lit/tv through hegemonic, patriarchal sex/gender ideology–they just don’t get it.

  2. Moyer’s own argument isn’t even coherent. On the one hand he’s saying oh this is rape stuff and then finishes off with “it’s so romantic”. Rape is romantic stuff?

    But this is a very common conflation in this culture. “Real” rape is this terrible predator on virgin between stranger thing, where she preferably ends up dead. If she knows the guy, then dig deep enough and it’s consensual no matter how it looks.

    Anyway, one other thought I have on this, after following all the links down to the sources is that these are pretty brief quotes. It’s also entirely possible that these remarks are all taken out of context to fit the message the reporter intended to convey. I’ve seen *that* happen all to often, including to me.

  3. Re: “Of course, Moyer can only see the show broken down to affirm masculinity in all forms because his male privilege blinds him to the ways in which the female characters invoke their agency”

    “How many think that Moyer should stick to acting, rather than attempt a clearly heterosexist, sexist, misogynist breakdown of his character Bill Compton?”

    “The vampire is a far more complicated creature than Moyer clearly understands.”

    “Clearly*? You’re taking his remarks out of context and making an unsubstantiated ad hominem attack. By “rape” he means “ravish.” He’s entitled to his opinion — and I think that our society DOES discourage women from asking for what they want, sexually — and that the vampire is traditionally a way around that for women.

  4. It’s odd to hear this from Stephen Moyer, because, like you, I didn’t think that Sookie was being raped. At all. She was happy to have him back. She was enjoying it. Where is this “rape” stuff coming from? Perhaps he means like – “rape fantasy” stuff (which itself is a misnomer)?

  5. His quote seems pretty incoherent to me, honestly. And I don’t really see any of what he’s talking about reflected in TrueBlood, except for maybe in recent episodes with a certain thing involving eric and sooky that didn’t involve her consent. That was probably the closest thing to rape I remember on the show, well that, and how whats her name makes people do things they wouldn’t normally do.

    Oh i also appreciate how they acknowledged that a man could be raped with that other small acknowledgement via jesse and the waitress whose name I don’t remember.

  6. Yeah that quote from Moyer is all kinds of fucked. Like others have said, when he crawled out of the dirt she was glad to see him and totally consented to that sex. How does Moyer think that’s rape?

    And I hate how he’s basically saying that he would like to rape and mistreat women, but it’s not as socially acceptable as it used to be, “when men were men” (what are men now? aliens?)

  7. Moyer’s POV is deeply troubling. It bears little relation to the text he’s purportedly analyzing, and so I suspect he’s projecting — and it’s a terrifying projection. Also the vampire genre’s core audience is too smart and analytical about this stuff for him to fuck up like that without a price. If he keeps shooting his mouth off without knowing what the hell he is talking about, he will alienate the fans. I expect his exit isn’t far off anyway.

    I bet Alexander Skarsgard (Eric) doesn’t say anything in that class of stupidity.

  8. Well, this will make watching his scenes even harder to stomach than they already were.

    But then, I’m only watching that show for Alexander Skarsgard these days. And the sadly underused Lafayette.

  9. A very fucked up quote indeed. One of the things I love about True Blood is the powerful view of women’s sexuality it takes, especially with Sookie. She waited well into her twenties to have sex, not because of any purity myth but because if it couldn’t be on her terms, she was not going to compromise. I love that about her. Her sexual relationship with Bill has never been anything but fully consensual and welcoming; it’s sad that Moyer doesn’t understand that about his own character. I’m even more over Sookie/Bill now than I was before reading that; bring on the Sookie/Eric!

  10. Gotta say that I am all for Sookie and Eric. Skaarsgard is extremely hot and his character is far more complex and interesting than Bill.

  11. I am not sure if this is what he is referring to, but in one of the books that this series is based on, Bill *does* rape Sookie. It was incredibly disturbing, and although she broke up with him after that, the whole rape part was seriously glossed over.

  12. Serously people, I think you’ve taken this whole thing way too serious. I think Moyer is actually making a reference to rough sex & not meaning rape. He filmed the scene, I’m sure he realizes Sookie was actively participating in the sex.

    Where does the word rape come in? On True Blood sites where Eric fans call it rape. Until now, it’s the only place I’ve seen it. Quit taking yourselves so serious & give the man a break. Jeez!

  13. Last month, when I plowed through all of True Blood’s first season (thank you, Netflix!), I had a huge Bill jones. He struck me as dark, brooding (with good reason!), wanting to do the right thing. However, Stephen Moyer is on the express train DOWN in my estimation. First, this rambling, all-but-incoherent treatise of his on (MALE) vampires and sex. Then, today I was reading about his engagement to Anna Paquin – his opinion of the woman he’s going to marry? “She’s hardcore.” I don’t even WANT to know what he means by that.

    You know, blondes don’t usually get my motor revving, but Eric is looking better and better all the time…

  14. To be quite honest I am a writer and I find it highly unlikely that this is his entire quote and actually the context of the quote (I”m speaking more about the use of the word rape). I’d be really interested in hearing the audio of that exchange. I’d also be interested in hearing the EXACT question he was responding to. Also, it would seem to me ANYONE hearing that in that context would challenge him with a follow-up. You see al the … things are being left out. The reason I say this is because CLEARLY Sookie was NOT raped. And Bill on the show is nothing but caring and protective of her. Moyer knows that. This quote makes no sense because there is no ambiguity about the scene. I’m going to take this with a grain of salt. Just because I know, without a question, how easily it is to misquote someone. As for you all making this into a Team Eric/Team BIll thing please relax, enjoy the show and think about getting a hobby.

  15. Very much agreed, Renee. I love how the show is delving deeper into his character, and presenting different sides of him to Sookie. And Skaarsgard has the body of an Adonis. YUM.

  16. “As for you all making this into a Team Eric/Team BIll thing please relax, enjoy the show and think about getting a hobby.”

    This is a really bizarre thing to say. What makes you think that just because a fan likes one character more than the other, that must mean she’s not enjoying the show or needs a hobby?

  17. As for you all making this into a Team Eric/Team BIll thing please relax, enjoy the show and think about getting a hobby.

    Um…this is a hobby. Watching TV, reading books, talking about both, etc. That’s a hobby. Possibly I’m sensitive here, because I’m an active member of medium fandom, but I never understand it when someone responds to my discussions of a TV show with “get a hobby.” This is my hobby. Okay, it’s also part of my job, because my job is cool like that, but it’s also my hobby. Much like the sports teams my brother gets so worked up about are his.

    1. Possibly I’m sensitive here, because I’m an active member of medium fandom, but I never understand it when someone responds to my discussions of a TV show with “get a hobby.” This is my hobby.

      As an obsessive fan of both the Beatles and LOST, who has been given the “get a hobby” line on both counts, I approve this message! SERIOUSLY.

  18. @Lucy
    You know that is an excellent point. When people go on and on about their sports teams and play armchair quarterback, that is assumed to be okay and yet talking about a series with the same kind of passion is unacceptable. I for one, really enjoy True Blood and wait anxiously for the arrival of Sunday. When it goes on hiatus, I am going to miss it and there is nothing wrong with that.

    Oh BTW TEAM ERIC ALL THE WAY.

  19. Actually, when I mention “Teams” I was speaking more to the point that most of these discussions end up becoming rude and people start to make personal attacks against the actors. Perhaps you fine ladies won’t do that but I’ve seen these discussions quickly devolve. As an avid watcher of the show my favorite character is also Eric but I really like Bill as well. I don’t really care if either one ends up with Sookie because I find her romantic life the least interesting aspect on the show. I digress. My use of the phrase “get a hobby” was more about realizing the show is fiction. Like attacking Stephen Moyer because one likes Eric. Or attacking Alex because you like Bill. Clearly, I love True Blood which is why I took the time to read this. I stand by my original comment that this quote is so disjointed and borderline incoherent that I’ll put money on the fact that he was not properly quoted or the context to which he was quoted is not the context that is being presented. In other words he might have said “which is wrong” or “which did not happen.” The way the quote is written you can clearly see that words have been omitted.

  20. I have to go with Anya on this — I think Stephen Moyer certainly stepped in it on this one, and I think he could use some media training, but I don’t think it all adds up to a misogynist monster. I think by “rape,” he could well have meant “ravish” — it’s a not-uncommon, if insensitive, misnomer, as in “rape fantasy,” as Natalia mentioned.

    And I think he actually has a point about the female point of view — not the female point of view, but a female POV, certainly — that romanticizes the idea of a man who’s a gentleman and also a little bit of a wild man. Not all women are like Feministe readers — some of them are reluctant to express their desires to have a man get a little rough or physical in bed, some of them still believe that “good girls don’t,” and vampire fantasies tend to tap into that.

    And I think that does contribute something to the relationships in the show. The main female characters are strong, capable women, and that is reflected in their relationships with men — they stand up to and are stood up to by men and are comfortable asserting themselves to men without either party having to dominate or submit. They have relationships that I’m sure a lot of the female viewers would like to have.

    Also the vampire genre’s core audience is too smart and analytical about this stuff for him to fuck up like that without a price.

    Sorry, but no. Again, not all women are like Feministe readers; I doubt there are a lot of Twi-hards out there who would understand the quote, much less have the processing power to get pissed off about it.

  21. So what you’re saying, LizzieLemonie, is that you were being preemptively obnoxious, just in case the conversation turned into a fandom argument you don’t like? Awesome.

    And I really don’t think you can count on “Oh, surely he was misquoted” as a defense for Moyer’s statements. It’s pretty clear that he was using “rape” as a synonym for “have rough, enthusiastic sex with”, which is fucked up.

  22. Actually, you might think it’s clear. I don’t and that’s the point of my post. Which you’d get if you read my post. As for being preemptively obnoxious about the sure to come “Stephen sucks because Eric is so hot” then yeah, guess so. Though if you just scroll up a bit you can see the discussion had already gone there. Guess I shouldn’t attempt to play nice. Also I wasn’t talking about fandom argument. I was talking about ragging on a real human being because you don’t like the guy he plays on TV. Not whether or not Eric loves Sookie more. But because I don’t take things so personally I won’t take your comment to heart. Because surely you wouldn’t be that upset over an innocuous comment like “get a hobby?” I’ll leave you kids to play now.

  23. Meggo is so spoilering. i would love to talk about THAT part in the books, though…However, THAT scene isn’t the one Moyer is referring to. It’s the graveyard sex in season 1

  24. Shows/books like True Blood are a way of main streaming less socially acceptable, sexual desires like BDSM. Themes of Dom/Sub fit nicely in to “gothic” stories but the more complex issues are couched are as “looking back at a romantic time when men were men, but they were still charming.”
    I have no desire to cut Moyer any slack because he has clearly come to the conclusion that there is something unique about female sexuality that gives us the desire to be “cherished” and raped at the same time.
    This is all pure speculation but I thought I’d put it out there. I think as an actor it disturbed him to participate in this scene. Anna Paquin is his girlfriend. Though I don’t have any personal knowledge of what they do in the bedroom, it’s possible that acting out this type of scenario may have felt like a rape from his perspective. It seems to me that when he made that statement he was thinking of himself and how it felt for him to play that role. Sookie’s consent, I think, was written into the script and clear to the audience.
    Considering the themes of the show and its popularity in spite of what he perceived to be violent nonconsensual sex he came to a really scary conclusion. That what women really want is for men to tow that delicate line between “an old-fashioned gentleman with manners” and rapist. It seems he just doesn’t have the tools the understand a complex scenario outside a patriarchal context.

  25. Am also resisting a detailed reply to Meggo because that discussion, though totally worth it, would be full of potential series spoilers. Roxie is correct, though – the rape scene Meggo refers to in the books is something totally different that the graveyard scene being discussed here.

    I have to say, though, that I do think both the books and the show purposefully walk the line about consent at certain points (Eric as a character in relation to Sookie is sortof the embodiment of that), and Sookie struggles, especially in the earlier stories, with ambivalence in her reactions to it. However, in my opinion, the books fall squarely on the side of Sookie choosing self-determination over compromising her independent nature for the sake of a man’s attentions. And I’ll stop myself from going into why I think that, in an effort not to spoil.

    Oh, and Eric all the way!

    (It’s actually kinda funny to me that the actor who plays Bill is so wrapped up in his old-fashioned southern romantic shtick, which in the books always seemed to just make Bill a bit of a shlub, and in the tv show makes him seem deeply inauthentic. I guess, though, that the actor has to be sold on his character’s own self-deceptions in order to portray them well.)

  26. “My use of the phrase “get a hobby” was more about realizing the show is fiction. Like attacking Stephen Moyer because one likes Eric.”

    Uh, yeah, except nobody was doing that. We were expression displeasure over Moyer because of his words, not because we like Eric more. I think everyone here understands the show is fiction, so maybe you could knock off the condescension.

    And yes, please no book spoilers! I’ve only read the first one, because I read them after each season on HBO completes. Once this one’s over, I’ll read the second.

    “It’s actually kinda funny to me that the actor who plays Bill is so wrapped up in his old-fashioned southern romantic shtick,”

    TV Bill really is a chauvanist, though he believes in his romance; just look at his relationship with Jessica for that. The appeal of Eric to Sookie right now is that Eric doesn’t hide from either potential or all the nasty dirty mean things in himself OR in Sookie. Her dream sequence in “I Will Rise Up” is all about this–Eric presenting the potential of Sookie as a vampire, the potential to be as bad as she wants, as powerful as she wants. That’s something Bill would NEVER offer her.

  27. “It’s odd to hear this from Stephen Moyer, because, like you, I didn’t think that Sookie was being raped. At all. She was happy to have him back. She was enjoying it. Where is this “rape” stuff coming from? Perhaps he means like – “rape fantasy” stuff (which itself is a misnomer)?”

    Vampire Bill -does- rape Sookie in one of the books. I do not know if any of the scenes in the adaptation can be described as rape because I have not seen all of them. But, yes, Bill most certainly does rape Sookie in the original story. Although, he did not climb out of the mud to do it. He was locked in the trunk of a car with Sookie.

  28. If you think “Marianne does not pander to traditional views regarding femininity and sexuality” than you are not looking far enough back into the history of gender relations. Throughout the Middle Ages women were persecuted as witches because women were assumed to be more emotional and have a powerful connection to the animal and natural world. Out of all the characters on True Blood I think Marianne most plays into the stereotypes of Old World sexism. Because Bill is from the Civil War era, the world of True Blood is most informed by Antebellum and therefore Victorian values of femininity and masculinity. But the vampire is much older than this. And certainly any creature that Marianne represents is even older, from a time when women were seen as very powerful and evil creatures. Being a women meant being a demon.

  29. Giving Stephen the benefit of the doubt, I must say that male/female relationships as explored in vampire fantasies is a tricky topic to discuss. I admire Sookie’s “spunk”–to me she is a genuinely liberated woman and a good role model. I also understand the charm of Bill’s old-fashioned values, that Southern-style chivalry that no man can get away with today unless he’s over 125 years old. I also adore Eric’s blend of sexual dominance and vulnerability.

    But aren’t these reactions somewhat self-contradictory? Yes. And that just goes to show you that the issue is complex. It boils down to the fact that I am a strong, assertive woman who also longs for both a chivalrous man devoted to my protection, and a “bad boy” who wants to dominate me. One excellent way to deal with these conflicting desires is to indulge in fantasy.

    And that, in a nutshell, is why so many modern women fantasize about being with vampires, be they Bill types or Eric types!

    –Diana Laurence, author of How to Catch and Keep a Vampire

  30. Wow, I’m just starting to watch the show and I haven’t reached the graveyard scene yet, but from everything I’ve heard it’s not portrayed as rape and it’s deeply disturbing that Moyer would speak about it (and the Bill/Sookie relationship in general) this way.

    This is a great post, especially the last paragraph — you’ve really captured what I love about the vampire genre, themes that sometimes get lost when people focus on the sexual and dominating-male tropes.

  31. Reading this again, I realize that “[as Bill does in one scene]” is actually in brackets, added by the interviewer. Is it possible in Moyer’s comment about crawling out of the mud and raping, he was speaking generally about “men” and not talking about the muddy scene, and the writer just assumed he was?

    It still doesn’t excuse the whole “real men in the day were gentlemen but also rough and violent and that’s what women really want” tone.

  32. “Am also resisting a detailed reply to Meggo because that discussion, though totally worth it, would be full of potential series spoilers. Roxie is correct, though – the rape scene Meggo refers to in the books is something totally different that the graveyard scene being discussed here.”

    How do you know that he was discussing the graveyard scene? As someone else has already stated, that part was added on in brackets by someone else. His entire comment is so convoluted that I really haven’t got a fucking clue what he’s talking about.

  33. @Renee
    I’m not saying he didn’t say what they said he said. I’m saying what he said actually makes no sense.

    I also like Eric more, but not for Sooky. He clearly manipulated her in a recent episode in a totally messed up way, forcing her to feel attraction and affection for him against her will, which is, obviously a whole new level of violation that doesn’t actually exsist in the real world.

  34. “It boils down to the fact that I am a strong, assertive woman who also longs for both a chivalrous man devoted to my protection, and a “bad boy” who wants to dominate me. One excellent way to deal with these conflicting desires is to indulge in fantasy.

    And that, in a nutshell, is why so many modern women fantasize about being with vampires, be they Bill types or Eric types!”

    Speak for yourself, please. I have no desire for a chivalrous man devoted to my protection. Nor do I have any real desire to be dominated. I find vampires attractive because I fantasize about -being- one. I find them attractive because I would like to possess super-strength and virtual immortality, even if it did mean having to drink raw blood and giving up many advantages to being mortal…like, oh, being able to walk in the sunlight.

    I’ve been borderline obsessed with vampires most of my life, but I don’t have any use for the romanticizing of male vampire dominance or chivalry. Fuck chivalry and male dominance, to be perfectly blunt.

  35. I wasn’t aware the juvenile, ridiculous female vampire Twilight obsession extended to the supposedly educated feminist set, as well.

    Valuable space, that could be used to cover valuable topics, is instead being devoted to debates and discussions of vampire sex.

    Wow. This is what’s left of feminism? Vampire sex. Disappointing as hell.

  36. I find it very interesting that half of the people on this board are viciously castigating Stephen Moyer for his opinion that some women want their men to be both gentle and strong (which doesn’t at all imply that women should therefore be passive and weak), but these same readers are unapologetically “team Eric” — when Eric is the worst kind of manipulator and the categorical alpha male — sexual and otherwise. If you like them tall, blonde, and dominant, just admit it.

    And by the way, the amount of ellipses in this quote means that the writer strung them together from disparate statements.

  37. “I also like Eric more, but not for Sooky. He clearly manipulated her in a recent episode in a totally messed up way, forcing her to feel attraction and affection for him against her will, which is, obviously a whole new level of violation that doesn’t actually exsist in the real world.”

    And on the show, they haven’t yet shown Sookie as putting the pieces together and realising that Bill wasn’t exactly forthcoming about these effects when he first had her drink his blood. I read Bill as being so angry at Eric not just because of the effect it might have on Sookie, but because now Sookie has a chance at realising that her attraction to Bill isn’t quite as consensual as it appears. I don’t know whether the show’s writers are going to go there, but that’s the first thing that came to mind in my reading.

    The rape scene in the book is horrifying.

  38. This sort of thing is why I prefer vampires by McKinley, Huston, or Lindskold. Interesting monsters.

    Emo superpowered people with a few triffling weaknesses isn’t all *that* entertaining.

  39. Or in other words…

    Shows like True Blood makes me miss Buffy all the more. I’m not surprised Moyer talks in this convoluted way about vampire desires, because it’s so emblematic of standard love triangles in penny dreadfuls, with the standard use resinous chivalry and cheap bad boy thrills. The show True Bloods evinces all of that crap–more so than the C. Harris books, actually. Vamp literature has gone a long way since Anne Rice. I like the show, more for the production values.

    And don’t get me started on the Jessica-Hoyt situation–lots of chocolates syrup on a three-day-old carcass if you ask me.

  40. “Many women actively enjoy BDSM and are not shy in communicating that to their partners.”

    LOL am afraid thats not how it always works. How are they suppose to communicate with their partners when they have a gag in their mouths?.
    Am sorry to break it down into such a crude terms but not all BDSM is that vanilla.

    To the topic of the show Moyer i think is correct one 2 accounts, maybe feminists hate it but thats a big part of the vampire lore.
    1)romanticizing the past.
    2)Vampires forcing upon their victims in a sexual way.
    Are we forgetting how vampires on the show can use their powers to manipulate them to do what they want against their will?.

    If you throw sex in the mix, to me that is clearly rape.

    Like the scene where bill was virtually abused by his maker?. Are we supposed to overlook that and say is not rape because his maker was a woman?.
    And of course they become lovers after that adding more to the confusion. Is been shown how many vampires on the show do that in regular basis(maybe with like 3 exceptions).
    Eric gets his kicks on women who actively and believable resists when he is feeding on them, thats very indicative of the dark tone of the vampire’s sexuality on the show.

    Am not sure if authors consciously write it as “rape” and the victim falling in love with their “rapist” (even if they dont say it ) but is right there, that is undeniable.

    Like one person said, maybe it wasnt portrayed that way on the cementery scene of sookie/bill but there was another clear rape scene on the books.

    Most vampires are rapist, that is the truth.

  41. “LOL am afraid thats not how it always works. How are they suppose to communicate with their partners when they have a gag in their mouths?.”

    LOL maybe you shouldn’t talk about things you clearly don’t understand. Being someone who has had sex with a gag in her mouth, I’m quite positive that a shitload of communication took place -before- that gag went in my mouth. But, hey, what the fuck do I know? It’s not like I’ve ever been a sub.

    “Most vampires are rapist, that is the truth.”

    Funny. I thought vampires didn’t exist. Silly me again.

  42. Whether or not Stephen Moyer was insensitive and tone-deaf (hint: he was), I think it would do us well to remember that every woman has her own fantasy life that may not appeal to other women. Some like being overpowered, some like tying up their partners, some like full-on BDSM, some even like it slow and unsweaty in the missionary position. Faith, Diana was speaking for herself — that’s why she used the first person. You and she simply have different fantasies, and I’m sure there are plenty of women who feel similarly. Some people want to be the vamp, some people want to bang the vamp, some people aren’t into vamps at all, and that’s perfectly acceptable in a nonintrusive society.

    I wasn’t aware the juvenile, ridiculous female vampire Twilight obsession extended to the supposedly educated feminist set, as well.

    Valuable space, that could be used to cover valuable topics, is instead being devoted to debates and discussions of vampire sex.

    Wow, I didn’t realized you hadn’t been consulted. I forgot that you had to approve all posts on this blog, since you’re the unquestionable arbiter of what topics are appropriate and what feminists should be allowed to do in their free time.

  43. @O.o says…right, right, cause real feminists/womanists only concern themselves with high theory, and birkenstocks. We never have any fun whatsoever cause that would be a violation of the womanist/feminists vow we took when we were shown the secret handshake.

    To the rest of you are that asserting that just because someone prefers Eric, that their bias is leading them to critique Moyer, please get a clue. Obviously what the man said was offensive and I am sure if Skaarsgard had something similar, people would be jumping all over it the same way. Being physically attracted to someone or enjoying their acting, does not mean the real person behind the role is not an ass.

  44. I actually see Marianne as an intensely misogynist character. If Daphne was right about what she is, she’s the embodiment of the “uncontrolled woman=destruction of civilization and rationality” myth. She’s the most personally powerful woman on the show, but she uses her power to destroy people’s humanity. And she doesn’t even do it for herself: all her power comes from (and serves the interests of) a male deity.

  45. I’m going to give Moyer the benefit of the doubt because this quote is presented with absolutely NO context and clearly not in its entirety.

  46. “Faith, Diana was speaking for herself — that’s why she used the first person.”

    Acg,

    She wasn’t just speaking for herself. She insinuated that her reasoning was the same as at least virtually most women. If that’s not what she meant, fine. But that’s not the way I interpreted it when she said “And that, in a nutshell, is why so many modern women fantasize about being with vampires, be they Bill types or Eric types!”

  47. the supposedly educated feminist set, as well.

    Care to back your shit up, or are you content to pallidly attempt to shame others into writing only about what interests you?

    Valuable space, that could be used to cover valuable topics, is instead being devoted to debates and discussions of vampire sex.

    Seeing as my education seems to be in question I’ll leave the discussion of the subjectivity of values for another time, I wouldn’t want to strain myself or anything. Still, I’d think someone as clearly superior as you would have picked up on the chance that the original post here wasn’t *really* talking about vampire sex so much as the implications of a statement made by a public figure and how that statement might have fed into certain perceptions of masculinity and the rape culture.

    Wow. This is what’s left of feminism? Vampire sex. Disappointing as hell.

    I could be wrong here, but the last time I checked the internet had other places. Perhaps you’d be better suited to the Chans, given your temperament.

    1. FYI, don’t bother. O.o is a troll who I’d previous banned, and then came back with a different username. (Anyone remember “Shrug” from Lisa’s second to last post?) It should be taken care of.

  48. (1) This quote from Nylon has no context and I think it is unfair to judge a person on one supposed comment rather than their life and behavior.

    (2) In actual fact, the book had Sookie encouraging the sex in the graveyard because she was worried that Bill would be so angry and out of control that he might hurt her (kill her? drain her?) – she figured sex would be a better distraction. To me that doesn’t exactly say “consent”.

  49. @Sheila
    No one is judging Moyer personally. The conversation all involves this quote taken from the article. I don’t believe that he was referring to the books at all.

  50. Team Bill! Team Bill!

    Er… I mean… We were saying…? 🙂

    It would be interesting to see if Moyer really meant what he said when he said “rape” – in regards to the scene on the show. The word “rape” is used in all sorts of contexts, most of them wrong ones…

  51. I really hate to defend Stephen Moyer (SOOKeh!), but I think he was getting at the idea of ravishment fantasies. And like others have said, it’s weird that he doesn’t get the whole point of the scene (and one of the major themes of the show really). Sookie Stackhouse is a pretty remarkable character precisely because she is in control of her own sexuality, and it’s one of the many reasons I watch the show in the first place.

    1. I haven’t really been following the conversation, but going through the mod queue, I keep seeing people saying something along the lines of “give the guy a break, he didn’t mean rape, he just said ‘rape’ to indicate a certain type of consensual sex.”

      You know, that’s entirely possible! But the first time I saw it and realized that the person saying it might be right, I felt absolutely sick to my stomach. Is calling rough or passionate consensual sex “rape” better than musing on whether or not actual rape is okay? Probably. But that doesn’t make it good! In fact, it’s really, really awful! The fact that people use the word “rape” to mean all kinds of things that aren’t really rape is something that feminists actually spend a good deal of time trying to counter. And I think that using the word to refer to consensual sex is a whole lot worse, actually, than saying “I totally got raped by that test.” Because the latter minimizes rape as not all that much worse than a bad test score (which is probably your own fault), but the former actually works to further blur the bright red line between consent and rape that most people see as far too blurry already. We have some people talking about rape as something that only happens when a guy jumps out of the bushes and beats the living shit out of you, and other people positively talking about rape as consensual and enjoyable sex that just so happens to be vigorous . . . is it really any wonder that there are so many damn arguments in the world over whether or not something was “really” rape, not to mention so many arguments over whether or not most rapes are actually serious? Dear lord.

  52. But that’s not the way I interpreted it when she said “And that, in a nutshell, is why so many modern women fantasize about being with vampires, be they Bill types or Eric types!”

    But that’s true. That is why many (although by no means all) modern women fantasize about being with vampires.

  53. @Renee. I’m sorry but I beg to differ. Even if the point of the article
    and thread is about society’s attitude toward and perceptions of rape, there are MANY people on this who are indeed judging Stephen Moyer. (accusations of mysogny, insensitivity etc.). Don’t get me wrong, this certainly sounds badly worded (at best!!) and possibly he is oblivious to the true definition of rape but I would prefer to save my condemnation of the man until I have read the full article in context. Also perhaps my viewing of the graveyard scene is colored by the book but perhaps the actor’s is too if he has a deeper understanding of his character’s motivations. If indeed he is referring to that exact scene and it is not simply the addition of the author – who is actually the one suggesting that Bill raped Sookie.

  54. This is a TV show, meant for entertainment. Don’t try to find issues where there are none. I’m all for equal rights, but I really dislike when feminists find problems where there shouldn’t be any. I’m extremely independent and no man could make me do something I didn’t want to, but to stare too much into the face of something that shouldn’t mean much…that’s just ridiculous. Moyer is just stating what he sees in the show, he’s allowed his opinion and view of the show, as we are ours. Just relax.

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