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Among The Things That Should Be Filed Under “Obvious”

Lauren

Marilyn Manson, kind of pathetically and kind of brilliantly, has set up and maintained a public persona built on shock value and being a voice for the angsty, teenage underdog for the better part of two decades. But in this interview, Manson really shows the adolescent colors necessary to maintain this mindset into his forties, wherein he admits he tried to abuse his then nineteen-year-old girlfriend into what? getting back together with him? making her REALLY SORRY? by calling her 158 times on Christmas Day, cutting himself all over his face and hands, then writing a song about her called “I Want to Kill You Like They Do in The Movies.”

I’m swooning right now, myself.

22 thoughts on Among The Things That Should Be Filed Under “Obvious”

  1. I get the point of your post but did you have to use the word lamely? Really I am so tired of everywhere I turn seeing lame as a descriptor…

  5. Well, he’s a disturbed person, but he does admit that what he did was stupid and wrong. I don’t think he’s glamorizing it.

  7. Just because what he did is wrong and stupid does not mean that those of us who like his music are all angsty teenagers. Really, if one has listened to his music closely like I have, there is a lot of meaning to it, rather than just whining and shock value. This of course does not excuse his behavior, but don’t insult me for the music I like.
    Forgive me if people think I am offended too easily. I have been on the receiving end of behavior like that before, and it scared me a lot, so I can understand why people are upset over this. However, again please do not call me an “angsty teenage underdog” for liking his “pathetic” music.

  8. He’s been down a weird path ever since starring as Paul on The Wonder Years.

    Urban legend…

  9. but he does admit that what he did was stupid and wrong. I don’t think he’s glamorizing it.

    And then he says he fantasizes about smashing her head in with a sledgehammer on a daily basis.

  10. I’m waiting for the point where he gives it up. Maintaining a public persona like that for a long period of time cannot possibly be healthy. It does make me wonder though, to what extent a celebrity is responsible to the public. I personally feel he should be doing more to balance out the stage persona, but I can never find enough people to agree with me.

  11. I used to think he was a smart and witty guy. After reading his creepy, misogynist comments to Lady Gaga in a recent issue of Rolling Stone and now this, I take it all back. Ick.

  12. Marilyn Manson used to amuse me. Though I always hated his music, I found it funny how his ultimately benign antics got people so up in arms.

    Then people stopped being easily shocked, and so he started doing actually harmful, and significantly harmful, stuff like sexually assaulting a security guard (he rubbed his genitals against the guard’s head while on stage, then when he sued Manson he got lots of shit from fans about being homophobic and unable to take a joke).

    My opinion thus dramatically changed. Add this into the pile of actually harmful stuff.

  13. Oh god, the Lady Gaga stuff, too! Yes, that.

    But I, too, Alexis, used to think that he was smart, so you’re not alone in that. And you know, he might actually be for all I know. But unfortunately being smart doesn’t make you immune to being a misogynist, or an asshole, or an abuser, or any number of other such things.

  14. Miss Werewolf,

    Don’t take it so personally. It’s his image and the audience he caters to – and I see that as a business decision. It doesn’t describe his entire audience.

  15. Actually Manson is a very much marketed and crafted image. I see him as the darker side of the boy bands that teenage girls love to scream at. He is very much a production of that which we have normalized even though we imagine that he feeds off of a so-called fringe element.

  16. disappointing to see so many displaying the very christian trait of thinking you know more about a person than he knows about himself. He started off as some crazy cross dressing hard rock/industrial punk, evolved into a more serious gothic antichrist, then depressing glam rocker, then a poptastic mixture of the last two and finally a boring pop superstar who has run out of tricks.

    He said some disturbing things but thats his sense of humor, he clearly does drugs and drinks a shit load of alcohol which could explain the crazier things he does. as for him being a product, who in the music industry isnt? the band are as much the product as the music hence concert DVDs and music videos. Manson has some cool songs but certainly isnt the messiah i once thought he was. i was a huge fan years ago. he does have some cool songs though (IMO).
    sorry about the length of this BTW.

  17. I don’t know. I think I started to understand him a lot better after I read his autobiography. It’s hard because I definitely don’t agree with his violent or sexist comments, but I think he is making a larger point. What it is, I’m not quite sure yet.

  18. The thing thats always gotten me about Manson is that he tells us a lot more about himself than I think he knows. He can go to the press and tell the world about how big a monster he is and how badly he treated his ex, but one wonders how much of that is bravado. He claims to have cut himself to punish her, but if you’ve been watching for awhile you remember that this isn’t the first time he’s engaged in self mutilation. His new album sneers and gnashes it’s teeth with a song like “I Want to Kill You Like They Do in the Movies” but if you listen through the album you hear more self-loathing than misogyny and you start to suspect that perhaps the barbs are an attempt to hold some of that at bay.

  19. William – in a world where women are murdered for the great foolishness of being born women, it doesn’t matter a God damn how much he hates himself and this covers up for that. It’s casual misogyny and it’s WRONG. Making a joke or a song out of wanting to kill a woman is all kinds of disturbed, and if he IS doing it as a calculated shock tactic? That makes it even worse.

  20. in a world where women are murdered for the great foolishness of being born women, it doesn’t matter a God damn how much he hates himself and this covers up for that. It’s casual misogyny and it’s WRONG.

    I don’t disagree in the slightest. Still, it happened and my tendency is to try to understand the psychology of things. Manson might be famous, but he isn’t really unique. What we have here is a chance to get some insight into what drives a specific kind of abuser. The point I was trying, and it would seem failing, to get at is that not all abuse of women and misogyny is going to be rooted in hating women. Its an important point because an abuser driven by self-loathing isn’t going to respond to education or punishment.

    Theres a song on his new album called “WOW.” The general theme of the song seems to be that he could never respect someone who could have sex with him because he’s so loathsome. Theres other stuff there, some shock and hurt thats probably meant to distract, but the core motivation seems to be: If you love me then I hate you because I hate me. Thats a different kind of abuse, and I think its one worth trying to understand given how common it is.

  21. You all will just have to forgive me, but I read Manson’s comments and see his antics and think of stalkers. His behavior towards Wood sounds abusive.

    I don’t care that it could be the drugs or the alcohol. I don’t care that it could just be bravado. This type of behavior is often used by men to manipulate the women they are/were involved with, and it’s bullshit. (It sure as hell is NOT funny, then again, I’m one of those people who have been subjected to this crap.) And I’m frankly disgusted to see some of his fans here excuse it.

    And you know, I don’t care WHY someone is abusive. That’s their problem. What I do know is that abusers don’t change, they do it because they can, because they are excused and pitied and given a pass by everyone around them who say what nice guys they are, or how they don’t really mean it, or they’re messed up themselves. As if these excuses somehow disappear the damage these shitstains have done to women. Fear not–we mean nothing, after all. Pay no attention to the bitches.

    And FFS, the man is my age or older, and he’s going off on a 22-year-old? He’s trying to manipulate and punish someone half his age? Who he started dating when she was all of 19?? SERIOUSLY? Boy needs to grow up already.

  22. And you know, I don’t care WHY someone is abusive.

    I don’t think trying to understand the psychology underlying a behavior is excusing it. What he did was inexcusable and abusive, but as you pointed out it really isn’t that unusual. Stalking and abuse are a real problem and they don’t develop in a vacuum. Understanding why abusers abuse can go a long way towards understanding what about our society makes them. Abuse is a motivated action, people do it for a reason. Its an exercise of power which nets the abuser some gain or helps them avoid some kind of undesirable affect or situation. Figuring out the psychology of a pattern of abuse, especially one as disturbingly common as Manson’s, can help us figure out how to protect future victims.

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