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This makes me want to get married in a church. In a white dress. Ideally “with child.”

I’m not sure I’m really the marrying kind (and I’m almost surely not the church-marrying kind), but this article makes me want a big church wedding. And it makes me want to wear Stephanie Seymour’s dress from this, but with more cleavage. (If only I had legs like Stephanie Seymour. Also boobs).

The article, titled “How Brides Should Dress,” is a missive by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. Here’s part of what he says:

A reader from Westminster, in England, points out that white is the usual color in the Western world because it usually signified the bride’s virginity. For this reason, in most Western cultures, a widow entering a second marriage would almost invariably eschew the formal bridal gown for simpler attire.

Our reader points out that in today’s world: “many brides come to the altar after a long period of cohabitation, often after bearing children.” The reader thus recommends that priests should encourage brides who arrive at marriage in this state to choose a less formal dress “out of modesty and honesty for herself, and through charity to those brides who approach their marriages in a pure state, that their traditional symbolic dress may not be debased or usurped.”

I certainly agree in principle and indeed numerous dioceses and parishes have regulations regarding couples who ask for marriage in irregular situations. Dioceses and parishes often recommend that the couples prefer a less solemn wedding celebration both out of respect for Church teaching and as a gesture of penance for their failings.

Call me immature, but I would totally favor debasing and usurping the dress of sanctimonious pricks who think that the only moral and “pure” women are ones with intact hymens. Especially if they think that a wedding should be an opportunity for a bride to pay penance for her slutitude.


71 thoughts on This makes me want to get married in a church. In a white dress. Ideally “with child.”

  1. I was just thinking this morning if I ever do anything remotely resembling a wedding / civil union, I’d go with shades of grey and garnet red. still . . . as you say Jill: call me immature but the minute anyone suggests I can’t or shouldn’t do something, it sure as hell makes me want to run out and do it!

  2. So those historical tales of white dresses being the “chosen” color because they denoted wealth and the ability to buy a special, impractical dress for one specific use? Total crap? At what point did white become purity only?

  3. Okay, Jill, you’ve totally changed my mind on the white dress. I figured when I got married I’d incorporate color because the general symbolism that I have to be pure and virgin disgusted me, and I felt like I was bowing to that idea. Not that I wanted people to say, “Since there’s a lot of red in her dress, she is clearly not a virgin!” (That’s not really anyone’s business anyway…) If I do get married one day, I’ll name my dress “The Great Usurper.” Thanks! 🙂

    (This is planned despite being pretty sure that I don’t think I want to get married.)

    (And I hope this made sense, since I did it at work. Eep.)

  4. The dear professor also has his facts wrong re: the traditional reasons for wearing white. Yes, white is a color that symbolizes innocence (and when it comes to women the only “innocence” we’re concerned with is what’s done with her lady parts), but the wearing of white for a wedding was a symbol of wealth and class standing. As in, ‘see, our family is so well of that we can afford to dress our daughter in this ridiculously impractical gown that she’ll only wear once, and just so it’s clear that she’ll never soil a finger doing commoners work, we’ll make sure it’s lily white.’

  5. white was originally intended to indicate joy. the whole purity crap was tacked on by men after the fact

  6. As usual, ignorance drives the self-righteousness of the Church.

    Brides didn’t start wearing white because it symbolizes virginity. They wore white because just as western society started getting rich, Queen Victoria eschewed traditional royal wedding dress and wore white to her wedding. The wedding was widely read about and every bride suddenly wanted to ‘be a queen’ for her wedding day.

    As, heh, victoria said, it was a status symbol to be able to wear a dress only once, furthering the ‘my day’ attitude for the bride.

    Add it all up, and Father Ed is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. But of course we knew that already.

  7. Two women in a non-gay-marriage state, both wearing white, with a child, getting married on the sidewalk in front of the statehouse… thanks to Social Security Administration refusing to change the transgender partner’s sex marker. Someone set it up, and let this guy know ASAP.

  8. I wish there were some kind of church-wide rule against women without hymens wearing white to their weddings. It would immediately become clear that approximately 0 people getting married nowadays are virgins. Maybe it would finally shut some of these people up.

  9. I think its pretty ridiculous that some people that I shouldn’t get to wear my cute little white dress just because I’m not a virgin anymore. Sometimes I forget that some people are still that backwards. Its really laughable, to me anyway, that people still feel that way. I’m not at all a proponent of “saving yourself” for marriage – I’m quite the opposite. I believe that if you’re going to spend the rest of your life with someone you ought to make sure you enjoy having sex with them. So the idea of purity and all that crap seems pretty childish to me.

  10. “Many dioceses and even parishes do have guidelines in order to respect Christian values such as modesty and a respect for the spirit of Christian poverty.”

    Christian poverty? I find this amusing coming from a Catholic official, with all their fancy outfits and more sequins than a Miss America pageant. 🙁

  11. Thankfully for all of us out there, we will not have to see you because no self respecting catholic church would ever let you in, especially if they knew that you were just acting like an immature teen. Go frown on something that is actually wrong. Like the mass murder of children.

    Snowe: either you are being funny or you fail to realize what meekness and honesty mean.

    The rest of you bigots just shame the name of women by treating us like we we react agaisnt anything men do or say, with no regards to content. Go read a book or something.

  12. I’m glad someone pointed out that white became popular only after Queen Victoria did it. It’s just a fashion statement, with puritanical crap attached to it after the fact by people who already had a bunch of puritanical crap and were looking for something to attach it to.

    (Also, there is a serious school of thought that Victorian prudery is unfairly named after Victoria and is more properly blamed on those twin prigs of the 19th century, Napoleon and Pitt — for the former, see Christopher Herold’s “Age of Napoleon,” for the latter … ah … Linda Colley’s “Britons”?)

  13. Each parish can set their own rules about various things regarding any of the sacraments, so it probably varies, but I have to say as a Catholic from a Catholic family (thus knowing many Catholic brides, most who had done the deed before getting married) — I have never heard of any brides being discouraged from wearing white from any actual official people in the church. I went through Pre Cana and (its been awhile) but I don’t remember them talking about it. So I don’t think there is any specific rule about it. Usually its the judgmental random relative that will make a comment about whether the bride “should” wear white, and make the bride feel uneasy about her choice, but I think that snark transcends Catholicism.

  14. Wait, but Samantha, I thought y’all wanted people to get married as immature teens?

  15. If it’s bad, ponygirl, I’m right there being bad with you.

    “a gesture of penance for their failings”? Wow. That is very asshole-ish. So apparently it’s a woman’s “failure” to be widowed? I’ll be sure to let my aunt know that. I’m sure she’ll be pleased. She didn’t wear white at her second wedding but I’m damn sure she didn’t choose pale blue because she’d failed by letting her first husband die of cancer.

    Samantha: Bite me.

  16. Thinking of it, I remember the bridal shop I went to for my dress (an Italian shop that all of us Catholic girls went to… the kind you get fitted for your merry widow with all the boning and everything… ugh) made a point of telling me how there was “white” and then they had dresses that were in a color very, very close to white but not white, so they would appear white without actually being white. So you could follow the rule without people knowing you followed the rule. Crazy, huh? And they also made my dress so that I could wear it covering my shoulders in the church, and then later off the shoulder. But again, this was driven by the seamstresses and maybe my mother, but not the priest.

  17. The mass murder of children, yes.

    Or the fact that some of these heathen sluts have the nerve to wear white wedding dresses after Labor Day.

  18. Best words on the subject I ever heard were from the movie Bull Durham. One character asks if she “deserves” to wear white for her wedding. Susan Sarnadon’s character answers: “Honey, we all deserve to wear white.” I will add: We all deserve to wear whatever we want.

  19. “Call me immature, but I would totally favor debasing and usurping the dress of sanctimonious pricks who think that the only moral and “pure” women are ones with intact hymens. Especially if they think that a wedding should be an opportunity for a bride to pay penance for her slutitude.”

    Come on, I’m not Catholic, but if a woman gets married in a tradition which considers marriage a sacrament and frowns upon sex outside wedlock while currently being involved in a lengthy cohabitations and after having gotten knocked up a couple of times, then you have to admit that she is on some level taking the piss. You have to give some props to the girls who do it in the spirit of sincerity, rather than one of brazen hypocrisy. Surely you can see that?

    Put yourself in his position. However far-fetched his beliefs are his presumably takes it seriously enough to devote his life to preaching his faith and celibacy. He’s not just talking the talk. But every day he finds himself surrounded by people who are, and are just going through the motions because of tradition and because it will look good in the photos. I can’t help but feel some sympathy for the man, it must be hellish.

  20. I got married in black…which was pretty fitting *wiggles eyebrows* Almost a year later after my husbands return from deployment we had a traditional wedding, mostly for our mothers. In that ceremony I was 7 weeks pregnant with my second child and wore a white gown. A couple older relatives commented about the white gown and added “at least I was married this time”

    And come on, 95% of Americans have premarital sex. So apparently the only “women” who can be married in white have to shop in the junior section and still need their parents consent before their wedding.

  21. Jill, Samantha/Daniel is way too much fun to ban quite yet. Let us keep playing with hir!

  22. Usually its the judgmental random relative that will make a comment about whether the bride “should” wear white, and make the bride feel uneasy about her choice, but I think that snark transcends Catholicism.

    God, weddings really bring that shit out of the woodwork, don’t they?

    A friend of mine is getting married this summer in a dress that is a very pale shade of pink. Because she frakkin’ loves pink and looks awesome in it – she’s even getting her fiance to wear a pink tie. We’re all snickering about what her very traditional mother’s going to say when she sees it.

  23. My maternal grandmother didn’t wear white to her wedding. It had nothing to do with her virginity (the state of which I neither know nor care about) – she married during WWII and wasn’t very wealthy.

    Unfortunately, I still fully expect my Very Judgmental Aunt (the elder daughter of above grandmother) will make some nasty remark when I fail to don a white dress for my upcoming exercise in heterosexual privilege wedding.

  24. I’m getting married next year and I keep seeing women on wedding-planning websites talk about how they “deserve” to wear a white dress because they’re virgins. Even though there’s also lots of discussion on these sites of the fact that white was a marker of status, not virginity, and that by now it’s just the traditional bride costume in our culture.

    It really irritates me. It’s like, oh, well the rest of you sluts can go ahead and wear a white dress if you want to, but I really deserve it.

    If you want to wait until you’re married to have sex, cool. I personally don’t think it’s a good idea to prescribe to everyone, but if it works for you, then it’s totally your choice to make and I support it. But it doesn’t make you better than other people. And for god’s sake, your personal choices regarding sex don’t dictate what colors you can or should wear.

    (If I were getting married in a much more formal, indoor ceremony, I’d want to wear this beautiful dark blue satin ballgown I saw a couple of years ago, with silver beading on the bodice. A friend of mine tried it on at a bridal gown store, and everyone in the store literally went quiet when she came out wearing it. It was stunning. It would look a bit silly at a semiformal garden wedding in spring, though. Man, I wish I had more opportunities to wear ballgowns.)

  25. “Go frown on something that is actually wrong. Like the mass murder of children. ”

    I always forget until the trolls remind me that NOTHING is wrong unless it involves the mass murder of children. Oh, when will we learn…

  26. Guess I’m immature too, as the first thing I thought of on reading this was: “Good thing I’m getting married in (what I’ve affectionately dubbed) Whore of Babylon Red”.

    The class angle of the white dress is fascinating. I didn’t actually know that was the source of the tradition, but it does make perfect sense.

    And this:

    I’m left wondering which part of the man’s costume symbolises his virginity…

    was gold.

  27. So what color and style of clothing do these clerics believe sexually impure men should wear at their weddings to communicate their penance?

    The answer communicates that this idea isn’t about purity, it is about supporting sexism.

  28. I don’t expect to get married and I hadn’t planned to wear a white dress on the off-chance I ever do get married, but now the dress is going to be white. And the marriage might be gay, I haven’t decided yet. Take that, church.

  29. Interesting that white is traditional considering that it is the color considered more appropriate for funerals rather than more festive occasions like weddings in the East Asian tradition.

    Incidentally, for the brides who mentioned they wore red to their weddings….that is THE color for an old fashion “traditional” Chinese wedding…..

  30. oo, nice bloody cross there, “Samantha.” say, aren’t you breaking something in your code with this kind of virtual impersonation? i bet there is if you look hard enough. here, your penance is three loud raspberries and a good swift boot in the ass.

  31. I always forget until the trolls remind me that NOTHING is wrong unless it involves the mass murder of children.

    Or gay people being happy.

  32. Actually, Samantha is my sister. She did not want you fem-nazis to have her email so I let her use mine. Good Job by the way being haters and bigots!Salaam,

  33. I lived with my husband for a few months before we got married (scandal! in my catholic family), and I wore a cream dress, but actually, that was because I look better in cream.

  34. I lived with my husband for 4 years before we got married. I wore an electric blue dress not out of any feeling about purity or the lack thereof but because I wanted a dress I’d wear more than once. I got a lot of use out of that dress before three children made me unable to fit it.

    There’s a lot of tradition behind wearing red to weddings – in China it’s been the color of joy, love and fertility for hundreds of years. Until very recently one wore white only to funerals there.

    Wearing the white, wear it once dress has been more about conspicuous consumption than purity until the religious asshats discovered it was one more way to try to subjugate women.

  35. Yes, I’m immature, too. Right now, I’m picturing myself—a non-virgin—in a white dress and my partner—another woman—in a fire engine red dress. Perhaps there will be a flower boy and a girl as ring bearer. I just want to offend the stodgy conservative folk in every possible way. You know, work all the angles.

  36. I think that looking like you’re conforming to patriarchal standards is often more important than what you really think. Men and all the guardians of sexism like women to look as if they’re under control, that they’re wiling to playing the game, that at least for one day they can be tamed.

    So I think that wearing white is *not* an act of rebellion, you know? It is paying lip service to ideas of purity – which is often enough to pacify people.

    My very non-virginal friend got recently married in white to the joy of her extended conservative family – I saw nothing radical about that.

  37. Miss Manners, an authority whose words I hold sacred (the Catholic Church, not so much) has laid down the law: a bride wears white to her first wedding, regardless of the state of her hymen. The white connotes innocence regarding marriage, not innocence regarding sex.

  38. Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University? That sounds totally made up, like Hollywood Upstairs Medical College or the University of Phoenix.

  39. oh, well the rest of you sluts can go ahead and wear a white dress if you want to, but I really deserve it.

    I’ll have all of you prudes know that y’all can go ahead and wear Whore Of Babylon Red dresses to your weddings if you want to, but I really deserve it.

    Stop trying to pretend you’re worthy of being a Slut Bride, because I think we all know the truth…

  40. I think its insane that a bride should wear something different from the white dress she may want just because she isn’t “pure” and needs to be honest to herself and the church. What a heap of cow dung. Should the man wear a different type of suit to display that he’s fucked someone and is no longer pure? Yeah, didn’t think so. But sure, as a woman, let me display my sexual status for everyone. Because, you know, that is the MORAL thing to do.

    I am against organized religion, but was raised in a Catholic family. I had to deal with their “i don’t like it” attitude when I moved in with my boyfriend (now husband), then when I proudly declared our decision to have a JP wedding outdoors. But, when it came to looking for a dress, they never once gave me any issue about what i wanted or “purity”. I had a gorgeous A-line sleeveless pale ivory gown with a long ass train and loads of detail. It was beautiful. And yeah, so I’m hardly a virgin, but I didn’t deserve to be in that dress any less than someone who is.

    And honestly, I am all for people cohabitating before marriage. In my situation, my husband and I really wanted to live together because we were best friends and wanted to be together in that way. We lived together for 3 years before our wedding, and it strengthened our commitment to each other and when we stood in front of our family and friends and said our vows, we truly knew what we were getting ourselves into and felt fully confident that we were doing what was best for us.

    So how would that not make me pure enough to wear a white dress? My love for my husband was pure and deep and honest. We were best friends, and truly a team. Why should i have had to wear something less than what i wanted so that i could demonstrate to all “oh, while we are having a grand celebration of our love, may it me known that i am not a pure woman, i’m sorry for that”. Fuck that.

  41. Deborah – I really enjoyed your comment. I chose pale ivory because it looked better on me as well. Not to many people look fantastic in lily white.

    Leslie – I really think its fantastic you wore electric blue! That’s awesome! I had still went with the ivory because it was what i really had in mind after my husband proposed. But I agree with you that it is very practical to get something you can get a lot of use from. I offset that my paying a fraction of what a wedding gown typically costs. So my frugality has me now feeling less bad about that gown being in a box. 🙂 You’re idea sounds more fun though. haha.

  42. @Thom
    His socks!

    I’m really getting tired of this whole idea that men aren’t men until they’ve had sex, but women MUST be pure bullshit.

    Who are guys supposed to sleep with then? other guys? *gasp* 😉

  43. However far-fetched his beliefs are his presumably takes it seriously enough to devote his life to preaching his faith and celibacy. He’s not just talking the talk.

    actually, we can’t assume that. we have no way of knowing if he is living up to his vows. he would not be the first catholic priest to publically slut shame while living a less than pure life…

  44. Ashley-that’s always been my theory on it. Though I haven’t seen very many religious conservatives agreeing with me.

  45. “Interesting that white is traditional considering that it is the color considered more appropriate for funerals rather than more festive occasions like weddings in the East Asian tradition.”

    It was a color associated with mourning in western older tradition as well. Complete reversal FTW.

  46. One of the few things I dislike about “The Simpsons” is that they’ve made that “hee hee, she wants a white wedding gown even though she’s not a virgin” stuff into something of a running gag.

    As for Father Whosis, cut him some slack. High-profile ceremonies like weddings and funerals are practically the only opportunities for guys like him to break the laity’s chops, now that we’ve gone through that whole Enlightenment thing.

  47. @Ashley in Texas:

    I agree with you 100%. But it reminds me of something I read in Yes Means Yes, well, alot of things. But most generally, the idea that women SHOULD be able to learn about their bodies, understand them, and discover what they do and don’t like. They will become more confident in their sexuality, be more satisfied, and be happier (with regard to sex). Here’s the thing though – that’s completely taboo in our society. Like you said, its totally ok for a man to have sex with whoever he wants and be respected for his “conquests”, but for women, we’re taught that sex is taboo, we’ll become sluts if we do it (esp. with too many people) and that we are here to please our man. It’s disgusting.

  48. My mother-in-law had the nerve to ask my what color my dress was going to be since it was my second wedding. I had chosen a silvery, pale green because I liked it, but for her to imply I shouldn’t wear white was infuriating.

  49. I’m a wedding planner, and the cultural nonsense about white drives me absolutely insane.

    First, I didn’t wear white to my wedding because I didn’t feel like it. I had several people ask me things like “don’t you think you’re missing out on something” (no) and “how will anyone know you’re the bride” (Uh…I’m the chick who got married?).

    Plus a lot of people simply look better in ivory than white, and yet insist on wearing the pure white because of the symbolism. I’ve had to convince several clients that “no, ivory is white, no one will say it’s not white, they can’t tell, and it looks BETTER ON YOU!”

  50. I went with a black dress for my wedding. It seemed practical to buy something I could wear again, especially given the sad student budget of my beau and I. Also white seemed like a silly choice for me given my lacking sense of tradition in every way, shape, and form.

  51. After years of horribly sinful cohabitation (and lots of burnt pancakes in the mornings), I would definitely plan on wearing white.

  52. Opoponax, ahahahaha! Truthfully I would also love an excuse to wear a huge, poofy red ballgown — although I tend to look better in darker shades, so maybe a nice wine red. Seriously, I want a lot of money for dresses, and a lot of balls to attend, as long as they are not Purity Balls.

    Ashley, yeah, I saw at least one woman post in a complete breakdown because she truly wanted to wear an ivory dress, and her family was saying truly awful things to her to force her to wear a bright white dress.

    Let’s review. Her family was saying she’d be sinful, impure, a Bad Woman, if she wore an ivory dress. The kind that basically is white, just a soft white and not that stark blue-white.

    WHAT IN THE WORLD.

  53. ” I have never heard of any brides being discouraged from wearing white from any actual official people in the church.”

    Actually, the last diocese I lived in had guidelines for those who were marrying after cohabiting. They said that if the couple was cohabiting, then they should eschew the church wedding and have a small private ceremony in the rectory *rolls eyes*. Many priests I knew ignored the instructions, but I know some parishes where members would snoop around to see if couples were cohabiting, and the priest would deny them their church wedding. Yet another reason I’m not catholic any more.

  54. In the unlikely event that I ever get married, I want to wear blue jeans to my fifteen-minute JP wedding.

    Save the money for a really nice honeymoon.

    Also, Daniel @ 40—you are aware that Salaam means peace, and is therefore a really odd thing to say after calling a bunch of people haters and bigots for expressing opinions different than your own?

  55. Should I ever wake up with my mind gone walkabout and decide to get married, I’ll wear a tuxedo, complete with top hat.  I’d get flak for that, but if I don’t get married with a clear indication that I’m still me (one who doesn’t care for dresses and does care for tuxedos, yum), what the hell am I doing getting married?

    (Moot cat is moot, because I have no intention of getting married unless there are tangible legal-type benefits for me and my partner or our future kid.)

  56. I got married in a green maternity sweater-tunic with matching pants. At a Justice of the Peace. My entire wedding cost the marriage license, two cars’ parking downtown and lunch at IHOP.

    I kind of regret not having had a really huge party to celebrate (it wasn’t an option at the time, I was heavily pregnant and not well with it), but I will never regret not having had an elaborate wedding ceremony complete with costumes.

  57. It’s absolutely ridiculous that there’s such a debate surrounding a woman’s right to wear white for her wedding. It’s only a colour, so who cares!

  58. *raises hand* Um, actually, it is the VEIL that is supposed to symbolize “purity”, not the color of the dress. When the woman reaches the end of the aisle the husband removes the veil as a symbol of uncovering her purity. Which makes it really creepy that so often it is FATHERS who do this.

    I don’t intend to wear a veil at my wedding because I see it as a symbol of cutting myself off from my friends and family members and bowing to patriacrchal dominance and the idea that “I must be virginal and hidden from everyone but my husband.” Might wear a white dress. Haven’t decided yet.

  59. Re the veil – I think they look pretty, especially the mantilla styled ones. That said, just about all the symbolism and cultural associations there are too icky to justify it for me. Also, my personal reading is that of the veiled bride as a package all wrapped up, a gift from father to husband.

    If I ever were to get married, while I probably wouldn’t go all the way to the extreme of blue jeans at the courthouse, I still couldn’t see myself wearing a veil. I can justify a fancy outfit I might not ever wear again for all kinds of symbolic and pragmatic reasons. I can’t justify draping myself like a piece of furniture you don’t want to get banged up in the moving van.

  60. The guidelines of the Catholic Church are only to be followed by those who believe.

    Why do you care enough to even make an article about such rules (or make a gesture in breaking such rules within a church setting), when they do not even pertain to you?

  61. What is this cultural taboo about not wearing wedding dresses after the wedding? I never understood why someone would spend months or years planning for this one dress that they will wear one day only. Many women have acted as if it’s the most important clothing decision of their lives, but not important enough to ever wear again? Why can’t it be worn to other formal occasions? Because only brides are allowed to wear beautiful white dresses? Why do people talk about getting dresses they can wear again – is there something wrong with wearing a formal white dress when you’re not getting married? To me it seems like it’s just consumerism that makes it seem like a fashion crime to “eek!” get more than one use out of a terribly expensive outfit.

  62. @Janet: I am not totally sure on this, but I believe it use to be customary in some places for the bride to appear in public in her wedding dress at least once within a year or two of getting married. I don’t get the never wearing agin thing either, but guess it is connected to the class symbolism (rich enough to get a dress for one occasion). At leas some people:
    Pass it down as a family heirloom and/or to be worn by next gen brides
    Sell it to a consignment shop
    Use the material to make other dresses that are not so formal

  63. I think women should be able to wear whatever they want to their wedding.

    However, I do find it ironic that the ones who go against Catholic values and criticize religion in general, are sometimes the ones to have the most traditional church wedding… oh, when a white dress and a priest are involved, suddenly we’re all holy now are we…

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