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Pro-Life? Go fuck yourself.

Jill

You know it’s a bad day when Dan Savage is totally and completely wrong. A young woman writes in:

Q. My boyfriend and I are 18, and we’re in love. We’ve been together for almost four years. He recently decided that he is against abortion, to the point where he won’t have sex with me unless I agree to have the kid if I get pregnant. I told him there’s no way I can agree to that. It’s my choice what I want to do with my body, but he says it’s his choice if he wants to stop having sex with me because he disagrees with my views on the matter. (Which is something he read in your column, BTW.) Where do I go from here? I can’t be celibate until I’m ready to have a kid. But I don’t want to break up with someone I love because of a sincere moral disagreement. What now? —ONE BOY’S GIRL YEARNS NERVOUSLY

And Mr. Savage answers:

A. As a general rule, OBGYN, fertile pro-choice girls shouldn’t have premarital sex with controlling anti-choice boys. But you love him, and sometimes love makes exceptions. So if you do stay with him, and you agree and/or pretend to agree to his conditions, and you get pregnant, and you do decide to have an abortion, what the hell is he going to do about it? Lock you in the trunk of his car for nine months? Whatever you tell him now, it will still be your body and your choice then. Use condoms, take the pill, get a diaphragm, cross your fingers, and fuck his brains out.

Sure, he has a point — her boyfriend can’t exactly force her to give birth (although in many states, her parents certainly could have before her latest birthday). But I think the larger question is, is there a problem with having sex and being in what is apparently a serious relationship with someone who doesn’t believe that you have a right to your own reproductive functions? And if you love someone, is lying to them about what you’ll do in case of pregnancy really the best option?

My rule: don’t do it with someone who thinks they own your uterus. Don’t have sex with conservatives. Don’t even consider exchanging body fluids with anti-choicers.

56 thoughts on Pro-Life? Go fuck yourself.

  1. I do understand where Savage is coming from; when you’re in the situation, it can be difficult to step back and just end it.

    In then end, though, I think your way is better. No woman should feel like she has to lie about pregnancy to stay in a relationship.

  2. Many anti-choicers are violent. This young woman risks being abused if she stays in her current relationship. Especially if she becomes pregnant. She should walk away now while she still can.

  3. Although I respectfully disagree with the kind commenter who thinks anti-choicers are statistically more likely to be partner abusers than pro-choicers, I do agree that the woman who wrote the letter should walk away.

    Remember, this guy may be an asshole who thinks he owns her uterus, or he may just be a guy who thinks pregnancy equals baby, and would want his. However, it’s the mother’s life who tends to change drastically after having a baby (wanted or unwanted), let’s face it. So he’s making these demands, using emotional blackmail to get his way, and if the worst case actually happened and she had the baby, his duty would consist of $300/month child support and giving up every other weekend.

    I wouldn’t trust a man who couldn’t see this, and would expect a woman to sacrifice so much just so he can be the moral victor.

    18 is so young though; I was militantly pro-life in my high school years (Catholic high school), so there is still hope for him to mature and see that not everything in life is as black and white as he likes to see it.

  4. She doesn’t necessarily have to tell him that she’s pregnant if she is. But that’s just more lying. Obviously not staying in a relationship with someone who had widely different beliefs than you is ideal, but when you’re in love or believe you are it’s difficult to just do what would be the most sensible option.

  5. here’s a thought… if she became pregnant with his child…. why can’t he force her to have it? too me, it seems that this could be a likely outcome in the near future given the recent legal status increases given to fetal tissues. it would seem that all he would need is to find the right judge to write the injunction against her future action. it will happen, if it hasn’t happened already…

  6. She does have complete control over her reproductive functions. If she doesn’t want to reproduce, she probably shouldn’t be performing the reproductive act.

    But now back to beating my wife…

  7. My advice to her would have been to dump him. I realize it’s hard when you feel like you’ve invested several years in a relationship but in the long run she’s better off not being with someone that is that disrespectful of her feelings. Count herself lucky she has not had children with him and chalk this one up to experience.

  8. Many anti-choicers are violent. This young woman risks being abused if she stays in her current relationship.

    Gee, I thought the whole point about being pro-choice was to respect the rights of individuals to make their own decision in the matter. This girl is in a relationship with someone who has different views on what is/isn’t acceptable in the situation of unplanned pregnancy. He’s made his feelings clear – he does not want to be in a situation in which he could get her pregnant and she would abort, he’s not dumping her, he’s not threatening her, he’s just saying he doesn’t want to risk being in that situation so he’s doing what’s in his power to prevent it by abstaining from sex. He’s being quite responsible, mature and consistent on the issue, pity not everyone is.

  9. To be technical he is issuing a threat or an ultimatum if you prefer to use that term — either agree with me or no more sex for you.

    If they cannot resolve an issue like this then she is better off without him as it is a sign of many struggles to come. It is possible for a liberal to have a relationship with a conservative, it’s also possible for pro-choicers to be with pro-lifers, if they have respect for each other’s beliefs, it’s not easy but it is possible. It’s obvious he doesn’t respect her feelings on this.

    Suggesting she just lie and say Okay isn’t the solution.

  10. That’s how I’m seeing it, Lisa. Certainly, it’s within his rights to not have sex with his girlfriend, but he’d be more compatible with a woman who shared his view on the matter.

  11. If she doesn’t want to reproduce, she probably shouldn’t be performing the reproductive act.

    Sex is just about reproduction and has nothing to do with pleasure, expression of affection, or basic biological drives. Right. And if you believe that I’ve got a bridge you’ll love at a special price just for you…

  12. Stop having sex with him. That will get his attention. Then, once you’ve got his full attention, dump him. Hard.

  13. It seems like Savage thinks that her dilemma is over not having sex and implies that it is best for her to lie to him so she can still get laid. When it comes to sex, if your views vary that drastically from your partner, you should rethink the relationship – is this really something you can deal with for the rest of your life?

  14. She should dump him, but I understand Savage’s urge–he knows he’s dealing with a teenager who probably won’t be on top of things enough to dump him. He knows she’s probably going to fuck the boy anyway, so he’s probably just giving her permission to have the abortion if she gets pregnant even if her boyfriend protests. It’s difficult sometimes to do what’s right when you’re a girl facing a world that disagrees with you.

  15. Who knows. He could be one of those guys who “conveniently” become ‘pro-choice’ when they discover their girlfriend/wife is pregnant, because the whole reality of pregnancy, parenthood, sacrifices, etc., hit ’em as a rude awakening. So let him withold sex and just dump him! She’s only eighteen, life’s too short, and I’m sure she can find another guy who actually respects her reproductive rights. Or she could stay single for awhile and be independent.

    “What now? —ONE BOY’S GIRL YEARNS NERVOUSLY”

    So she’s just “one boy’s girl”? I get this eerie sense that maybe he’s controlling.

    And they’re only eighteen! Yes they’ve been together for four years but still. Are they (or actually, is this guy) serious about the whole “pregnancy/potential baby” issue already?

  17. I won’t get into a philosophical debate on whether or not I feel abortion is right or wrong, but I think it’s a pretty clear-cut line you can draw here: don’t lie to have sex. There’s really no point in it. #1, Women gripe about guys lying to get sex; two wrongs still don’t make a right. #2, If sex is really all you want, there are plenty of fish in the sea #3, Relationships involve a lot of compromise, but sometimes you gotta know where to draw the line. If this is a make-it-or-break-it issue, then break it now before it gets really messy down the line. #4, Eh, just don’t lie. Nothing good ever comes of it, especially when you lie to your lover.

  18. Any number of omitted details could drastically change my take on this story, as I don’t know these people, but it seems to me that this guy isn’t trying to ‘control her uterus’ as much as he’s trying to control his semen–he’s being forthright with his views, after all, and isn’t trying to force her to have a child AFTER the fact. If overbearing asshole “pro-life” people took anything approaching this level of responsibility to be forthcoming and willingness to abstain from sex, I wouldn’t hate them near as much.

    I realise that the man is the asshole in these situations 95% of the time, but what would the appropriate advice to him be, other than ‘get over it: you’re going to have sex that will lead to an abortion eventually. Go fuck your girlfriend, it’s not that big of a deal’

    If she wants sex, and he wants a no-abort guarantee, then they should break up, as they have different, mostly irreonciliable (to make semi-blind, probably incorrect inferences from a second-hand account) priorites. Otherwise, they just need to deal with their current situation, and expand their sexual vocabulary beyond vaginal intercourse.

  19. He’s made his feelings clear – he does not want to be in a situation in which he could get her pregnant and she would abort, he’s not dumping her, he’s not threatening her, he’s just saying he doesn’t want to risk being in that situation so he’s doing what’s in his power to prevent it by abstaining from sex. He’s being quite responsible, mature and consistent on the issue, pity not everyone is.

    Honestly–although I agree with Amanda’s comment about what Savage may actually have been trying to accomplish–I agree with this. “I don’t want to get a pro-choice girl pregnant, because I don’t want to be partially responsible for an abortion,” is plenty ethical. It’s not withholding sex in the context of emotional abuse, any more than it would be if she were refusing to sleep with him unless he wore protection. It’s too bad that more pro-life men don’t make the logical connection to activist abstinence.

    It is not okay to attempt to extract a promise from her to the effect that she will give birth if they get her pregnant, especially if he knows her beliefs about choice in general and not having a baby in particular. He should make that choice himself, not stake their relationship against a child she doesn’t want to have. I don’t know that he would necessarily understand what’s wrong with that kind of pressure, though, since he seems not to have reasoned out the likely result.

    But she should honor his attempt at controlling his own body and break up with him–if only because she shouldn’t have to deal with a pregnancy and a pro-life boyfriend at the same time.

  20. My long term relationship terminated because of a similar problem – she wanted a baby. I didn’t.

    I must ask, was I trying to control her uterus by refusing to parent a child?

  22. But I thought citizens of the Culture of Life were not supposed to have sex except as a means of procreation. No abortions, no birth control, no premarital sex. As a (long since) lapsed Catholic, I’m quite sure he’s going to hell for thinking he can choose which rules he can break and which he can’t. Hey, he’s pro-choice after all! But, of course, only when it comes to his choices.

  23. But I thought citizens of the Culture of Life were not supposed to have sex except as a means of procreation.

    only if they knew logic as well as they know jesus…

  24. She should take him at his word and agree to separate.

    Either 1. the boyfriend is sincere in his belief and is non-violent, in which case she is at little physical risk should she be a low-life liar and agree to his condition to get sex, then get an abortion. OR 2. the boyfriend is more pro-control than “pro-life”, and willing to consider violence, in which case she could be at risk of abuse or death should he seek vengeance for her abortion – cf recent case where teen boy shot teen girl in abortion clinic, paralyzed her.

  25. This situation just screams out for the Wisdom of George Carlin: “Did you ever notice that the people who are against abortion are the ones you wouldn’t want to fuck in the first place?”

  26. I can’t believe what I’m reading on this thread. According to the letter, the boy said, “He recently decided that he is against abortion, to the point where he won’t have sex with me unless I agree to have the kid if I get pregnant.” There’s a really important point that’s going (mostly) unnoticed. The guy isn’t pro-life – at least according to the letter. He believes that abortion is wrong and is willing to refrain from sex accordingly. Maybe, just maybe, he has a strong moral conviction that he doesn’t wish to impose on everybody else. FrenchMustard put it well: “it seems to me that this guy isn’t trying to ‘control her uterus’ as much as he’s trying to control his semen”. What part of that isn’t justified?

  27. The part where he thinks his semen is his. It’s God’s semen. God’s, I tell you.

    Maybe, just maybe, he has a strong moral conviction that he doesn’t wish to impose on everybody else.

    He wishes to impose it on her.

    Anyway, if he has a strong moral conviction that abortion is wrong, he should simply refrain from having one.

  28. I’m not arguing that this guy doesn’t have the right to refuse to have sex. He can not have sex for the rest of his life if he’s afraid that a potential pregnancy may result in his partner having an abortion. That is certainly his right. But is it controlling to withold sex until his partner agrees to do what he wants her to do with her body in the event of a pregnancy? Yeah, it is. And do I think that Dan Savage gave bad advice when he advised this girl to lie? Yeah, I think he did.

    If she knows that she might have an abortion, it’s ridiculous to tell her boyfriend that she wouldn’t in order to get laid, particularly if they’re as in love as she claims in her letter. Lying, particularly about important things (like what you would do if you got pregnant) is generally bad for relationships. And, though this will undoubtedly ruffle some feathers, I’m of the view that anti-choice boys aren’t worth dating in the first place — it is just as controlling to believe “I should be able to tell my partner not to have an abortion” as it is to think “My partner should give birth to as many children as I want her to,” or “If my partner gets pregnant, I will make her have an abortion.”

    And remember, no one really knows how pro-choice they are until they’re in a situation where they may have to exercise that choice. I’ve known quite a few women who were strongly anti-choice — until they got pregnant or had a pregnancy scare. Then, for them, abortion was an option. So even if your female partner says she wouldn’t have an abortion, you never know — because neither does she. If anti-choice men want to ensure that they are never party to abortion, then I suggest they refrain from having sex ever, with anyone. Because once a pregnancy occurs, it’s just not their call — promise or no promise, ultimatum or no ultimatum.

  29. Oh, don’t date anti-choice boys. They don’t give head, either, even though logic would dictate that’s a safer choice for them.

  30. Jill, I wonder why you think he’s anti-choice. As I said before, he may oppose abortion on ethical grounds (I’m side-stepping whether or not those ground are at all justified), but be prefectly supportive of a women’s right to choose. Can’t you think of a particular behavior that you find offensive but do not wish to legislate?

    But is it controlling to withold sex until his partner agrees to do what he wants her to do with her body in the event of a pregnancy? Yeah, it is.

    It’s not necessarily an ultimatum. It seems from the letter that he just doesn’t want any part in an abortion and doesn’t want to contribute in any way.

  31. Oh, don’t date anti-choice boys. They don’t give head, either, even though logic would dictate that’s a safer choice for them.

    I’m always shocked and appalled by friends telling their bf’s won’t give head (never a problem with the bf not wanting head himself!). I always tell them to dump the selfish jerks. Bad sex is worse than no sex, and fear of vagina is a weak excuse… Sorry, that’s not very on-topic, but it’s come up a lot lately.

  32. Jill, I wonder why you think he’s anti-choice.

    To me, he’s manifestly anti-choice. In a committed “relationship” with a woman he “loves,” the conditions of that love are that she has no choice re abortion. That’s anti-choice. It’s nonsense to assert that he might be “perfectly supportive of a woman’s right to choose” and yet — hmm — not in his house. (that strikes me as falling short of “perfectly” supportive.) Imagine, for example, calling a person non-racist who was “perfectly supportive” of interracial marriage but not for anyone in his family. It’s simply unexamined, hypocritical gibberish.

    He is of course welcome to hold whatever dopey specious belief he wants, provided he doesn’t try to foist it on others. But, you know, they always do, and this is a perfect example.

    Can’t you think of a particular behavior that you find offensive but do not wish to legislate?

    Again, apply the racism (or for that matter, classism or homophobia or whatever other manner of bigotry) test: I don’t think jews should be illegal, but I ain’t marrying one and that don’t make me no racist.

    It’s not necessarily an ultimatum. It seems from the letter that he just doesn’t want any part in an abortion and doesn’t want to contribute in any way.

    This guy is even less respectable than your garden-variety pro-“life” guy who wants to stay a virgin until he’s married and THEN assumes the dick-headed position that his wife will sign away control of her body to him and procreate mindlessly per god’s will. He doesn’t even have the courage to go out on that stupid limb.

    And if it’s not an ultimatum, then he’s even more of a coward.

  33. I meant to block-quote the “can’t you think…” paragraph above, like this:

    Can’t you think of a particular behavior that you find offensive but do not wish to legislate?

  34. It’s nonsense to assert that he might be “perfectly supportive of a woman’s right to choose” and yet — hmm — not in his house. (that strikes me as falling short of “perfectly” supportive.) Imagine, for example, calling a person non-racist who was “perfectly supportive” of interracial marriage but not for anyone in his family. It’s simply unexamined, hypocritical gibberish.

    My point is that “anti-abortion” doesn’t equal “anti-choice”. He’s clearly against abortion. But that doesn’t mean he’s against “choice”. There’s a difference between saying “you can’t have an abortion” and “you can’t have an abortion with my help”. The former is an example of imposing values on other. The latter is not. He doesn’t want to have sex if it may lead to an abortion, which is something he finds offensive. He’s not trying to take away her rights, he’s just refusing to participate.

  36. David —

    I have two problems with what you are saying:

    1) He is participating by having a relationship with her. According to him, in the context of their relationship, she is not entitled to her rights, though he may support (as you point out) her right to an abortion abstractly in the society at large. This, I’m sure, would be a great consolation to her would she find herself pregnant with his pig-fetus.
    2) The objection to abortion, traditionally, is that it’s murder. Unless he’s holding to some other objection — like, people who have abortions are irresponsible or selfish or lazy (i.e. like the anti-welfare argument) — there really isn’t any plausible wiggle room here. If he finds abortion offensive, he finds it offensive because he believes it is killing a person. If he believes that, he is anti-choice and he is anti-abortion.

    I have a third point. I actually could respect someone who made the argument that, while abortion is in fact killing a person, it is still morally justifiable because we prefer to live in a society where women’s rights and everyone’s right to privacy are protected. But the reverse argument – I support a woman’s right to choose, but not yours – is vile.

    Shorter version: he’s not pro-choice and there’s no room to interpret it that way. Why would you want to?

  37. That’s somewhat fair, David, but he needs to dump her instead of demand compliance in exchange for sex.

    Point. I think I deemphasized this in my initial reading, because I can’t imagine staying with such a person, or choosing, “Well, gee, I guess this child would be technically wanted–just not by me,” over, “Better luck on eharmony, babe!”

    But it seems like there’s some ambiguity as to whether he’s demanding compliance by withholding sex–“Either you have my baby or no more nooky”–or whether he’s giving her an ultimatum in the context of a potential breakup: “I’m not going to have sex with a woman who would abort the resulting fetus; make of that what you will.” The former is abusive; the latter is a sensible choice–although, like you said, he should just dump the pro-choice girlfriend already, and find someone who shares his views. It is his right to not help cause a pregnancy which will result in an abortion, and to know whether the person he’s sleeping with would abort.

  38. I once dumped a boyfriend because he didn’t want me to be on birth control. His justification was that if I were on birthcontrol he wouldn’t know if I was cheating on him.

    ??????????

    This wasn’t the only reason I split with him. He obviously wasn’t that smart either.

  39. This wasn’t the only reason I split with him. He obviously wasn’t that smart either.

    What? Why? He came up with a great anti-cheating strategy!

    *Snort*

    Oh, my God. You should have just told him that you’d start cheating with men who looked enough like him to father ambiguous children. “Look, sweetie! That guy at the next table over has your eyes! Hold on a second while I get his digits.”

  41. He genuinely believed that this was a useful strategy. Not kidding. He was appalled that I thought he and his criteria were stupid.

  42. I remember once thinking (circa 1986) that my girlfriend’s extreme germ/STD/AIDS phobia would stop her from cheating. Of course, I never announced my theory. And of course, I was wrong.

  44. you and the boyfriend are both right. if he’s that pro-life, he shouldn’t be having sex with a woman who’s pro-choice. nor she with him.

    dan savage’s answer is so perfect for a gay-republican sellout. “do whatever suits you — there’s no right and wrong,” he says. but lying to the boyfriend is repulsive behavior. he’s being honest and acting according to his conscience. but because this woman “loves” him, she’s supposed to lie to him and potentially do something that will hurt him immensely?

    did you know that dan savage committed voter fraud in iowa? then when he got in trouble for gloating about it on salon, he said his column was mostly lies.

    i liked his sex advice until he wrote a column selling the war in ira

  45. did you know that dan savage committed voter fraud in iowa?

    …as an attempt to show people how easy voter fraud was, IIRC. Context is sort of important here.

  46. Why the heck hasn’t Mr. Queasy-about-abortion gotten himself snipped? Then he won’t ever have to worry about his precious little fetus being aborted…

  49. Your body? I guess that makes you feel better about murdering a baby via blender and vacuum cleaner.

    It amazes me the way some people will twist our langauge around to suit their current argument. If a woman is pregnant and decides on abortion, it’s “her body” and it’s “her decision.” But if she opts to give birth (same baby), then John better pay up his child support for “his kids” and take care of “his responsibilities.”

    What changed? Seven, eight months, maybe? 32 weeks and it goes from “my body” to “your kid.” It’s as clear as water. Hypocrites, especially feminist hypocrites, make me wanna puke.”

    Have a better one…killer.

  50. Marksman-

    Do you cry yourself to sleep after masturbating because you feel so guilty for ending precious, potential life? Just an egg and nine more months and that’s your baby, you know.

  52. Just a cheeseburger and a day later it’s converted to glucose in human cells! The rain fell on the grass and fed the grass and was eaten by the cow who made the cheese and the burger which you ate which is you which is your sperm which you shot into your sock which got washed and flushed into the sewer to feed the microbes which washed out to sea to be evaporated by the sun and desposited in the silt and the soil which fed the grass which fed the cow who made the cheese which made you which made your comment which caused my comment, which which which and and but but it’s the whole fucking cycle of life, “Marksman.”

    I also like the causation from conception to child support. I think you missed a step. p.s. divorce, also a mortal sin. Do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dollars.

  53. It amazes me the way some people will twist our langauge around to suit their current argument. If a woman is pregnant and decides on abortion, it’s “her body” and it’s “her decision.” But if she opts to give birth (same baby), then John better pay up his child support for “his kids” and take care of “his responsibilities.”

    …And yet, you put “responsibilities” in insult quotes. Nice.

  54. no, he’s just a “pro-war progressive“…

    which, along with a buck-fifty, will buy you a cup of coffee.

    …But it still won’t get you into the Republican Party.

    Plus, “voter fraud” vs. “voter fraud to demonstrate insecure elections.”

    I have no uncomplicated love for Dan Savage, but the comment was inaccurate.

  55. Just an egg and nine more months and that’s your baby, you know.

    Jill- it’s much more serious than that. It’s thousands upon thousands of babies. Makes our masturbating marksman guilty of genocide, no?

  56. I’ve read and re-read this several times. Although the young lad well may be a control freak there isn’t anything written in those few paragraphs to so indicate. The way I read the question was that he wasn’t withholding sex as punishment, but to insure pregnancy didn’t take place. While she is also affected by his decision, he is taking responsibility.

    Sometimes in relationships/life you encounter situations that render compromise impossible. When that happens you can only go your separate ways.

    Based solely on the information provided I can’t paint him with anything other than an idiot brush – though he well may deserve an entire pallate of colors.

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