In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

“Exceeding Proper Measure”

Hello everyone…Lenka from farkleberries here, proud to be guest-blogging at feministe this week!

I thought this might be a good forum to discuss something that’s been on my mind a lot lately: the increasing media and public trend of equating food with “sin,” intemperance, even immorality, especially when women are doing the eating. Strangely enough, after I decided on this morning’s topic I consulted the Virtual I Ching, and darned if both hexagrams didn’t come up as “Corners of the Mouth: Providing Nourishment“:

At the foot of the mountain, thunder:
The image of Providing Nourishment.
Thus the superior man is careful of his words
And temperate in eating and drinking.

“The superior man takes it as a pattern for the nourishment and cultivation of his character. Words are a movement going from within outward. Eating and drinking are movements from without inward. Both kinds of movement can be modified by tranquillity. For tranquillity keeps the words that come out of the mouth from exceeding proper measure, and keeps the food that goes into the mouth from exceeding its proper measure. Thus character is cultivated.”

Excusing the androcentric language of the ancient oracle, we read in these old words the same prejudicial sentiment that underlies the belief that overweight people, especially women, are somehow inferior to those that are not – and that women should not only be thin, but they should just be “temperate in their use of words,” and just shut up.

On that note, a little about my personal experience with weight. After being a very thin teenager (5′ 3″ and 92 pounds without really trying; my high school nurse was concerned that I might be anorexic) until about age 20, I rose to a high of about 165 pounds about 6 years later. I did eventually lose the weight again, although like many people I’ve had alternating periods of lower and higher body weights that have depended on my emotional state, my job, and my relationship status. Currently I’m about midway between these two weights, and to be perfectly honest, although I’m still about 20 pounds above my Met Life actuarial “ideal weight,” I feel as though this is the “right” weight for this point in my life. Fortunately, I’ve concluded that I am most content with myself and my body where I am, and in retrospect I realize that during both my very “thin” and very “heavy” phases, I was experiencing some level of depression and unhappiness.

Although I received positive feedback from my always-skinny parents on my “shape” when was extra-thin, for me, being thin did not equate with being happy. However, like much of our society, they simply assumed that when my weight was down, I was “successful and cheery.” For me, optimal balance is not necessarily where society decrees my “proper measure” to be.

But at those times when I’ve been heavier, I did notice that I somehow became “invisible” to the outside world. One of the effects I saw was that people at sales desks or in other positions of service would frequently overlook me for other, thinner shoppers, even when I had tried to get their attention first. Part of me thought I was imagining things, or being paranoid. After some time, I realized I wasn’t imagining it.

Today, I read this story about a Rice Unversity study that examined prejudice against overweight female shoppers [via Brutal Women] at a large Houston shopping mall. Apparently, it’s true: if you are overweight, salespeople will treat you like a second-class citizen:

Sales clerks tend to subtly discriminate against overweight shoppers but treat them more favorably if they perceive that the individual is trying to lose weight, according to a study by Rice University researchers.

The research, conducted in a large Houston shopping mall, will be presented in a poster session at the annual conference of the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology (SIOP) April 15-17 in Los Angeles. SIOP singled out the study as the most outstanding student contribution to the conference by selecting it for the organization’s John C. Flanagan Award…The researchers used female participants only for their study because research consistently shows that women are judged and stigmatized on the basis of weight and appearance more than men are, King said.

Ten average-weight Caucasian women between the ages of 19 and 28 played the role of customer in four different scenarios: an average-weight shopper in casual attire, an average-weight shopper in professional attire, an obese shopper (the result of a size 22 obesity prosthetic worn under the clothing) in casual attire and an obese shopper in professional attire. Following a memorized script, the shoppers sought assistance with picking out a birthday gift in various stores; after each shopping experience, they filled out a questionnaire evaluating the way they were treated by the sales clerk. A tape recorder in their purse captured the conversations so that the sales clerks’ tone, inflection and choice of words could be analyzed. In addition, the researchers stationed an observer in the store within hearing range of the shopper to provide a second opinion of how each interaction fared by filling out a questionnaire after each shopping experience.

Based on data from interactions in 152 stores in a large mall, the researchers found greater levels of interpersonal discrimination directed toward obese shoppers than toward average-weight shoppers. The findings were based on the observers’ and customers’ reports of the sales clerks’ eye contact, friendliness, rudeness, smile, premature ending of the interaction, length of interaction time, and negative language and tone. Almost three-fourths of the sales clerks were women.

“One of the most stigmatized groups is the obese because their problem is perceived to be controllable,” King said. She noted that in her study, the casually dressed obese shoppers experienced more interpersonal discrimination than the professionally dressed obese shoppers and both the casually dressed and professionally dressed average-weight shoppers. The professional attire implied that the obese shopper was making an effort to improve her appearance, which removed the justification for prejudice, King said.

The next phase of the study seemed to bear that analysis out. Seven women between the ages of 19 and 24 (six Caucasian, one Hispanic) took on the role of obese and non-obese shoppers, but another variable was added: the shopper carried either a diet cola or an ice cream drink. The diet-cola drinker called attention to her drink and mentioned that she’s on a diet and just completed a half marathon. The shopper with the ice cream drink also called attention to her beverage and mentioned that she’s not on a diet and could never run a half marathon.

Based on interactions conducted in 66 stores, interpersonal discrimination did not differ between average-weight shoppers regardless of whether they were carrying the diet cola or the ice cream drink, or between obese shoppers who drank the diet beverage. As King noted, the perception that the latter group was making an effort to lose weight lowered the justification for discrimination against them. The obese shoppers with the ice cream drink received the greatest amount of interpersonal discrimination, presumably because they fit the stereotype of overweight people as being lazy.

Perhaps the results of this study don’t come as surprising news, but the research does prove what many of us suspected all along. The article goes on to mention that the women who experienced weight-related informal discrimination filled out questionnaires detailing their satisfaction with their shopping experience, how much they spent, and whether they would shop at that establishment again. Many of them spent considerably less when they were treated poorly, and would not return to the store in the future. Clearly, even informal weight discrimination impacts businesses’ bottom line.

Looking beyond this study, we see evidence of contradictory messages consumers receive regarding their consumption habits. While some merchants intentionally or unwittingly discriminate against larger-size customers, other marketers like restaurants that may occupy the same venues are increasingly advertising not only “super size” items, but “super-super-size” items with gruesomely high calorie counts that colloqually go by the name “food porn.”

The term is apt. Even if many women aren’t indulging in 1,400-calorie hamburgers, societal perception of overindulgence in food increasingly tags women as not only sloppy or intemperate, but downright sinful. Observe how people – especially women – police themselves when selecting from a buffet or dishing up family style. Men and other women often think nothing of expressing comments like “you sure must be hungry!” “you’re sure you want to eat all that?” “Something you’re not telling us, dear? You’re not eating for two, are you? (wink, wink)”

Ironically, the more food (incorrectly) becomes associated with immorality or forbidden pleasure, the more out of touch we become with our real bodies and our natural appetites. Much has been written about the so-called “French Paradox” and the idea that European women are statistically less obese than American women. My theory? Woman abroad are probably far less uptight about eating in general, and know how to enjoy food without viewing every bite as a crime against prevailing standards of beauty.

Food isn’t the enemy, but our internalized and socially sanctioned toxic attitudes about women, nourishment and body image certainly are.

UPDATE: I just want to clarify something in my post that may be unclear, as it was taken out of context on Joel’s post, mentioned in the comments. He makes some valid detailed points in his disagreement with my post, but the point I am responding to was his mention of my “struggle with anorexia”‘:

Hello Joel –

Thank you for the detailed response.

May I correct something you wrote in your post? You mention that “Lenka has a history of anorexia. I do not wish to belittle her struggle against this disease.”

Actually, Joel, I do not have a history of anorexia, or of any other eating disorder. What I wrote in the post was that in my teen years, I weighed about 92 pounds – on the low side of normal weight for my height, but I was a normal eater with a healthy teen appetite.

However, I was quite skinny with a very small frame, and the high school nurse notified my parents that my low weight was of concern. Anorexia is of course a serious issue for young girls, but that, fortunately, was not a problem. In the twenty years since then, I’ve had fluctuations mainly in my jobs (some sedentary, some rather active) and exercise levels which are at the root of those weight changes.

I just wanted to address that specific point.

By the way, thank you for the detailed follow up…yes, this Rice U. study did only address the experiences women in the test group, but if the test group were composed of men, I am sure there would be similar effects.

In case anyone’s curious, that current “comfortable weight” I mentioned is 138 pounds. Not terribly high, but still 20 pounds overweight according to those Met Life tables. 😉


12 thoughts on “Exceeding Proper Measure”

  1. A similar discussion of weight-based discrimination took place at Alas, A Blog that asserted that the majority of this kind of discrimination is class-based. But you definitely have one thing right here: the societal messages we get about food are deplorable. That something that sustains us is considered “sinful” is beyond me.

  2. Regarding the “French paradox”: I think there’s three reasons for this. The first one is walking; most of the rest of the world walks far more than U.S. citizens. People I’ve met from other countries are astonished at how little walking we do in the U.S. A couple hundred calories a day worth of walking makes a huge difference.

    Two, smaller portion sizes. That “super-sizing” does make a difference, especially since most folks in the U.S. are taught from an early age never to waste food—clean your plate!

    And three, the food itself is higher in calories, and richer tasting. Thus, you don’t need to eat a whole helluva lot of it to get that satisfied feeling. Seriously. Compare fresh mozzarella to those shitty, odious American cheese slices. Ounce for ounce, you’ll find yourself eating more American cheese (if you can stomach it—ok, I admit, I’m a food snob) than the mozzarella. Try some real French chocolate truffles. They’re so rich tasting, one or two is enough. Contrast that to the amount of typical American candy bar you’d have to eat to get the same level of “full” feeling—you’re doubling your calories, right there.

    I haven’t read the book “The French Paradox”, but I’ll bet it has something to say along those lines. That, and the U.S. tendency of folks to “diet”, restricting calorie intake to the point of lowered metabolism…..I think that’s making people heavier too. The more muscle weight you have, the more calories you’ll burn at rest.

  3. it seems like the food = sin is related to the sex=sin. both have gender double standards. women with “lusty” appetites of various sorts are somehow out of control, undiginified, undisciplines, and unfeminine. because femininity involves a lot of discipline and control of the body, all parts of it.

    i remember reading something a few years ago about GAP stores not carrying their largest sizes in the store, only in the catalogue, because they didn’t want larger customers to be seen in their stores. something to do with their “image” or “brand”. don’t want a fat brand! maybe that’s why it’s so hard to find even regular sizes in some stores.

    gross!

    (I hope I’m right about it being the GAP…it may not have been)

  4. Joel –

    I tried to post the comment/correction mentioned in the “update” to this post, but for some reason the site would not let me send the comment. Probably my browser. I have sent the text of the comment to you via your “contact me” link. Thanks.

  5. if the test group were composed of men, I am sure there would be similar effects.

    It depends on how heavy the men would be. The threshold of discrimination for men is significantly higher than that for women. I’ve often heard people say, “Oh, he just likes his food,” about a fat man, while showing revulsion for a woman of a similar weight and frame. They call a 200 lb woman ‘enormous’ but a 250 lb man ‘burly’ or ‘husky’.

    Just as women must show some restraint over their sexuality, they must also restrain their eating habits and body size. The double standard strikes again.

  6. Lauren identifies the problem but gets it wrong! People who consider food as ‘energy’ or mere ‘sustenance’ are the problem, and they tend to often eat junk and overeat. We should not view food as fuel. Take time to prepare good food and then savour and enjoy eating it.

    I’m overweight, and reasonably ashamed at myself – though, luckily not so overweight I look fat even when dressed. I also keep telling myself I will do something about it.

    La Luba is right about the French. Dark chocolate is a luxury and is eaten 1-2 times a week in very small amounts – the current edition of Newsweek talks about the cholocate trend in the US slowly going to the European model, well worth a read. Also, think of it all in marginalistic terms (like Micawber’s finances in Dickens)
    Daily intake 2000 calories, daily use 2001 calories. Result = lose weight
    daily intake 2000 calories, daily use 1999 calories. result = put on weight
    Doesnt matter how much you eat or consume, but they need to be balanced.

    The male/female thing is sexual? In actual fact men are more attracted to meaty women; that society suggests women need to be thin is actually an hypocrisy – but it may well be a woman-made one! I think it would be unfair to suggest it’s a man fault. [However, I dont care to go into my reasoning]
    Being overweight though socially (like eating lots of food) used to demonstrate wealth and importance – Americans still use the abundance and size of their food portions and at low prices, to make themselves feel superior to Europeans. However, being overweight now is more a sign of stupidity and being poor.

    Alassra: 200lb woman vs 250lb man is very different. In part because of heights and therefore the fact bodies are a cube (xyz) – shorter people more affected by BMI tables as discussed on this site before I think. Also men and women deposit fat in different places – finally in women (but not in men ??) being fat has a negative impact on intelligence (search BBC.co.uk); and in both it affects fertility.

    You could argue being overweight is more bad for women than men based on social issues and double standards – but in truth you are making an apology for people being overweight and unhealthy.

  7. Wow. So much loathing and self-hatred, all wrapped up into one comment.

    Fat women are stupid? I’ve heard that hundreds of times in my life, yet it never stops sounding appallingly ridiculous. You won’t even do me the courtesy of providing a link for this ‘evidence’, but being fat, I’m supposed to be stupid. How can I search for it myself? I’m undoubtably lazy as well, so even if I were smart enough, I could hardly muster the energy to do it.

    I’m apologising for people who are fat, or as you say, ‘overweight and unhealthy’? Ah yes, that old assumption, that all fat people are unhealthy. It has been proved time and time and time again that weight has little to do with health until one reaches the highest weights, and even then it is better to be very fat than very thin.

    But let’s say that it is always unhealthy to be fat — how does that justify treating a fat person like dirt? It’s a moral judgment based purely on physical appearance. You know nothing about this person or their habits, you don’t know if they’ve been dieting since they were 5 years old, you don’t know if they recently lost 100 lbs but are still fat by society’s standards, you don’t know a damn thing about them but are quite happy to judge them based on their physical appearance — and only one factor of appearance: weight. Treating them like a human being, with respect and common decency, is too much? Or should we continue ‘shaming’ them into losing weight by making no attempt to hide our revulsion? Because that’s worked well so far, hasn’t it? After decades of fat hatred, everyone’s thin! Or not.

    I really can’t believe I’m reading this on a feminist blog. I know it’s not Lauren’s fault, but for fuck’s sake. I thought the people reading this wouldn’t blindly swallow everything the media feeds them (no pun intended). We disbelieve it when it says Bush is great, but we drool and nod our heads when it says fat people are horrible gluttons? We don’t even think for a second that all these ‘studies’ and all of this ‘research’ might be paid for by the diet industry?

    Open your fucking eyes.

  8. Just wanted to point out that when I wrote “this Rice U. study did only address the experiences women in the test group, but if the test group were composed of men, I am sure there would be similar effects,” I was referring to the difference in how well-dressed heavy people are treated in comparison to casually-dressed heavy people.

    The Rice study – incorrectly, I think – attributed the difference in treatment based on attirue on the assumption that profesionally-dressed heavy people were “trying to look better.” I suspect more of the clerks’ behavioral difference was based on the customers’ perceived class and economic status. That said, I think there is much more public discrimination against heavier women in casual dress than to heavier men in casual dress. This probably goes back to centuries-old assumptions that heavier men – the stereotypical “fat cats,” if you will – were wealther and had social clout: they did not have to resort to manual labor, and could afford to eat rich food. A heavier casually-dressed male shopper is still however usually does not experience the same level of discrimination as a female would. However, this is probably because women’s social capital in our culture is more closely tied to perceptions of physical attractiveness, and they are in a less powerful position in society in general.

    Also, I think experiments would bear out that stereotyping increases exponentially according to the number of minority-status imputations an individual carries: for example, if one is overweight and female the effect is considerably greater that if one was only overweight or only female. Add factor(s) like ethnic minority status and perceived lower socioeconomic status, and discriminatory behavior increases greatly.

    One of the reactions to this post was this: “We should no more promote defending those who overeat than we should defend those who smoke cigarettes or drink or shoot up or tweak. People avoid people who are publically drunk as well. Should we take up their cause?” I think this statement confirms my contention that being overweight is often perceives as sinful, even criminal. I think the point the writed was trying to make was that the same social controls that express public disapproval of drunkenness or drug abuse are also useful in discouraging obesity.

    Unfortunately, as Alassra points out, if shaming heavy people were enough to motivate lasting weight loss, then our intensely fat-shaming society would have been effective in reducing obesity rates. Obviously, it hasn’t.

  9. Alassra: I dont discriminate on a personal lvl, I discuss the problem of obesity on a social level. And being too thin is as bad as being too fat, I would never argue otherwise. Maybe worse, as you suggest. The link to the article is:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4032261.stm – sorry for not providing before but was busy working.
    The study/article didnt mention men hence the ??

    Lenka: most governments do stuff to discourage people from over-drinking, smoking and narcotics. There’s licensing laws, age restrictions, taxes etc Yet governments don’t do much to educate people on the dangers of over/under-eating – we attribute malnutrition as a problem of the Third world. Yet a lot of Americans and Europeans are malnourished – though quite heavy and eat an awful lot.

    Alley rat: Not a troll, probably, I mean it depends how its defined. Shame and self-hatred lead to depression –> comfort eating, more overweight, etc I identify with the weight fluctuation the author of the article talks about since my weight, happiness, love-life, lifestyle, diet etc all fluctuate. Currently, I am rather happy, unashamed and dont hate myself – but still realise I am overweight, but in the area where it isnt too dangerous.

    Just cos I am a guy I dont want people saying to me my overweight is manly or that crap. The author (or some commentator) thinks society is worse to say bad things about fat women, nice things about fat men, she’s wrong. Totally wrong. I dont want my stomach told to me that its cute any more than a woman with a stomach likes looks of disgust on other people’s faces. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, if I wanted scyophants I’d be a pop star.

  10. Agreed, our government does try to discourage smoking, overeating and drug use as public health risks through a variety of methods. The difference, I think, is that obesity and overeating have especially complex social connections. On the one hand, the pleasures of food are intimately tied with family, friendship, and tradition, yet our society places a very high value on being thin. Unlike “kicking” the habits of smoking, drinking, or drugs, achieving permanent weight loss involves more than making the simple choice to “eat less.”

    Part of the reason obesity is a bigger problem for the poor (besides the fact that many low-cost foods are also high in fat and calories while being low in nutritive value) is that the pleasure and comfort available from food is cheap, easily obtained, and legal – unlike many pleasures available to the wealthy.

    There is also a long time lag between the effects of eating changesand weight change. A person can overeat for weeks or months before they notice major changes in their weight, and likewise, weeks or months of dieting and exercise are often needed before people observe weight loss. I’m not trying to say that eating healthier and exercising are ineffective, only that these habits are much harder to sustain permanently, and many people become discouraged that they aren’t seeing results.

    And, Monjo, if you were referring to this post, I don’t recall ever saying that “society is worse to say bad things about fat women, nice things about fat men.” That would simply be expecting the genders to be treated differently. The point I was trying to make was that society says worse things about fat women than it does about fat men. That’s an important difference. Being obese is equally unhealthy for men and women, but heavy women appear to be the targets of more hatred and shaming than heavy men.

    I’m also not saying that anyone should be sycophantic towards heavy people, or that the obese need to be “told their stomach is cute.” Why should strangers need to comment on another’s weight at all?

    Overweight people are usually all too aware that they’re overweight – they don’t need strangers and store clerks in totally irrelevant situations – like shopping – treating them like poorly for them to be made aware of the fact.

    Here’s another hypothetical situation, bit different in nature, but which I think serves to make a point about the appropriateness of public shaming. Suppose, for example, that male baldness were as socially disapproved of as obesity. While it is chiefly genetic, it is also a “controllable” trait. Men can have hair transplants, wear hairpieces, or take hormone-altering medications to replace missing hair. Would it be appropriate for store clerks and strangers to be rude or condescending to bald men, or comment on their baldness, to make them change?

    No, being overweight is not “healthy” for the body, but I’m certain that the level of public shaming the obese receive has nothing to do with strangers’ concern for their health and well-being.

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