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The sister-punishers are out in force

zuzu

More on the Spitzer mess. This time, we’re hearing from the sister-punishing Serena Joys who’ll happily tear down their own gender if it means they get to spend more time in the warm, warm glow of the television lights:

“Are you saying the women should feel guilty, like they somehow drove the man to cheat?” a visibly aghast Meredith Vieira of “Today” asked Dr. Laura Schlessinger,* a radio host.

Dr. Schlessinger replied, “Yes, I hold women accountable for tossing out perfectly good men by not treating them with the love and kindness and respect and attention they need.”

That’s right, Silda! It’s your fault your husband strayed! Why, if you’d just let him control you, you’d have satisfied his need to direct and dominate another human being, and he wouldn’t have had to move all that money around, attracting the attention of the banks and the IRS and the US Attorney’s Office! Dammit, woman, what is wrong with you?

Look, here’s another shameful political wife who couldn’t keep her husband in her bed! Bring her out for the ritual humiliation and penance.

Dina Matos McGreevey, the estranged wife of James E. McGreevey, who resigned as the governor of New Jersey in 2004 after admitting to an extramarital homosexual affair, has been much in demand these last two days.

On a different “Today” panel on Tuesday, called “Secret Lives: Does Power Equal Promiscuity?,” Ms. Matos McGreevey argued that blaming wives for their husbands’ infidelities was “like blaming a rape victim for being victimized.”

Heyyyyyy… she’s not following the script. What’s with this not being properly shamed? Get her out of there! Get a new panel to remind wives of their duty!

Daytime television does have a way of encouraging women to blame themselves or change themselves to hold on to their men. On yet another “Today” panel, this one labeled “Refresh Your Romance,” an expert advised viewers eager to rekindle their marriages to take erotic dance classes to “unleash the inner vixen.”

That’s better. Remember, ladies, it’s your fault, and yours alone, if your husband strays and gets caught and has to resign from office.

___________
* Yes, *that* Laura Schelessinger. Of the affairs and the divorce and the nude photos and the criminal son and the mother who was found in her apartment, having been dead for two months.

65 thoughts on The sister-punishers are out in force

  1. blaming wives for their husbands’ infidelities was “like blaming a rape victim for being victimized.”

    well, it’s not like that doesn’t happen every single day.

    OT: I remember Laura Schlessinger from back in the early 80s. she used to go on local morning shows and dispense advice a la Joyce Brothers. no screaming, no judgement, just basic common sense advice. guess there wasn’t enough $$$ in that for her, eh? /OT

  2. I always hoped that Deryk would grow up to come out of the closet, marry Phyllis Schlafly’s son, adopt children and raise them as atheists, and write a best-selling memoir titled “My Mom’s Kid: How I Cut the Titanium Umbilical Cord.”

  3. Why in the name of holy crap are people still bringing Laura Schlessinger onto their TV shows to dispense her opinion on anything? Does anybody even listen to her show anymore?

  4. Why in the name of holy crap are people still bringing Laura Schlessinger onto their TV shows to dispense her opinion on anything? Does anybody even listen to her show anymore?

    For the same reason Ann Coulter and Leslie Unruh get air time…

    RATINGS.

  5. You didn’t mention “Dr.” Laura’s loud, public, much-discussed conversion to Orthodox Judaism and her quiet, let’s-not-go-there deconversion later. And before anyone objects, I personally don’t care what her religion is, but it goes to hypocrisy, your honor.

  6. Lindsay Campbell has her own rant on the “plight” of Silda Wall Spitzer up at MobLogic.

    I’ve already left my comments up disagreeing with her. Check it out, make sure to get your voices heard.

  7. They put on these proxies to spout the reactionary opinions held by huge numbers of Americans who feel put out because their ugly attitudes repel people and will eat up any validation offered by TV.

  8. Uh, was there even any evidence that Spitzer buying sex had anything at all to do with his wife’s behavior? As opposed to, I don’t know, the fact that he traveled a lot for his job and couldn’t keep his dick in his pants? I guess it’s not surprising to find wild assumptive leaps of illogic from the likes of Dr. Laura.

  9. I’ve been struck by the Today show’s approach to this issue as – Why do men cheat- which they claim is “The question Everybody’s asking.”
    It’s not the question I’m asking.
    My question is, Why would an intelligent and ambitious person do something that would predictably destroy his career?

    Of course I’m not their target demographic (married women). Does an incident like this really prompt women to start worrying about what their own husbands are doing? Or did the Today Show just assume that to be the case? I can imagine plenty of women not getting stressed about their marriage after hearing about the Spitzer news, but then getting freaked out by the non-stop- ‘if you don’t keep you husband happy, he’ll stray’, message.

  10. edited email rant I sent to a list this AM:

    Watching the governor’s press conference, many wonder,
    ‘Why does she stay with him?’

    Perhaps this extreme example of ego addiction and male privilege will
    cause much examination of the rotten state of politics in general and
    it will necessitate a close look at what progressive men and women
    have been pointing out for decades. This system is based on
    denigration of women from start and as women who crave a home
    and family must seek it thru a male patron women often marry into devils
    contracts for the required security to breed and rear children in
    safety and some level of abundance.
    The spitzers originate in current system, the family is patriarchal
    as is the social system created for all of us to live in. Women must sell
    souls for protection if they want to make home and motherhood a life.

    Often I rail in our need to create communities where people of all ages live
    and work together as Ancestors did and where young women can
    meet males of quality not thugs, and breed and rear kids with help from
    all of the community with assurance mothers and babies will be safe and
    fed clothed sheltered and women will have a LIFE in addition to
    mothering and enabling all others in commuity to take part in teaching
    toddlers ( the formative years ) honor, ethics, self respect, love of family
    and community so these babies grow up with BALANCED views
    of life and not SOULESS values.

    If these opportunities were open to young women they would leave
    the MTV system and move into communities
    where they could BELONG and feel safe and MOST would want to start
    breeding and some would want to be otherwise employed using natural skills.
    Some men would want to work with children and others want to
    work for community building , caretaking, trading with other communities.

    we all must finally see PATRIARCHY itself IS the tyranny and the
    millinea old promoting men to BELIEVE in their superority by gender
    is cause of the EGO run amuck and descent into HUBRIS.

    A matri-focal system is way to bring women back into community where
    making home is frutiful and NOT slavery.

    If this pitiful woman is reaching your own humanity in even a tiny degree
    then see her as a symbol of all that is wrong with our current system
    and how freeing women will begin that HEALING we all claim to want so badly.
    Look at this robot of a woman, does stepford wives come to mind?

    Ever read any womens fora, sites, blogs, struggles to hold together
    kids and work two or three jobs and never enough money for food, shoes,
    heat, and the vital necessities of a decent life? and ask yourself WHY
    any SANE young women would want to step into that HELL. ?

    there is more, I was on a roll and many males are on that list !

    lets hope all this public pain pulls away veils of denial and promotes
    understanding and progress.

    S.

    ~

  11. I suppose what Laura Schelessinger’s comments really mean is that her first husband was at fault when she cheated on him and that her current husband’s ex-wife was at fault for his role in the affair. That’s awfully convenient for both Dr. Laura and her husband.

  12. Pingback: Pandagon :: Cut out the stand by your man routine :: March :: 2008

  13. They put on these proxies to spout the reactionary opinions held by huge numbers of Americans who feel put out because their ugly attitudes repel people and will eat up any validation offered by TV.

    Whoa. light bulb moment. Thanks for that.

  14. Some thoughts:
    I hope Silda went right out to get tested for STDs.
    If you’re married, and your wife has made it clear that some things you’d like to do are deal-breakers for her, that doesn’t constitute a license to cheat. I can’t understand why Dr. Laura thinks husbands should violate their wives’ personal autonomy. If a lack of, say, anal, is a deal-breaker for Spitzer he should have asked for a divorce.
    We’re not entitled to demand an explanation from Silda. She has to answer the Ann Landers’ question for herself: “Are you better off with him or without him?”

  15. As a reformed cheater — no, it really wasn’t my boyfriends’ fault.

    Oh, wait, I’m a woman. I must have cheated because I was an incorrigible slut. Those virtuous men would only break a promise to their partners because their partners deserved it.

  16. As a reformed cheater — no, it really wasn’t my boyfriends’ fault.

    Oh, wait, I’m a woman. I must have cheated because I was an incorrigible slut. Those virtuous men would only break a promise to their partners if their partners deserved it.

  18. Pingback: Standing By Their Men | Popehat

  19. If Mrs. Spitzer should feel shame, it’s for not realizing — according to Cindy Adams — how much the Governor was honoring her by going to a prostitute:

    It’s like takeout food. Less work for mother . . . a man who adores a woman enough to make his family with her and wants her forever as No. 1 in his life in a drawing room or dining room might also respect and treasure her too much for what he wants in a bedroom.

  20. They were spouting that shit on the View this morning too. After everyone talking about hoe “men just need sex more” Elizabeth Hasselbeck actually said (although she specified she wasn’t talking about Silda Spitzer in this case) “I don’t get it- if you know your husband needs sex, just give it to him”. I almost threw up. Of course it’s not the husband’s fault he decided to have sex with someone other than his wife, it’s just automatically assumed that the wife is not providing satisfactory sex. Sigh.

  21. It’s so much easier to blame victims; then one can think “I’ll never happen to me; I’ll never be a victim like that.” Cf., Wendy Vitter.

  22. Another snippet of the interview:

    “When the wife does not focus in on the needs and the feelings, sexually, personally, to make him feel like a man, to make him feel like a success, to make him feel like her hero, he’s very susceptible to the charm of some other woman making him feel what he needs,” -Laura Schlessinger

    Laura, lets give men a little more credit. I know plenty of guys who don’t let a “hero complex” FORCE them to cheat. As much as we joke about it, they really do have a brain aside from that dangely thing between their legs.

  23. Elizabeth Hasselbeck actually said (although she specified she wasn’t talking about Silda Spitzer in this case) “I don’t get it- if you know your husband needs sex, just give it to him”.

    God, I hate her.

  24. “I don’t get it- if you know your husband needs sex, just give it to him”.

    I don’t get it…if your husband wants to stick his penis up your ass…just do it.

  25. I agree 100% with all the folks who are saying the blame-the-victim stuff is rubbish, but all the posters here and elsewhere seem to imply that a person has no obligation to her or his spouse for their sexual happiness at all. Is this really true ? I am a pushing-50 professional male whose job takes a large time and toll, and I am certainly not satisfying my wife to the extent she’d like. (Not sure all the posters here are aware just how tough it is to stay physically excited with the same person for 20 or 30 years…) So, while I’d be devastated if she strayed, I would understand it intellectually. Would you blame her the same way you would blame a man (as all the discussion is about so far) ? Or would you say I am failing her – and if you say that, then why is it not possible for a wife to fail her husband ?? [Some people have expressed very visceral reactions to the comment that maybe a wife (subsitute “spouse”) ought to pay some attention to her (substitute “his”) husband’s (subtitute “spouse” again) sexual needs – I really want to know what your feelings are about the reverse situation and if you are really consistent.]

  26. I’ve got thirty years in…and my husband was often away on business, particularly in the first decade +.

    Short answer? No, I do not understand it intellectually, because…when you get right down to it…sex is not a NEED. You won’t die without it, you won’t get sick, and there are plenty of ways to satisify desires in the absence of a partner.

  27. but all the posters here and elsewhere seem to imply that a person has no obligation to her or his spouse for their sexual happiness at all

    Is it time for another little pedantic moment about the difference between “infer” and “imply”? How about one about begging the question?

    There are a lot of responses to an imperfect marital sex life other than cheating.

  28. 1) Nobody, including (gasp!) “da menz,” needs sex. People may want it, sometimes want it badly, but nobody ever died from a lack of sex. So for Hasselbeck to go off about “husbands needing sex” and women having to meet such a “need” – presumably at whatever psychological cost – is bull buncombe.

    2) It seems clear to me, intuitively, that the act of getting this breathtakingly expensive sexual encounter(s) must have been part of the thrill, along with the severe illegality of it and perhaps the mocking of the very financial establishment which he once took on in court. An ordinary adulterer would simply have obtained an ordinary “goomahr” in DC (or NYC or, horrors, Albany). Spitzer is the governor of the 3rd biggest state in the country and he could have found some senior partner-level DC lobbyist, think tank executive, NYC business magnate, more than happy to become “second in priority.” No, he probably was sexually aroused while executing the bank paperwork (I know, ew…)

    3) I know why these women stand next to their husbands. It’s the ultimate leverage in the divorce settlement. Plus you get more sales out of the tell-all later, though some nasty drama at the press conference might work just as well.

  29. I agree 100% with all the folks who are saying the blame-the-victim stuff is rubbish, but all the posters here and elsewhere seem to imply that a person has no obligation to her or his spouse for their sexual happiness at all. Is this really true ?

    What do you mean by “sexual happiness”? Do I have an obligation to do anything my husband asks in bed, no matter what it is, to keep him happy? Do I have to have anal sex like Spitzer wanted? Let him pee on me? Pee on him?

    Let’s say that your wife declared that it was absolutely necessary for her sexual happiness for her to have intercourse with another man while you watch. Do you have an obligation to do it since it will make her happy?

  30. “Imperfect” absolutely! Who the hell defines what the “ideal” is, anyway?

    For example…military wives and husbands may have “imperfect” sex lives, and the reason might have jack shit to do with “quality.” And fidelity still thrives.

    Life happens, and it is “imperfect.”

  31. Bruce, way to join in with the sister-punishers: okay, maybe it’s not their fault but they’ll make bank on it later!

    I suspect the reason Spitzer didn’t simply have a mistress is discretion. One of the reasons you pay a lot of money to a prostitution service is that they’ll keep their mouths shut. I doubt that many of the women Spitzer hired had no clue who he was, but you’ll note they didn’t run to the media.

  32. You know, if you are having trouble in your sex life there are things you can do besides heading for the closest street corner. There is therapy, books and you could always take time out to reconnect with your partner. Being “bored” or not wanting to put in effort to make things better is no excuse to cheat. It’s just freaking laziness. And for God’s sake, get a freaking divorce first before you find a new partner. Not only is it more honorable, but that way only YOU are at risk for any diseases.

  33. So, there are no cheaters, men or women, who did so to find something their spouse wasn’t providing.

    Truth is a hard pill to swallow.

  34. GNOC…

    …because everyone is “entitled” to whatever they want…sexually…within the marriage…right?

    Goddamit, I WANT do-overs!

  35. So, there are no cheaters, men or women, who did so to find something their spouse wasn’t providing.

    Since we’re busily discussing Elliot Spitzer, who apparently cheated so he could have unprotected anal sex, I’m not sure where you get that idea.

    The question is How much is the spouse realistically required to provide? What is an unreasonable demand? Again, if you wife says she needs to pee on your face to be truly sexually satisfied, would you have no trouble accommodating that request?

  36. So, there are no cheaters, men or women, who did so to find something their spouse wasn’t providing.

    Truth is a hard pill to swallow.

    No one cheats because they are not receiving something they need from their marriage. That’s just an excuse. People who cheat do so because they either don’t care about their spouse in the slightest, or because they haven’t got a clue how to discuss their needs and feelings with their spouse. If your spouse truly isn’t providing something that is truly needed for happiness, the solution is not to cheat…the solution is either to work through the issue with your partner or find a new partner. Cheating is never excusable and never the other partners fault.

  37. What do you mean by “sexual happiness”? Do I have an obligation to do anything my husband asks in bed, no matter what it is, to keep him happy? Do I have to have anal sex like Spitzer wanted?

    I don’t think people have any ‘obligations’. But that cuts both ways, there’s no moral obligation for anyone to be faithful. If you aren’t keeping your partner happy and they turn to someone else, on what basis can you blame them for looking out for their own happiness? That’s what’s up with this wronged wife crap, it’s basically just an attempt slut shame the adulterous husband for not meeting his ‘obligations’.

    You can’t have it both ways: how can you say your partner has an obligation to be faithful (i.e. do something for your happiness) while rejecting any obligation to keep your partner happy on your part? It’s a double standard.

  38. there’s no moral obligation for anyone to be faithful.

    You cannot be serious. You cannot possibly be equating the moral obligation of the promise of fidelity made publically to the desire that your spouse submit to sexual acts that are repugnant/humiliating/painful/immoral, etc…to them?

    What the hell?

  39. Actually there is a moral obligation to be faithful… or at least truthful about sleeping around. In fact it almost should be a legal obligation. What I am talking about is sexually transmitted diseases. If you’re cheating on your spouse and they have no idea, you are putting them and any unborn children you might have at risk. No one, male or female, should be sleeping around in a marriage unless the partner knows about it and can take preventative measures.

  40. “So, while I’d be devastated if she strayed, I would understand it intellectually. Would you blame her the same way you would blame a man (as all the discussion is about so far) ?”

    Last time I checked, it was legal for women to initiate divorce. So, yeah.

    “Or would you say I am failing her – and if you say that, then why is it not possible for a wife to fail her husband ??”

    You’re setting up something of a false dichotomy. It’s not “If you can fail your spouse, then it’s okay for them to cheat on you” or “You can never fail your spouse in this fashion, ergo cheating is wrong.”

    Yes, you can fail your spouse sexually. It generally involves being an abusive or borderline-abusive asshole, but it can be done. But that doesn’t somehow punt you into bizarro world where it’s okay for your spouse to cheat on you, expose you to god knows what in the way of STDs, and have society blame you for their behavior. Your spouse is an adult and presumably capable of enough rational thought to know the difference between the ethical and unethical courses of action and enough self-control to be able to choose the ethical course if they really want to.

    Presumably if you want to and do your best to meet your wife’s sexual needs, are not trying to curtail her sexuality in an abusive way, and have an open dialogue with her about what sexual expectations you both have and the likelihood of these expectations being met, you’re not failing her–you’re making an honest effort, and she’s making a continuing, fully-informed decision to work with what you can give.

    But this is all before we get into the giant bag of problems that come with not being able to refuse to engage in a sex act (for whatever reason) without your partner deciding that they’re now entitled to blow the retirement fund on unprotected sex with strangers without your knowledge. If you can’t say no without having to worry about what’s essentially a backhanded sort of retaliation, well, it’s not exactly full consent, is it?

  42. “But that cuts both ways, there’s no moral obligation for anyone to be faithful.”

    I think you’re confusing “no moral obligation for anyone to be faithful” with “no moral obligation for anyone to remain in a relationship.”

    You absolutely have a moral obligation to either remain faithful or fully disclose your lack of intent to remain faithful if your partner expects monogamy. You don’t have a moral obligation to remain in a relationship that you no longer want to be a part of.

  43. Bruce Honey, it is possible that women love their husbands, or at the very least, want their children to love their fathers…and I don’t presume to speak for Myth…

  44. But that cuts both ways, there’s no moral obligation for anyone to be faithful.

    ”

    Bullshit. If you have promised to be faithful, keeping that promise is a moral obligation. If things change and you want to renegotiate the relationship, don’t sneak around, have the guts to stand up and say that you want an open marriage. Oh, except, most people who cheat don’t really want an open marriage. They want multiple partners AND a faithful spouse.

  45. ahunt,
    I never said entitled to anything.
    But, when two people get married, at least the traditional married, you have a desire to please, satisfy, your partner. If that is neglected, then problems occur.

    This is not rocket science. And it goes both ways. No sexism here, just reality.

  46. GMOC…my NEED for self respect and personal comfort did not vanish upon my marriage…and my desire to please my husband did not suddenly expand to include sexual acts I find repugnant.

  47. Where did I say that? Where did Dr. Laura say that? You have a serious lack of attention to details. Read the entire interview and not just your convenient snip.

  48. GNOC, how is any of what you’re saying relevant to the Spitzer case — which is the focus of the article linked in the original post — at all?

    Where is the evidence that Spitzer cheated on his wife because she didn’t provide him with sex? Everything written about their relationship so far suggests that the only reason their sex life suffered was because he was traveling for work.

    On top of that, as people have pointed out, Spitzer was paying extra specifically so that he could bareback someone. Which is why the whole subject of “should you have to go along with any sexual act your partner wants? if you don’t, does that mean they’re entitled to cheat on you?” came up in the first place. If anyone’s ignoring details, it’s you, since you haven’t managed to say a peep about that.

    Whether or not there are people out there whose spouses are completely withholding any kind of sex from them, and whether or not those people are justified in seeking extramarital sex instead of or in addition to other options like counseling, divorce, etc… is fairly irrelevant to the actual subject here.

  49. It was dealing with the Dr. Laura comment. Spitzer is an idiot whatever his wife did. I don’t think Dr. Laura is excusing anyone for cheating, man or woman.
    Going along with your partner is not license to do anything. Going along means going along. If Spitzer wants something his wife won’t do, he “SHOULD” want to go along with her, IF he loves her. That is what I am saying and what Dr. Laura is saying.

  50. what Dr. Laura is saying.

    Please feel free to find us any cite of the good Dr Laura counseling men to treat their wives as heros, lest the wives stray to more appreciative pastures.

  51. Right, that’s totally what Dr. Laura is saying — he should want to go along with her if he loves her.

    No wait a second, that’s not what she said at all. All she basically said was:

    a) men need women to soothe their poor egos because in the beginning, all men need their mommies to give them love. (Note: this is incredibly insulting to men.)

    b) women have to fulfill this need. If they don’t, the men will be “wounded” and “starving.”

    c) Elliot Spitzer was apparently wounded and starving in this manner — there is no evidence for this whatsoever, so Dr. Laura must just be assuming that this is true of all men who cheat? Meanwhile, it seems like Spitzer was getting his jollies because he was out of town a lot and wanted to fuck a girl up the ass without a condom — and there are plenty of other motivations for screwing around that don’t necessarily involve an emotional wound, aren’t there? Come on.

    Here’s everything she said on the subject:

    Schlessinger: “When the wife does not focus in on the needs and the feelings, sexually, personally, to make him feel like a man, to make him feel like a success, to make him feel like her hero, he’s very susceptible to the charm of some other woman making him feel what he needs. And these days, women don’t spend a lot of time thinking about how they can give their men what they need.”

    Viera: “But… are you saying the women should feel guilty that they somehow drove the man to cheat?”

    Schlessinger: “You know what? The cheating was his decision to repair what’s damaged and to feed himself where he’s starving. But, yes, I hold women responsible for tossing out perfectly good men by not treating them with the love and kindness and respect and attention they need.”

    Gardere: “But two wrongs don’t make a right…”

    (later on)

    Schlessinger: “We have the ability to rise above human nature, and we do make these choices. But… in relationships, when people starve out the person they’re supposed to feed, their soul, their psyche, you have to have some expectation of assuming some responsibility for how they’re left feeling.”

    Fisher: “I refuse to believe that this adultery is the wife’s fault. I refuse.”

    Schlessinger: “We’re not talking about fault!”

    Later on she said: “The point is, what he’s done is wrong. The point is, what she’s done is wrong.”

    Basically, her attitude is that she blames both the husband and the wife for the husband’s infidelity. Even without any evidence that the husband’s motivation is what she claims it is. If that’s not at least PARTIALLY excusing cheating, I don’t know what is.

  52. There’s video here in case anyone wants it.

    Also notably, the anthropologist on the left side went off on a wild tangent about how Spitzer’s FACIAL FEATURES indicate he’s more likely to cheat, because he has a high level of testosterone (uh no, that only indicates testosterone level at puberty, really) and as we all know, testosterone is a magical brain-controlling chemical that literally makes people do things, reducing their autonomy to 50% or less of usual levels!

  53. When the wife does not focus in on the needs and the feelings, sexually, personally, to make him feel like a man, to make him feel like a success, to make him feel like her hero, he’s very susceptible to the charm of some other woman making him feel what he needs

    I said this in another forum, but I really doubt he was paying a prostitute large amounts of money to make him feel like “a success” or “her hero.” (In fact apparently that wasn’t the case at all.)

    a man who adores a woman enough to make his family with her and wants her forever as No. 1 in his life in a drawing room or dining room might also respect and treasure her too much for what he wants in a bedroom.

    Right, because sex is for dirty girls and not women you actually respect!

    I don’t think there is no such thing as a situation where someone isn’t sexually satisfied because their partner isn’t putting enough into it. (And that person could be a man or a woman.) But it’s still not an excuse for cheating and fooling someone in a monogamous relationship.

    In other words, I agree with Vail: If someone’s that unsatisfied then they can leave, and I know people who have, though it usually wasn’t only about sex. I actually don’t want to be the judge of whether what they wanted was reasonable or unreasonable, because situations like that are really complex, and sometimes people get hurt by decent well-meaning people because things have changed and relationships end. But that doesn’t mean cheating is OK.

  54. You can’t have it both ways: how can you say your partner has an obligation to be faithful (i.e. do something for your happiness) while rejecting any obligation to keep your partner happy on your part? It’s a double standard.

    Only if my partner is not expecting me to be faithful. If he doesn’t care who I sleep with and I demand monogamy, you might have a point. But if he’s insisting on monogamy from me while sleeping around, it’s not my double standard.

  55. james, I know you thought it would sound really clever to throw in terms like slut-shaming, but you shouldn’t use terms if you don’t know what they mean.

    Bruce, hoping they nail the bastards is far different than assuming greed as a motivation.

  56. Umm… any good sex therapist would explain that problems in the bedroom are just the tip of the iceberg. People don’t cheat because their sex life sucks. They cheat because they aren’t communicating, they’re not in love anymore, they’re unhappy at work/home/etc.

    Perpetuating the myth that men cheat because their wives weren’t providing (or vice versa) only excuses the abuser and doesn’t seek to solve the problem by creating and cultivating a healthy relationship.

    And if there is some sort of fetish, there are LOADS of ways to work around and up to a fetish. The important part, again, is communication and understanding. Maybe your fetish won’t be fulfilled to its extent, but you can always indulge in fantasy (in this case, compromise is key).

    If you have a fetish for expensive prostitutes and won’t settle for less, don’t f*ing get married, damnit.

    Again…

    Cheating: IT’S NOT ABOUT THE SEX.

  58. Anyone have a link saying how we know which acts Spitzer bought, or tried to buy? I googled “spitzer anal” with no result except a few jokes plus speculation from Heidi Fleiss.

  59. Zadig, #5, thanks for the link! I had no idea! In these parts, the Bob Jones University people still respectfully refer to her as “an Orthodox Jew”–which gave her additional authority in fundie circles. And I’ve been suspicious of that statement ever since I saw her on live TV on a Friday night … you certainly won’t see Michael Medved on live TV on Friday night!

    Fascinating how she just quietly disassociated, after all the self-righteous noise over the conversion. Again, thanks so much for the link!

  60. Re: Cindy Adams: Just great! That’s the marriage every woman dreams of – one where her husband respects her so much that he’s not interested in asking anything of her in the bedroom. It’s funny how she said that directly following a comment about how sex is the most overwhelming drive ever, apparently for all human beings – but for some reason not for any of those human beings who are actually wives; wives are happy to be relieved of the chore.

    Not sure all the posters here are aware just how tough it is to stay physically excited with the same person for 20 or 30 years…)

    I’ll be married twenty years this April.

    So, while I’d be devastated if she strayed, I would understand it intellectually.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “understand it intellectually.” Of course I “understand intellectually” why people stray, in terms of seeing what they get out of it. I just think it’s sleazy.

    Would you blame her the same way you would blame a man (as all the discussion is about so far) ?

    Absolutely. And I deserve to be blamed if I do it to my husband. Regardless of what he is or isn’t doing with me in bed.

    how can you say your partner has an obligation to be faithful (i.e. do something for your happiness) while rejecting any obligation to keep your partner happy on your part?

    Because we all have an obligation to be truthful and keep our promises. Because, if your marriage isn’t working for you, you at least have a moral obligation to be open and above board about what you intend to do about the fact that it isn’t working for you, so that your partner, in turn, can have all the information she needs to decide that, say, the fact that you’re off barebacking multiple prostitutes is a dealbreaker for her.

    One person wants some sexual act that the other one doesn’t want to partake of? Open negotiation? One person goes off and gets that sex act from other people without telling the other he’s not being faithful as agreed? Not so much. It’s not that hard a moral distinction to make.

  61. Umm… any good sex therapist would explain that problems in the bedroom are just the tip of the iceberg. People don’t cheat because their sex life sucks. They cheat because they aren’t communicating, they’re not in love anymore, they’re unhappy at work/home/etc.

    Look, I disagree. I posted something similar on Feministing but I can’t resist doing it again – I love my partner, he’s great in bed, we enjoy each other’s company… Our sex life has lapsed terribly since we have too many animals and work too many hours but for the first few years we had a lot of fantastic sex.

    I want to have sex with other people because most of what turns me on is having sex with new people – or in new ways, and my partner is not the least bit kinky. I cheated when I was overseas, and he forgave me. I will not do it again. But that does not mean I do not want to have sex with other people! (And it’s hard; I feel terrible for being attracted to other people and don’t know how to “fix” our sex life)

    Obviously long-term cheating shows a complete lack of respect for your partner and/or cowardice on your part.

  62. I want to have sex with other people because most of what turns me on is having sex with new people – or in new ways, and my partner is not the least bit kinky. I cheated when I was overseas, and he forgave me. I will not do it again. But that does not mean I do not want to have sex with other people! (And it’s hard; I feel terrible for being attracted to other people and don’t know how to “fix” our sex life)

    Dana,

    I’m basically the same way. I am fully capable of a monogamous relationship, but I really don’t believe I am monogamous. BUT, instead of cheating, I’m just open and honest with my partners, as they are with me. I really don’t understand the thought-process behind being involved with someone that you can’t be yourself with. So much suffering could be avoided if people would just be honest with themselves and each other.

  63. (And it’s hard; I feel terrible for being attracted to other people and don’t know how to “fix” our sex life)

    You need to have an open relationship, which unfortunately means you probably can’t stay with your current partner, because it sounds like he wants a monogamous relationship.

    Sucks, but life is like that sometimes, and why make him miserable over something you can’t change about yourself? Find someone who doesn’t mind having an open relationship.

  64. I want to have sex with other people because most of what turns me on is having sex with new people – or in new ways, and my partner is not the least bit kinky.

    Well, I’ll allow that there may be some exceptions, as in your case (though I wonder if you could get your partner to be kinkier if you would still feel that way), but for the most part I believe cheating is still as a result of relationship problems, not sex. Poor communication in the bedroom still counts as poor communication.

  65. If you start feeling attracted to other people and you are in a long term committed relationship you value, I’d run, not walk to couples therapy. If your partner won’t go, that says volumes about that person’s commitment versus yours (or ability to engage in self-examination/criticism/change). If there is something wrong in the bedroom, I guarantee there is something wrong outside it that is at least excacerbating the situation. You may never make it perfect, but you can almost always make it better IF both people want to. Many of the posters above have valid points about one’s obligations in a committed relationship. It is never ok to cheat, but with couples who report only having sex biannually, what do they think is likely to happen eventually? One person will someday meet someone who really turns them on and by then the relationship will have been bad for a long time and thus much harder to fix; it will look a lot easier to just have the affair. The oldest trick in the book is to treat someone like dirt, kill their desire for you, then blame them for being cold. A good couples theapist will smoke this out, and that’s why most abusive people won’t go.

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