“Savagery” December 3, 2007 Jill Headline writers choose their words deliberately. And when they choose the word “savage,” they are trying to paint a very specific picture for you — and can guess the colors they’re using (hint: white is not on the palette).
But isn’t that what it was? Is “barbarism” preferable? I realize that those engaged in the savagry in this case happen to be brown. And the author of the headline may even be white (or not). And I realize that white people used to call cultures whose members were [not white] “savages” and justified committing all sorts of injustices because the victims were “savages.'” All of that is understandable. But what that article describes is straight up savagry. I don’t think calling a spade a spade is racist.
Leo, The term “savage” has a lot of racist baggage from its use in colonial and post-colonial discourse in Western societies. I believe that was one of Jill’s points.
I realize that was one of Jill’s points and I also realize I misspelled it. Oops. But anyways, I see Jill’s point to an extent. It makes sense. I’ll go out on a limb, however, and say that word is used in other ways and has other meanings. And I’m pretty sure that the main use of the word in 2007 accurately describes what went on outside of Paris. Insinuating that having such a headline is racist is unnecessary. Especially what happened was so disturbing.
But isn’t that what it was? Sounded like violence to me. I’m not sure why “France stunned by rioters’ violence” would be a bad headline. Savagery is what happened to James Byrd, IMO. Or to stay French, what happened to the Princesse de Lamballe (trigger warnings on both, BTW).
I also want to say how amusing I find it that the people who brought us Paris 1968 are now shocked and horrified that their young people are rebelling. I guess Americans aren’t the only ones with short memories.
Sounded like violence to me. I’m not sure why “France stunned by rioters’ violence” would be a bad headline. I think that they want to convey the degree of violence. In which case, I think brutality would probably work too.
You only need to read the comments to understand that “savagery” was a code word for the xenophobic and racist. One of the comments tried to use the movie “The Battle of Algiers” as a justification for military repression. These are real geniuses. It is scary, whether they use religion, color, or culture as a reason that these “savages” can never assimilate and are only there to destroy white/christian/western society. I mean, it doesn’t occur to any of them that the exploitation of the third world by the first drives poor people to want to move to where they see people get to eat 3 meals a day and have nice houses. Then they get there and find out that if you’re not white/christian/western, you don’t get to play in our sandbox. You can clean it out, but this sand is ours. They leave poverty and oppression to go to… well… slightly less poverty and oppression. But at least there are a lot of pretty, well dressed white people to look at, admire, and aspire to be as we are just the models of civilization and compassion. As long as we have a gun pointing at them.
The term “savage” has a lot of racist baggage from its use in colonial and post-colonial discourse in Western societies. This is true, but the Times article was not, by any stretch of the imagination, the worst article or commentary piece on the riots. The worst, in my opinion, are those from far right bloggers and newspaper columnists that attempt to paint riots about race relations and social exclusion as Islamist activities. Debbie Schlussel, frequent Fox news guest and owner of one of the most popular political blogs, referred to the riots as “punk jihad” and the rioters (not all of whom are even Muslim to begin with) as “unrequited 72 virgins yearning romeos.” Other right-wing opinion-shapers stressed over and over again their annoyance with the “mainstream media” for not including in every piece on the violence the fact that the rioters came from Muslim and non-white backgrounds. What really disturbs me is that Schlussel, Steyn, Malkin, the “Little Green Footballs” crowd, and the rest know very well that the riots in France have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with discrimination. However, they see in the images of cars aflame and teenagers with dark complexions hurling stones at riot police a ripe opportunity to further their theories of a “clash of civilizations,” a European takeover by Muslims (the “Eurabia” theory), and the unassimilability of non-white, non-Christian peoples into majority white, irreligious and Christian European societies. At the heart of these theories (which do differ slightly, and thus require different methods of de-bunking) is simple white supremacism, and profitable kind of white supremacism, too. The bigoted blogging of Michelle Malkin and Debbie Schlussel and the in-print Islamophobic, Europhobic, eugenicist, and sometimes even genocide-justifying screeds of Mark Steyn generate cash. They know they’re full of BS, but they also understand that there is an international market for their kind of bigotry. This makes them morally far worse than the thousands of idiots who believe them wholeheartedly. I used to think the best ting to do with people like Malkin, Steyn, etc was to ignore them, to not dignify their prejudice-inciting ramblings with an answer. (I also felt like this was the best way to handle Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazis, coincidentally.) But now I realize that purveyors of hatred must be confronted head-on, in the public sphere, and in ways that not only disprove their theories, but show them to be the insidious manipulators they are. Unfortunately, broadcast media outlets (in the US at least) often do not allow this to happen.
You don’t have to go back 40 years to see the genesis of some of these riots. Matthieu Kassovits, director of 1995’s La Haine (Hate), had some interesting thoughts on the phenomenon of rioting in the DVD’s audio commentary. He especially warned about Sarkozy (who had not yet been elected at the time of recording), saying that he used to go through the suburban projects and taunt young people. That aside, it is fair to say the victim in the article received a “savage” beating, which I assume is still an acceptable adjective.
No, seriously, people are actually going to defend the use of the word savage to describe immigrant populations? For fuck’s sake.
His bruised and bloodied face signalled a worrying new level of barbarity in the mainly Muslim banlieues Seriously Leo- can you not see how “savage” and “new level of barbarity” go hand in hand? Since when is violent riots anything but new? Absolutely disgusting…
While I certainly don’t advocate random attacks or approve of violence in general, I feel as if the conversation about the riots have been remarkably one-dimensional. It’s all focused on the “disgusting” behavior of the rioters, head-shaking at them for stepping out of line, and responses like those described by Miss Sarajevo. But it hasn’t been long since the last wave of riots struck Paris–and there seems to be no change in ADDRESSING why the rioters still feel a need to turn violent. I haven’t even seen an (article about it (although, to be fair, I haven’t been following it extra carefully). I’m reminded of the classic book “Poor People’s Movements,” by Piven and Cloward, which argues that because political/social systems tend to be unresponsive to the demands of the poor (and other groups that for one reason or another lack power), the only way movements of poor people are able to gain traction is if they work outside of and disrupt the dominant system. Relevantly, the authors spend a lot of page space discussing how people discredit and disparage the movements for not going through the normal (unresponsive) channels.
What really disturbs me is that Schlussel, Steyn, Malkin, the “Little Green Footballs” crowd, and the rest know very well that the riots in France have nothing to do with religion and everything to do with discrimination. However, they see in the images of cars aflame and teenagers with dark complexions hurling stones at riot police a ripe opportunity to further their theories of a “clash of civilizations,” a European takeover by Muslims (the “Eurabia” theory), and the unassimilability of non-white, non-Christian peoples into majority white, irreligious and Christian European societies. Racism, panic about “race suicide” and the impending takeover by the MUSLIM HORDES wanting to establish the NEW CALIPHATE are a feature, not a bug, with these people.
. Relevantly, the authors spend a lot of page space discussing how people discredit and disparage the movements for not going through the normal (unresponsive) channels. I think this is absolutely what is continuing to happen around the riots in Paris. Of course brutally beating a random police officer is not the most humane or effective expression of frustration with a racist police force. But the young men who beat Mr. Illy were right “somebody should pay” when two 15 year old boys are left to die by the police that crashed into them. But nobody’s going to, because that’s what happens anywhere in the West when young men of color are killed by law enforcement. The beating of random police officers is, sadly, probably the closest those boys are going to get justice. And this will probably happen again the next time an act of police violence kills a young person of color in the suburbs of Paris. I can only hope that there are some people in Villiers-le-Bel trying to stop destruction going on in their community and redirect these young men’s anger towards more productive targets. I’ll go out on a limb, however, and say that word is used in other ways and has other meanings. And I’m pretty sure that the main use of the word in 2007 accurately describes what went on outside of Paris I can count on one hand the times I”ve heard the word “savage” used to describe anything but the actions of young men of color.
But it hasn’t been long since the last wave of riots struck Paris–and there seems to be no change in ADDRESSING why the rioters still feel a need to turn violent. I haven’t even seen an (article about it (although, to be fair, I haven’t been following it extra carefully). That’s because a lot of people think they already know the answer: they’re Muslim, therefore they’re violent, therefore they riot. QED, no need to look for any other reasons. I got into a pretty major flame war with an idiot at Washington Monthly who only knew that (some of) the rioters were Muslim, and that was all he needed to know to be sure that they had no reason for what they were doing.
I’d like to thank everyone for talking about how the cause of these problems is discrimination against muslims. I know this is a feminist blog, and that’s why I’m particularly grateful for how much stress is being placed on this. It’s vitally important we aren’t sidetracked from laying the blame for what is happening squarely at the feet of white/christian/western society. I’m particularly thankful no-one has brought up the position of women in this discussion. I’m sure many of the less charitable and intellectually rigorous commentators on non-feminists blogs would have done this, but it’s good to see commentators here are above all that and know who the real enemy is. It would be very unfortunate if someone suggested the poverty and lack of opportunity these people find themselves in has little to do with discrimination against muslims and everything to do with discrimination against women. But fortunately that hasn’t happened, and we can only hope it doesn’t. It really would be a tragedy if someone attempts to rerail this discussion by suggesting that when you take a western educated daughter, marry her off to an illiterate goatherd from some backward tribal region, prevent her from working, and knock her up five or six times, that it isn’t much of a surprise when the wife, the husband, and all the kids end up with no hope and in desperate poverty. Hopefully this can be avoided, as we all know the real cause of these problems is discrimination against muslims, and has nothing to do with the fact that it’s very difficult to function with these sort of backward cultural mores in modern Europe. Thank you for your support.
Shorter James: THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING TO KILL US ALL O MY GOD CAN’T YOU PEOPLE SEE THAT!!?!?!?!? Please change your Depends and come back when you can look at actual facts, sweetie-pie.
Shorter Mnemosyne: I TOTALLY misunderstood what James actually said (which is that the underlying problem is discrimination by white Europeans against Muslims), so I’m simply going to scream childish insults at him.
Dreidel – right, cause when the blog post is totally about that very fact, people tend to write in all sarcastic like he did, “thanking” us for not getting “derailed” (or “rerailed” if you’re an illiterate – do trains jump from track to track where he’s from?) And of course the “real problem” has to by misogyny. Not because James necessarily gives a damn about women, but because conservatives like to rail against misogyny in Muslim communities to attack people who dare criticize mistreatment of Muslims. (which is not to say that some Muslim immigrant communities aren’t misogynystic, but that has nothing to do with being upset about a police hit-and-run)
I think I’m missing something with the “spade” stuff. Is there a second meaning to the word? The saying, perhaps?
The worst, in my opinion, are those from far right bloggers and newspaper columnists that attempt to paint riots about race relations and social exclusion as Islamist activities. One problem is that foreign papers tend to only cover “urban youth” rioting, and then stick those stories into preordained frames where decadent France is once again aflame and “oh my, it’s ’cause of the Muslims and universal healthcare, what’d I tell ya?” Granted, they’ll also cover other movements when they’re large enough, such as last year’s student strikes, but run-of-the-mill demonstrations and riots go largely ignored, so foreigners don’t realize that these events aren’t so unique or exceptional in France. (Also, unlike American riots, people rarely die in French riots.) For example, farmers and fishermen have regularly rioted, the most infamous case being a riot in the city of Rennes in 1994, during which the parliament building was burned down. Fishermen, in the spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship so dear to that profession, used their flare guns to shoot at police vehicles. Where were the reports of “savagery” and “barbarity”? Hell, when I’m in France, I live in a region that is home to the CAV (Comité d’Action Viticole), a radical groupuscule of disgruntled wine growers who occasionally blow up, or attempt to blow up (they’re not exactly pros), local hypermarchés and other stores that pressure them into lowering their prices. When they’re in large enough numbers, they attack police patrols, shotguns and all. Where are Matthew Campbell and the Times; where are the sensationalist headlines? Besides, French people fighting over wine is the sort of thing that British papers love. But Muslims are more terrifying. He especially warned about Sarkozy (who had not yet been elected at the time of recording), saying that he used to go through the suburban projects and taunt young people. Sarkozy, before reinventing himself as the hardboiled savior of France, was one of the meanest and pettiest two-bit thugs in mainstream French politics, widely derided as a tête à claques (someone whose expression alone makes you want to hit them). Ideologically, he’s very far to the right, bordering on eugenic: he has repeatedly claimed, more or less overtly, that criminal behavior derives from genetics, and that trying to explain the causes of criminality is in fact trying to excuse it (he was at it again during his post-riot interview). When he was Minister of the Interior, he funded a project aimed at detecting budding criminal behavior in infants. Now, it wasn’t carried out because of the outcry, but his henchmen had been planning to monitor nurseries, identify the supposed future criminals, and keep track of them as they grew up. How could it have gone wrong? A two-year old sticking out his tongue will later graduate to sticking up banks — everyone knows that.
greenmouse – the saying is fine, in and of itself. it’s questionable here because “spade” is also a somewhat antiquated racial slur. (I think it derives from “black as the ace of spades” but I could be wrong about that.)
For example, farmers and fishermen have regularly rioted, the most infamous case being a riot in the city of Rennes in 1994, during which the parliament building was burned down. Fishermen, in the spirit of innovation and entrepreneurship so dear to that profession, used their flare guns to shoot at police vehicles. Where were the reports of “savagery” and “barbarity”? Hell, when I’m in France, I live in a region that is home to the CAV (Comité d’Action Viticole), a radical groupuscule of disgruntled wine growers who occasionally blow up, or attempt to blow up (they’re not exactly pros), local hypermarchés and other stores that pressure them into lowering their prices. When they’re in large enough numbers, they attack police patrols, shotguns and all. Where are Matthew Campbell and the Times; where are the sensationalist headlines? Besides, French people fighting over wine is the sort of thing that British papers love. But Muslims are more terrifying. Cizungu, Je t’aime. That made my night. And I must use “groupuscule” more. Ohh, it’s a lovely word!
Greenmouse: This classic SNL skit with Richard Pryor might help with the vocabulary question (plus it’s hysterically funny). It was broadcast on late-night TV, so it’s not quite safe for work.
What’s worse is the hateful comments found underneath the article: “France should pass legislation to remove the citizenship of these thugs and deport them to the country of origin of their parents. World-wide, developed nations need to legislate Swiss-like citizenship rules to allow them to remove such elements from civilized society. Why should France or any other country allow itself to be pulled down?” WTF?
Harlemjd, it wasn’t very antiquated when someone left the playing card, the ace of spade, under my windshield wiper a few years ago.
Re: James—I’ll keep an eye out for those tribal goatherds when I go to France tomorrow. I had no idea they were such a plague there. Wouldn’t want to end up to accidentally end up bearing their unFrench children.
Orodemniades – shit, I’m sorry to hear that. I didn’t meant to imply that it was totally out of use, just not so common among young people compared to other slurs, and maybe that was why greenmouse didn’t recognize it. I’ve never heard or seen it used except by people much older than me, but that may be just how it is where I live.
Harlemjd, it was surprise to me, too! To be honest, I kind of associate it more with war stories, y’know, of the ‘we’re the flying deuces’ type thing than racism, although I know that’s the original meaning. At least I knew the person who did it, a local drug dealer who hung out in the parking lot and always gave me the evil eye. I assume he’s either moved or in jail, now. Just desserts!