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What Will Hereby Be Known As “The Jensen Experience,” Not To Be Confused With the Jimi Hendrix Experience

Derrick Jensen is a phenomenal writer. My friend Josh introduced me to him last year and I immediately fell headlong into his work. His authorship is the ultimate in rhetoric, using multiple methods of appealing to different audiences (something like W.E.B. Dubois’ Souls of Black Folk), displaying an incredible attention to detail and subjectivity. I am a huge fan not only of his work’s content but its style. Jensen’s talent lies in his ability to engage, enrage, and incite the compassion of the reader to be moved to produce a particular result. One of his degrees is in creative writing and it shows in his non-fiction, having developed a way to draw you in and push you back, as is needed to get his intended results: pro-feminist environmentalist activists ready to act for revolution. Jensen is quite radical and, at times, endorses violence in order to reduce the negative effects that humanity has on the planet. More on this in a bit.

As previously mentioned, I went with friends to see Derrick Jensen speak at Antioch this weekend. I didn’t “drive 3 1/2 hours to be entertained and then go bar hopping” (and yes, I do find this characterization disparaging, thankyouverymuch). I wanted a pleasant night out of town and to attend an interesting talk by one of my ideological idols with like-minded folks.

I got something a bit different, to my disappointment. In my eyes, Jensen slayed himself.

Jensen’s presentation was standard, one of two major speeches he gives relating directly to his works, that I have listened to at least three times apiece. When one is writing books and travelling it is difficult to come up with new material for audiences; however, the speech he gave us was a patent copy of the things I have seen and heard before, everything down to timing, jokes, dramatic pauses and repetitive phrases. I expected a bit of new stuff, my assumption that when one travels around the country for over a year giving the same two speeches that one might come up with a new bit here and there. But that wasn’t the case. Fine, okay, understandable, forgivable. Unfortunately, being the poor-sighted driver on the trip, I had developed a headache, and sitting in the warm, dark auditorium made me doze for a bit, right in front of Jensen. Oops.

I finally perked up when the Q&A started. Only four or so questions were asked in part because Jensen had gone far over his time slot. Two members or the audience went on their own tangents, one woman responding to another audience member’s question about how to foster liberalism in preschool students (I have a big, big problem with this), and the other a student doing absolutely no justice to Antioch’s infamous Sexual Offense Prevention Policy (proper analysis here). Jensen’s responses felt canned, probably because he likely gets these questions all the time.

Another student then asked him a question that required a bit more. What happens, she asked, if I, for example, blow up a sewage treatment plant? Sure, I save some salmon, but the people who come out fine are those that can afford to outsource water. She continued her question, asking about the effects of such actions on economic class, ones in which the rich are always better off than the poor despite the intended outcome of radical action.

This directly relates to Jensen’s work and how he disparages the rich for making victims of the world’s Others. But Jensen chose not to take her question seriously. He used an example of knocking down a cellular tower and painted a rather silly picture of her inquiry that didn’t do the initial question any justice. She interrupted him as he made fun of her premise, attempting to clarify her question, and he told her to stop. Stop? No, fuck that. He didn’t tell her to stop, he yelled at her as she interrupted his charade, as he made light of a pertinent question and had the gall to silence her. He then told her that “it was obvious that they had very different jobs to do.”

As in, he would write books for revolution and she wouldn’t bomb sewage treatment plants.

As in, he was recruiting an army for something which he has little guts to do on his own, all the while insisting that he would do “whatever it takes” to “save the salmon,” i.e. writing safely at his computer.

He then, very cleanly, moved along to the next question. Rather patriarchal for someone so anti-patriarchy.

One of Jensen’s images is repeated throughout his books and talks – he talks about the salmon of the Northwest, how they used to fill the rivers enough that residents miles away could hear their fins slapping against the water as they swam upstream to mate. This image illustrates an example of the devastation that urban sprawl, waste, and ecological disinterest has done to the environment, an example frequently used in his books and speeches.

I had a question of my own, and intended to speak to Jensen briefly about my question while he signed the books I brought with me. Because it was obvious that there was no lodging in town, because I began to anticipate the looming drive home, and because of my growing headache, I decided to see whether he would sign my books without us having to go to the reception. He did, but not without trying to rush us along. I told him I had a brief question I wanted him to address and he complied, albeit impatiently.

Daniel Quinn is an author of a similar vein, not quite as talented as Jensen and his authorship, but certainly a comparable author in content and intention. Quinn wrote Ishmael, My Ishmael, and Beyond Civilization, the last a book that details in short passages how one might stage their own revolution. Quinn’s suggestions are no less radical, but they are slower and non-violent, a method that I am already trying. Quinn suggests that we find alternative methods of living, eschewing grocery stores for our own home-grown food, leaving corporate stores behind for the local alternatives, finding means for subsistence that don’t involve wage slavery, doing what we can to, as Jensen advocates, “dismantle globally, rebuild locally.” (Read Quinn on your own to do it some justice.)

I was thinking of this poem by Nikki Giovanni:

Revolutionary Dreams

I used to dream militant dreams
of taking over america to show
these white folks
how it should be done

I used to dream radical dreams
of blowing everyone away
with my perceptive powers
of correct analysis

I even used to think I’d be the one
to stop the riot and
negotiate the peace

then I awoke and dug
that if I dreamed natural
dreams of being a natural
woman doing what a woman
does when she’s natural
I would have a revolution.

Giovanni illustrates the kind of revolution that not only Quinn, but early works of Jensen illustrates. A one person revolution is a revolution.

I took serious issue with his repetition of “fuck the rich” “fuck the rich” when one of his books lies completely in the premise that holocausts and hatred lie in the dismissal of individual subjectivity. Hypocritical, no? What kind of revolution is hypocritical at its very core? Apparently the rich are not subjective folks deserving of the same consideration that Jensen gives ferns, porn subjects, and sedimentary rock.

And, for that matter, Quinn’s revolution is one that doesn’t kill people, one that doesn’t kill children. Jensen, during his talk, said he didn’t want to even think about that premise – killing children who have a tertiary role in the destuction of the planet. But if you advocate blowing up public spaces, you have to think about the literal destruction of children, among other dismissable players in the dismantling of the ecosystem.

And that is exactly what I wanted to ask Jensen about, the role of subjective consideration that Jensen advocates when we address the unpopular. The answer of the evening was “fuck the unpopular, long live abstraction.”

I’m sure he’s heard the question before, but he didn’t even give me time to finish. When I brought up Quinn’s method and began to contrast it to his, Jensen silenced me. “But that won’t save the salmon.” He gave me a pointed look, as though this answered my query. But I, personally, was thinking of the little one in bed at his father’s house and what would happen if someone near my home decided to ruin our chances at our conscious survival. And hey, buddy, I’m with you.

And then, after interrupting me, he asked me to continue. What cajones. But I was done.

So, fine. If Jensen wanted to blow me off because he’s heard the timid ones like me question whether or not killing objectified bourgeois humans for the sake of subjectified salmons is an effective way of honoring the planet and all its inhabitants, so be it. But god forbid he acknowledge that I may not ask a new question, but I am a new audience. And, up until this point, an avid supporter. To have seen him silence an honest question by an audience member, and then to have him silence me before my question was even asked, both questions which entail significant consideration for worldwide consequence that doesn’t lie in the safe, safe realm of the abstract was too much for me.

After the talk my two travelmates and I went to dinner, all the while discussing the talk. Anne was pleased with the outcome and L hated all but the first half. When I aired my grievances with them, Anne pointed out that my answers were in his books. Well, of course. I read the books. More than once. But why give speeches and host question-and-answer sessions if one is only to answer honest questions with severely limited abstractions regurgitated from his books? Perhaps I was silly to assume that he may have more to say on these topics, you know, the implication in asking for clarification.

And I’m not even going to touch on the absurdity of sitting in an auditorium of an expensive private college with a bunch of other privileged folks discussing what a great favor we would do the rest of the oblivious world (to be reductive) by blowing it up.

This experience reminded me of the disappointment I felt in finding that bell hooks, despite her critical and authorial talent, has a martyrdom complex (read her memoirs).

Jensen is a talented writer who has had a significant impact on my view of the world, but I did find him to be a pretentious, arrogant poseur who is, as I said before, perfectly content to recruit a revolutionary army while suffering none of the consequences of his advocacy. Awfully convenient, isn’t it? Especially when he melodramatically declares that he will do “whatever it takes,” as he repeatedly stated, to “save the salmon,” whereas the rest of the subjective world becomes collateral damage while Jensen muses over the coolness of finally releasing a hardback book.

I’m ready for revolution, but not the kind advocated by a pusillanimous, if talented, author.


24 thoughts on What Will Hereby Be Known As “The Jensen Experience,” Not To Be Confused With the Jimi Hendrix Experience

  1. “It is easy to be a holy man on top of a mountain.”
    –Larry Darrell in W. Somerset Maugham’s The Razor’s Edge.

    You keep looking Lauren. You’ll find it.

  2. I don’t know thing one about this guy or his work, but I’m guessing he was raised, as a child, by a run of salmon. And he owns stock in a company that makes chamberpots.

  3. It seems like this is one of the big pitfalls of building a career out of essentially a single position. As time goes by, your reputation and livelihood become more and more dependent upon that position, and alternate points of view become more threatening and therefore to be squashed.

  4. You need to go to a remote place to become enlightened. Just consider the stories of Buddha, Moses, Mohammed and Jesus.
    What I am really saying is that you need to ignore *everything* and *everyone* and reach your own conclusions devoid of any presumptions you may have.
    To my mind radicalists and revolutionaries (plus egalitarians and socialists) are generally following the wrong path. Jensen seems to be in the radical conservationalist camp. You used the term “Rhetoric” in your article Lauren, well that about summises it. Rhetoric is not reality, and many of the issues he seems to write about are not really related – other than in his own fantasy world! A world from which he makes a lot of money, if we were to “fuck the rich”, I hope he would be second in line after the lawyers, when this revolution comes.

  5. Thanks for giving us the details.

    At first I was going to say, “It sounds like Jensen should just be writing books and should *not* be doing speaking engagements.” Then I realized that’s a little much, but at least “I should just read Jensen’s books (if I care to) and not worry about going to hear any of his speaking engagements.” Good to know: thanks for the heads up.

    The bit about interrupting you mid-question, fully equipped with a minimizing presumption about the content and depth of your question, well that’s just irksome beyond my tollerance levels. Sorry to hear about the whole thing, and hope your next investment of time pans out better.

  6. Many times those we look up to disappoint us, we find that they too are just as hypocritical and faulty as anyone else is. I have found that, although I may admire someone, I should not follow whole heartedly, I need to follow my own way and not attempt to adhere my points of view to theirs are think that we are truly like minded because of what they have written. I have known many who write about certain things yet really do not believe in it, or think we should live the life style but will not live it themselves.

    The fewer times I make certain people into icons the fewer times I am disappointed.
    Blue

  7. Sooooo…..lemme get this straight. “Save the salmon”, but fuck the human beings? Sorry, but he’s already lost me there; I’m one of those pesky people that insists that human beings are part of the environment, too. I would have lost it after he disrespected that woman with the question about water.

    This is why more U.S. folk aren’t in tune with environmentalism. So many of the people who represent environmental thought publically are so extreme in what they preach, and it’s so far removed from everyday life that most folks here say “fuck it”. I mean, it’s all well and good for him to posture about blowing up sewage treatment plants; he gets to go back to a hotel with hot water for his shower, and cold running water he can drink without getting life-threatening diarreah. He doesn’t have to walk down to the nearest creek with heavy urns, then bring it back to the house, go out and gather wood for the fire he would need to boil the water to reduce the chances of parasites or bacteria……

    Which brings me to the next point, which is: who used to do that type of work? Who was in charge of the water-gathering, the boiling, the firewood-gathering, the soap-making, the cleaning, etc.? Women, that’s who. And quite frankly, I’m gotdamn glad I don’t have to live the way my great-grandmother did!

    He sounds like he needs to get off his fucking high horse about “living off the land”, because it’s not so easy to do. Ask some organic farmers some time. They bust their asses, and if they’re lucky, they break even. Those that manage to survive usually do so because they have a spouse who is out working in town, earning enough to help keep the farm afloat, and more importantly earning benefits like a pension and health insurance. Oh, and those few that earn a really good income? They are lucky enough to live nearby those “putrid” rich people that he apparently likes to disparage, and they are paid by those “fucking” rich people for their high-end produce, plus they supply the high-end restaurants that those “fucking” rich people visit.

    I’ll have to dig through my old copies of The Sun magazine; there was a fairly recent article in there about one of those “back to the land” couples who lived off the land, sure…..but had a nice trust fund or something to do it off of.

  8. As I typed my response to your post yesterday, I knew you would find it disrespectful. I was, however, merely responding to what you had written. “….without a bar open past 11pm and no visible hotel accommodations…… wanting back out of the house so my Friday night wouldn’t be a total waste.” Written communication has an infinite amount of restraints, much to my chagrin as well as yours. I apologize for that. I do, however, feel I should respond to your thoughtful critique because I believe you placed a lot of unqualified assumptions on him that might have been withdrawn had you attended the reception.

    When you, as well as 12 other people, approached Jensen after the talk, you should have noticed that he was being short with everyone, including me. This is because they were closing the auditorium. Even as you spoke to him, people were on stage rolling up cords, putting away mics, and breaking down tables. When I got to him he shook my hand, smiled and said “Kyle, are you going to the reception?” I replied yes and he told me we would be able to talk at more length there. If you attended the reception, you would have found Derrick sitting on the floor systematically answering each question and signing each book until just before midnight. When they closed down the reception hall, Jensen continued to talk with us outside.

    The girl who asked the question in the back, who interrupted Derrick during his answer, and who was then asked to “stop,” was being inappropriate and disrespectful. He was in the middle of answering her question, and for the benefit of the audience, was first laying down some fundamental principals necessary to directly address her concern. She attended the reception and was able to discuss her question with Derrick for about 10 minutes.

    I’ve downloaded his talks and heard them many times as well, and just as you, I was a bit disappointed that it was more or less the same. I’ve also been on his listserv for over a year and know that he is really busy. His new book, “Endgame,” is 1,400 pages long and will be published in two volumes beginning in the fall (If I was simply interested in selling books, I’d probably make them a little shorter. Also, his speaking fee is the less than any of the prominent writers I know – he clearly has something to say). If you feel he didn’t adequately answer your question, I encourage you to email him. derrick@derrickjensen.org – He’ll respond to you within a day.

  9. I don’t think Jensen did the girl any favors by making fun of her question, as he did, in front of an audience. While I still value his books, I was completely turned off by the talk.

  10. This is a brilliant example of why, for me, feminism is so important. So, so many lefty men value abstractions over people. But it’s the people who create the abstractions, and the reasons the abstractions matter is because of what they do (and don’t do) for people (and other living things). Whenever some revolutionary tells me we need to move beyond the individual or whatever, I know that he–and it usually is a he–is not on my side.

  11. What’s all this about salmon? What about sturgeon? Time was, back in the early days, sturgeon almost blocked the Columbia River to passage of boats (ships?). Sturgeon is good eating. No bones! Sometimes this “save the salmon” gets a little tiresome!

  12. I’ve only read A Language Older Than Words from Jensen, and I’ve only read Ishmael from Quinn. Admittedly, that’s not a great basis for discussing either’s merits as an author or wordsmith.

    That said, as I’ve been finding myself trying desperately to articulate to people, I find Quinn’s approach a ton more reasonable in many ways. For starters (illusory though it might be), I felt like in Quinn’s book, the reader was truly the one left to come up with the answers. It’s a direct derivitave of the “show, don’t tell” approach. When reading Jensen’s book, I rather felt like witness to a diatribe, not unlike what I would find in an evangelical church. He really presented an attitude to me of “you’re either with me, or fuck you.”

    That’s precisely the attitude I really have a problem with. Quinn’s approach sort of draws in some of the lines, but allows the reader to color in detail as he sees fit. In so doing, I felt much more inspired by Quinn’s work to change aspects of my life. Jensen left me feeling beaten.

    From a Car Talk puzzler: You have a car that gets 10 miles to the gallon, and your ecology-conscious partner has a super hybrid that gets 100 miles to the gallon. Your partner has found that the same car company has just released a super-duper hybrid that gets 200 miles to the gallon. You consult your mechanic friend, and he tells you he can tune up your car’s engine and properly inflate your tires, so your car will get 11 miles to the gallon.

    The “puzzler” was — if you both drive the same mileage average in a year, which method is actually better at improving household fuel economy?

    (The answer is fixing your car, not getting the new hybrid. Assume each car drives 200 miles in a month, and figure from there)

    So what bearing does that tangent have on the issue? Simply to say that if you’re already recycling [some arbitrary percentage] of your garbage and regularly shopping at locally-owned stores, you might be better off spending your time helping — that is to say, showing others how to be more environmentally conscious, even if they only end up recycling [half your arbitrary percentage] or only shopping at locally stores occasionally instead of never.

    Did that make any sense? *sigh* I’m sick 🙂

  13. And in conclusion to the above comment — showing your friends and neighbors how to live a better life might damn well end up more productive than blowing up a sewage treatment plant.

    And it will stink less.

  14. There is a whole lot of projection going on in these comments.

    As for Quinn, he’s probably one of the most didactic writers in existence: his whole revolution is based on the Taker/Leaver binary and the teacher, Ishmael, is a dissemenator of philosophy. A guru, in effect. You know, of the patriarchal I-have-the-knowledge-and-you-need-it type. Kinda.

    And, bitchphd, nothing against you, but your comment is total projection. If you had read Derrick’s work, you would be hard-pressed to say that he devalues the personal, tangible realm. Besides, I have a dick (and am a man, consequently), and my values/goals/perceptions don’t fit into the nice, neat little hegemonic box you’ve constructed for non-females. Please. I’m guessing you’re the militant second wave type? Guess what? That’s so 30 years ago.

    La Labu, if you expect the same decent white American folks who brought you the destruction of the passenger pigeons as well as the enslavement of entire countries–would that it had stopped by now!–to do a 180 and voluntarily change their way of living, I have something to sell you. It’s called peak oil, and it’s gonna change the way we all see the world in about 20 years. You might want to start up your organic garden, ’cause there won’t be any petrochemicals left to fertilize it.

    There were definitely different ways of being at that lecture the other night. I don’t think Derrick was at his prime, but he had been up for 14 hours at that point and was still on pacific time. Oh, and the art dept. was practically shooing him to the reception area.

    Re: the girl who he cut off, I was privilege to a 10-minute diatribe of hers later that evening. Obnoxious and intrusive. Many people, including myself, had been waiting around till the reception was over to chat with Derrick. At one point, I was waiting for my friend after Derrick and co. took off to go home, and they came back because they saw I hadn’t spoken my mind. (I couldn’t walk with them because I had to hang out and wait for a friend.)

    This really is not a fair discussion.

  15. I’m sorry you had this experience at Jensen’s talk, Lauren. As someone who was introduced to Jensen by you, I know how enthused you must’ve been and how subsequently disappointed.

    That said, I do want to add that the two times I’ve met Jensen were very enjoyable; he couldn’t have been more congenial and chatty at the book signing table. I’ve also been on the DJ listserv for over a year and his replies to others and his commentary have never left me cold.

    I really hope that this entry hasn’t turned anyone off from reading his books and considering the importance of what he has to say.

  16. I’m not discounting how Derrick Jensen landed with you, I don’t blame you for being pissed about how the evening went and I’m sorry about your cat. However I am rather angry that you ripped into someone about one evening and posting it for thousands of people to read it would be a great deal more constructive to at the very least e-mail (in this case) him prior to posting the blog entry.

  17. Having only had the time to read a bit of Jensen’s work and this being the first time that i have seen him speak: I will not be reading anymore of his work or going to see him speak again.
    The hesitance to see him speak again comes from the fact that i was raised by a couple of toastmasters (public speakers) and Jensen isn’t that great of a public speaker (and i’m not talking about sitting on the table without shoes, etc.) and yes, i know that he is an author not a speaker, blah blah blah. he’s still bad at it and i’m still a snob about it.
    that said:

    i have sat in on many many conversatios with people that adore jensen and his work, i have had his views, politics, rhetoric, etc. explained to me for hours on end. Through all of that i was really interested in Jensen and seeing him speak (and if time permitted this summer, actually finishing at least one of his books that lay around my apartment half read.)

    I was truly dissapointed. I just didn’t think that Jensen had much to really back up his plans/ideas. I also was disturbed by the fact that the “upper class” were completely discounted as human beings “save the salmon fuck the upper class!” that kind of talk gives me the chills.

    one problem of mine among many (including his definitions of culture, society, etc.) is the complete and total hypocracy- humans life vs. animal life / lower class life vs. upper class life / i’m getting paid alot to sit here and ponder the ills of the world vs. working your ass off to change the world around you.

    Down to my favorite: those that can afford to buy his books, attend his talks, attend the universities he speaks at, fund his revolution: they are upper middle to upper class, the same classes that are ruining his salmon supply

    in short those are just examples of a couple of things that did not sit well with me. they’re not even the big ones. I am in line with alot of the ideas that jensen talks about-but his definition and execution of those ideas i couldn’t disagree with more.

    that said, ^5 to jensen for getting out there and writing and being passionate enough about his beliefs to speak to audiences about them, not many can do that (though i highly recommend a toasmasters meeting or two) 😉

  18. Jeremy, those thousands of people who read this blog are free to disagree with me and write their own rebuttals.

    I still believe that his books are valuable, but Jensen’s suggestions remain far too abstract for those who wish to enact pragmatic and non-violent methods for global change. I found his hatred toward the “rich” quite unsettling considering the great lengths he went to to stress the importance of honoring individual subjectivity in “Make Believe.” And as Lori mentioned, those of us who buy his books and attend his talks are comparatively rich on the global spectrum, so, I suppose, fuck us, as Jensen would say.

  19. As I typed my response to your post yesterday, I knew you would find it disrespectful. I was, however, merely responding to what you had written. “….without a bar open past 11pm and no visible hotel accommodations…… wanting back out of the house so my Friday night wouldn’t be a total waste.” Written communication has an infinite amount of restraints, much to my chagrin as well as yours. I apologize for that.

    be careful not to actually apologize there, Kyle… it’s all just due to the failings of communication, huh? the fact that you come off as arrogant in print as Jensen does in person, i mean…?

    anyways, Ms. Lauren, feel the chagrin. feel it! and moreover…

    you should have noticed that he was being short with everyone, including me. This is because they were closing the auditorium. Even as you spoke to him, people were on stage rolling up cords, putting away mics, and breaking down tables. When I got to him he shook my hand, smiled and said “Kyle, are you going to the reception?” I replied yes and he told me we would be able to talk at more length there. If you attended the reception, you would have found Derrick sitting on the floor systematically answering each question and signing each book until just before midnight. When they closed down the reception hall, Jensen continued to talk with us outside.

    you see, Ms. Lauren, another thing you did wrong. you “should have noticed” that Mr. Jensen was trying to leave. and if you were good buddies with him like Kyle you could have enjoyed a firm handshake & some personal first-name action… but you didn’t even come to the reception where they sat on the floor! jeez. it really does seem like it’s all your fault. luckily, folks like Kyle are here to set you straight.

    but let’s not forget his roomie: Josh…. hi Josh! thanks for letting all of us know that we’re just projecting & that this really isn’t a fair discussion. after all, Mr. Jensen had been up the night before! so unfair! and that girl who got cut off? like Kyle pointed out, she was asking for it. at least that was fair, right? i mean, who wants to listen to some girl, right? at least she wasn’t one of those o-so-very-tired second-wave feminist types like apparently BitchPhD is…

    what’s up with this ‘tude, Jenseneers? do you really think you’re going to turn folks on to Jensen’s writing by telling us we’re just all wrong & don’t get it? maybe y’all just need to lay down some fundamental principles so we can catch up to your speed, huh?

    yeah… that approach should win ya some.

  20. what’s up with this ‘tude, Jenseneers? do you really think you’re going to turn folks on to Jensen’s writing by telling us we’re just all wrong & don’t get it? maybe y’all just need to lay down some fundamental principles so we can catch up to your speed, huh?

    You are inarticulate and antagonistic. Read jensen, or don’t read jensen. I don’t care. I’m far more inclined to respond to well-thought-out responses like lori’s: she has some good points.

    Lori, from where I set, there are some allowances to be made when listening to Jensen. There’s a danger in modern discourse: when you talk about demographics, someone gets left out or hurt. I do not think Jensen would take down a damn if he knew it would hurt a particular kid, despite his rhetoric.

    It needs to be said: pacifism is pathology at a certain point. People are going to get hurt whether civilization comes crashing down of its own accord or whether it’s dismantled. This is a statement of belief with which each person can agree or disagree. Therefore, those dismantling civilization, however they go about it, can’t guarantee no one gets hurt.

    That doesn’t mean they can guarantee they won’t do anything significant. There’s another feature of modernity: the dilemma with no appealing answer. Do we keep living this way, destroying the world while claiming to love future generations, or do we fucking do something?

    So, do something. Write books. Have a garden. Participate in your community. Blow up dams. Jensen qualifies by that metric, even if his rhetoric is…incomplete. Hell, Lauren qualifies by this metric, even though I couldn’t disagree with her assessment of Jensen more strongly.

    People are primed for gurus here. We don’t trust them, and I say good. But that’s a far cry from dismissing someone because he’s not already a bodhisattva. So Jensen said some unreasonable shit. Build on it, don’t just do that lazy, first-world, trendy cynicism thing. (And Lori, I’m not talking about you.)

  21. And as Lori mentioned, those of us who buy his books and attend his talks are comparatively rich on the global spectrum, so, I suppose, fuck us, as Jensen would say.

    I’ve never heard of a talk Jensen did that wasn’t free to the public. Many are also available for download, making his talks accessible to nearly everybody, once again, at no charge. Oh, wait. The Global-3 conference in Cincinnati in April, where Jensen will speak, is a potluck gathering. Those that come are expected to bring a plate of food. Those fuckers! Furthermore, several copies of his books can be found at both libraries in our town, a town that is not progressive by any stretch of the imagination. Jensen also offers an online reading club where subscribers can view works recently completed, works in progress, and essays and articles that aren’t available anywhere else. I don’t know of any writer that makes their work this accessible to people who can’t afford it otherwise.

    I also find it interesting that the most militant of rebuttals to my comments are largely from people who openly admit that they haven’t even read one of his books.

    Jam, I too enjoy the art of sarcasm, but if I were to validate your comments with any kind of response, I would also be destroying any shred of open, fair, respectful discussion, if it ever existed on this thread in the first place. I didn’t come here looking for a fight – fucking grow up. I’m done.

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