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What Was That About Gluttony, Again?

You know the drill. Someone’s fat, and someone else comes to the conclusion that the fat person got that way by stuffing his or her face with cheesecake or donuts or what have you.

Not so fast.

News Flash: Soda Is Fattening

Add a report from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition to the growing list of evidence that sugary soft drinks are adding pounds to kids. The report, a meta-analysis of others’ scientific research, says one extra can of soda a day can translate into 15 pounds a year. The report concludes: “Although more research is needed, sufficient evidence exists for public health strategies to discourage consumption of sugary drinks as part of a healthy lifestyle.”

And, as certain as night follows day, the sugar industry begs to differ.

Doesn’t take much to get fat if one spreads the calories out. There are only about 140 calories in a can of sugared soda, and most people can down one or two without giving a thought to the calories, and without any sensation of satiety.

I’ve written before about the rise of vending machines in schools beginning in the 80s as a means of making up for budget cuts. Some schools even have fast-food franchises and fountain sodas in their cafeterias, and exclusive deals with various junk food companies to supply schools with sodas, sugary drinks and snacks — in exchange for advertising space and a chance to hook consumers when they’re young (though some schools have pulled these deals or forced the removal of all non-diet and sweetened drinks). Now USA Today reports that there’s a kid-focused radio station that will be played on school buses in 11 states, with advertising aimed at children.

Bus Radio will broadcast age-appropriate ads and music by pop singers such as Kelly Clarkson, Yanoff says. Content varies by riders’ ages. He would not name participating schools or advertisers but says products will cover entertainment, apparel, electronics, education and health.

Opponents of advertising to children object to the programming.

“This is a marketing ploy” aimed at “sedating” kids, says Susan Linn, a psychologist with the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood, a Boston-based group.

“Advertisers love marketing in school, because children are a captive audience. This extends that to the school bus,” says Linn. “Kids are already bombarded with advertising.” She says ads are linked to childhood obesity, underage drinking, violence and other problems.

Mighty cagey about who those advertisers are going to be, hmm? If I were a parent of a child whose kid rode one of these buses, I’d sure as hell like to know what kind of advertising the school was planning on pumping at my kid while trapped on a school bus (not to mention what kind of sanitized, sappy music they’re going to be hearing).

For all the weeping and wailing about the “obesity epidemic,” particularly among kids, and what it means, and what the kids and their parents are doing wrong, there’s been a lack of focus on certain glaring structural problems, most of which are related to money. To their credit, many school systems are working to eliminate sugary sodas from their vending machines and cafeterias (though keeping juice and artificially sweetened diet drinks around is no bargain nutritionally), and some, like New York City, are getting rid of whole milk. Beverages are one of those things that can help you pack on pounds without realizing it because you don’t really think of the calories as you’re consuming them. To wit:

If you thought you were being nutritionally virtuous by stopping at Starbucks instead of McDonald’s, the Center for Science in the Public Interest says, “Wrong!’’

A venti — or 20-ounce — Caffè Mocha with whipped cream has 490 calories, equivalent to a Quarter Pounder with cheese. And a 24-ounce Java Chip Frappuccino with whipped cream has 650 calories, not to mention almost an entire day’s allowance of saturated fat.

According to the center, a nutritional advocacy group, the Frappuccino is equivalent in calories to a McDonald’s coffee plus 11 of their creamers and 29 packets of sugar.

But there remain other problems related to budget cuts at schools, such as the elimination of a lot of recess time and gym classes. I, personally, hated gym, but I got to take it. Some school systems bus everyone to school, no matter how close they live. Some schools don’t have much in the way of space for kids to run around in.

And of course, there’s the problem of availability of nutritious food where the students live. If their families live in inner-city neighborhoods, they may not be able to obtain fresh food because there are no stores there selling it. If their families depend on WIC to supplement their groceries, until recently they had to eat a lot of milk and cheese.

Finally, there’s the little matter of corporate interests. The sugar industry has an interest in denying that sugary drinks are fattening. The soda industry has an interest in getting their products into school early so that the kids build brand loyalty while they’re young. The advertisers of Bus Radio — whoever they may be — have an interest in getting access to consumers while they’re young and while they’re a captive audience.


54 thoughts on What Was That About Gluttony, Again?

  1. It not even sugar anymore. In the last decade or so, sugar has been being replaced by high fructose corn syrup. HFCS is highly processed, and isn’t handled by your body in the same way at all. It’s in almost everything these days; I’m even having trouble finding bread that doesn’t have HFCS in the list of ingredients. Soda is a huge offender. I don’t let my kids drink soda at all anymore (OK, at an occasional party).

    Advertising to kids in another whole topic. Advertisers hire child psychologists to teach kids to manipulate their parents. Their aim is to tear families apart in order to sell product. I don’t even have words.

  2. Is this regular soda or diet soda? The other thing they don’t mention is that aspertame—a common ingrediant in sodas—is an appetite stimulant.

  3. Like L Cougar said, HFCS is in so many things, even things you think would be good food choices. I went to buy whole-wheat bread. Many of them had HFCS as one of the top five ingredients. It took me 10 minutes of scrutinizing labels to find one without HFCS in the top five.

  4. I was never allowed to drink much soda as a kid, and so I never really developed the taste for it that I think a lot of people have. I love a bottle of Coke on a really hot day, but other than that I almost never drink it. However, if it had been available for purchase in my elementary school, I almost certainly would have drank quite a bit more of it.

    One of my pet peeves, though, is people who drink diet soda to fill up and save calories. Soda is bad for you for a whole slew of reasons, not just because it’s fattening. Drink all the diet soda you want, but don’t try and act like it’s a healthy choice.

  5. My parents didn’t keep soda in the house, either. I rarely have it in mine. I prefer unsweetened iced tea – I have one of those iced tea makers and brew loose tea in it (I love Harney & Sons teas).

  6. Like several others here, I never had pop/soda around the house as a child. (Didn’t miss it, either)

    These days, I keep club soda or tonic water around in the summer, and just add a bit of lemon or cranberry juice to it. It’s refreshing the odd time I decide I want something fizzy.

  7. When I saw the title and the first couple of sentences, I thought this post was going to be about set points and genetic predisposition and the fact that fat people eat on average only a tiny amount more calories than thin people. (From Wikipedia:”An obese 40 year old who carries 100 lb of adipose tissue has only consumed about 25 more calories per day than he has burned on average – or the equivalent of an apple every three days”

    Yes, soda is high in calories, but it is certainly not the only or the dominant factor. I’m overweight according to the BMI charts. I have never consumed a whole soda in my life. I have maybe had a few sips that add up to one soda over my 28 years. My husband drinks multiple cans/bottles of Dr. Pepper every day and is close to underweight. Yes, this is anecdote, not data, but we need to stop assuming that just because somebody is fat it means they’re making poor choices in what they consume.

  8. Yes, this is anecdote, not data, but we need to stop assuming that just because somebody is fat it means they’re making poor choices in what they consume.

    You misunderstand the post. My point is both to show that not only does it not take much to put on a great deal of weight over time, but also to show that the “obesity crisis” ramped up at the same time that schools started making sodas and snacks available to kids as a way of counteracting budget cuts (which also forced them to offer fewer gym classes and athletic programs). So that the “obesity crisis” is a structural problem, not a problem of individual morality.

  9. Vending machines were never a problem for me. I never had any money *lol*

    OT (sort of) According to the BMI rates back then… (anyone else notice that those went down in the last 10 years or so… used to be at 5’2″, 130 was healthy, now it’s 120… and apparently 150lbs is slight obese… what a crock!) I was overweight verging on obese. *shakes head* I was 5’2″ and fluctuating between 140-150 lbs. I thought I was fine.

    Also, my dad is and always has been a Dr. Pepper addict. Now his docs want him to cut back.. it’s not a pretty sight.

  10. And of course, there’s the problem of availability of nutritious food where the students live. If their families live in inner-city neighborhoods, they may not be able to obtain fresh food because there are no stores there selling it.

    I agree with this regarding poor people. But how does this explain the increasing obesity among the middle and upper classes? I live in a solidly middle class neighborhood and have several neighbors who are clearly obese (not a few pounds overweight, but close to or over three hundred pounds). We have 3 grocery stores within 8 blocks that all have a very good selection of fresh food, including fruits and vegetables.

    Some school systems bus everyone to school, no matter how close they live.

    Yeah, I’ve noticed this too. Why can’t kids walk a few blocks to school anymore?

  11. I apologize if this is arrogant, but how the hell can anyone NOT realize how bad for you pop (note regionalism) is? Much less the Starbucks fare – it’s not basically a milkshake, it IS a milkshake!

    Also, the article is talking about 12 oz cans of soda – the vending machines in my high school sold 20 oz bottles. The math doesn’t really work like this, but that’s *25* extra pounds from soda.

    Finally, advertising to a captive audience should be illegal. Especially if it’s kids.

  12. But how does this explain the increasing obesity among the middle and upper classes?

    I don’t know how it is where you live, but here the middle classes definitely have the budget cuts and soda machine thing going on. Upper classes have leisure time to burn it off.

    Plus, see Chicklet’s comment above about the ubiquity of HFCS. Check your own labels.

    Why can’t kids walk a few blocks to school anymore?

    Safety is generally cited, though a lot of the safety problem is created by parents driving their kids to school.

  13. Safety is generally cited, though a lot of the safety problem is created by parents driving their kids to school.

    Agreed. I’ve seen some truly frightening driving in front of my kid’s schools by parents picking up or dropping off their kids. It’s astounding.

  14. I don’t pretend to know what causes obesity, but I think one thing that contributes to bad eating habits, clear across the class spectrum, is the increasing time crunch that a lot of people face. Upper and middle-class people, as well as everyone else, are working longer hours and spending more time commuting, and it cuts into cooking and shopping time. The result is that people eat out a lot more or rely on take-out, which tends not to be very good for you. Also, people eat more when they eat out than they do at home. And the time crunch also cuts into people’s exercise time. If you get home at 5:15, you might take a walk or do some gardening or spend an hour shooting hoops with your kids. If you get home at 7:15, you’re probably not going to do that.

    Finally, I think that part of the reason that people drink so much soda and coffee drinks is that they’re not getting enough sleep and they’re tired, so they crave the caffein. And that has to do with the burdens on people’s time, too.

  15. This new “study” bugs me because I’m probably the most physically fit of my friends and I drink soda every day.

    First of all, I don’t see how an extra can of soda a day can translate to 15 pounds of gained weight in a single year. Is this study suggesting that by drinking a soda at lunch every day I’ll have gained 60 pounds by 2010? Frankly, that’s laughable.

    Calories are calories, people. You can’t blame any one product for the obesity of a nation. Like with most things, it’s about moderation. A can of soda with lunch is acceptable when your daily diet is otherwise balanced.

    It’s important to teach our children that lesson rather than to shield them from all things sugary only to see them pack on the pounds when you aren’t around to monitor them. Thoughts?

  16. First of all, I don’t see how an extra can of soda a day can translate to 15 pounds of gained weight in a single year. Is this study suggesting that by drinking a soda at lunch every day I’ll have gained 60 pounds by 2010? Frankly, that’s laughable.

    The key word is “extra.” You could be eating an otherwise balanced diet and the calories in a soda (or in about three spoonfuls of food a day) could put you over the threshold. And, yes, it adds up imperceptibly.

  17. I bet you a zillion dollars that I wouldn’t gain 15 pounds if I drank an extra soda a day for a year. (I’d probably lose a tooth or something, though). I’m certain that my body doesn’t actually take every available calorie out of everything I eat, and if it did, I bet the increased energy would cause me to unconciously increase my activity.

    I don’t know where I was going with that, but soda is gross. (When I was a kid, the lunchroom options were milk, skim milk, and chocolate milk, and the servings were small enough that I doubt the chocolate flavoring did us much harm.) Am I the only one who thinks that carbonation is actually kind of painful in the mouth?

  18. Some school systems bus everyone to school, no matter how close they live.

    I grew up in a somewhat rural area and we lived less than half a mile from the grade school. I walked every day to and from school from kindergarten until 6th grade when I moved up to the junior high in town unless it was pouring rain. My cousin lives two houses away from the one I grew up in and apparently it is not allowed for her kids to walk to the same school. Parents have to pick them up and drop them off or they ride the bus. To a stop that’s less than half a mile away from the school.

    Agreed. I’ve seen some truly frightening driving in front of my kid’s schools by parents picking up or dropping off their kids. It’s astounding.

    It is amazing. I now live across the street from an elementary school. Since I work only two blocks away, I get to see the picking up and dropping off almost daily. It is completely insane.

    As to the pop issue, we always had a lot of it around growing up because my dad is completely addicted to coke. But for some reason, I never developed a taste for it. I’ve always preferred ice water or mint tea. Lucky for me, the husband doesn’t really like it either, so we generally don’t keep it around unless we have company and while when we do have it, we’ll let the kids have a small bit, we don’t act like it’s a big deal and they think of it like a sometimes treat, just like any other kind of candy. I’m really a bit worried about when the oldest starts school next year and it’s always around.

  19. Am I the only one who thinks that carbonation is actually kind of painful in the mouth?

    Nope. Me too. I have been told that this attitude is quite common among toddlers, but most people grow out of it by the time they’re three or so. I guess I’m just stunted.

    On the other hand, I could drink those delicious Starbucks caramel apple cider drinks all day long, and I’m sure they’re not good for you. I am saved, in that instance, by not having money to burn on hot caramel apple ciders.

  20. The key word is “extra.” You could be eating an otherwise balanced diet and the calories in a soda (or in about three spoonfuls of food a day) could put you over the threshold. And, yes, it adds up imperceptibly.

    I’m aware that the keyword is “extra.” And, yes, if I drank two sodas instead of one soda every day at lunch, I would not gain 15 pounds by next fall! Would you?

    It’s irresponsible to make such a wild claim. If it’s not soda that will make someone gain weight, it will be something else. The key lies in balance and moderation in all foods, healthy or otherwise.

  21. And, yes, if I drank two sodas instead of one soda every day at lunch, I would not gain 15 pounds by next fall! Would you?

    If I didn’t compensate for the extra calories somehow, I fully expect I would.

    As for the irresponsibility of the claim, why don’t you take it up with the people who did the study?

  22. As for the irresponsibility of the claim, why don’t you take it up with the people who did the study?

    I meant that the study was irresponsible, not you! 🙂

  23. My question to you is, what is it you find irresponsible or unbelievable about this study? The fact that it’s soda, or the concept of about 150 extra calories translating to 15 pounds in a year?

    If it’s the latter, what do you find so unbelievable about it? That such a small amount can turn into a significant gain?

  24. I don’t want to generalize from my experience, but this is pretty much how it works for me. When a new food-routine is introduced, but nothing else changes, I gain weight. I hate sodas, so I haven’t done it with them, but it’s happened with donuts, bagels, mochas, pastries, day-old pastries, muffins, vending-machine snacks, cookies, pasta, and candy. A few hundred extra calories per day. A few extra pounds over a couple months. I own my metabolism, but this doesn’t sound too strained a scenario.

  25. It is far too simple a concept, in my opinion. An extra can of soda would be fine for some people and inappropriate for others. Given that a glass of orange juice has just as many calories as a can of soda, it’s important to monitor your consumption habits overall rather than focus on one thing.

  26. Zuzu, btw, I am leaving work now, so I won’t be able to respond to your comments right away! But I’ve enjoyed our little exchange and am enjoying the blog (I’m new to it!).

  27. It is far too simple a concept, in my opinion. An extra can of soda would be fine for some people and inappropriate for others. Given that a glass of orange juice has just as many calories as a can of soda, it’s important to monitor your consumption habits overall rather than focus on one thing.

    Look, everyone can drink all the soda they please, weight gain be damned.

    I don’t think that these researchers would argue that this basic principle–weight gain is frequently not a matter of “gluttony” but of incremental, normal changes in diet–cannot be generalized to other small addenda. A glass of orange juice is healthier than a can of soda, but it is an addition to your daily food intake.

  28. And fruit juice gives you all the sugar from the fruit, but none of the fiber, and many many fruit juices are sweetened with the dreaded HFCS, so it’s often not *much* healthier than soda. I don’t buy the superiority there.

    I think it’s kind of weird how even though the post clearly brought this up in the context of the gluttony myth, it’s veering seriously into discussions of the morality of food choices. And I’m not excluding myself from that (see the above paragraph).

  29. If the logic here is that people gain weight from sodas because they’re “empty calories”, it’s also applicable to the incredibly calorie-rich mochas and other coffee drinks. I’ve read some of those things have more calories than a big mac.
    In my first year of college, I did drink a soda almost every day and chewed gum as an appetite suppressant, because I didn’t have time to eat between classes or space to sit and eat. However, because I wasn’t eating very much solid food either, I lost 5 or 10 pounds.

    Sally – I used to love the sugary taste of sodas as a little kid, but I was terrified by the carbonation. Can’t remember when I grew out of it.

  30. I think it’s kind of weird how even though the post clearly brought this up in the context of the gluttony myth, it’s veering seriously into discussions of the morality of food choices. And I’m not excluding myself from that (see the above paragraph).

    That’s what I was getting from TBD’s disbelief that small amounts of soda or other caloric sources could make you gain significant amounts of weight over time.

  31. And a slight side note, from the “Fat is bad” files:
    This is from a NYTimes story this week about a psychiatrist who was killed by a patient in his office. The article revolves around whether it is feasible/ok to try and force patients to take medication if their risk of violent behavior is high. Regardless of your position on that issue, this was in the article:
    So-called antipsychotic drugs effectively blunt symptoms of psychosis and tend to reduce the risk of violent outbursts, psychiatrists say. But the medications are mentally dulling and often cause weight gain, among other side effects, and many patients either stop taking them or refuse them altogether.

    Because causing weight gain is so awful, it’s better to risk killing someone, I guess.

  32. I had an underweight mother-in-law whose doctor prescribed that she dring a small, wasp=waited bottle of Coke every day to gain weight. It worked.

    So if you are guzzling 12 ounce cans, be aware that half that can put 5 pounds on you in a month.

  33. I notice that TBD’s disbelief that a small change can add up over time was followed so hotly by calls for “moderation” (#23) and “monitor[ing] consumption habits” (#28), with the implication being that people who are overweight are not moderate and are not monitoring their consumption habits. The whole point of the post was that by and large people aren’t overweight because they are more immoderate or paying less attention to their food intake than their thinner counterparts.

  34. Car, I’m not sure that’s what the NYTimes article meant. I took it to be saying that some people choose to go off of antipsychotics because they gain weight or because their senses are dulled, and that’s a big deal for a lot of people. Most people, when going off of antipyschotics, believe themselves to be stable and ok — often, they never imagine that they could do something to truly harm another person. And feeling dulled or gaining weight could be doing further damage to their mental health.

    Personal anecdote: A while back, it was suggested that I go on antidepressants. I chose not to for a whole variety of reasons, but among them were the facts that I didn’t want to feel dulled, as many friends on anti-depressents had described the experience, and I didn’t want to gain weight. Shallow? Certainly. And it’s not as simple as, “I want to sit around and be miserable all the time rather than getting fat.” It’s that I knew that if I gained a large amount of weight, it would further throw off my mental health, and make me unhappy in all new ways. It’s that part of the depression issues I was experiencing were linked to my already extremely poor body image, and my pervasive feeling of being fat and unattractive. I already felt fat, which made me feel awful — gaining even more weight, especially a significant amount of weight (which antidepressants can cause) would have been psychologically devasating for me.

    Does that suck? Yeah. Do I wish that I was a more stable person with a more defined sense of self and that the idea of gaining weight wasn’t a big deal to me? Yeah. And sure, antipsychotics are much more serious than antidepressants. But I think it’s important to criticize the society we live in, wherein overweight people are shamed and presented as undesireable, rather than criticizing individuals who take what might seem like drastic or stupid steps in order to avoid gaining weight.

  35. I don’t pretend to know what causes obesity, but I think one thing that contributes to bad eating habits, clear across the class spectrum, is the increasing time crunch that a lot of people face.

    I want to second that, because it’s precisely the same thought I had when I read Raging Moderate’s question. I’m solidly upper-middle-class. Now, I’m not obese or overweight, but I am at the top end of the range for my height. And I can tell you that the idea of working 10+ hour days (excluding 2 hours roundtrip commute) and then coming home and cooking fresh food is tiring at best. I eat breakfast and lunch at work too, mostly at my desk, and the selection isn’t fantastic. There’s also the call of the vending machine, which does not stock healthy snacks. I also think that the fatigue caused by being over-worked causes a lot of people to snack more than they otherwise might. You want that sugar rush to get you through the afternoon slump. A lot of my coworkers are the same way.

    So the issue for us isn’t the lack of availability to fresh food. It’s a lack of time and energy to prepare it. I wish our cafeteria offered a better selection of healthy, balanced choices, rather than the “all pork days” or the “everything’s fried” days. As for the prepared salads they offer, these are typically either cobb or chicken caesar salads, and I assure you that neither of those are low in calories as some might think. We recently got a survey asking us what we thought about this, so I hope others answered it the same way I did.

    One thing that is interesting, to me, is the arguments I have with the cafeteria workers about the portion sizes. When they do offer the non-pork, non-fried fare, I’ll often ask them for one slice of the roast turkey, just a half-scoop of the potatoes, and the broccoli. And almost inevitably, they’re like “No, we have to give you more.” To which I respond, “Please, don’t. I’ll pay the full price.” I wonder if that isn’t a class issue. I wind up paying the same price for 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of food, which I could understand appearing to be wasteful to people in lower-income jobs.

    FYI, pork is just something I don’t like. It can be part of a balanced diet if prepared properly.

    Disclaimer: Yes, I could prepare my own breakfasts and lunches and bring them to work. See also the tiring part due to the hours I work.

  36. I’m sure you’ve all seen the price of fresh fruits and vegetables too. It’s hard to keep your budget balanced and eat well too.

  37. I’m aware that the keyword is “extra.” And, yes, if I drank two sodas instead of one soda every day at lunch, I would not gain 15 pounds by next fall! Would you?

    Something tells me this poster is still enjoying the metabolism of YOUTH. If I am wrong, forgive me; yet I do remember the days well, when I could eat a giant chili-cheesburger, a chocolate malt, and an order of onion rings, FOLLOWED by a slice of chocolate cream pie, and NEVER GAIN AN OUNCE.

    At 45, one extra Coke a day=20 pounds a year, easy.

    It is really hard for people to accept that slenderness DOES NOT equal Virtue, and fatness DOES NOT equal vice. (For some reason, those who feel virtuous have the hardest time!)

    Some one above thread said they were addicted to diet Coke. Yes you are addicted. They make it addictive, ON PURPOSE. You are being used by a giant corporation to make money. They are selling you a diet drink that actually MAKES YOU FAT. (The false sweeteners cause your liver to be unable to process fats, so your body will back up on fats, so to speak, in spite of the No Calories thing.)

    There are a lot of reasons why carbonated sodas are a bad choice. The reason some of you are defending them so strongly is because they are addictive, and you feel threatened (with not getting to feel OK about drinking them.) High fructose corn syrup and fake sweeteners are BOTH health nightmares. Both cause kidney stones, too. Often you find out what NOT to do AFTER you have a major health problem…..doctors don’t really want to TELL you what is genuinely bad for you until then.

    Everyone can have a soda now and then, same as you can have ice cream now and then. But the Soda companies are doing very well at convincing folks to have soda every day, sometimes all day long everyday. Try going without soda ffor a month, and THEN see how delicious you think it is!

  38. Does that suck? Yeah. Do I wish that I was a more stable person with a more defined sense of self and that the idea of gaining weight wasn’t a big deal to me? Yeah.

    Oh, baby. Just WAIT until you start to practice.

  39. HFCS is highly processed, and isn’t handled by your body in the same way at all.

    this is a common misconception. sugar is sugar, as far as calories are concerned. it all has 4 kCal/gm. an extra tablespoon of HFCS = an extra tablespoon of cane sugar = an extra tablespoon of honey (well, corrected for differing densities, that is).

    I bet the increased energy would cause me to unconciously increase my activity.

    that’s not how metabolism works. contrary to popular beleif, the body doesn’t know what is good for it. increased caloric consumption does not stimulate the body to increase activity. if increase of calories exceeds the body’s use of calories, the body stores the extra calories as fat, not push-ups.

    Is this study suggesting that by drinking a soda at lunch every day I’ll have gained 60 pounds by 2010?

    No. the calculation relies on 3500 calories = 1 lb of weight gained or lost. which means: eat 3500 fewer calories than you expend, and you will lose 1 pound. eat 3500 more calories than you expend, and you will gain 1 pound. However, heavier people expend more calories than lighter people doing the same activity. so as you gain weight, you require more calories to sustain that weight. The can of soda that was 120 calories more than you were expending is now only 110 calories more than you are expending. If you are mathematically inclined, the weight gained vs time with constant caloric intake resembles a log curve.

    Some one above thread said they were addicted to diet Coke. Yes you are addicted. They make it addictive, ON PURPOSE. You are being used by a giant corporation to make money. They are selling you a diet drink that actually MAKES YOU FAT. (The false sweeteners cause your liver to be unable to process fats, so your body will back up on fats, so to speak, in spite of the No Calories thing.)

    too much trouble for me to refute this point by point, so I’ll just say you’re wrong. Except for the part about being used by a giant corporation to make money. guess what though – everyone you buy something from is using you to make money.

  40. Frumious B. – I believe that fructose is metabolized in the liver differently from sucrose (standard sugar) and messes up insulin’s effects on the body … I forget how exactly but I read about it in Greg Critser’s Fat Land. Because HFCS is a relatively recent invention, no one actually knows *exactly* its effects on the human body.

    Kathy at 40: “It is really hard for people to accept that slenderness DOES NOT equal Virtue, and fatness DOES NOT equal vice.”
    I agree – I hear people say that they hate fat people because they eat too much and sit on their butts and that’s a lot of crap – antifat people hate fat people because of shallow appearance-centric concerns. I’m sure some fat people are lazy and eat too much, but I’ve had a lot of SKINNY people brag about how much food they can eat and not gain a pound, and that’s seen as cute. If it was about gluttony or sloth, fat haters would be hating those skinny people just as much.

  41. I’d like to chime in about going to the other extreme in school lunches. Way back in comment 20, Olive mentions that her school offered “milk, skim milk, and chocolate milk.” Mine was similar, except that it was 2%, skim, or 1% chocolate. Or you could buy a drink from the snack table — no soda, but the most popular drink was a “sparkling flavored water” that was almost as bad for you. I despise all milk but whole, guess what I drank all through school?

    These days, I’m a substitute teacher in a school that’s on a massive health-kick. Everything has to be low-fat, no-fat, organic, no trans-fat, etc, etc, etc. Result? The kids are eating the only thing left to them that looks and tastes appealing and filling: bagels & cream cheese. Or they’re just plain NOT eating – I’ll leave you to imagine the effect that has on their afternoon classes — and going out for snacks immediately after school. The ones old enough to leave campus for lunch are going across the street for pizza and burgers daily. The faculty, likewise, are buying outside fast food.

    Could we just stop obsessing about the food and offer basic, balanced meals with a small serving of sweet for after? Please? Because frankly, I don’t think harping endlessly on the “fattening” properties of normal food is a healthy behavior to be modelling to kids.

  42. this is a common misconception. sugar is sugar, as far as calories are concerned. it all has 4 kCal/gm. an extra tablespoon of HFCS = an extra tablespoon of cane sugar = an extra tablespoon of honey (well, corrected for differing densities, that is).

    The kind of misconception that is backed up by at least some scientific study.

    From the abstract of the article linked above:

    The digestion, absorption, and metabolism of fructose differ from those of glucose. Hepatic metabolism of fructose favors de novo lipogenesis. In addition, unlike glucose, fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion or enhance leptin production. Because insulin and leptin act as key afferent signals in the regulation of food intake and body weight, this suggests that dietary fructose may contribute to increased energy intake and weight gain.

    The rest of that (peer-reviewed) page provides exhaustive and extensively footnoted discussion of precisely how humans metabolize fructose diifferently from glucose or sucrose.

  43. Yes, this is anecdote, not data, but we need to stop assuming that just because somebody is fat it means they’re making poor choices in what they consume.

    So that the “obesity crisis” is a structural problem, not a problem of individual morality.

    First, do the quotes around “obesity crisis” mean you don’t think that obesity is becoming more common, or that it is occurring but is not a crisis?

    Second, I agree that obesity has nothing to do with morality (some of the meanest people I know are skinny). But I do believe that for the vast majority of obese people, it is a matter of making poor choices in what they consume (eating “bad” food, or just taking in too many calories), for whatever reason. Do you agree?

  44. But I think it’s important to criticize the society we live in, wherein overweight people are shamed and presented as undesireable, rather than criticizing individuals who take what might seem like drastic or stupid steps in order to avoid gaining weight.

    I didn’t mean to make it look like I was criticizing the people weighing their options – I was criticising the clunky author who made it such a stark distinction and made it seem so undesireable. The whole first half of the article set a very tragic tone for the death, and then switched right into the bald assertion “but they might gain weight!” It was the “grade C- at best in a college writing class” style that upset me. It also reminded me of a longer article from last year written by a psychiatrist in which a woman went on antipsychotics, gained 50 pounds but became completely happy, and the whole article was about how it was such a tragedy that a beautiful young woman gained so much weight and “didn’t seem to care about it”. Like that was more important.

    Also, they’ve already been archived, but there have been several articles in the NYTimes lately regarding how people don’t all metabolize the same way, and saying 3500 calories = 1 pound is about as realistic as saying everyone has a body temperature of 98.6 degrees.

  45. Raging Moderate – I’m not a nutritionist, although I’ve done low-level research on obesity. My pet theory is that our western lifestyle – fattening food, driving rather than walking or using mass transit, and not getting a lot of exercise – has affected the vast majority of people, thin, normal and fat. However, the people with lower metabolisms gain weight and become overweight and obese, whereas people with middle/higher metabolisms follow the same lifestyle but don’t become overweight and obese. I’m sick of the whole thing about “I hate fat people because they’re lazy pigs”, because as I mentioned earlier, I know many skinny people who brag about how much junk food they eat and they don’t gain an ounce. However, because they’re considered attractive, their gluttony (and sometimes sloth) is considered cute. In my opinion, hatred against fat people centers around lookism, not concern over eating and exercise habits.
    Also, people have mentioned upthread that it’s not always easy to find healthy food to eat. Sometimes you don’t have the fruits, vegetables and brown rice to choose over the fatty fast food meal. For a lot of low-income people, fast food is all that’s available and cheap; not everyone has the leisure time and money to get a gym membership.
    Lastly, what is fat? I wear a size four, FWIW have a healthy BMI and my doctors have never told me anything bad about my body size. However, people tell me I’m fat or make comments about my weight, because I *horrors!* don’t have the body of a Maxim pin-up.

  46. I gained a lot of weight when I was broke-er, partially because fattening (and yummy…) foods were the best way to eat cheaply. When I started weight watchers this year, I was amazed at how much my food budget went up (almost doubled!) for WAY less food. I started going back to school and so I work less hours (but thank god I have such a wonderful employer who just let me shift my hours around to keep my insurance, I thought I was going to have to quit), and so I’m trying to shop more cheaply while still staying on WW. I’ve discovered that its possible, but I pretty much have to forego the treats that kept losing weight less tedious for me (skinny cow ice cream, 100 calorie packs, etc.) because they are just ridiculously overpriced. And I, as a single girl with a super-cheap apartment make more than a lot of families with kids and yet I still feel the financial strain of trying to get something tasty and healthy. It is not hard to see how people gain weight under those circumstances.

  47. Raging Moderate – I’m not a nutritionist, although I’ve done low-level research on obesity. My pet theory is that our western lifestyle – fattening food, driving rather than walking or using mass transit, and not getting a lot of exercise – has affected the vast majority of people, thin, normal and fat.

    I agree completely. There are thousands of reasons why people make poor health choices, but they are still poor choices. Kinda like when a smoker (like myself) says “I can’t try to quit now, I’m under too much stress.” There is a reason, but it is still a poor choice.

    I’m sick of the whole thing about “I hate fat people because they’re lazy pigs”

    Me too.

  48. Where I live, kids are regularly injured, or even killed, by cars while walking to school. In rural areas, sometimes the only road you can walk on is a main arterial, or what would be called so in toen, and it probably doesn’t have a walkway or even a shoulder to walk on. It really is about safety. Maybe not so much in town.

    But I don’t think this has a lot to do with obesity. Walking can give you an appetite. It seems that somehow, people don’t get the same satiety messages from their stomaches after consuming modern “junk” foods, and drinks.

  49. About the getting kids to walk to school safely problem New Zealand has at least a partial solution, groups of parents set up what’s called a walking school bus where a couple of parents escort large groups of kids to and from school every day. The kids love it and so it seems do most of the grown ups.

    I know it’s very middle class non-commuter solution but it increases the exercise that kids are getting and reduces the number of parents driving their kids to school which makes kids safer overall.

  50. everyone has a body temperature of 98.6 degrees

    hehe… I usually come up between 96-97.8 degrees. Which explains why I like warmer temperatures than average (average being 98.6). My brother’s have a higher metabolism than I do, that’s why they can get away with drinking a 24 pack of soda a night and not gain a pound, but I can’t drink 1 without making allowances in the rest of my diet. (my brothers suck! *sticks out tongue*)

    On the whole topic of – we make villians out of fat people: There is an story I would like to share.

    I had a friend in the 6th grade who was obese. He always ate a small, healthy lunch of fresh fruit and vegatables, maybe a sandwich. The portions were less than anything I would eat. He did not eat in the cafeteria like other kids (though I did not know why for a long time). He ate alone in the classrooms, except when I would stay with him. He was funny, smart, sensitive and a good friend. One day he was eating lunch and he broached the topic of his weight. He told me that no matter what he did, he couldn’t seem to lose the weight. I said that it seemed strange that he always ate like a bird, but never seemed any different. He mentioned that he had a slow metabolism. He was upset about his weight because A) it was unhealthy, B) he wanted to be thinner but mostly because C) the other kids taunted him relentlessly, sticking things in his locker, bullying him, all sorts of things. I had not realized anyone was doing this to him, I offered to beat up anyone if he would point them out to me (I had quite a reputation back then). Being the good, kind soul that he was, he declined.

    The taunting from the other children became so terrible that he was on anti-depressents, seeing a psychiatrist and eventually his parents pulled him from public school to send him to a private school. Another friend told me later that she heard that he’d committed suicide, because the taunting became much worse at the private school.

    I don’t know if that’s true, but the thought pains me. Especially that there was nothing I could do to help, and there was nothing he could do about his weight. He wasn’t a glutton or a bad person, he didn’t drink soda, or sugary stuff, but he was overweight and because of that, made the object of ridicule by his peers.

    Villianizing based on aesthics needs to stop. You can’t judge a book by it’s cover, you have to read it to know what’s inside.

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