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David Choe totally hates rapists, is only guilty of bad storytelling

Caperton

[Strong, strong trigger warning for rape]

In the March 10 episode of his podcast, graffiti artist David Choe — he who has gained a degree of fame for murals in the Facebook offices and a portrait of President Obama, among other works — recounted in lurid and self-satisfied detail his activities of the night before, in which he raped his masseuse at a massage parlor. (I only found out about it this weekend via Gawker.)

Describing her as “half black, half white — she’s a magic person” with curly hair and large breasts, he talks about encounters in the past in which he’d tried to touch her and she’d pushed him away. He mentions her disgust at rich men coming into the massage parlor and propositioning her. He mentions her concerns about a man in her neighborhood who breaks into women’s houses and masturbates onto them while they sleep. And he describes how all of this gives him a massive erection. And he describes how he forces her to take care of it for him, in the tone of a naughty little scamp recounting his randy late-night antics.

The following is a clinical but specific description of the assault he committed; if this will cause trouble for you, please save yourself the pain and skip down to the next paragraph (which is still disgusting, but not like this): He begins masturbating in front of her. He asks her to masturbate him, and when she refuses, he takes her hand, places it on his dick, and forces her to do it. He asks her to go down on him, and when she refuses, he holds her by the back of the head and forces himself into her mouth until he’s done. But it isn’t rape, because “she said yes with her eyes.”

He notes:

“She has given me no signs that she’s into me or that this is appropriate behavior.”

“It’s definitely not what I’m supposed to be doing. It’s definitely crossing the line. … It’s disgusting.”

“She didn’t want to do it.”

“The thrill of possibly going to jail, you know — that’s what achieved the erection quest.”

“She said yes with her eyes, in the dark room. I saw it in the candlelight.”

“On paper, she showed me that ‘I’m not interested in this way at all.'”

And yet,

“I did not fucking rape her, okay? Jesus Christ.”

Because she didn’t call security when he began assaulting her, or bite his dick off. Because afterwards, he claims, she confessed to having a crush on him, and his “instincts” that it had been okay to force himself on her were vindicated. It was rapey, he admits, but it didn’t make him a rapist. Despite co-host Asa Akira’s repeated insistence that no, in fact, he was a rapist on account of raping a woman, he continued professing his non-rapistness until finally cutting the show short “because [he didn’t] want to go to jail.” Because the worst thing you can be called is a rapist. Committing rape? Confessing to it on the air? Naughty behavior. But calling someone a rapist? How dare you, sir?!

But hold on. Wait. We don’t get to call him names or be mad at him. Because he was TOTALLY KIDDING, Y’ALL, JESUS.

On Friday, shortly after the story came out on Gawker and xojane, Choe hurried to his blog to tell us that duh, he’s not a rapist, he’s an artist and a storyteller and art is controversial and besides it didn’t even really happen, he was just messing with people. If he’s guilty of anything, he says, it’s bad storytelling. He signs off with, “In a world full of horrible people, thank god for us.”

Bad storytelling. Like the problem was inadequate development of secondary characters. Pacing. Poor world-building. Personally, I’m going to call it an editing issue. Because, see, if he edited out the part where he talked about raping a woman, the story wouldn’t have been nearly as rapey.

“I never thought I’d wake up one late afternoon and hear myself called a rapist,” he says in his post (possibly having forgotten the time he described himself being one on his podcast). “Especially since I am not one,” he continues (presumably continuing to not remember). His story, he insists, was just him messing around with his co-hosts and telling an entertaining story that was “not a representation of [his] reality. … It’s my version of reality, it’s art that sometimes offends people.”

So now we’re looking at two options: Option A, he raped a woman, recounted the hilarious story in gratuitous detail on his podcast, denied any guilt, and lied about it six weeks later. Option B, he made up a story about raping a woman, weaving in disgusting and gratuitous details from the depths of his own mind, told it with relish, and couldn’t believe we silly, reactive Philistines took it seriously. Because his podcasts challenge and provoke, y’all.

Either way, sexual assault of a woman was a punchline, a topic for entertainment, a story told for a good chuckle. Because she’s just a woman, right? Just a service professional. Just a “magic” person of color. Who didn’t struggle. And the man who laughingly talked about raping her is neither (option A) in jail or (option B) unemployed. Call me a humorless feminist; call me a cultureless, closed-minded vulgarian; but for some strange reason I’m not laughing.

52 thoughts on David Choe totally hates rapists, is only guilty of bad storytelling

  1. Asshole thinks he gets a free pass because:
    It’s art and Woody Allen does art.
    Customers and bosses treat service personnel any way they want.
    Women are trafficked into prostitution parlors called massage.
    She’s obviously in an underclass.
    If she’s magically pretty, she’s asking for it.
    If she bitches about sexual harassment on the job, she’s asked for it.
    He’s in a privileged class and steals what he wants, including the agency of others.
    He creates lies and excuses and passes them off as legit fiction.

    Fratboy here needs a good Georgia pine 4×4 upside the head, to straighten out his thinking. He has all the ethics and misplaced delusions of privilege of a bonus banker on the take. If his story turns out to be unfortunate fact, it would be great if the masseuse gathers up some badass friends to run some black magic on him.

  3. Sorry, who the fuck is this guy? What the hell kind of delusions does he have that everyone else misinterpreted his art (if he didn’t in fact rape this girl), rather than he’s just really bad at it? You do graffiti, bro? So… you’re not an author or storyteller, but you fashioned yourself as one?

    If I start telling everyone that I’m super famous, does that absolve me of poor life decisions? Because that’s a thing I’m willing to do.

  4. I think option A is what happened. He honestly didn’t think it was rape and was therefore comfortable recounting the story. I do think rape culture is to blame for his ignorance. After, his co-hosts informed him it was rape. He became scared of the police and tried to justify the story as not rape. The next day after talking to his lawyer and PR people he claims that he made up the story. If he had really made up the story he would have said so when his co-hosts first told him it was rape.

    I only hope that the survivor is not aware he’s going around telling the story for cheap laughs.

    1. I dunno, people who are ignorant of the law don’t tend to say that the thrill of it all is that they could end up in jail for their transgression.

    2. I agree with your comment that the ignorance from rape culture made him think it was ok to both do this and tell the story. Rape culture taught him that rapists are other people. They use violence. Not him.

      It reminds me of another blog post I read recently about bigotry, in particular the recent shooting at a JCC. The take away was that it’s too common for people to think that that guy was the bigot, not the people who just hold the belief that Jews are in control of the banks or whatever. Too many people think it’s ok to think/do whatever as long as you don’t use violence.

      Is it naive of me to hope that he and his listeners learned something from this?

      1. I agree with your comment that the ignorance from rape culture made him think it was ok to both do this and tell the story. Rape culture taught him that rapists are other people. They use violence. Not him.

        It reminds me of another blog post I read recently about bigotry, in particular the recent shooting at a JCC. The take away was that it’s too common for people to think that that guy was the bigot, not the people who just hold the belief that Jews are in control of the banks or whatever. Too many people think it’s ok to think/do whatever as long as you don’t use violence.

        Holding a person’s head down and forcing one’s penis into their mouth is not violent????? On which planet?

        1. I think Emily meant as opposed to traditional “jumps out of bushes” narratives. I don’t think she disagrees with you – I think she was using the kind of language Choe would utilize.

        2. I think Emily meant as opposed to traditional “jumps out of bushes” narratives. I don’t think she disagrees with you – I think she was using the kind of language Choe would utilize.

          My comment was directed at the people emily was quoting on the blog she read, not emily herself.

          Like, I don’t understand why they don’t see how that is the violent bit. I have been jumped, I’ve been thrown to the ground, and I’ve been punched in the face. I’ve never had someone force their penis down my throat, but it sounds like a far more violent act than the ones I’ve experienced.

  5. I don’t know why Gawker and even their comments don’t mention this, but seemingly an important point in this story (Caperton’s, not Choe’s) is that Choe is Asian American, co-hosting a podcast with a porn star, and basically attempting to be Howard Stern — cool, hypermasculine, all that stuff. At the beginning of the podcast, he goes into a spiel about Asian American males being considered sexually undesirable/nonthreatening, before going into his tale of sexual conquest.

    It says a lot that some Asian American males feel the need to counter their emasculation by U.S. society (i.e. Asians as sexless geeks or nerdy foreigners) with knee-jerk hypermasculinity. And they do it at the expense of… Asian American females? Gee, shortchanging gender equality for perceived racial equality, where have we seen that before!

    1. “And they do it at the expense of… Asian American females? Gee, shortchanging gender equality for perceived racial equality, where have we seen that before!”

      He described the woman as being half white and half black. It was part of why he found her attractive.

      I do get your point about hyper masculinity

    2. Oh yeah, I didn’t even remember that — I didn’t want to read the transcript more than once, since it sounded so stupid the first time. I can see why an Asian American male might exaggerate or concoct a tale of sexual conquest to make Asians seem more manly, but a biracial female is “a magic person”? There’s no excuse for that racism, from someone else of another historically marginalised group.

      1. Oh yeah, I didn’t even remember that — I didn’t want to read the transcript more than once, since it sounded so stupid the first time. I can see why an Asian American male might exaggerate or concoct a tale of sexual conquest to make Asians seem more manly, but a biracial female is “a magic person”? There’s no excuse for that racism, from someone else of another historically marginalised group.

        His co-host was an Asian-American woman, maybe that’s what threw you at first…

    3. as pointed out, he describes his victim as bi-racial. there is a history of black female sexuality and the abuse thereof in this country. he might have been comfortable relaying his “tale” because he feels no one would see his victim as a “true” victim. After all, she’s considered black and as i pointed out at gawker (or jezebel) some feel that black women “cannot be raped” and this line of reasoning was actually used by a defense attorney for the rapist of a 10-year-old black child. think of the black immigrant maid assaulted by the IMF douche. understand that a society that can label a young black girl up for an oscar as a “cunt” does not respect black women at all.

      1. I’ve actually been thinking about the maid you mention a lot this week, and how differently her narrative was treated when she accused a powerful man of assault compared to the man who accused three Hollywood executives of assault this week. I’ve seen no comments accusing him of lying (which is great, and that’s how it should be, but other accusers should get the same benefit of the doubt…. and I can’t help but think gender – and possibly race, but I can’t admit to knowing the race of the male accuser – matters here).

    4. It says a lot that some Asian American males feel the need to counter their emasculation by U.S. society (i.e. Asians as sexless geeks or nerdy foreigners) with knee-jerk hypermasculinity.

      So out of the sexless-geek/nerdy-foreigner pot and straight into the sexist patriarch-from-which-women-of-color-need-to-be-rescued-by-‘enlightened’-white-man kettle. As an Asian American male, I think this kind of thing isn’t just as the expense of females, it’s at our own expense too.

      1. At the beginning of the podcast, he goes into a spiel about Asian American males being considered sexually undesirable/nonthreatening, before going into his tale of sexual conquest.

        It was Choe who made the connection between this stereotype and his subsequent rape of the masseuse, not Echo Zen, so take it up with him. I have no idea where you’re getting the “more enlightened white men” crap from. Certainly not from zir comment. And no, David Choe’s rape of his masseuse and buy-in to rape culture was at her expense and the expense of other women, not yours.

        I am so sick of this patriarchy hurts men too bullshit. God forbid you take a few minutes to contemplate the far greater injuries men use patriarchy to inflict on women.

        1. I have no idea where you’re getting the “more enlightened white men” crap from.

          Then you’re pretty clueless.

          As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea where your reading of my comment is coming from. This place is really still 101 when it comes to race.

        2. I am so sick of this patriarchy hurts men too bullshit.

          My point wasn’t that “patriarchy hurts men”, it’s that trying to escape one racial stereotype by conforming to another one hurts Asian American men. Not because we’re men but because we’re Asian American.

  6. So, this guy does some really bad BDSM erotica, without warning people, and he wonders why people are mad? I mean, there are places on the internet he could have written bad BDSM erotica and they would have happily accepted it, but he just wrote a crummy rape fantasy without any warning or context and expected people to be okay with it? Dumb.

    Mr. Choe should realize that if he is writing and “performing” rape fantasy erotica on his podcast, then people will think he might have a rape fetish. Not so far that he’s an actual rapist, but the suspicion is such that he should probably keep it to the proper restricted channels. Otherwise, your stupid rape fantasy will make people think that your interest in rape means that you might, you know, rape people.

    1. So you’re assuming it was the original story that was made up, not the current one? I hope you’re right for the sake of the woman he claimed to have raped, but I’m not exactly confident that you are.

      2. I guess I can’t be 100% sure that this story is fake, even if it sounds 100% like a bad porno. I mean, awkward setup, gratuitous detail, people acting like sex toys instead of people, all of it. Maybe Mr. Choe actually did meet a masseuse and acted out a bad rape fantasy that involved him putting her in places where she could have easily broken off consent (as mentioned above, she could have just bitten his dick off).

        I believe that it’s bad storytelling, because people (specifically his victim) don’t act that way in real life. It’s entirely possible that the bad rape fantasy he wrote could be built on an actual rape he committed. If that is the case, then he must have changed several details, because IRL rape doesn’t get acted out like bad porn.

        That, and I guess I’m trying to be hopeful for humanity. I want to believe that bad rape porn is not a thing that is acted out in the real world. He still deserves to get fired for printing this garbage, but I don’t see enough evidence for either sides to straight up say he’s a rapist.

        1. You’re making it sound like it’s impossible for a man to rape a woman orally, because she could just bite his dick off. I have had more than one friend who was indeed raped orally, no matter how unlikely it sounds to you.

        2. I believe that it’s bad storytelling, because people (specifically his victim) don’t act that way in real life.

          People don’t freeze up when getting sexually assaulted? That’s categorically ridiculous. That’s literally akin to “she was saying yes with her eyes” and “she didn’t fight back and call the cops, so it can’t be rape.” WTF.

        5. It’s also really difficult to “bite down” [strong trigger warning – here goes explicit description of assault!] when a fully erect penis is being jammed in and out of your mouth/partway down your throat in rapid succession, while your rapist holds your head (as rapist Choe admits to doing).

          And Picaloie, you’re being a real jerk. REALLY.

        6. Among other problems with your comments already mentioned, there is the fact that Choe himself said the thrill of going to jail was what achieved his “erection quest.”

          And fuck you for policing how a person in the midst of being raped should respond and react. Just fuck you very much.

  7. My mind instantly thinks it really happened. I also think he probably felt comfortable talking about because he was in the presence of a woman who works in the adult industry. I can’t tell you the number of people I’ve encountered who truly believe that sex workers must, by default, have a very “devil may care” attitude towards anything that involves sex. I do give his co-host credit for pointing out, repeatedly, that what he did was rape, in no uncertain terms. It really seems like he was slightly thrown when she, who he probably expected would find the story “hot” or something like that, called it rape.

    1. I can’t tell you the number of people I’ve encountered who truly believe that sex workers must, by default, have a very “devil may care” attitude towards anything that involves sex. I do give his co-host credit for pointing out, repeatedly, that what he did was rape, in no uncertain terms. It really seems like he was slightly thrown when she, who he probably expected would find the story “hot” or something like that, called it rape.

      I can see that, though you would think that attitude would change when you get to know the adult stars as people. It certainly did for me. In my case, when I started sharing a studio with Playboy Radio and getting to know adult film stars as people, I eventually stopped watching porn completely. One specific instance springs to mind where I spent all day hanging out with this one particular star, then went home and watched one of her movies- and not to resurrect the ‘is masturbating to porn cheating?’ argument- but, it certainly did feel like cheating to this married guy.

  9. I worked as a massage therapist. I don’t care if it is just a story, its not fucking funny or entertaining. I can’t count how many men aggressively hit on me and sexually harrassed me over the years. Happy ending references got you kicked the hell off my table, joke or not. In fact, my intake sheet stated ANY sexual references at all would immediately end the session, the entire amount would STILL be collected, and I’d report your name and drivers license to the police and state health department. They had to sign this and they still tried. And I kicked them out, telling the receptionist what occured and she made them pay up. And I did report them, not that anything ever came from it. I made damn sure everyone in the spa knew what had just happened. Loudly. This jack ass should be blacklisted by every MT across the country. As well as investigated for rape. Douchebag.

    1. In fact, my intake sheet stated ANY sexual references at all would immediately end the session, the entire amount would STILL be collected, and I’d report your name and drivers license to the police and state health department. They had to sign this and they still tried.

      That’s because that rule only applied to the ‘other men,’ in Mr. Happy Ending’s mind, he’s the exception because well, he’s just so irresistible and hey, he’s willing to pay extra. Of course he doesn’t realize (or want to realize) that he’s probably the third joker that week who had that idea and they were all wrong.

    2. And the existence of those stupid massage parlors piss me off. I had to pay money for massage school, work my ass off, take an exam and keep my license current. I had to work hard to earn the title massage therapist. And those parlors shit on that hard work, and perpetuate the belief we’re all sex workers if the price is right. Which made my job more dangerous than it should have been.

      1. Choe said a couple of times in his podcast that he knew this was a legitimate establishment — he went because of muscle strain in his back — and that what he was doing was completely wrong from the very beginning. But (in his story) he did it anyway, because he popped a boner and he wanted the “magic person” to take care of it. By force, if necessary. Not that it would have been okay for him to rape a masseuse at a Happy Ending parlor anyway.

        2. But (in his story) he did it anyway, because he popped a boner and he wanted the “magic person” to take care of it

          A spontaneous erection happened to me only once during a massage and I was mortified to the point of refusing to turn over (I was lying on my stomach at the time.) The woman massaging me was like ‘don’t worry, I’ve seen everything’ but I still was to embarrassed to ever call her again despite the massage being one of the best I’d ever had.

        3. We aren’t bothered by non creepy erections. It’s not uncommon. The body responds to touch. Not always in a way you intend. Trust me. We know the difference. The air changes when it’s a creep.

    3. People are scum. Massage therapists are, at least to me, goddamn health care providers. Visiting mine once a month keeps me from having to live with constant pain. I can’t imagine wanting to do something so shitty to somebody who was actually, you know, helping me.

      1. I wish more people viewed it that way. Here, we’re not respected at all. I miss it though. I enjoyed helping people and I was -good- at it. I had clients that would fly in from Dallas just to come to me. But this occipital neuralgia I have put the kibash on it.

  10. the guy simply is a tragic pervert, but what is offending about it is that he shares his perverted fantasies and seems to be proud of them, on the expense of that woman, and even if she is an imaginary one, degrading one is to degrade all

  11. I read this story a couple of days ago on xojane… and I haven’t been able to get it out of my head. I am a white man (one of the ‘privileged’ in society) and have been reading up not just on this case, but several articles that I have recently run across about rape threats to bloggers and podcasters and other online or on-air female talent. I am very sickened by it and until reading these articles the other day, I had no idea that rape threats were so prevalent. I know that there is a rape culture and that it is a major problem, but I am sort of turning a corner in the way that I perceive of HOW MUCH of a problem it is. How deeply ingrained this is for some men. I feel sort of at a loss for understanding how things can be this messed up.

    I had the exact same reaction as the writer – thinking that either A) he raped her or B) he told a messed up story where rape was portrayed as good and a ‘conquest’. I really really don’t get this. I really want it to end, and I just wanted to say that as a man, I am not afraid to be a feminist and lend support. I just don’t know where to go from here.

    PS I did send this guy an angry email about it, not that that is such a big thing in and of itself, but I am trying to take a more vocal stance against this behavior, whether it is joking or reality. I want to be one of the men that make other men feel uncomfortable and ashamed for thinking this stuff is funny or cool.

    1. PS I did send this guy an angry email about it, not that that is such a big thing in and of itself, but I am trying to take a more vocal stance against this behavior, whether it is joking or reality. I want to be one of the men that make other men feel uncomfortable and ashamed for thinking this stuff is funny or cool.

      This is cool. I think this kind of thing can go a long way, and honestly, makes me feel less cynical. Thanks.

        1. Yes, men need to call out this behavior from other men. Using your privilege against misogyny is one good way to contribute.

    2. It’s great to hear that BJ DuVall:) I think that taking a stand, when you hear somebody make sexist comment is a good way to go. These small actions really matter, more than you might think.

        1. good point. emailing him sort of felt fruitless. More cathartic for me to get to call him names and whatnot… and also to just get my feet wet in confronting this type of thing. I am not typically very vocal online or anywhere else.

          Probably what would hurt him the most at this moment would be to contact Vice and see about impacting his podcast. I don’t know much about this guy other than that. I don’t think Facebook or the White House currently supports him. I think he has just done murals for both of those entities.

          I think he was recently on Anthony Bourdain’s show.. but just as a guest. I am not sure he is as big of a celebrity as people make him out to be. I think becoming rich off Facebook stock and this rape episode thing are his two major claims to fame. I could be wrong.

  12. Ugh this guy. Whatever happened in that massage room, there is no question that he is repugnant. Watching the podcast, I really felt like he was full of shit, that at the very least he was embellishing the details of the story…ug and the men in the room who were just panting for more, and the poor woman who was trying to talk some sense, but not be too “shrill”…talk about a perfect scenario depicting “rape culture”.

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