This Just In January 5, 2006 Lauren From Michelle Malkin: Rape is worse when Muslims do it. Crickets. Chirping.
Where do you get that from? She’s saying (or rather, the person she’s quoting is saying) that the rightful feminist outrage at rape is being damped out of multi-culti sensitivity.
Frankly Malkin answers the blogger’s question. The story was, in her words, “buried.” I’d never heard of it until now. Feminists are not responsible for responding with outrage on Malkin’s terms, but do not doubt feminist disgust of any person’s rape, whether it be instigated by a parent, a stranger, an inmate, or a “pack” of Muslims.
She’s right. If it wasn’t for the Independent Women’s Forum, or Phyllis Schlafly’s Eagle Forum, I’d never hear about human rights abuses and sexual crimes in other countries at all. I think that this might be as simple as answering the “Where is Amnesty Interational’s outrage about Cuba?” with a link to the numerous AI reports on Cuban human rights abuses. Also, from the original question: The uses of seven consecutive question marks (“???????”) indicates that either the person really, really, really, really, really, really, really wants to know the answer, or it’s a rhetorical bludgeon. Having spent a year or two perusing Winds of Change, I know what my answer is.
Er, where is Malkin’s rage? I don’t see any range on her part, just smugness. Does she require a cue from Western feminists before she can get enraged? Seriously, could someone explain this to me?
hell, I bent over backwards to give Michelle a chance to condemn a few nasty actions she seemed to have overlooked, and that was nine months ago, and yet I’ve heard not a peep.
Please. You guys don’t want to address the underlying point – the media, both here and in Europe, don’t report/under-report on criminal behavior because of the ethnicity or religion of the perpetrators. As feminists, YOU should be outraged – that France’s newspapers think more of the feelings of the Muslim community than they do of the lives and safety of women. The fact that you don’t like her politics shouldn’t blind you to the importance of what she’s said.
I wouldn’t say there is no outrage over the incidence of rape in Muslim communities in France. I’ve read several articles reporting on the phenomenon as well as discussing a galvanized movement among women in France to assist the victims–and in relatively mainstream locations, such as Marie Claire magazine.
Robert, do you have evidence that France’s news sources are hiding the story? The International Herald Tribune states that France is in an uproar. Unless you’re saying that any news story must make a meal of the ethnicity and/or religion of the principles, since the IHT story makes it seem as though the incident had a lot to do with cheap train fares and plentiful alcohol. “A group of white Christians rioted today on dollar beer night at yankee stadium…”
My Confusing Day Excursion with Michelle Malkin 8:37am, Shoney’s: ME: Wow, this breakfast bar bacon is great! MALKIN: Why do you dislike pancakes? 10:32am, watching CNN together: ME: Did you see that? The guy robbed seventeen banks before they caught him. Good riddance. MALKIN: It’s a shame you’re not against child abuse. 1:15pm, shopping at The Gap: ME: God, that clerk was a real jerk. MALKIN: It’s amazing to me that you’ll condemn him, but you say nothing about the vast numbers of illegal immigrants flowing into this country. 5:41pm, walking back to the car: ME: MALKIN: Hmmm…your PC attitude keeps you from caring about rape committed by Muslims, Mr. Dhimmi.
I’m sorry, my mistake. The IHT doesn’t mention alcohol. Since it was New Year’s Eve in Nice and other French destinations, I’m sure that the rioters were teetotallers.
She’s also missing the underlying point though. She’s not trying to shame who should be shamed here (corporate controlled media), she’s using this as an attempt to bash feminism. As far as the media goes, I think anyone of any political ideology can attest to the fact that it’s shit. But why that is being added to the list as yet another thing to blame feminists for is beyond me. I’d be interested to hear where the blogger picked up the story…
Robert, I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure you get Malkin’s saying, which is that Western feminists don’t care about feminist issues outside of the United States, and only persist here to make everything worse for America. And don’t kid yourself, Robert–that is exactly what she’s saying. I’ve been reading this same “where are the feminists?” smugness on right-leaning blogs for five years now. Even when you call right-leaning pundits on it, and demonstrate that actually, feminists have been on the case, the response you get is underwhelming, to say the least.
Uh… whatever, Robert. Whether the story was buried or not shouldn’t blind you to the fact that her allegation against western feminists is bullshit. “The Argument Clinic”? Maybe you should talk to Malkin for us.
Robert, that may be what you are saying, but it certainly isn’t what Malkin is saying. She says that the question posed by Winds of Change is a good one. She’s implying that western feminists are not outraged by rape if it is committed by the “right kind” of minority.
Attention fake journalists and other pinheads who refuse to do the slightest bit of research because it doesn’t fit their political agenda. Chirping: TAKE NOTE Or does it only count when immigrant Muslims rape Western women?
Whatever her views, what is truly idiotic about her quote is that she engages in ad hominem tu quoque 🙂 She and the other blogger are doing what a lot of poeple in Blogoliciousville do: they accuse each other of hypocrisy. But, this is nothing but logical fallacy and, for mine, it’s pointless to even engage it. If you argue that sexism is wrong and then find yourself engaging in sexism, that doesn’t invalidate your argument that sexism is wrong. Your argument that sexism is wrong stands, in spite of your personal behavior — which is why it’s ad hominem and out of bounds in a rational discussion/debate. You attack an argument, not a person. Scott and Lawyers, Guns, and MOney wrote about this awhile ago. It’s a classic tactic — and unfortunately all of us use. personally, some days, I wish I could just get the left side of Blogoliciousville to all agree to stop using the tactic and stop legiimating it by responding to it in a serious way. You simply say, “Is that all ya got?” and move on. Or, my personal favorite, when people try to poison the wells of dicourse with similar ad hominem remarks, “Yes, isn’t it nice.” (Hence, the name of my blog and the reason for the photos n the masthead) To the insult, Bitch (or anything else) hurled at me in an argument, which is supposed to stand in for argument, I respond, “Yes, isn’t it nice.” It comes from a story reported in _Time_. In 1948, women forced a men’s club to disband. It existed solely for the purpose of informing women that their slip showed. With new dress styles that were in vogue, women men their comments with, “Yes, isn’t it nice.” I always remember that story whenever anyone is on about the horrors that are ‘slutty’ hooker boots and exposed navels. “Yes, isn’t it nice.”
Jeez. I did proofread that. But I think proofreading on 0 sleep is a rilly rilly bad idea. A nap sounds good, though, huh?
No offense, but why should anybody in the West express a lot of outrage by anything that happens in the Muslim world? It’s not like they’re going to pay attention to anything we say. In fact, it’s likely to have the opposite effect – admonishments not to use rape as punishment or commit honor killings by the West only serves to highlight the difference they see between “them” and “us”, a difference they very strongly feel the need to preserve. Fear of Westernization seems to be the defining characteristic of the Muslim world, at least from the imams that seem to make the papers with their statements. Violence against women in Muslim countries might as well be happening on the Moon for all the ability I have to do anything about it. It’s an outrage, sure, and I’m super-excited when Muslim women stand up for their own rights, but their culture makes it impossible for a Westerner like myself to stand up for them. And it’s virulently endemic in their culture. You might as well express outrage about the amount of salt in ocean water; it’s equally useful. I’d bend over backwards to help an abused Muslim woman in my country or culture; I’d do anything I was aware I could do. But Muslim women in Muslim countries where I’m likely to get shot, or get the woman shot simply for being seen with me, are beyond my ability to help, so what would be the purpose of my outrage? Maybe somebody can tell me what somebody like me can do for those women? It’s not clear to me what influence I have over a fundamentalist, Shari’a government or the like, or how I could possibly aid women in those cultures.
the media, both here and in Europe, don’t report/under-report on criminal behavior because of the ethnicity or religion of the perpetrators Anything to back this up other than a reflexive desire to support a fellow rightie? I mean, really, even the NYT reports loudly on ‘honor killings’ and on the underground railroad getting women out of forced marriages in Pakistan.
I don’t personally care about an extreme righty scoring points on lefties – which encompases most traditional feminists. Anyone who has been following these riots knows that this is simply the latest incident. There have been countless sexual attacks and rapes. Most happen to muslim women who dare to act “European” but quite a few French women have been attacked as well. Along side that there have been people beaten and murdered, property burned, etc. A number of the muslim women who were gang-raped were then murdered (some being burned alive). Eventually enough pressure will mount among the French and the government will actually do something besides mouth platitudes. I just read some original reports, I can read French, and I am personally shaking with anger at the fact that the French government has basically done nothing. With this train incident, the fact that the police sat by, is beyond the pale. The other passengers who sat by (there were 600 vs 20-30 unarmed bastards) should burn in Hell. The fact that they are judging the daily severity of the riots by the number burned cars (which can on some nights equal 100s) means it is passed time to send in the military. If you shoot enough of them, the others might learn some caution. If you shoot all of them, then no problem.
Hmmm…it’s the “where’s the outrage” game. OK, where was the outrage from Malkin, et al, about female genital mutilation in certain countries? (Maybe I just missed it…I’m happy to see a link or two…)This does crop up in the dreaded MSM from time to time. But I guess since the MSM doesn’t relentlessly flog every conceivable instance of wrongdoing from cultures/ethnicities/religions Malkin doesn’t like, that obviously proves their bias…
It occurs to me that what’s more ridiculous than Malkin’s characterizations is Lauren making the characterization that Malkin believes “rape is worse when Muslims do it.”
Thank you for validating my response when I saw that post on Malkin’s site. Its not the first time that I’ve seen conservatives write, “where’s the outrage by feminists”…(over whatever horror they’ve plucked out of the news. oh please From the time I was in college, the only venues that spoke about the conditions of women around the world were feminist publications. Not mainstream media, and certainly not conservative media/pundits. She doesn’t give a rats ass about those women. If she did, she wouldn’t be trying to use them as a “gotcha” against western feminists who had nothing to do with what happened. So sad, all that energy channeled for negatives.
She doesn’t give a rats ass about those women. If she did, she wouldn’t be trying to use them as a “gotcha” against western feminists who had nothing to do with what happened. Exactly. Where’s the outrage, indeed. She isn’t taking the high road. She’s essentially saying, I don’t care about these women, but neither do the so-called feminists. It’s shameful.
Well, there really are certain non-feminist liberals who respond to every attempt to raise awareness about non-American abuses of women’s rights with “Why do you hate those (non-whites, non-Americans, Muslims)?” See Metafilter every time someone posts about something like this; a lot of the left views worldwide gender inequality as some kind of right-wing wedge issue to demonize non-Western cultures by stealth. To someone like Malkin, liberals = feminists, so it becomes “Why don’t feminists care?”, but if you replace “feminists” with “some liberals”, she does have something of a point.