You know what would be cool? June 28, 2011 Jill If we could review a woman’s album without giving credit to dudes in every single paragraph.
Wow. That review could read exactly the same if Beyoncé hadn’t sung a note of it. It’s like she wasn’t there at all for this reviewer. (Ever read the Stone Diaries by Carol Shields? The main character is written out of her own story–we don’t even learn her name, not directly.)
“singing her guts out while family and friends look on in quiet awe…superhumanly talented Beyoncé’s more-than-capable and still-in-love hands…mainlined vocals quickly dismiss mere logistics …The song boasts some of her finest-ever singing laid over a bed of warm and flowing synths, strings, and bass that manages to connect the dots between Sam Cooke and Prince without sacrificing any Beyoncé-ness…Beyoncé is aiming…the song has Beyoncé finding the strength in two as she sings…Unsurprisingly, “I Was Here” is the only cut on the record that wasn’t co-written by Beyoncé herself, too…one of the world’s biggest stars exploring her talent in ways few could’ve predicted, which is always exciting…If anyone can make a quiet Friday night come off like an open-bar blowout, it’s Beyoncé.” It seems a little disingenuous to criticise a review for mentioning co-producers and co-writers on an album by a pop star who blatantly doesn’t solely write or produce her own songs. She’s obviously massively talented and that is talked about at great length in the review but you can’t criticise a music website for acknowledging the other forces that are at work in crafting incredible pop music. Beyonce songs without the amazing samples and production and riffs and arrangements would be nowhere near as good and all that stuff doesn’t just come from her. Reviews of women’s albums that don’t give credit to dudes in every paragraph: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/a lbums/9616-ys/ http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14075-i-speak-because-i-can/ http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/15544-marissa-nadler/ http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/9909-the-deep-blue/
You know what would be cool? Talking about women’s soccer without having to talk about how their uniforms look! http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/U-S-play-Women-8217-s-World-Cup-in-kits-resemb?urn=sow-wp2837
It’s just more of that female as empty vessel/muse crap, never as actual creator. Note how Dianne Warren is just dismissed as a ‘schlockmeister’. Very telling compared to the tongue bathing they give to every other man mentioned in the review. P.S Beyonce is a bit reminiscent of Theo Kogan of the Lunachicks on the album cover. Now there’s another group of women who never got the credit they deserved.
Jay-z records Beyonce singing in the bathroom without her knowledge and all of a sudden he’s a genius? Um, no. Plus, I’ve seen the video. Really nothing to write home about.
Safiya Outlines: P.S Beyonce is a bit reminiscent of Theo Kogan of the Lunachicks on the album cover. Now there’s another group of women who never got the credit they deserved. Oh, I hearts the Lunachicks, Evah So Much.
About a million years ago, Rolling Stone did an interview with Linda Ronstadt, who’d just released a new album of Mexican folk songs, and the interviewer totally wanted to focus on how she was influenced by Gram Parsons. Parsons, who by that time had been dead more than a decade, last worked with LR twenty years prior to said interview. LR had since recorded rock, pop, jazz, standards, Gilbert & Sullivan, and now, the Canciones stuff. She got increasingly prickly over the course of the questioning, trying to point out that although GP was an early influence, she’d done a.lot.of.shit since in which he’d played no part, and wouldn’t it be nice to discuss some of that. The interviewer got all “Whattsamatter? Dontchu wanna give props to Gram? He was really good! And he’s dead now! So let’s talk about him!”, she ended the interview, and the headline read something to the effect of “Linda Ronstadt was a bitch to our interviewer, who does she think she is?” (but shorter and headliney-er) Plus ça change….
Aitch: It seems a little disingenuous to criticise a review for mentioning co-producers and co-writers on an album by a pop star who blatantly doesn’t solely write or produce her own songs. She’s obviously massively talented and that is talked about at great length in the review but you can’t criticise a music website for acknowledging the other forces that are at work in crafting incredible pop music. Beyonce songs without the amazing samples and production and riffs and arrangements would be nowhere near as good and all that stuff doesn’t just come from her. As a musician, (and specifically as an instrumentalist who has often been lost behind a vocalist), I can get behind this. Perhaps a better question than “why are these men being acknowledged” is “Why aren’t there more women working in these men’s positions?” Why aren’t there more female producers, and writers, etc.? Or are there, but not in this genre?
Seems like the people here don’t really know much about music. As a person who understands the music industry pretty well, I can’t see why you think its weird that they go over not only the producers and co-writers, but also the influences of Beyonce. Further this piece is about the album, not precisely Beyonce, and all of the information, from a music industry perspective, is relevant. I’ve seen a similar piece on dozens if not more male bands, and it constantly talks about producers and co writers and influences and how such and such band would have crashed and burned if such and such producer hadn’t known when to allow them free creative rein and when not to. This is why people constantly complain that feminists are obsessed with their ideology and are divorced from reality. The original poster and several of the commentators never even considered that maybe there was a reason the article was written as it was, that it had nothing to do with her gender, and that it was perfectly representative of this type of article on a performer. Yes, the music industry is dominated by white males to a large degree. And so it seems like a lot of these people in there are men. But they weren’t saying oh look at all these men who made Beyonce what she is, they were saying and these are all the people that collaborated with Beyonce on this effort. Complain about an actual problem if you want, but don’t just speculate wildly on something you clearly aren’t very well versed in.
Complain about an actual problem if you want, but don’t just speculate wildly on something you clearly aren’t very well versed in. How about you do the same, since you have no idea how “well-versed” I am when it comes to music journalism and the music industry?
Matt: This is why people constantly complain that feminists are obsessed with their ideology and are divorced from reality. hahahahahahahaha
Matt: I’ve seen a similar piece on dozens if not more male bands, and it constantly talks about producers and co writers and influences and how such and such band would have crashed and burned if such and such producer hadn’t known when to allow them free creative rein and when not to. So it’s not just women who have a whole team of men behind them, but also men who have a whole team of men behind them? Oh okay then, guess everything’s all better. Move along, feminists, nothing to see here. This is why people constantly complain that feminists are obsessed with their ideology and are divorced from reality. The original poster and several of the commentators never even considered that maybe there was a reason the article was written as it was, that it had nothing to do with her gender, and that it was perfectly representative of this type of article on a performer. As a musician and as a feminist I feel I have to tell you that you completely missed the point. Maybe the article wasn’t about the fact that she was a woman, and maybe there are just as many men behind other men as there are behind women in the industry. But why the fuck is it just men, men, men in these positions? Do you think that’s worth talking about?
Even worse when read alongside this Slant review, which is the worst review in the history of music AND journalism AND gender. “Please direct all professional reviews to my partner; also, please beat a gross birthing metaphor to death and talk about my cervix” -Beyonce http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/review/beyonce-4/2529
Shh, stop being mean to the poor sexist mansplainers. They are men and they don’t have time for the silly lady things. They only care about problems that affect them, ie, mens’ stuff and explaining to you silly wimminfolk that you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
This is why people constantly complain that mansplainers are a little oblivious and are divorced from reality.
…manages to connect the dots between Sam Cooke and Prince without sacrificing any Beyoncé-ness… Yeah, real disingenuous of ya to worry about things that aren’t really a problem, Jill! And I’m so glad Matt stopped by. It’s just not a feminist thread without a generous mansplainer. Oh, DUDE! Thaaaaaaaaank you! We are sooooo stupid! (bats eyelashes)
Why isn’t Matt banned yet? He’s a mamsplaining arse on Every. Single. Thread. That’s when he’s not telling us what we should be talking about.
Safiya Outlines: Why isn’t Matt banned yet? He’s a mamsplaining arse on Every. Single. Thread. That’s when he’s not telling us what we should be talking about. Because the mods are hoping he’ll spout something truly comical that will put him in the running for Feministe’s Next Top Troll? Matt, sugardumpling, though this may deeply gall you, many of the women you’re talking down to are in fact musicians or otherwise work within the music industry and thus do, in fact, know how this crap works. So! In the interest of not making yourself look any more clueless, how about you take your mansplaination and stick it right up your vast font of manly-man-no-giurls-allowed wisdom, hmm?
tinfoil hattie: …manages to connect the dots between Sam Cooke and Prince without sacrificing any Beyoncé-ness…Yeah, real disingenuous of ya to worry about things that aren’t really a problem, Jill!P> I do think it’s a real problem that the music industry is dominated by white middle class men. And Beyonce is tackling it to some extent with her all-female, all-black backing singers and band, who fucking owned it at Glastonbury, and perhaps the review should have mentioned them, although I don’t know if they recorded the album with her…but anyway I do think the review gave Beyonce credit for the work she did. Maybe it’s easier for the male-dominated music industry to allow those insanely talented women to perform on stage with her, but not to allow women to make it as producers/writers behind the scenes. But maybe I was misinterpreting the post and she didn’t mean that the review shouldn’t have mentioned the producers, but rather that wouldn’t it be great if not all the producers were men…yeah in hindsight that seems more likely. Doy.
But maybe I was misinterpreting the post and she didn’t mean that the review shouldn’t have mentioned the producers, but rather that wouldn’t it be great if not all the producers were men…yeah in hindsight that seems more likely. Doy. You weren’t misreading, exactly. Yes, it would be great if not all the producers were men — that would be hard, though, as you mention, because the music industry is so male-dominated. What bugged me about the review wasn’t that it mentioned the producers. Of course it should mention the producers! Most reviews do. But look at this Kanye review as a comparison. Yes, it mentions the producers and the other people on the album, as it should. It also talks a lot about Kanye himself, and his persona, and his strategy for releasing the record, the details of various songs, etc etc. It’s centered on him. The Beyonce review is basically, “Look who made this record for her.”
I’ve seen a similar piece on dozens if not more male bands, Oh, well then it shouldn’t be a problem for you to provide links, no? Look Matt, I’ve been reading the music press for about forty years now, and while it’s common to note a musician’s influence in reviews, this particular review was way over the top in name-dropping—it didn’t just mention collaborators on the project, but just about every (mostly male) musician that evoked a memory in the reviewer. I didn’t learn much about the music by reading this review—mostly, I learned about which musicians (other than Beyonce) the reviewer appreciates. It seems like the reviewer’s goal was to name-drop in order to get music nerd cred, and that a lot more time was spent reading the liner notes than listening to the album.
Right. It doesn’t bother me that the review talks about who helped produce the album, etc — that’s standard. But EVERYTHING was centered around How A Dude Did Something. Production is one thing; several paragraphs about how her marriage to Jay-Z was the inspiration for the album is another, and opening the review by focusing on this awesome video that Jay-Z made, and quoting her husband’s awesome website (why?), and then reminding the reader again and again that the album is really about Jay-Z and their relationship (mentioning her “codependence” and calling The Dream her “other invaluable partner”).
@Matt: as a woman who first sat down at a piano in 1970 years ago and picked up my first guitar in 1976, was in bands in the 80s and has been reading the music press since about 1971 (all these things since long before you were even born, I’m guessing) I say to you sincerely, “Shut the fuck up.” Don’t assume what we do or do not know, because it’s likely that a goodly number of us here know a fuck of a lot more about it than you do.
Marisa: http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/review/beyonce-4/2529 I don’t know what I was expecting from your lead-in, but I wasn’t expecting the ‘review’ to start with “Memo to Jay-Z: Beyonce is probably about to start poking pinholes in your condoms.” And I definitely wasn’t expecting it to get even worse somehow. Memo to Eric Henderson: If the least offensive thing about your review is your tortured metaphor, you might be in the wrong biz.