In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set || First feminist blog on the internet

Tuesday True Blood Roundtable: It Hurts Me Too

Lauren

SPOILERS BELOW.

A young redheaded vampire, Jessica, looks on with fear and trepidation as an mean older vampire, Franklin, questions her in her living room. A scene from the latest episode of True Blood.

This week on True Blood, we are introduced to a new Nice Guy Werewolf, ponder the paternal lineage of Arlene’s baby, and hate on Bill for his misogynist extracurricular activities. Enjoy the discussion and add your own thoughts in the comments.

This episode was mostly about Bill and Lorena’s history and how Bill mourns the loss of his humanity, a theme for his character throughout the series. Bill says that to love Sookie is to leave her. Lorena says she still loves Bill, but as for Bill, uh, there’s a lot of anger there. Dysfunctional love triangle, no?

LAUREN: This episode was clearly more about setting up the story for the season than playing out any existing story lines. And man, I don’t even care about Lorena that much. DO. NOT. CARE. The character doesn’t hold my attention, and I don’t care about Bill so I certainly don’t care about this lady that torments him. And I think it would be swell if Sookie got with someone else because BILL IS BORING AS HELL. The most exciting thing about him is his pea coat collection.

SALLY: And here I was thinking there was something wrong with me for not being into this character. She’s boring and really weird, in a way that I can’t really put into words. I can’t tell if it’s her as an actress or the character or what, but I don’t like it…

And Bill is just getting more boring by the episode, isn’t he? Generally throughout the series, he’s had low points and high points, and there’s a certain swinging of the pendulum, but it hasn’t swung towards the high in quite a while.

And another thing, is this going to become another Lost-like love polygon? Because I’m already too wrapped up in the potential of Sookie-Eric to care that there’s now a Bill-Lorena angle here. Sexy sex vs. boring boredom? There’s a clear winner here, folks.

This episode was also a further introduction to the werewolves, in particular to Alcide, whom Eric slated to accompany Sookie on her trip to Mississippi. We also discovered that this handsome wolf’s heart is tied up with his ex-girlfriend, Debbie, whom we found out is getting engaged to one of the bad guys.

LAUREN: Alcide? Yawn, dude. I guess he’s yet another guy that Sookie may or may not hook up with, but I’m going to be all mad when he gets in the way of Mr. Northman. Also, I’m putting ten bucks on Jason’s third season love interest being Alcide’s ex, Debbie.

SALLY: So… I am confused. Is this guy supposed to be scary, aloof, creepy, sexy, or… what exactly? I couldn’t tell if he was supposed to be aloof, or if he just wasn’t exciting. Am I expecting too much from him? He’s nice to look at, but the entire scene at Sookie’s – heck, even him running up to her to stop her from running away – I was just wondering who he was, where he came from, and why anyone would think he was dangerous. Seems rather wimpy to me.

This does not bode well for the werewolves to come, does it?

LAUREN: I don’t want Nice Guy Werewolves, I want my werewolves to hang out in leather bars with punny names like Lou Pine’s. (I LOLed.)

SALLY: Hehehe. I also kinda love that all you need to end a potential brawl is a baseball bat. Werewolves are just like you and me.

Tara’s new love interest, Franklin, also appears to be a bad guy. Can Tara catch a break? Who does Franklin work for and why is he so interested in Bill Compton?

LAUREN: I was intrigued with this character in the beginning of the episode, when he was being kind to Tara, and even when he was extracting information from Jessica. By the end of the episode though, it seems like this guy has a nasty streak a mile wide.

SALLY: Franklin is bugging me. (Of course, part of this is because I keep saying “Forny, what are you doing being so mean?!” but still.) I don’t see why we need to bring even more drama Tara’s way. I also wonder how long their pairing will last, considering it’s obvious that the only reason he spoke to her in the first place was because of his interest in getting to Sookie.

LAUREN: You think? To me he seemed pissed that he wasn’t privy to Tara and Sookie’s friendship.

SALLY: Hmm, I suppose, but I looked at it more as he didn’t realize how close they actually were, not that he didn’t know they knew each other at all. But I might be reading into that a bit much, so who knows.

LAUREN: I do have to say, I’m still bothered with the way Tara’s character is being handled in the story. Tara (thanks to actor Rutina Wesley) has a ton of potential as a character, but her story line so far has just been a series of lows. If a character can’t get a break, can a character develop? Isn’t it about time Tara gets a victory? One that involves more than weird eye-fluttering, cow-mooing vampire sex?

SALLY: Yes to this! Why doesn’t her character ever grow or become interested in anything meaningful?

I mean, I guess character development has its own time and place on this series, right? Jason “grew” last season, but he seems completely the same person now. The only thing really affecting him at the moment is killing Eggs.

LAUREN: Yes. I’m ready for Jason’s hallucinations to be resolved soon.

Arlene is pregnant and Terry is not the father. Jason scratched the deputy itch and found it unsatisfying, for now anyway. Sam’s new family is serious trouble and may have ulterior motives. Eric is smothering Lafayette with lavish gifts. Where are these side stories going?

SALLY: Oh Terry, how cute are you with your excitement of being a father! Too bad you aren’t…

LAUREN: Who the EFF is Arlene’s babydaddy?

SALLY: No clue, Lauren, no clue. I’m hoping it’s somebody new and exciting. OR, the sheriff. Cuz the hell would see that one coming, right?!

As for the other side stories, I have no idea where they’re going, though I think the most intriguing one is Eric/Lafayette. It seems pretty clear that Lafayette does need to get rid of the rest of the blood and I’m not entirely sure how much easier that’ll be simply because Eric decides to start giving out cars and such.

LAUREN: If Eric showed up to insult my house and give me a nice car, I wouldn’t turn him away.

SALLY: Nor would I. But that’s probably because I’d be too busy trying to get him to have sex with me in said car, so, I don’t know.

As for the other storylines, I’m already bored with Jason’s storyline, though that’s not really anything new. He’s a fun character, but even last season with the importance of his storyline, it wasn’t entertaining enough for me.

LAUREN: Yeah, Jason was just kind of a dick until the show writers figured out a way to make his ignorance funny, and last season’s The A-Team gig was good stuff.

SALLY: Sam… He needs to kick that family to the curb. I hope the annoying brother ends up helping him out in the end.

LAUREN: I said it last time, but it seems like Sam is the writers’ golden ticket out of whatever narrative mess they’ve made. They sort of dangle his story along and fold it into the season resolution, whatever that may be.

The last scene was… It was… I don’t know what that was. Discuss.

LAUREN: I seriously don’t know what to say about that scene. It borrowed special effects from a Goldie Hawn movie? It was the epitome of a “hate fuck”? I imagine it will be, um, controversial?

SALLY: *sigh* This scene was just… so… ugh. I mean, was it really necessary? I was slightly disturbed by it, especially when she said that she still loves him. She really freaks me out, I don’t know what to make of her character. Meanwhile, Bill needs to not have sex with vampires if that’s what it’s going to be like. I mean, why have sex with her anyway?

LAUREN: So I’m just going to throw it out there. There is some controversy on the fan reaction sites as to whether or not the final scene of this episode was a rape scene. I have a lot of mixed feelings about the scene BECAUSE it was so over the top violent, and yet so wacky-violent with the 180 degree head-turn that it screamed of “Death Becomes Her” camp and B-movie horror. There are also, thanks to the vampire hierarchy and the love story behind Bill and Lorena, some serious power issues coming to play. The scene was, in my humble opinion, misogynist as FUCK, but wasn’t rape.

That’s not to erase or undo the problematic way the Bill-Lorena relationship has been handled, a relationship that is at its core about the manipulation of consent. But now we have a primary character who has violently abused an intimate partner more than once that we’re also supposed to accept as a tragic hero.

Tell me if this is a stretch. I have a hard time dissecting the sexual nuances of vampires.

SALLY: I think the power dynamic is the real issue here. Yes, she clearly wanted to have sex with him – she kept saying as much leading up to and during the act. But it’s also quite clear that even though she’s older as a vampire (whatever weight that holds – sometimes it seems to matter, sometimes not so much), Bill’s got the power here.

I guess that’s what kept bothering me the most during this scene. Yes, the violence was weirdly over-the-top (maybe purposely so? borderline campy, perhaps? so odd…), and it wasn’t rape because I guess they both wanted it, but geez louise, are there weird power issues here.

I think part of the problem is that, even though we know at least some of their history, what we do know doesn’t seem to warrant the incredible hatred he seems to feel for her. Is that just me?? Like, okay, she taught you that you can’t love humans and she was right, or something, but REALLY, BILL?!

Ugh, now I just dislike Bill even more. I’m annoyed by this development.

LAUREN: Right. Dude, it was a bad breakup. Get your hair done, travel the world in your pea coat collection, suck on some nice human’s femoral artery, and get over it.

Another thing that bothers me is the choice the writers made in depicting his hatred of (i.e. abuse of) Lorena, because sexual violence and immolation are two socially accepted, and if not “accepted,” then two socially codified ways of putting women in their place. There’s no debate — that was Bill’s intent for Lorena, and it completely changes the game.

38 thoughts on Tuesday True Blood Roundtable: It Hurts Me Too

  1. First of all, I am SO GLAD that Feministe is discussing this show!!!

    Who the EFF is Arlene’s babydaddy?

    Given the show’s compressed timeline (two or three months since the show started), I’m assuming it’s Rene.

    (Of course, part of this is because I keep saying “Forny, what are you doing being so mean?!” but still.)

    LOL yes. As a huge costume drama geek (and I also love Where the Heart Is), I adore James Frain (I watch the show with other costume drama geeks and we always yell out “JAAAAAMES FRAAAAIN” whenever he comes onscreen), but the severed head puppet show really squicked me.

    Yes, she clearly wanted to have sex with him – she kept saying as much leading up to and during the act. But it’s also quite clear that even though she’s older as a vampire (whatever weight that holds – sometimes it seems to matter, sometimes not so much), Bill’s got the power here.

    Well, the show’s indicated (although never really clarified) that a vampire is physically incapable of disobeying a direct command from his or her maker. Which further complicates the idea of consent there.

  2. two notes:

    1) I’m pretty sure Arlene’s babbydaddy was her husband/serial killer Rene from Season One.

    2) I’m pretty sure the last scene was a rape scene, but Bill was the victim. If you rewatch closely, it’s garden variety “vampires fighting” scene, with Bill physically rejecting her kiss near the wall, throwing on the bed and biting her. Then, she says to him, “Make love to me”, but you’ve got to remember, as his maker, she’s able to physically compel him by giving him an order. (We’ve seen Bill use this on Jessica, and elsewhere in the series).

    His immediate response is to say, “No, I will never”, as he is taking off her clothes in a strangely jerky manner. You could interpret that as “I won’t ‘make love’ to you, but I’ll have rough sex,” but upon rewatch, I’m pretty sure it’s going to shake out that she ordered him to have sex with her against his will, and he was physically incapable of refusing. However, he could fight back (even as he obeyed) by turning her head – both as a futile form of lashing back, and as a method for not having to look at her while she (in a mind/body control way) was raping him.

    We’ll have to see if it’s confirmed next week, but if her ‘request’ to make love to her was in fact an unrefusable order, it makes the scene a lot more interesting, I think.

  3. So… I don’t get the hate fuck thing, and by that I mean not the specific scene but its whole place in literature and the culture. I just don’t get it. Maybe it makes sense to some folks because they experience things differently than me. I certainly want to fuck and to play with people I feel some competetive friction with. I don’t want to fuck or play with people who have betrayed me, people who I resent and distrust, people I loathe or people I want to do violence to. It seems that fictional characters really, really want sex with people they also really, really hate. I … just do not get this. Is this a trope that really draws from writers’ experiences, or is this something that has snowballed largely within fiction and created its own tradition?

    Bill fucking Lorena when he is supposed to be monogamous to Sookie is not okay. He should keep his promises. Eric and Pam and Lafayette don’t go around making promises to be monogamous; they’re not going to keep them! They know it! Bill, OTOH, mainly shows the last remnants of his poor lost humanity through his failings. He’s full of himself and he’s full of shit and he fails the people around him because he can’t level with himself. He should have just said to Jessica, “Look, you can’t learn how to be a vampire from me — I didn’t choose to make you and I didn’t want to, and all you can learn from me is how to be a vampire who’d rather be human.”

    I am so done with Bill.

    Tara will suffer endlessly, again, and show her strength through endurance of the heartbreaking and unendurable. This sucks. They have to find something better for Tara than perpetual victimhood. I would love another go-round between Sam and Tara. They’re both so guarded, for some of the same reasons, and so if they can get past the defenses, they can really understand each other. They can, and should fuck, but only like porcupines: slowly and carefully.

    I agree that Jason has reverted to a one-note joke, even as Andy has expanded into a more well-rounded character with interesting flaws. They keep Jason around for his abs; he’s not even good comic relief anymore. The schtick of him getting in trouble because he’s an idiot and doesn’t know better worked for a while, but now it’s been done and they can’t go to that well over and over. They need to get creative or move him out of the way for a while.

    Jessica and Hoyt have a lot of potential and unlike Tara, Sam and Jason I think they will actually do interesting things there.

    Eric buttering up Lafayette is the most encouraging development yet. Eric knows that Lafayette hates and fears him for very good reasons. Eric isn’t nice to people for validation; he now has a reason to show Lafayette that there’s some carrot, as well as some stick, to that relationship, and it isn’t just selling V. Eric needs something that neither Lafayette nor I can see yet, and he’s laying the groundwork to get Lafayette to do something for him that he can’t get him to do by scaring him. I can’t wait to find out what it is. I’ll pick a spot in the pool, though, and say that it will involve Lafayette seducing a werewolf. I’m not sure, but that’s my guess. (Which will be hoooooot.)

  4. There are some scenes in True Blood that do squeak me out. For instance, I almost didn’t make it through the first episode with the soft core porn aspect to it. Since then, I haven’t really had too much of a problem with many of the sexual moments on this show. But WOW. I did not like the ending of this episode at all. There were a lot of good things in this episode, but I felt that the ending scene negated what was a fairly enjoyable episode for me. I suppose it wasn’t rape (she wanted it), but when you watch it, the scene is played as a rape scene. I suppose it seemed a bit like the Tara/Eggs scenes last season, but other than the fact that I thought Eggs was a bore, those moments didn’t bother me.

    On things I liked: Eggs’s funeral was very sweet. It’s nice to see Sookie and Tara trying to actually be friends. I’m also going to disagree about Bill’s character. He gets me more interesting away from Sookie, and now that he’s been such a dick, I feel fine about not liking him. He makes a better villain than Sookie’s main love interest right now.

  5. Only one comment on this – Bill is the new Jack and we all start to hate him, thank you very much.

    About the show… it irritates me on moments how completely powerless all female characters are. Even if they are vampires and so on, they are still weaker, hold less power and are dominated.
    Maybe I read too much in the show (or there is just no other way, since we have vampires, werewolves and other monsters).
    There was one other series about vampires – Anita Blake, while there were lots of issues, I loved how kickass and unapologetic she is, quite the dominant figure, besides being chased and dealing with monsters, zombies, and whatever else.

    🙂

  6. Rene is Arlene’s baby’s daddy. Which is why it’s better that Terry’s so happy (although of course that’s going to be a problem later, I’m sure). No one wants a dead serial killer…and they’re sure not easy to collect child support from.

  7. I really enjoyed this episode, until the end. The head twisting thing was really creepy and super-misogynist, just like Bill.

  8. Agreed on all counts!

    I really like Tara and I hate that every time we turn around she’s getting mind-fucked by every supernatural that strolls into town.

    Also, I was seriously disturbed by the last scene. I mean, violence – even over the top violence – can sometimes add to the story. But that really really didn’t. Did we learn anything? Not really – we already knew Bill had a completely fucked up relationship with Lorena. True Blood has a lot of dark sexual sins on the books – not sure why they felt some form of snuff porn was necessary as well.

    On the issue of consent I think it is pretty clear that regardless of Lorena’s willing participation Bill’s intent was to rape her – he tried to turn a (mostly) consensual sexual encounter into something she would regret and wish she hadn’t pursued. Whether he was successful is up for discussion – but it was definitely skeevy as hell.

  9. sherunslunatic, I also thought René. In fact, I thought that was obvious that’s where the show is going. And I think it will be interesting – I’m looking forward to some conflicted Arlene, I am curious to see if the actor can handle it.

    But you are wrong about Bill being unable to disobey Lorena. In a flashback during Season 2, Lorena “released” him. She no longer has any real authority over him (although she is more powerful physically). So the maker/progeny bond is broken in their case.

    And so I don’t think it’s inconsistent that he overpowers her during that scene. Yes, she is physically stronger, but she was egging him on. She wanted it. She wanted to be hate-fucked.

    I agree that the scene was weird and over-the-top and kind of unnecessary; True Blood doesn’t need to throw scenes around for shock value. The story is compelling enough without introducing meaningless gore, and that’s what that was. However I think I’m in the minority here that I’m actually looking forward to the Bill-Lorena story arc; Bill is, indeed, way too boring. Now he’s a little more interesting. He can be mean. He can be vicious. He can be weak. I like that.

    I also think I’m the only person in the world who does NOT want to see Sookie and Eric hook up! I mean, if they bang once or twice that would be delightful because oh my god the sexiness, but she deserves better than that shithead. Honestly I don’t think there’s been a guy on the show yet that I really want to see Sookie truly commit to. Bill is boring (but now maybe a little more interesting), Eric is an asshole, Sam is pathetic. Sookie is awesome. Hands-down, no-question, completely awesome. She deserves an awesome guy.

    I hope they don’t drag on the Tara-Franklin thing too long. Tara’s been a victim forever. She needs a victory, I 100% agree with that, or else this will be Season 2 all over again; Tara’s constant hypnosis leading to a dishonest relationship. YAWN. Tara was so strong and independent in the first few episodes of Season 1; I want that Tara back.

    Also, Lafayette and Eric need to get it on. Yum.

  10. Lafayette will willingly fuck Eric when hell freezes over and Satan rides through Bontemps on a Zamboni. Lafayette is enough of a survivor to do whatever he has to do, but he hates Eric for what he did, right down to the tough, spring-steel core that got him this far. Lafayette would only fuck Eric if he was totally cornered and had no other way out. If the writers don’t understand that, they don’t understand their own character.

  11. I guess I am in the minority. I find Bill (and the exploration of his lost humanity) interesting. I kinda dig how Bill has been de-humanized/stigmatized and yearns the loss so much that he refuses to even consider turning Sookie into a vampire. To the extent Elena brings this exploration out, I’m for it.

    I do find the Bill and Sookie love affair to be boring…but I find Sookie to be boring herself. A Sookie and Eric love affair would be equally boring to me (it would just be an upgrade on looks I guess for Sookie according to the comments here). I actually can’t understand why every male human (not named Lafeyette), vamp, werewolf, shiftshaper, etc in bon temps is in love with her.

  12. @Thomas re: Lafayette will willingly fuck Eric when hell freezes over and Satan rides through Bontemps on a Zamboni.

    Agree x10000. I mean I like nice man candy gettin it on as much as the next person, but no, just NO. Lafayette is a survivor, he does not take shit he doesn’t have to, and he loves himself enough to just NOT GO THERE no matter how many vamp-blood-fueled sex dreams he may have.

    That being said though, I love their interactions and am def interested in what they’re going to go with this weird kind of partnership they’ve got going. I think they’re two of the better actors on the cast and they have a lot of chemistry together, and I want more interaction, just not SEXUAL interaction.

  13. Yes, she has ‘released’ him – but does that mean he is no longer under her command? That was not my understanding. I thought that ‘releasing’ him meant he no longer had to live with her and serve her.

    In the CH books, there is no way to remove the physical power makers have over their ‘children’. This has yet to be addressed in the show, I suppose.

    I agree with the earlier poster who noted that Bill shouts out “Never!” after Lorena says, “Make love to me,” indicating to me that he is being compelled against his will.

  14. Pingback: That Time True Blood Made Me Safeword « Res Ipsa Etc.

  15. They are monsters and behave like monsters. I don’t get why everyone seems to get attached to these characters and care about them. They are suppsoed to be creatures of evil and thus do bad things – really really bad things. Perhaps the writers are having a bit of fun creating loveable monsters and getting folks to fall for them – but I hate them all and am praying for a vampire/werewolf slayer to take these undead beasts out.

  16. It wasn’t rape. But only because Lorena fucked up Bill’s angry-hate-fuck-powertrip-humliation jam, by actually being into it. So he wanted to rape her, disempower her, dehumanise her, but she wants to give him whatever he wants, so he’s still angry because it didn’t work.

  17. I tend to agree with anonninon and Tricky regarding the final scene (which left me with a ‘wtf’ feeling). I’m not sure what Lorena releasing Bill means exactly- mainly that he didn’t have to live with her and partner with her, perhaps? But it seems like ALL older vampires have control over ALL younger vampires (Godric controlled pretty much everyone, and during the scene in which he was rebuked and demoted, Eric said to fight… that he didn’t have to adhere to the t.v. spokeswoman). The King of Louisiana appears to compel Bill to a degree (how many times did he say ‘put your [stupid] fangs away’?) and the Queen certainly exerts considerable control over Eric (that crotch grab was vicious!)

    I’m hoping we’ll learn a lot more about vampire hierarchies this season. And I think Lorena still has some control over Bill.

  18. eli: I’m not sure Lorena wants to give Bill whatever he wants. I think she wants Bill to engage in the kinds of extreme violence he did when they were together, and just doesn’t really care who the violence is inflicted upon. I think, despite Bill’s attempts to hurt Lorena in this scene, we’re meant to read it as a victory for her, because he’s engaging in violence he can’t even attempt to justify with his weird chivalric murder gimmick.

  19. If Bill experiences compulsion to obey his maker’s command even though she’s released him, then that’s rape. In which case any damage he did to her is both justified and laudible. If she can order him to fuck her, she absolutely may not ethically do so over his objection. If true, Bill’s a rape survivor and should be treated as such.

  20. @Henry: (was that satire? Cuz…huh?!)
    Are they all evil though? Are Pam and Eric really classified as “evil” in this verse? That’s not to say they haven’t done bad things…but so have just about all the human characters as well. Not to be too serious about fictional creatures here, but making a blanket statement about an entire species seems more than a bit problematic doesn’t it? Look back at the vampire Jason and (forget her name) had trapped in the basement. Was he evil? No. He was a lonely, sad vamp.
    “Vampire” doesn’t instantly translate to evil. Hell, almost every verse with vampires as regular characters has managed to show off at least one “good” vampire at some point or other.
    Generalizations: never of the good.

    As far as the final scene goes: I’m holding off judgment till we see the aftermath. As it stands, and as far as my understanding of the mythos goes, the argument that Bill was the victim seems stronger. Which is mildly bothersome considering I can’t stand Bill and don’t want to wind up feeling badly for him.

  21. I do indeed agree that Lafayette and Eric would be completely terrible from a plot perspective. When I said they need to get it on, that was just a silly “omg that would be SO HOT” joke. I wouldn’t actually support that in the plot.

    But then, that’s why I’m always mystified by this campaign for Sookie and Eric. Let’s remember that Lafayette is her friend, and what Eric did to him was completely brutal. Plus, he sexually harrasses her constantly, he tricked her into drinking his blood, he charged her boyfriend with a crime for saving her life, he treats humans like his blow-up dolls and glamours them mercilessly just for fun (and seriously hurting their brains); why, exactly, should we want a character as strong and proud and amazing as Sookie to get involved with this complete asshat? Yes, it would be sexy, so let’s let it happen more often in dream sequences, but nothing more. 🙂

    @Tricky: I am now really intrigued by this Lorena and Bill thing. You’ve made me rethink my interpretation. I thought that by “releasing” him it meant she was giving him free will, but maybe not? It definitely explains his “Never!” and all that jazz. And that turns the whole hate-fuck into a different dynamic. Maybe he is indeed a rape victim. And the head-twisting was just his expression of rage that this was happening to him.

    OH MY GOD NEXT EPISODE NOW!

  22. But it’s also quite clear that even though she’s older as a vampire (whatever weight that holds – sometimes it seems to matter, sometimes not so much), Bill’s got the power here.
    Not so much. In TB lore, the older the vampire is, the stronger they become. Bill doesn’t really have any power that Lorena isn’t allowing him to use.

    The actress comments on this:
    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/popwrap/mariana_klaveno_talks_about_that_fMwmw06GzmurZhHSS9xyDO
    “…because that’s the side of him that excites her. The side Lorena feels she created. The darker he turns, the more she feels like he’s coming back to her, so as messed up as it is for me as an actor – getting violated and brutalized – there’s actually a lot of power in that for her. She feels like her influence is getting stronger and returning. ”

    jdelacroix
    I actually can’t understand why every male human (not named Lafeyette), vamp, werewolf, shiftshaper, etc in bon temps is in love with her.
    There is a reason for this that is supposed to be explained this season…I think this season.

  23. @Nicki

    Word, out of context they would be extremely extremely hot.

    I’m glad there are other people here who aren’t on the Eric/Sookie bandwagon as well. I mean maybe I could see Sookie sleeping with him, like say after she finds out her sort of fiance is hatefucking/being raped by/raping his maker or about the whole creepy Sookie-style dossier he has on her and she’s distraught and Eric swoops in to manipulate the situation to his advantage, or I could even buy her seeking him out because she wants to hurt Bill. But not a relationship. I don’t get the TRU WUV crowd at all. I do NOT want an in love Eric, I really don’t want to see him go down the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassDecay"Badass Decay road. Especially not this early in the series and definitely not for Sookie =/

  25. I watched this episode on a vacation with my inlaws. mr. biscuit’s two grandmothers were in the room with me the entire time. I knew the show was going to be racy, but since the entire family had just watched “Entourage” and at least one of the grandmothers is really into “The Bachelorette,” I wasn’t too concerned…

    …by the time I realized what was going on in that last scene and recovered enough to reach for the remote, it was too late. I can only thank God that mr. biscuit’s dad (who had already made a handful of “hilarious” jokes to his son about fearing to sleep next to a woman who enjoys this show) had already gone to bed. Nothing says “family” like head-twisty vampire rape shenanigans.

  26. I find it interesting, and weird and disturbing that this can only be rape/not rape based on whether SHE wanted it. He CLEARLY didn’t want it, he said no several times and it seemed really cut and dry that she was overpowering him. She raped him, and it WAS a scene of non-consentual sex, nothing unclear about it. The fact that he was also violent towards her, while being unable to stop the sex, is no different from a woman fighting back.

    Am I comfortable with the graphic depiction and the over the top violence? It squicked me big time, but not because a woman was being victimized.

  27. I think you guys have convinced me that the power dynamic is more complicated than I originally thought. I’ll bet you’re all right, and that Bill is acting somehow under Lorena’s control, which of course changes everything.

    Think we’ll find out in two weeks?

  29. Not the first to say this but definitely what I took from it was that she basically forced him to ‘MAKE LOVE to her’, he said “I will never LOVE you” and then broke her neck because, well, she deserved it.

  30. But it’s also quite clear that even though she’s older as a vampire (whatever weight that holds – sometimes it seems to matter, sometimes not so much), Bill’s got the power here.

    I don’t think this is right. We saw last season that she has such an edge over him that Bill is literally incapable of leaving a hotel room unless she chooses to let it happen. There’s every reason to think it was consensual because, if it wasn’t, then she easily could have prevented it from happening. I read it as a return to the sadomasochistic games they used to play, where she evidently willingly took on the submissive role at least some of the time. If it was intended to be read as a scene that lacked her consent, then they are discarding what was a major plot point last year.

  31. “I think part of the problem is that, even though we know at least some of their history, what we do know doesn’t seem to warrant the incredible hatred he seems to feel for her. Is that just me?? Like, okay, she taught you that you can’t love humans and she was right, or something, but REALLY, BILL?!”

    She turned him vampire when he didn’t want to.
    Forced him away from his family.
    Controlled him for a looong time (how about a century of being manipulated?).
    And attempts to kill Sookie, or make her be killed so Bill would be hers, or at the very least, not with a human.

    I think that’s reason enough for hatred. Many people have hated for much much less.

    I also don’t understand how “boring” is a bad thing. In as much as it’s supposed to represent their real life (if the supernatural existed), not some superhero show, being boring is a positive thing. It signifies stability, grounding, rationality.

    You want some yahoo, who shoots everything that moves and is a complete psychopath, because he’s interesting? Your choice. I’ll take the boring boyfriend. Interesting as employed here is also often anthetical to faithfulness. And since I’m not looking for an open relationship where both members of the couple can fuck around whoever whenever, and prefer the exclusivism, I’ll take a “cheating is not good, therefore too interesting is bad” stance.

    I think that since Bill can’t kill Lorena without serious repercussions, that’s as much as he can do. I don’t think he’s misogynist in as much as if he had a male maker (with the same history as Lorena), he would act the same and hate him.

    Jason and Sookie are attractive because they have some special heritable properties making them so. Which I won’t divulge since it’s a spoiler. But it’s in the books. You might think Jason gets as much casual sex because he’s got his game down…but his pick-up lines are way too obvious, it’s his natural magnetism (from his heritable special properties) that makes girls fawn over him.

  32. I don’t see how this could be rape against Lorena. She was clearly enthusiastically consenting! As disturbing as the whole thing was, and as weird and twisted was her reasons/method of consent, it didn’t seem ambiguous to me at all. Bill on the other hand, well, I’m going to guess that the writers are going for the maker/progeny power thing. At the very end he’s pulling at his hair like “OOOH NOOO!” It seemed clear that he was NOT happy with the whole thing. And, if it was a “hate fuck” (a concept I, admittedly, cannot comprehend), well, we already know how violent and inhuman Bill has been in the past. Remember the scene where he and Lorena murder a woman then have sex in her blood?? Bill has got some major demons and I’m excited to see them come out. I’m very very tired of the nice vampire routine.

  33. I second the idea that I don’t see Bill’s actions as woman-hating as much as Lorena-hating.

  34. Many BDSM scenarios which are consented for and who can’t, for whatever reason, be consented verbally and in a ‘without a doubt’ fashion could be construed as rape.

    My boyfriend having sex with me as I’m sleeping, which I consented to before, but not at the time it occurs (I’m sleeping, I can’t speak consciously) is not something I count as rape.

    Situations of bondage could be construed as coercion (after all, the submissive can’t move), but if it’s agreed upon up to what point it’s okay and both trust each other, I find it okay.

    Compare that with mental institutions often using restraints as punitive measures for bad behavior (however they decide what constitutes bad behavior), I consider abuse (even if no sexual contact occurs). I wouldn’t trust those therapists, I wouldn’t agree to it.

  35. I’m in agreement that it was Lorena raping Bill. Why the disgusting head-twist? I think there was a really good reason for it – after that, it would be hard for almost anybody to find that rape sexy. I for one wanted to go throw up. Which is the appropriate response to viewing a rape.

  36. I forgot to bounce something off y’all in my focus on the Bill-Lorena scene (and I guess Bill won’t be so boring this season if his story line has managed to stir up this much debate…).

    Regarding Sam. I’m betting it’s his mom who tried to steal from him, not his brother. Thoughts?

    And ugh. I enjoy the 4th of July as much as anyone, but resent it from standing between me and my consumerism of this painfully addictive show (especially this season).

  37. My thoughts on Sam’s family: They seem like they’re up to no good, like con artists. They don’t seem to see lying as bad (what with their son trying to say he never knew ‘those people’ (his own parents), as if he had something to hide). Sam has succeeded and they might want to profit from it.

    Will it show on July 4th? I’m in Canada so I don’t care about the holiday, but I wanna watch the show.

  38. It won’t show in the states on the 4th- they’re just replaying the first 3 episodes. If you get the new one in Canada, I’m super jealous.

Comments are currently closed.